Does any one think that Mike Williams is getting alittle over paid

[billsballerc]

This year alone we are paying Mike Williams over 5 mill and he isnt that great of a linemen give me some comments on this.

[The_Philster]

:couch:

[colin]

i understand many of the posters on this site are not numerate and issues with the salary cap can be confusing, but mike williams is just getting the back loaded part of his contract that he signed.

he was the 4th pick overall the beginning of his contract was very small, so his first couple years salary cap numbers were "too low" and his last couple years are "too high".

the thing is, high picks get big payouts, and mike is a high pick. many nfl teams have a habit of re negotiating players before then end of their long large back ended contracts. TD does not do this nearly as much as most GMs, this means he can has credibility when negotiating. players and agents know where they stand with TD, and when he asks for a guy to renegotiat his contract, i think this gives him a bit of a better chance of getting it done.

bottom line, we are not paying mike williams too much because of how much he is making this year, you have to look at the life of his contract.

so are we paying him too much over the life of his contract? frankly that is a tough one, if mike plays very well this season (and i think he will) he is definately worth the money, because it means we have a young elite tackle on our team, they are very hard to find. if he dissapoints and we sign him cheap it will be good too, but if he just does not pan out it is bust pick.

while he is not the pass blocker we'd like him to be, the team sacks have fallen since the first year, and drew is a statue so he is gonna get sacked. in mike's first year we had the best offensive year buffalo ever had, and every year mike has blocked for us we have had a 1000 yard rusher.

travis was nothing his first year, after mike signed on he started putting up big numbers.

i say mike is a great power run blocker, and needs a bit of work (but less than most think) in pass blocking. i say he kicks ass this year and justifies the 4th overall pick.

he is better than mckinny IMO, mckinny is not consistent, and cannot run block any where near as well as mike

[Michael82]

i understand many of the posters on this site are not numerate and issues with the salary cap can be confusing, but mike williams is just getting the back loaded part of his contract that he signed.

he was the 4th pick overall the beginning of his contract was very small, so his first couple years salary cap numbers were "too low" and his last couple years are "too high".

the thing is, high picks get big payouts, and mike is a high pick. many nfl teams have a habit of re negotiating players before then end of their long large back ended contracts. TD does not do this nearly as much as most GMs, this means he can has credibility when negotiating. players and agents know where they stand with TD, and when he asks for a guy to renegotiat his contract, i think this gives him a bit of a better chance of getting it done.

bottom line, we are not paying mike williams too much because of how much he is making this year, you have to look at the life of his contract.

so are we paying him too much over the life of his contract? frankly that is a tough one, if mike plays very well this season (and i think he will) he is definately worth the money, because it means we have a young elite tackle on our team, they are very hard to find. if he dissapoints and we sign him cheap it will be good too, but if he just does not pan out it is bust pick.

while he is not the pass blocker we'd like him to be, the team sacks have fallen since the first year, and drew is a statue so he is gonna get sacked. in mike's first year we had the best offensive year buffalo ever had, and every year mike has blocked for us we have had a 1000 yard rusher.

travis was nothing his first year, after mike signed on he started putting up big numbers.

i say mike is a great power run blocker, and needs a bit of work (but less than most think) in pass blocking. i say he kicks ass this year and justifies the 4th overall pick.

he is better than mckinny IMO, mckinny is not consistent, and cannot run block any where near as well as mike
I couldn't have said it any better myself. Great post man! :bf1:

:10:

:posrep:

[Jan Reimers]

Our O line is iffy enough at the moment and Williams is improving under McNally. Overpaid or not, Big Mike will be our right tackle this season. Who knows about next year?

[Mr. Cynical]

He is definitely way overpaid to play at RT.

[clumping platelets]

:movie:

[colin]

He is definitely way overpaid to play at RT.

based on what?

there are guards in their 30s in the NFL making 5+ mill a year, 6Mil for a good to pro bowl RT is FAR from overpaying.

the only question is how good is williams, if he shines or hits the pro bowl, he is well worth his pick and cost (there are almost NEVER free agent high quality tackles in the NFL, look what above average but far from great Jonas got!). In the NFL today having a multi pro bowl line is a bit of a pipe dream. the most star studded line is KC, and they don't have the money to get a WR or put up a D that can stop anyone. Getting maximum value from your O line is a BIG part of setting up your team to dominate, the Pats and Philly (even tho they have talent, they just draft guys low first round and let them walk) will drop big money all over the place, but get value on the O line and it has done them well.

[Mr. Cynical]

based on what?

there are guards in their 30s in the NFL making 5+ mill a year, 6Mil for a good to pro bowl RT is FAR from overpaying.

the only question is how good is williams, if he shines or hits the pro bowl, he is well worth his pick and cost (there are almost NEVER free agent high quality tackles in the NFL, look what above average but far from great Jonas got!). In the NFL today having a multi pro bowl line is a bit of a pipe dream. the most star studded line is KC, and they don't have the money to get a WR or put up a D that can stop anyone. Getting maximum value from your O line is a BIG part of setting up your team to dominate, the Pats and Philly (even tho they have talent, they just draft guys low first round and let them walk) will drop big money all over the place, but get value on the O line and it has done them well.Can you name a righty-QB team other than the Bills that are paying millions more for their RT than their LT? Orlando Pace, arguably one of the best LTs in the league, is making over a million less than MW. And there is no question of the higher value of an LT over an RT on a righty-QB team.

