Gandy at LT?

[rschepise]

How are we supposed to expect an unproven player to play one of our most important positions. I put my faith in Tom Donohoe because he has done a marvelous job thus far (Despite some unwarranted criticism). However, the thought of Mike Gandy protecting JP's blindside raises some fear. Especially, considering the fact the Bennie Anderson is unproven in pass protection. We know what to expect out of Teague, CV, MW, Moulds, Lee, WM, and the rest of our O. My point is that we need to create an environment conducive for success for our second year quaterback. In doing this we need to eliminate as many variables as possible for J.P. Bennie and Gandy create two huge varibiables in pass protection. Hopefully, a strong running game and the much touted elusivenss by J.P. Losmen will prevent defenses from exploiting us with various blitz packages. Only time will tell.

[Schobel94]

Anderson and Gandy aren't unproven, they're not rookies. We know Anderson will provide good run blocking and decent pass protection as he did in Baltimore, and if Gandy stays healthy is an adequate run blocker and adequate pass blocker, much like Jennings, who also had injury problems. There really wasn't much out there in the way of tackles in free agency, unless you want to overpay an only okay player. That being said, it's good that JP can move, and most of the running will still be behind Williams and Villarial.

[juice]

How are we supposed to expect an unproven player to play one of our most important positions. I put my faith in Tom Donohoe because he has done a marvelous job thus far (Despite some unwarranted criticism). However, the thought of Mike Gandy protecting JP's blindside raises some fear. Especially, considering the fact the Bennie Anderson is unproven in pass protection. We know what to expect out of Teague, CV, MW, Moulds, Lee, WM, and the rest of our O. My point is that we need to create an environment conducive for success for our second year quaterback. In doing this we need to eliminate as many variables as possible for J.P. Bennie and Gandy create two huge varibiables in pass protection. Hopefully, a strong running game and the much touted elusivenss by J.P. Losmen will prevent defenses from exploiting us with various blitz packages. Only time will tell.UnWarrented Critisizm? TD has been promising to address the line problems since he got rid of R. Brown.. Now he brings in LG Anderson who is a Brown type player, and Gandy who lost his position to Ruben.. and thats supposed to be the serious upgrade on the O-Line from last year? Your correct in that we are expecting an unproven QB to use his scrambling ability to avoid getting sacked by the likes of J. Taylor and J. Abraham.. This could hamper his development and result in another 0-4 start to the season thus eliminating us from playoff contention before the end of Sept.



Anderson and Gandy aren't unproven, they're not rookies. We know Anderson will provide good run blocking and decent pass protection as he did in Baltimore, and if Gandy stays healthy is an adequate run blocker and adequate pass blocker, much like Jennings, who also had injury problems. There really wasn't much out there in the way of tackles in free agency, unless you want to overpay an only okay player. That being said, it's good that JP can move, and most of the running will still be behind Williams and Villarial.Gandy is unproven in that he hasn't played the Tackle position in a couple of years and Anderson is unproven because he's never played the LG position and never has he played there on a pass efficient offense.

[Jayhawk]

John Clayton on ESPN took TD to task for not signing a LT. looks like we are looking for one in the draft next year.

[mysticsoto]

UnWarrented Critisizm? TD has been promising to address the line problems since he got rid of R. Brown.. Now he brings in LG Anderson who is a Brown type player, and Gandy who lost his position to Ruben.. and thats supposed to be the serious upgrade on the O-Line from last year? Your correct in that we are expecting an unproven QB to use his scrambling ability to avoid getting sacked by the likes of J. Taylor and J. Abraham.. This could hamper his development and result in another 0-4 start to the season thus eliminating us from playoff contention before the end of Sept.

Gandy is unproven in that he hasn't played the Tackle position in a couple of years and Anderson is unproven because he's never played the LG position and never has he played there on a pass efficient offense.
Anderson is a brown type player??? What does that mean? Anderson is a major upgrade for the running game - which we mostly employ. And passing protection is based alot on technique - something McNally excels at teaching. Even Jennings who many here treat like he's so fantastic admitted that he did learn alot from McNally.

This has been talked about ad-nasuem. As for Gandy, if he's healthy he will probably be fine.

