View Full Version : What's our game plan for Cincy?
IMO we should start Travis Brown and maybe even Burns just to see what we have. Obviously that wouldn't be the best indicator, but it would tell us how well each knows our system and give us an idea of Brown's mechanics.
I just don't see much point in starting Drew just to have him pad his stats. I think we can accomplish something with this game and we're really not playing for anything other than the Pats' draft pick which may not even be affected by a win.
Anyway, we should be able to beat the Bungals even if we start Van Pelt, Morris, CJ, and Rone. They've got to be one of the worst teams of the decade defensively speaking.
Thoughts?
I forgot about the draft pick. I guess we should start Drew to make that draft pick as bad as possible at this point. I would like to see Brown but we don't see how he is doing in practice and what not. It's possible they have already given up on him. My feeling is after two years he ought to be ready to play if he's ever going to make it. Not expecting him to go in and be great but he should be able to run the offense and use all the weapons. The draft is deep with QB's this could be an opportunity to get a future star and properly mentor him on the sidelines. I know this will be unpopular but this is a great time to draft a QB. We've got a veteran and another smart guy holding the clipboard.
Patrick76777
12-23-2002, 10:42 AM
I don’t like it at all. Many people paid good money to see an NFL game. Don’t screw them over by starting some NFL Europe QB. Plus, I don’t feel like ending the season by losing to the Bungles. This is Drew’s team. Let Drew play. Starting Brown would do very little to help his career and very little for the Bills.
Patrick76777
12-23-2002, 10:44 AM
I agree Typo, everyone wants a QB waiting in the wings. Well if you want that, then draft a good one. Use our 3rd or 4th rounder.
We should be able to beat the Bungals w/ our eyes closed!
Of course the same was true about the Lions, Texans, and Bears and they all stretched us to the final minutes!
Besides, depending upon how things shake out, the draft spot may not make any difference at all. The irony is that whatever we lose for the Pats, we also lose for ourselves in round 2 where a couple of picks may make a bigger difference in terms of getting a "spillover" player that we have our eyes on.
As to the fans, hey, if Drew plays the way he has lately, then I'd be begging for Brown, Van Pelt, or even RJ to come back and play. The risk of starting Drew is what if he stinks the joint up again. Man oh man, that would not be good nine-ways-to-Sunday!
Dozerdog
12-23-2002, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by Wys Guy
We should be able to beat the Bungals w/ our eyes closed!
! Tell that to The Saints
Yu want Travis Brown? Get a 35-0 Halftime lead. You will get travis Brown
Give the people what they want.. their Bills.
Brown had his shot in preseason
Originally posted by Dozerdog
Brown had his shot in preseason
Monday's Humorous anecdote folks!!!
:rofl:
:lol:
Dude, my sides are absolutely splitting over here....
I just don't want him hanging around taking up a roster spot and never amounting to anything. I'm not begging for Brown but he better be getting his act together after all this time. Now we are looking at keeping him there again next season?
Many people paid good money to see an NFL game.
Suckers.
Dozerdog
12-23-2002, 11:15 AM
Brown's not getting the job.
Playing him would be a waste of time.
Any thinking to the contrary is delusional....oh wait... sorry... It's wys i'm arguing with.
Sure...give Brown, Morris, Charles Johnson the snaps. Let's have a stadium with 15,000 people in it....
HenryRules
12-23-2002, 11:15 AM
Since when did the NFL become about "giving" people their shots??
You're supposed to <i>earn</i> your opportunities. Just like Henry did when he grabbed the starting job the year before last. The same way Clements forced himself into the starting lineup last year. The same way Moulds made himself more valuable to the offense than Reed a few years back. The same way Jennings earned the starting nod last year. If Travis Brown hasn't done anything in practice to merit more playing time - which he probably didn't last year, otherwise we would have used him more in preseason, than why <i>give</i> him an opportunity to show what he can do.
You want an opportunity, step the **** up and grab it.
And how does one get those opps? In practice?
