Here's something positive!

[WG]

"Although the Bills have given up no fewer than two sacks in each game, the offensive line has done a fine job this season and certainly has become a focal point for an optimistic future. Rookie ORT Mike Williams, second-year ORG Marques Sullivan and second-year OLT Jonas Jennings have all "steadily progressed," according to Bills OL coach Ronnie Vinklarek. "Their communication has improved, their cohesiveness has improved and their understanding of the game has improved," Vinklarek told PFW. "All those sound like little clichés, but they’re so vital, because you can see things early in the year that happened to them that don’t happen now." Veteran newcomers Trey Teague, who switched to center, and Marcus Price, who filled in at both OT spots for a few games while Jennings and Williams were injured, garnered praise from Vinklarek for their poise, knowledge and football savvy. "I just think the attention to detail has been unbelievable," Vinklarek said. "The learning curve has been progressive; it’s been good. The enthusiasm has been tremendous. I think the athleticism is just overall better." "

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL/AFC/AFC+East/Buffalo/default.htm

I also think the OL really stepped up this year and look forward to it improving even further next!

[shelby]

AMEN BROTHA!!!
:biggrin:

[RedEyE]

I agree with that article completely. They could still stand to pick up a little help next season. IMO, the current line is filled with great run blockers and the Bills could benefit from some more pass blocking skills. ~ Either that or Gilbride could start running the ball more. :crazed:

[THATHURMANATOR]

I like our young line and I think they will only get better!!!

[Earthquake Enyart]

Originally posted by RedEyE
I agree with that article completely. They could still stand to pick up a little help next season. IMO, the currently line is filled with great run blockers and the Bills OL could benefit from some more pass blocking skills. ~ Either that or Gilbride could start running the ball more. :crazed:

You hit the nail right on the head.:hitself:

[WG]

Yeah, while it doesn't come right out and say it, pass blocking must have gotten far worse during the season and it must only be the run blocking the Vinklarek is talking about...

It's implied!

LOL

[Earthquake Enyart]

All the sacks are Drew's fault. That's what is being implied.

[WG]

Oh no EE, none of them are his fault! We all know that through the indoctrination that we all received as Bledsoe Bills fans.

They're all the fault of the improving OL don't ya know. Especially most of the key ones.

[justasportsfan]

I still say all of Drew's sacks are Rob's fault!!!!

[WG]

Well that's a given...

;)

[justasportsfan]

wys, Rob is starting this weekend, do you have your jersey for that game? :D

[WG]

I've got my Rob Johnson bib and knife, fork and spoon set!

Oh yeah, and my Rob Johnson first aid kit that EE sent me for Christmas! That's in case I get a boo-boo by running into the wall while trying to get into the kitchen to check on my wings!

[justasportsfan]

Funny thing is, Brad Johnson is out and watch Rob light up the scoredboard against the bears. Come playoff , they will opt to use Rob instead of Brad and then they will lose. Can anyone say deja vu'?

[TypicalBill]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
Funny thing is, Brad Johnson is out and watch Rob light up the scoredboard against the bears. Come playoff , they will opt to use Rob instead of Brad and then they will lose. Can anyone say deja vu'?

i just heard about it on ESPN. ESPN has that 4th down show in Sportcenter where John Clayton and the other guy discuss topics and each would have a different opinion. On rob johnson, for the first time, the two agreed that he would lose the game for the team if he starts, they said that he has no pocket presence and that if he starts in the playoffs, they would exit after the first game :)

[clumping platelets]

Rob Johnson won the playoff game at Tennessee...........it was the special teams that lost it!



:ontome:

[Don Cherry]

Rob lover

[RedEyE]

I'm most definitly not a Rob lover, but here is an interesting fact:

—QB Drew Bledsoe has been sacked 52 times this year with one game to play, six more times than Alex Van Pelt and Rob Johnson were taken down all last season.

[shelby]

:eek:

[THATHURMANATOR]

Wow...