I still wonder if they should consider moving MW to LT. If he really is in the best shape he's ever been as he said, then why not make him earn those $millions that we are paying him. Gandy would probably have a much easier time at RT...yeah, it's a chance, but you have training camp and the preseason to gel as a new rotation. I know MM will pretty much let McNally decide, so I hope he considers it...McNally is not stupid and he will do the best he can to make that line solid. I'll let him decide what is best.

[juice]

Anderson is a brown type player??? What does that mean?Brown type player means he is a natural run blocker, and as Brown wound down his career, he seemed to struggle in pass blocking.. would you not agree that Anderson is a run blocker that struggles in pass protection?

Again TD has been promising that this would be a run oriented offense since last season, but we've yet to see this transition to a run first approach.

"If Gandy is healthy.." thats a pretty big if, Gandy has seemed to stay injured over the past few seasons. "will probably be fine" isn't what TD said would happen over the past 2 off-seasons, he said that the line issues would be addressed and the level of talent would be upgraded.

Why not bring in a player that you are sure would have no problem playing the position instead of someone who might upset the entire line Chemistry from last year.. MW is just becoming comfortable at RT a switch at this point would be too much of a risk in his development, A player with the abilities to play LT, like Verba, was needed to avoid taking these personnel chances..

Gandy is a Gamble at best.. and with the LG having pass protection problems, I'd say the odds on these guys being able to gain JPLs' confidence and be successful have gone way down.

[Turf]

How are we supposed to expect an unproven player to play one of our most important positions. I put my faith in Tom Donohoe because he has done a marvelous job thus far (Despite some unwarranted criticism). However, the thought of Mike Gandy protecting JP's blindside raises some fear. Especially, considering the fact the Bennie Anderson is unproven in pass protection. We know what to expect out of Teague, CV, MW, Moulds, Lee, WM, and the rest of our O. My point is that we need to create an environment conducive for success for our second year quaterback. In doing this we need to eliminate as many variables as possible for J.P. Bennie and Gandy create two huge varibiables in pass protection. Hopefully, a strong running game and the much touted elusivenss by J.P. Losmen will prevent defenses from exploiting us with various blitz packages. Only time will tell.

:deadhorse

All these years I wanted to use this smilie, and this is perfect.

[Tatonka]

Brown type player means he is a natural run blocker, and as Brown wound down his career, he seemed to struggle in pass blocking.. would you not agree that Anderson is a run blocker that struggles in pass protection?

Again TD has been promising that this would be a run oriented offense since last season, but we've yet to see this transition to a run first approach.

"If Gandy is healthy.." thats a pretty big if, Gandy has seemed to stay injured over the past few seasons. "will probably be fine" isn't what TD said would happen over the past 2 off-seasons, he said that the line issues would be addressed and the level of talent would be upgraded.

Why not bring in a player that you are sure would have no problem playing the position instead of someone who might upset the entire line Chemistry from last year.. MW is just becoming comfortable at RT a switch at this point would be too much of a risk in his development, A player with the abilities to play LT, like Verba, was needed to avoid taking these personnel chances..

Gandy is a Gamble at best.. and with the LG having pass protection problems, I'd say the odds on these guys being able to gain JPLs' confidence and be successful have gone way down.


i actually agree with juice.

:blowup:

[gimpy]

Gandy who lost his position to Ruben.
wrong. Ruben played RG for the Bears, filling the hole left by the departure of Chris V.

[gimpy]

Brown type player means he is a natural run blocker, and as Brown wound down his career, he seemed to struggle in pass blocking.. would you not agree that Anderson is a run blocker that struggles in pass protection?
I disagree with your analogy. Brown was a solid run blocker but never dominating at the point of attack. Anderson is a mauler at the point of attack but has trouble getting down field. Brown always struggled against the bull rush. Anderson cannot be bull rushed.

Bottom line: if it was 3rd down and the game was on the line, I'd take Anderson over Brown.

[Jan Reimers]

First, Anderson was a starter at guard for the Ravens, so he is neither a gamble nor unproven. He is huge and a very good run blocker who needs help with his pass blocking. We know exactly what we are getting, and he will be a major upgrade over Smith/Tucker.

Second, Gandy started 20 games at LT and 10 at LG for the Bears over the last 3 years. Injuries curtailed his career. He is big, smart, athletic and a high effort guy. Again, he is not totally unproven but, because of the injury factor, he may be a gamble.