Ever heard of players who don't practice well but light things up consistently on game days? There've been plenty we're told.
Frankly, I'm quite dissatisfied w/ Drew and the way he's played honestly. It's apparent that I'm not on an island in this one. I will say this, if Drew comes out next season and can't play better than average, it's time to consider whoever's on our roster behind him. He obviously can't be relied upon in the big games which his entire career has borne out much more often than not.
So if all he's gonna do is play average or average plus throughout the season, even $5.5M is way too much. We can get that for half of that easily w/o giving up the big-games on his huge errors and blunders.
The two biggest games of the year arguably, two of the 3 or 4 biggest anyway, he played his two worst games of the year by a long shot and almost cost us last week too. The luster's coming off of this trade faster than a two-bit whore leaves after earning her money. :D
Originally posted by Dozerdog
Sure...give Brown, Morris, Charles Johnson the snaps. Let's have a stadium with 15,000 people in it....
How many do you think are going to be there on Sunday even if they announce that Drew is starting?
I'll say less than 40K and likely near 30!
I would also say that it probably wouldn't be many less than that even if they announced that Alex or Travis were starting. Heck, given that it's during the holiday week I wouldn't at all be surprised if it's less than 30 anyway.
HenryRules
12-23-2002, 11:23 AM
Yes, one does get this opportunity by stepping up in practice to get your way on the field. Again, Henry managed to do it by impressing everyone with his scrimmages in preseason. Moulds spent a couple of years returning kicks before working his way into the offense. Jennings must have done it through hard work in practice ... not many teams plan on starting a 3rd round draft pick on their OL, admittedly the competition was not great, but no one else managed to step up and they had plenty of opportunities.
Personally, I have heard of players who don't practice well and play great in games. Aside from Hall of Fame quality players, I don't think any team should have room for these guys, and even then you should think long and hard before its worth the trouble. What message does it send to the rest of the players that effort and performance in practice is useless?? Is that the way to have young players develop?
Butch
12-23-2002, 11:27 AM
I say we start Drew, who cares about draft position. Play the game and if it gets out of hand in the second half then I don't have a problem with Brown playing. But play the game where you have the best chance to win, and that is with Bledsoe.
Come on, and you think perceptions and draft placement and salary have nothing to do with that?
Look at all the unearned opportunities that Leaf, Schuler had. Look at how Dilfer and Holmes were snubbed in Baltimore. Same w/ Trent Green here in Washington as I pointed out to their fans that they had just cut their best QB. Look at RJ!
The list goes on and on of people who haven't earned a thing but continue to start b/c of perceptions or to try and make the FO not look as bad.
Henry has been starting ever since he got here. He only didn't start last year b/c of an injury for a few games. Other than that he played in every game he was healthy for.
Say what you want, but Brown hasn't been given a shot at anything. Besides, I don't think there's more than a handful of QBs in this league who would put up a worse series of games over our last 8 games or so as Bledsoe has.
Let's get real about him. He's had 3 seasons w/ more than 20 TDs and 6 w/ less. That has made him one of the best? There are others that have a similar record who haven't even been considered simply b/c they aren't a media golden boy or weren't drafted #1 and had a huge collegiate track record.
With all the talent that he's had here, he has only 23 TDs and only 9 in our last 9 games, the most important games of the season. Drew is good. He's not great by any stretch. Yet, the party line, which will change after next season, is that he's one of the all-time best simply by virtue of yards and attempts apart from TDs or points or scoring drives.
I dare say, right now he's the weak link on the offense!
HenryRules
12-23-2002, 11:40 AM
Funny, but all your examples of people being given shots without earning them really seem to indicate that's a bad way to go. I don't know about you, but Leaf, Schuler, and RJ are not the sort of players I want to be producing. Holmes and Green, after struggling to get their shots seem to be doing rather well this year. Again, that's more along the lines of the production I'd like to see ... hopefully a player doesn't have to be cut to get his head on straight, but working for your opportunities, given the examples you listed, definitely seems to have the biggest payoffs.