If MW were playing LT at his contract numbers, I'd be fine with it. But as an RT getting that much it detracts from the amount of cash available for the oline. There is only so much money in the pot and if he is taking the lion's share of it, he should be playing the key position on the line IMO....LT.

[Historian]

the thing is, high picks get big payouts, and mike is a high pick.

True enough.

And if you don't want to pay...you become the Bengals.

Simple as that.

[colin]

Can you name a righty-QB team other than the Bills that are paying millions more for their RT than their LT? Orlando Pace, arguably one of the best LTs in the league, is making over a million less than MW. And there is no question of the higher value of an LT over an RT on a righty-QB team.

If MW were playing LT at his contract numbers, I'd be fine with it. But as an RT getting that much it detracts from the amount of cash available for the oline. There is only so much money in the pot and if he is taking the lion's share of it, he should be playing the key position on the line IMO....LT.

seriously, i posted this about 5 inches above this post.

MIKE WILLIAMS IS GETTING ABOUT 6MIL (TOUCH LESS) PER OVER 6 YEARS, HE JUST HAD A BACK LOADED CONTRACT. HE IS NOT MAKING 9 MILL A YEAR, NOR WAS HE MAKING UNDER A MILL HIS FIRST YEAR.

so no, he is not being paid 1 mill less than pace, he is paid less than 1 mill more than wahle and other good but not great guards.

[Philagape]

Even if he is, what's the solution?

-- Take a pay cut (like that's gonna happen)
-- Cut him (no way)
-- Move him to LT. That would be counterproductive; players should play where they're most effective regardless of salary, or else the team suffers. Given that he's a better run blocker than pass blocker, I don't want him at LT. A good RT earns his salary more than a shaky LT.

All this talk is going nowhere. Every team has overpaid players.

[Mr. Cynical]

seriously, i posted this about 5 inches above this post.

MIKE WILLIAMS IS GETTING ABOUT 6MIL (TOUCH LESS) PER OVER 6 YEARS, HE JUST HAD A BACK LOADED CONTRACT. HE IS NOT MAKING 9 MILL A YEAR, NOR WAS HE MAKING UNDER A MILL HIS FIRST YEAR.

so no, he is not being paid 1 mill less than pace, he is paid less than 1 mill more than wahle and other good but not great guards.My question still stands - can you name a righty-QB team that pays it's RT more than it's LT? Or another one - name another top 5 OL pick that plays RT (on a righty-QB team)? The bottom line is that IMO it was a mistake to draft a #4 to play RT. It's great if he plays well, but it's just not smart to draft and pay that high for an RT. I don't know any other team with a righty-QB that has done that successfully. LT is at least twice as important to the line than an RT.

Also, I don't know how Pace's contract is structured over time, so MW still might be getting more than him. I'm just going by the numbers I've seen.

I have a feeling if we don't get the LT spot set for the future, MW will be gone. He's too expensive for an RT and we need to shift that money to LT IMO.

[mysticsoto]

My question still stands - can you name a righty-QB team that pays it's RT more than it's LT? Or another one - name another top 5 OL pick that plays RT (on a righty-QB team)? The bottom line is that IMO it was a mistake to draft a #4 to play RT. It's great if he plays well, but it's just not smart to draft and pay that high for an RT. I don't know any other team with a righty-QB that has done that successfully. LT is at least twice as important to the line than an RT.

Also, I don't know how Pace's contract is structured over time, so MW still might be getting more than him. I'm just going by the numbers I've seen.

I have a feeling if we don't get the LT spot set for the future, MW will be gone. He's too expensive for an RT and we need to shift that money to LT IMO.
Are you kidding me? If MW performs well at RT and between him and CV they cause WM to be in the top 10 RBs this year for yardage - there is no way he is gone - regardless of how overpaid he is. A FB or TE will end up helping Gandy block on the left side. Believe it or not, we did the same with JJ...

We will get a LT in next year's draft. I think there are like atleast 10 OTs that are like 6'5" and 300+ lbs or taller/heavier. Physically, quite a few will have the physical requirements for LT - how quickly will they be ready to start is something for the scouts to determine this year. I doubt we will draft a 1st rd OT, but more likely a 2nd rd draft - which should still allow us to get a decent one. And it becomes even better if we could have 2 2nd round picks from a TH trade. :D

MW may be overpaid, but if he's opening up holes for WM, he will remain where he is. We're a power running team and we need linemen that can open holes. When his contract is up, however, then a pay cut can be negotiated via an extension.

But trying to negotiate a pay cut now would be like TD doing the reverse of what TO is doing - and that ain't cool!

[The_Philster]

My question still stands - can you name a righty-QB team that pays it's RT more than it's LT? Or another one - name another top 5 OL pick that plays RT (on a righty-QB team)? The bottom line is that IMO it was a mistake to draft a #4 to play RT. It's great if he plays well, but it's just not smart to draft and pay that high for an RT. I don't know any other team with a righty-QB that has done that successfully. LT is at least twice as important to the line than an RT.