I think we should give the guy a chance, rather than condemning him before he ever plays a down.

You know what else? Who died and left John Clayton GM? I don't really care what that little weasel says.

[juice]

wrong. Ruben played RG for the Bears, filling the hole left by the departure of Chris V.Check your facts again Gimp, can I call you Gimp.. Ruben has never played RG even though he was listed at Vallerial's position with the Bears, he started at LG last year until he was injured and is the projected starter at LG this season.


I disagree with your analogy. Brown was a solid run blocker but never dominating at the point of attack. Anderson is a mauler at the point of attack but has trouble getting down field. Brown always struggled against the bull rush. Anderson cannot be bull rushed. Bottom line: if it was 3rd down and the game was on the line, I'd take Anderson over Brown.Brown was never dominating at the point of attack, 8 consecutive Pro Bowls and 2 consecutive 1300 yd rushing seasons by Travis Henry, an NFL backup, says that he was a dominate Run Blocker.. Unless you think his strength was his pass blocking, Gimp?


First, Anderson was a starter at guard for the Ravens, so he is neither a gamble nor unproven. He is huge and a very good run blocker who needs help with his pass blocking. We know exactly what we are getting, and he will be a major upgrade over Smith/Tucker.Second, Gandy started 20 games at LT and 10 at LG for the Bears over the last 3 years. Injuries curtailed his career. He is big, smart, athletic and a high effort guy. Again, he is not totally unproven but, because of the injury factor, he may be a gamble.I think we should give the guy a chance, rather than condemning him before he ever plays a down.You know what else? Who died and left John Clayton GM? I don't really care what that little weasel says. Correct Jan.. he was a starter but has never started at the LG position, and he was possibly the worst of the Ravens lineman last year because he struggles in pass protection.

Transition from the RG position to the LG position isn't a small task which makes Anderson an unproven quantity at his New Position

Gandy has started 20 games at LT before the Bear staff moved him to the Guard position where they felt he would be more effective, and that was 2 years ago.. We have no idea how effective Gandy can be at the LT position 2-3 years later, nor do we know if he can stay healthy.

The Bears staff felt his natural position would be Guard before they just released him last Nov.. apparently they question his health as does the Redskins who failed Gandy on a physical in the off-season.

As far as giving a guy a chance we've already done that with L. Smith/Pussillo/Tucker last year and it proved to be a failed experiment resulting in a change in QB and another year absence from the playoffs.. TD has had his chance at experimentation with the line - it's time to make some solid upgrades in the talent level on that left side.

[Tatonka]

the only reason that ruben started last season is because rex tucker got hurt.. it had nothing to do with gandy.. ruben was a back up in chicago, filling in until he got hurt himself.

[rschepise]

EDITED FOR TOS

Please attack the post, not the poster.

[mysticsoto]

Brown type player means he is a natural run blocker, and as Brown wound down his career, he seemed to struggle in pass blocking.. would you not agree that Anderson is a run blocker that struggles in pass protection?

Again TD has been promising that this would be a run oriented offense since last season, but we've yet to see this transition to a run first approach.

"If Gandy is healthy.." thats a pretty big if, Gandy has seemed to stay injured over the past few seasons. "will probably be fine" isn't what TD said would happen over the past 2 off-seasons, he said that the line issues would be addressed and the level of talent would be upgraded.

Why not bring in a player that you are sure would have no problem playing the position instead of someone who might upset the entire line Chemistry from last year.. MW is just becoming comfortable at RT a switch at this point would be too much of a risk in his development, A player with the abilities to play LT, like Verba, was needed to avoid taking these personnel chances..

Gandy is a Gamble at best.. and with the LG having pass protection problems, I'd say the odds on these guys being able to gain JPLs' confidence and be successful have gone way down.
Oh...okay. When I think of a Brown type player, I think of holds, false starts, penalties, etc. :D

TD has done his best with the line. In order to get JP, we had to do some sacrifies (which I feel will be worth it) and b'cse of it, there weren't any top linemen we could take to address LT. Gandy is certainly better than a rookie fresh out of college tackle - atleast of the calibre that was left by the time our 2nd rd pick came. Let's just face it - there just wasn't depth at good quality linemen in this draft. If we can solidify every other position but LT, we've already improved. And then next year, when we get a monster 6'9" 340 lbs left tackle (he's the top rated guy - I'm hoping we get him) then we've completed solidifying the line. But there just wasn't alot to choose from. I'm hoping that the move/restructuring of MW's contract is b'cse of Verba - then atleast we have some good competition and may the best man win. McNally will no doubt improve whoever we have, and the good thing is that most of the backups on the O-line can play several positions, so that makes our depth more solid, although young. But I trust McNally to teach well and quickly.