Henry was not expected to be the starting RB from day one after we drafted him. Most people, including myself, thought that Bryson or Morris would be that guy for the better part of the first half of the season, but as is always the case with Bryson - he wasted his opportunity and Henry seized his.
As far as justifying that Bledsoe is one of the best QB's ... I don't think that's what I have to do. Bledsoe has undoubtedly proven to me, the coaching staff, the players, the front office, and most of the city, that he's definitely the best QB on the team. I can't have any opinion on Brown not having seen him practice, but judging by most interviews I've heard with players, he doesn't seem to be on their radar as having earned a shot to unseat Bledsoe.
Patrick76777
12-23-2002, 11:50 AM
Wys you’re out on left field on this one. I don’t think it’s a matter of giving a player a chance, but more of who that player was. If we had a kid that we drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round, and it was his 2nd or 3rd year in the league and he was EVEN THE BACKUP, you’d have a point. But you’re talking about a 3rd stringer. It’s not a move to make. I don’t even know why we’re arguing, because it will, NEVER happen.
Is it a question of "who's the best QB on the team?"
Or should we be more concerned about how that QB, perceived as he is, and I would challenge that as to the truth of it over the perceptions, or should we be more cocerned about whether or not he can handle the load in the big games which he has once again proven that he cannot?
I mean, I don't know about you, but I have no doubt that we'll be the best team in the AFCE next season right from the get go! Do we want to advance to the Div. Championships or the Conf. Championships only to have him throw the game for us just like he did in N.E. so many times in the playoffs and/or in the biggest games of the season to position us best in the playoffs?
B/c if all we want is the best QB out of a select and small sample, then let's trade for Kitna! He's the best QB on the Bengals. Or how about trading for Kerry Collins? He's the best QB on the Giants. Perhaps we should have simply taken Chandler as the best QB that was on Atlanta? Matthews or Ramsey? Couch, Redman, Brees, Peete, Plummer? Afterall, they're the best on their teams.
We need to look for a QB that won't stop the show when it's moving ahead full tilt as Drew just did here to round out our season and as he has so many of the seasons in N.E. If Brown and VP can't do it, then let's get some in here who can. I find it very difficult to believe however that there wasn't a QB available last year who couldn't have led us to 23 TDs in 15 games on this team w/ its vast array of weapons and w/o all of the inconsistency and game-losing errors costing us 3-4 games.
GO BILLS!!!
Not Go Drew!
All I know is that given a more consistent, and not necessarily a rocket arm, QB, that we would have made the playoffs. We've been winning in spite of Drew being on the field and not b/c of him. We've all seen the games over the last half.
HenryRules
12-23-2002, 11:55 AM
Wys, if we could bring in Rich Gannon to start on Sunday, I'd be all for it. Although, last time I checked the rules, you could only play players that were on your team. So yes, you do start the best player on your team at the position.
As to your last comment, I'm really not sure you've watched the games in the second half ... you seem to think the RB that fumbles the ball 10 times in a season should be the cornerstone of the offense.
Look, I don't want to start hammering on Drew here, b/c he will likely be our QB at least through next season. But we all have to stop talking about him as if he's anything more than what he is. We're expected to believe that just about every single one of his contributions is of the abstract and intangible variety since he hasn't put up anything on the field in the traditional senses for the most part. Certainly nothing that makes me say he's a top 10 QB even this season. The stats support me on that. He'll likely be the 8th ranked TD tosser after tonight's game and he's currently the 17th rated QB.
Why?
Cold weather and this insufficient support cast he has?
We must get out of this "Bledsoe's poop doesn't stink" mode. It's gonna cost us in the long run and quite possibly even next season just like it cost the Pats for years.
Dozer said that Brown had a fair chance to compete in the preseason. Well, if that's true, then whomever is our backup QB(s) should have a true chance of competing then next preseason. Frankly I disagree that anyone but Drew had a shot this year even if they had played better. Could you imagine the uproar had we started Brown simply b/c he had had an excellent preseason? It's laughable. Besides, not that anyone did any better w/ our 2nd/3rd teams, but Drew certainly didn't light things up going 34 of 55 for 443, 3 TDs, 2 INTs in PS.