[RedEyE]

Yeah, I didn't believe it either but I checked the stats. Last season RJ was sacked 31x in 8 games and AVP was sacked 14x in 12 (8 that he started). Looks like the someone on the Buffalo coaching staff has some explaining to do. Defense got worse (overall) this season and offensive pass protection looked like crap as well.

[shelby]

Loooossseeee.....ju got some splainin to do!!
:eek:

[helmetguy]

Red, you said RJ was sacked 31 times in 8 games last year? Project that out over a whole season and you get 62 sacks. OH! I forgot! RJ doesn't last whole GAMES, let alone seasons!

[shelby]

:lol: true, dat!;)

[mybills]

Originally posted by helmetguy
Red, you said RJ was sacked 31 times in 8 games last year? Project that out over a whole season and you get 62 sacks. OH! I forgot! RJ doesn't last whole GAMES, let alone seasons!

No matter how you slice, dice, or project it, it's still 16 games.
The only difference is 2 QB's vs 1 QB.
Drew's had 15 games already, he's leading. :rolleyes:
Must we mention the oline is better now, than then?
But you're right on the money about RJ not lasting!:peace:

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by helmetguy
Red, you said RJ was sacked 31 times in 8 games last year? Project that out over a whole season and you get 62 sacks. OH! I forgot! RJ doesn't last whole GAMES, let alone seasons!

Once again, I am not a Rob Johnson advocate, but don't you find it interesting that Bledsoe has been sacked more times this season then RJ and AVP combined last. Personally, I'm astonished. The OL has put up a front that they have improved when in reality they declined in performance. If the stat shows anything it shows how much work the Bills still have to do. Had the coaching staff been paying closer attention, they may have tried to run the ball just a little more then they were.

[Typ0]

I've been waiting for someone to bring this up about the sacks and I can't believe we went the whole season without this being an issue. Now I see people talking about the strides made on the oline. I didn't see any strides. Drew only occassionally holds the ball too long and takes a sack. The rest of the time defenders were on him before he could get set. People have really underestimated the impact of Henry's yards after contact. All those yards he fought tooth and nail for are what made the oline look like big strides were made. On the whole, I would have to say the oline was only marginally better than last season and perhaps equal or a bit worse than the season before that.

Then there is the talk about how Teague and Williams are more experience now so they will be better next season. Well it is the end of the season and they really stunk up the joint last weekend. Perhaps this line is close but there needs to be a change if we are to be dominant at the line of scrimmage and as far as I am concerned that dominance is key to winning football games. If our oline was so improved we would have been able to put teams away once we got a lead. I don't see it as being all Gilbrides fault (but a lot of it is).

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by Typ0
I've been waiting for someone to bring this up about the sacks and I can't believe we went the whole season without this being an issue. Now I see people talking about the strides made on the oline. I didn't see any strides. Drew only occassionally holds the ball too long and takes a sack. The rest of the time defenders were on him before he could get set. People have really underestimated the impact of Henry's yards after contact. All those yards he fought tooth and nail for are what made the oline look like big strides were made. On the whole, I would have to say the oline was only marginally better than last season and perhaps equal or a bit worse than the season before that.

Then there is the talk about how Teague and Williams are more experience now so they will be better next season. Well it is the end of the season and they really stunk up the joint last weekend. Perhaps this line is close but there needs to be a change if we are to be dominant at the line of scrimmage and as far as I am concerned that dominance is key to winning football games. If our oline was so improved we would have been able to put teams away once we got a lead. I don't see it as being all Gilbrides fault (but a lot of it is).

Right on TypO. The OL has been putting up a facade on how well they played this season. Granted the line can certainly block in running situations, but how is it that their pass blocking is piss poor. The first thing that comes to mind is the blitz. Bledsoe being the type of QB that he is cannot scrammble out of the pocket. Opposing teams know this and have exposed it. Therefore, Drew ends up on his back on avrg. 4 x a game. FREAKIN' TERRIBLE. The damn line cannot pick up the blitz.