[HHURRICANE]

Anderson and Gandy aren't unproven, they're not rookies. We know Anderson will provide good run blocking and decent pass protection as he did in Baltimore, and if Gandy stays healthy is an adequate run blocker and adequate pass blocker, much like Jennings, who also had injury problems. There really wasn't much out there in the way of tackles in free agency, unless you want to overpay an only okay player. That being said, it's good that JP can move, and most of the running will still be behind Williams and Villarial.
I agree. I think our line is not that bad. Anderson is a great addition. Think of how motivated he will be playing on a team with some Offense. JJ was good when he was healthy, not great. Gandy is a question mark but we have time to evalaute. The line did pretty well with that statue back there and the only difference is with JJ gone. Let's give it some time.

[HHURRICANE]

As far as giving a guy a chance we've already done that with L. Smith/Pussillo/Tucker last year and it proved to be a failed experiment resulting in a change in QB and another year absence from the playoffs.. TD has had his chance at experimentation with the line - it's time to make some solid upgrades in the talent level on that left side.
You were right on most of your post. However, the reason Bledsoe got cut was not due to the OL but his own crappy play. Did you watch some of the bone headed stuff he did. The fumble for a touchdown when we were driving against the Pats. The Steelers game that sealed his fate. This guy is over. I can't wait to see him in Dallas. What hurt the Bills was JP getting hurt and Bledsoe winning games against mediocre clubs.

[juice]

You were right on most of your post. However, the reason Bledsoe got cut was not due to the OL but his own crappy play. Did you watch some of the bone headed stuff he did. The fumble for a touchdown when we were driving against the Pats. The Steelers game that sealed his fate. This guy is over. I can't wait to see him in Dallas. What hurt the Bills was JP getting hurt and Bledsoe winning games against mediocre clubs.Your right 'Cane.. it was all DBs' fault and Smith/Puscillo/Tucker played solid in games 1-4.. not to mention that Big Mike Williams came into the season in tip-top shape.

How dare Bledsoe,Henry and Moulds all get off to absolutely dismal starts with such a stellar O-Line giving such a gutty performance.. All the fault of a single player though. Even JPL getting hurt was DBs' fault, he should've taught JP how to slide on day 1 of TC.

[gimpy]

Check your facts again Gimp, can I call you Gimp.. Ruben has never played RG even though he was listed at Vallerial's position with the Bears, he started at LG last year until he was injured and is the projected starter at LG this season.

Brown was never dominating at the point of attack, 8 consecutive Pro Bowls and 2 consecutive 1300 yd rushing seasons by Travis Henry, an NFL backup, says that he was a dominate Run Blocker.. Unless you think his strength was his pass blocking, Gimp?
[/b]
"can I call you Gimp..".. No. :D:

You're right about Ruben playing LG in chicago.. I meant to say he was signed to play to RG, but, I digress.

I know all of Ruben's stats, he also played LG for 2 1000yd seasons by Thurman and 1 1000yd year for A. Smith. But the bottom line is Ruben was undersized and weak at the point of attack. Ruben was at his best pulling and trapping, using his quick feet. Your acknowledgment of Ruben's struggles in pass protection prove my point. If Ruben wasn't pulling or trapping, he spent most of the day 2 yds behind the line of scrimmage.

[HHURRICANE]

How dare Bledsoe,Henry and Moulds all get off to absolutely dismal starts with such a stellar O-Line giving such a gutty performance.. All the fault of a single player though. Even JPL getting hurt was DBs' fault, he should've taught JP how to slide on day 1 of TC.
The line did take time to gel, no doubt. However, Henry blew some key plays which if he had memorized his play book, would not have happened. Remember him blowing the handoff on 4th and 1. Also, McGahee knew how to get in the Endzone, Henry did not. Why are you such a Bledsoe homer?