At any rate, as a result of his play, we'll see exactly how predisposed we are towards starting him next season. In my book he hasn't earned the automatic right to start next season even though I figure it will end up being him due either to not having any viable options or this notion of looking like fools if it's not him.
I'd wager you top dollar however that no matter who's on the roster that they are not given a fair and reasonable chance to compete w/ the first team during the PS.
Funny though, I think Gannon is available after this year and I happen to think that he's worlds above Drew and has several good seasons left in him. Last year people scoffed at the notion that we try Brown or VP for this season or grab Chandler for cheap and then try for Gannon this year.
I think Gannon may leave the Raiders b/c he knows the team is headed nowhere. Especially if they fail to make the SB this year. They're aging at an incredible rate and they have no ground game that is good and consistent. I bet he would have bitten like a champ at the opportunity to play here w/ Henry and all of the talent we have around. That would have been awesome. It's still possible IMO and if we could get him I'd cut DB in a NY second!
At this rate, we'll never restructure Drew's contract after the '04 season and Gannon would play at least as well as Drew for two seasons. Meanwhile we pursue the exact same backup options that we're gonna have to pursue w/ Drew here anyway.
TD?
The nice thing about that is that we could cut Drew w/o any cap hit whatsoever. It's a freebie!
Earthquake Enyart
12-23-2002, 12:25 PM
I don't know what is more off the wall, Gannon or bringing up Chandler again. You see him knocked silly in the Bear game yesterday? He got up with his chin strap over his mouth, and wobbled around before he was taken out. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
If you are serious about Gannon, you'd be taking the same Butthead cap hit paying 2 QB's big $$. Unless you want to cut Drew. Not many teams can take the $7 mil cap hit for Drew.
You've said some weird stuff, but this may take the cake.
Dozerdog
12-23-2002, 12:26 PM
Wys-
If Drew and the strarters are struggling- wouldn't it make more sense to let them play in this game to iron out problems with the offense?
Or should any issues be carried over next season so they can try to resolve them in 2 drives per preseason game?
If you want travis Brown to start so bad, buy a Playstation, get John Madden 2003, bench all the starters and play "Coach".
Travis Brown may not even make the roster next season. If Drew was a lame duck, or had some bad nagging injuries- MAYBE you go with the backup- and that would be AVP- not Brown.
Dozerdog
12-23-2002, 12:28 PM
I'll even give ya pleated shorts and the sleeveless sweater
HenryRules
12-23-2002, 12:30 PM
Wys, have you ever watched Oakland play? Henry, the one you mention specifically does not compare to the combo of Garner and Wheatley, who are one of the best backfield combos in the league (although like the Bills its not used as often as other teams because of their great receivers), and their OL is already one of the best. At what single offensive position do the Bills next year stack up well if Price doesn't resign (as you suggest he shouldn't).
OL? Maybe in a few years
RB? Again, maybe in a few years, but Garner and Wheatley are a better combo than Henry and, uhmm, .... i dunno who else. Considering you say that we should give Henry the ball more, how often do you think Garner should be used by the Raiders?
Receiver? Rice, Brown, and Porter, versus Reed and Moulds. Who would you rather throw to considering you've already stated you don't think Moulds is a #1 receiver?
We <i>may</i> be better than the Raiders at every position in a few years, but if we drop Bledsoe after one year, do you think there's a marquee player out there who will think of signing in Buffalo long-term?
BillsMan80
12-23-2002, 04:46 PM
Umm, Wys, while I know that the Bears, Texans, and Lions aren't very good, they still are NFL teams. Heck, the Bears at least were half decent when we beat them. And the Texans beat the Giants at home, while the Giants were in a fight for the division. The Lions too are improving. They have taken teams down to the wire all year long.
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