Also, I don't know how Pace's contract is structured over time, so MW still might be getting more than him. I'm just going by the numbers I've seen.

I have a feeling if we don't get the LT spot set for the future, MW will be gone. He's too expensive for an RT and we need to shift that money to LT IMO.

:deadhorse and who would you have drafted now that you have hindsight to help you?

[HHURRICANE]

I couldn't have said it any better myself. Great post man! :bf1:

:10:

:posrep:
I agree!!!

[Mr. Cynical]

:deadhorse and who would you have drafted now that you have hindsight to help you?
That's not my point. I'm not second guessing the draft choice. My point is that we currently have an overpaid RT on the roster. The question is what should be done to rectify that situation.

[The_Philster]

The bottom line is that IMO it was a mistake to draft a #4 to play RT.

[Mr. Cynical]

"The bottom line is that IMO it was a mistake to draft a #4 to play RT."

Did I say it was a mistake to draft MW? No. A mistake to play him at RT for 4 years and pay him LT money? Yes.

[mysticsoto]

"The bottom line is that IMO it was a mistake to draft a #4 to play RT."

Did I say it was a mistake to draft MW? No. A mistake to play him at RT for 4 years and pay him LT money? Yes.
So...are you saying you would have moved him to LT before now? Despite JJ having played better than him? Would you have moved him to LT simply b'cse he was getting paid like an LT, without regard to who was the better protector?

[Pride]

No, i think he is saying that unless he can develop into a starting LT, he should get a cut in pay.

Just remember though... to ask for this is the same as demanding that management give guys who perform above their expected paygrade more money. McGee?

[mysticsoto]

No, i think he is saying that unless he can develop into a starting LT, he should get a cut in pay.

Just remember though... to ask for this is the same as demanding that management give guys who perform above their expected paygrade more money. McGee?
The problem with this is that we are then supporting for Mgmt to do what TO is doing to his team??? A contract is a contract and you have to live by it, regardless.

I'm still of the mentality that MW should move to LT (or atleast give it a try) and see how it pans out. Gandy and even Peters would probably have an easier time at RT...but I'll trust McNally in whatever he decides to do.

[Pride]

I fully agree that a contract should be played out... but it has to be agreed by both parties.

You cant expect a player to take a pay cut based on production, if you cant expect a player to want more money of he exceeds his expected level of production.

The only way to avoid this is to either re-work a deal with him where both sides are happy, or to cut him loose and avoid paying the salary (obviously I know there are penalties to cutting him loose)

[clumping platelets]

Leave MW at RT

People need to quit griping about the contract

[Mr. Cynical]

No, i think he is saying that unless he can develop into a starting LT, he should get a cut in pay. Bingo. And from the looks of things, he hasn't been able to develop into a starting LT.


The problem with this is that we are then supporting for Mgmt to do what TO is doing to his team??? A contract is a contract and you have to live by it, regardless.I disagree. According to this, if a player puts on 100 lbs, can only play 1 down per series and is severely underperfomring (this is not about MW...just using this as an example) this is saying he should be able to play out his contract just because it is a contract.

When a player signs a contract, he is expected to play at a certain level. If he doesn't meet that level, he is in effect breaching that contract and should be reprimanded, traded or released. Conversely, if a player exceeds contract expectations, then his agent should have had verbiage put into that contract to reward him. If he didn't, it's the agent's fault. I just dont' see this as a TO comparison.

Now, if TD feels that MW is playing well enough at RT to justify the #4 money, then my beef is with TD. No RT is worth what he is getting IMO.


I'm still of the mentality that MW should move to LT (or atleast give it a try) and see how it pans out. Gandy and even Peters would probably have an easier time at RT...but I'll trust McNally in whatever he decides to do.I would like to see him at LT as well but apparently he can't cut it or he would already be there. I'm sure McNally and TD have discussed this at length. MW is a very good RT and run blocker but it appears that he is not able to pass block well enough to play LT or he'd be there by now.

[Pride]

Is it better to have a road grader at RT? or a Pass blocker at LT?

We have a mobile QB, and an awesome RB... perhaps he will earn his money on the right side if Willis earns a rushing title.

I dont think that JP's back side is nearly as vulnerable as DB's was. JP will be rolling out and moving around ALOT more than DB did.

[Mr. Cynical]

Is it better to have a road grader at RT? or a Pass blocker at LT?

We have a mobile QB, and an awesome RB... perhaps he will earn his money on the right side if Willis earns a rushing title.

I dont think that JP's back side is nearly as vulnerable as DB's was. JP will be rolling out and moving around ALOT more than DB did.Good points. The only thing is that while JP is mobile he is also inexperienced. So he will still need time to read the defenses to make the decisions. If he is constantly being chased he could get rattled and make bad decisions. So I would still put a pass blocker at LT over a road grader at RT.

However, JP might surprise us and be a quick learner, and if he can make the reads while rolling out, the lack of a stud LT won't hurt as much. It's just that I still would rather have MWs money going to LT...