[The_Philster]

The line did take time to gel, no doubt. However, Henry blew some key plays which if he had memorized his play book, would not have happened. Remember him blowing the handoff on 4th and 1. Also, McGahee knew how to get in the Endzone, Henry did not. Why are you such a Bledsoe homer?talking like he knows that the QB isn't the only player on the team isn't the mark of a Bledsoe homer...it's the mark of someone who knows more than the stat line

I should :negrep: you just because you made me defend juice :mad:

[HHURRICANE]

talking like he knows that the QB isn't the only player on the team isn't the mark of a Bledsoe homer
Juice: As far as giving a guy a chance we've already done that with L. Smith/Pussillo/Tucker last year and it proved to be a failed experiment resulting in a change in QB and another year absence from the playoffs..



Philster, I'm being objective here, did the OL cause us to cut Bledsoe? I thought we cut Bledsoe because when the game was on the line he couldn't get the job done. We didn't make the playoffs because Bledsoe played terrible in the Steelers game. ESPN quoted insiders that the coaching staff considered this the Nail in his coffin. If he wins that game he's most likely still here.

[The_Philster]

No QB wins any game in the NFL...it's a team effort...Yes, Drew stunk in that game...but so did a lot of Bills players...including the O-line

[EDS]

I thought Bledsoe was cut because he did not implement the game plan as instructed by the coaches. In other words, he did not follow directions.

[HHURRICANE]

No QB wins any game in the NFL...it's a team effort...Yes, Drew stunk in that game...but so did a lot of Bills players...including the O-line
We put a moron proof offense in for Bledsoe last year. Alot of quick short passes so he couldn't lose us the game. He still hung onto the ball way too long, and when the game was on the line he alway figured out a way to throw a key pick or fumble the snap. I agree its a team game but the OL didn't get Bledsoe cut. Did Bledsoe get hurt? Matter of fact we were in the middle of the league for sacks allowed.

[The_Philster]

The only person talking about Bledsoe being cut because of the OL is you...you're arguing about nothing...no one said they got him cut. Sounds like you just like to argue :idunno:

[juice]

Why are you such a Bledsoe homer?I'll take that from a JP Homo.. just because you have a crush on the guy, doesn't mean he'll be ready to step in as the Leader of this offense.

The problem I had with the whole DB situation is that this organization spent alot of time and money on Bledsoe's rebirth and ended up cutting a guy who won 9 games last season without recieving any compensation in return. On top of the 2 draft choices we sent to Dallas we also give them a starting calliber QB while we are betting the farm on an unproven 2nd year guy who will have to operate with the likes of Gandy and Anderson protecting his blindside.

Even JPL said he would rather have won the starting position along with the respect of his teammates instead of simply being handed the torch to run for his life with.. I don't feel like the guys we have on the depth chart at QB can come in and win 9 games.

We had DB under contract the same way we have Henry under contract, why just give away a guy who has the only experience on the team at the QB position in this system.. Even if Bledsoe loses the position fare and square you still have a capable backup who knows the system.. and if DB wins the starting position you expect him to improve on the 9 wins with a healthy WM, Evans and Moulds while you bring your QB of the future along observing a seasoned vet.

Just putting the ball in JPs' hand and asking him to learn on the fly puts unneccesary pressure on the kids shoulders. If this kid doesn't turn out to be Big Ben by week 3 the entire League will call him a bust.

I just didn't expect TD to just give away a 9 game winner and get nothing in return.. Parcells is making a living off of the Bills draftpicks, he'll max-protect Bledsoe and get 10 wins easy in the NFC and then he has the draft picks to look foward to.

[HHURRICANE]

The only person talking about Bledsoe being cut because of the OL is you...you're arguing about nothing...no one said they got him cut. Sounds like you just like to argue :idunno:
How am I arguing? Juice was the one that e-mailed that the OL was the reason that Bledsoe got cut. My only point was that it's too early to be complaining about the OL. We might end up with Verba, or make other changes we are anaware of.

[HHURRICANE]

Juice, valid argument. However, even though Bledsoe still cost us 4 million on the cap, we saved 2 million by cutting him. I doubt we were going to get a trade done that was going to make any sense to the team, hence why we still have Henry. Holcomb/JP are better fits for the type of offense Mularky is trying to install. I'm not nuts about cutting a Veteran QB in favor of a 2nd year rookie, but Bledsoe was not good last year, and it was not the OL's fault. Plus that 2 million we saved on the cap might sign Verba and stop you from whining (that was a joke). Yes, if JP looks like Eli instead of Brett it could be a long season. However, if he starts out really bad, I think Holcomb (great offseason pickup) can come in and play well. His stats are very good, I've watched him play, and he can win games.

[mysticsoto]

I think you guys are being hard on HHuricane. The Pittsburgh game was not the only game Bledsoe stunk in! And saying it is overall the O-line's fault that DB didn't play well is a cop-out. The line played much better with McNally at the helm lowering the total sacks and giving Drew more time. I think Drew stunk b'cse he was limited in the plays he could do - so much that MM had to dumb down the play calling and limit his playbook to what he felt Drew could do. The holding the ball too long came back into play as the season progressed and Drew no longer reads defenses well. People don't realize that the offense didn't actually do that good last year - but it was masked b'cse of the special teams scoring and even our defense scoring which raised our scores to make it look like we were doing better. But in truth, Bledsoe just limited our offense too much. When you are hoping that your QB doesn't "lose" games for you, it's time to get a new QB...

[frank74]

I think you guys are being hard on HHuricane. The Pittsburgh game was not the only game Bledsoe stunk in! And saying it is overall the O-line's fault that DB didn't play well is a cop-out. The line played much better with McNally at the helm lowering the total sacks and giving Drew more time. I think Drew stunk b'cse he was limited in the plays he could do - so much that MM had to dumb down the play calling and limit his playbook to what he felt Drew could do. The holding the ball too long came back into play as the season progressed and Drew no longer reads defenses well. People don't realize that the offense didn't actually do that good last year - but it was masked b'cse of the special teams scoring and even our defense scoring which raised our scores to make it look like we were doing better. But in truth, Bledsoe just limited our offense too much. When you are hoping that your QB doesn't "lose" games for you, it's time to get a new QB...
well said. Bledsoe became a nail-biter of a QB for teammates and fans to watch. Always hoping that he wouldn't screw up. Sad. I agree, the Oline played much better towards the second half of the season, but some of the play calling, as far as pass plays, was ridiculous. Bledsoe in a five step drop was suicidal and the bills should have known that, but anyway, he was the culprit, couldn't get it done anymore and i'm really stoked for J.P. and Co., and I'm praying that Gandy protects his blind side well!!!

[The_Philster]

How am I arguing? Juice was the one that e-mailed that the OL was the reason that Bledsoe got cut. My only point was that it's too early to be complaining about the OL. We might end up with Verba, or make other changes we are anaware of.:doh: I missed that the first time I read through..my bad :peace:

As far as giving a guy a chance we've already done that with L. Smith/Pussillo/Tucker last year and it proved to be a failed experiment resulting in a change in QB :crazy: Drew played himself out of Buffalo..it DOES seem like you're saying it was all the O-line's fault he got cut. :shakeno:

[colin]

drew did play himself out, i think the pitts game was the real deciding factor

our O is not as QB dependant as many in the NFL, and certainly less so than any we have had in buffalo (it is like the one they had in pitts when kordel went to the pro bowl and pats won their first SB). the bottom line is our qb is supposed to do some easier things throwing the ball very consistantly, make quick reads, and make some plays with innovation and his legs. drew just can't do that. he has other things he is/was very good at, but he didn't fit our O.

the same goes for linemen, we want to be able to jam the ball down people's throats, and have our QB hard to defend, while he gets the ball into playmakers hands. IMO we have the playmakers we need, so we are going to sign the best power blocking linemen we can, not overspend for some guy that does not really fit our team.

anyhow, this reminds me of what was once a hot topic, do coaches fit players to a system or a system to players.

i think it is clear good coaches have a system they fit players too. it is easier to replace players, and young guys can be moulded, so the coaches go with the system they can run best.

this is what the pats, eagles, colts, KC, denver and a number of other teams do to good effect, and we are doing it on O now. i think it it is a wise move and our young squad on O should really make some impact, even if we are not where we need to be on the line

[HHURRICANE]

"The Bills desperately need someone of Verba's skill level at left tackle, but they don't have the cap room to even consider him. The Texans are the most interested but are only talking in terms of one year." - Clayton, ESPN

Although I'm not sure how accurate this is, I think we had better get used to Gandy being the LT.