I'd like to see the Bills get more pass protection in the off season, or at least drastically hone up on their skills. DB is getting pummeled. I mainly blame Gilbride because he should have recognized these patterns and adapted to them. Instead, you still see Bledsoe passing on 1st downs, 3 and short situations, and considerably too often in the red zone. If Henry isn't enough (which I beleive that he is more then capabale) utilize Larry Centers and Phillip Crosby. These guys get paid to open holes now let them earn their dough.

[Dozerdog]

Now I'm not advocating getting your QB pummeled 60 times in a season. But there is a MASSIVE difference between RJ and Drew. Drew will hang on to the ball forever waiting to connect on the big play. It paid off more often than not. If he averages 1 sack per quarter, so be it.

RJ would eat the ball and fall on the ground in the fetal position. More often than not, he would NOT connect on the big play. If you take the sacks but still move the ball, then the sacks really aren't killing the offense. If the sacks are coming on 2nd and long, 3rd and long and are drive killers,then you can make it a bigger issue.

[Typ0]

Definately there was too much passing. It's hard to thwart a pass rush when you pass every down or in predictable patterns. All the throwing in the red zone as the season wore on still baffles me. Early in the year it was Henry's rushing that helped us score in the red zone. I don't think Gilbride liked that so he stopped giving Henry shots down there. Hence we were unable to score in the red zone in the later half of the season. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. Couple that with how much more difficult it is to pass down there because there is less field I have to conclude that Gilbride is an idiot. The only respectable counter arguement is he feared the fumble which actually is quite reasonable. Rushing is supposed to be more conservative but when the RB fumbles at a higher rate than the QB throws INT's all the rules are out the window I guess.

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Now I'm not advocating getting your QB pummeled 60 times in a season. But there is a MASSIVE difference between RJ and Drew. Drew will hang on to the ball forever waiting to connect on the big play. It paid off more often than not. If he averages 1 sack per quarter, so be it.

RJ would eat the ball and fall on the ground in the fetal position. More often than not, he would NOT connect on the big play. If you take the sacks but still move the ball, then the sacks really aren't killing the offense. If the sacks are coming on 2nd and long, 3rd and long and are drive killers,then you can make it a bigger issue.

Agreed :up:

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by Typ0
Definately there was too much passing. It's hard to thwart a pass rush when you pass every down or in predictable patterns. All the throwing in the red zone as the season wore on still baffles me. Early in the year it was Henry's rushing that helped us score in the red zone. I don't think Gilbride liked that so he stopped giving Henry shots down there. Hence we were unable to score in the red zone in the later half of the season. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. Couple that with how much more difficult it is to pass down there because there is less field I have to conclude that Gilbride is an idiot. The only respectable counter arguement is he feared the fumble which actually is quite reasonable. Rushing is supposed to be more conservative but when the RB fumbles at a higher rate than the QB throws INT's all the rules are out the window I guess.

Help me out - Aren't cold weather teams typically suppose to be running the ball more in December :scratch:. Gilbride continually has Drew taking chances in the air. Also, I think Henry has cured his early season fumblitis mistakes very nicely(crossing fingers).

[Typ0]

I know what you are saying Dozer but Drew took a lot of sacks that hurt us. Just last week he probably cost us a field goal by taking a sack. He should have thrown more balls away. He only throws the ball away when they don't sack him and he's rolling towards out of bounds. He needs a little more time to make all his reads and then he needs to get rid of the ball. There's no excuse for our receivers not being open anyway...at least not this season. He should be able to deliver the ball and if not bail. The situation was just about the same with Rob except that Drew is tough as nails and Rob is tough as an egg shell getting hit with a hammer. If we don't do something about this situation we will probably be decreasing Bledsoe's playing lifetime by one year for every two years he plays here. One way to get out of a contract is to make the player retire I guess.

[Typ0]

Yeah I meant to make that point RedEYE but I forgot...LOL. The weather really did wreak havoc on our all out passing attack you would think we would go more to the run as the season went on...instead we went into poor pass protection and interception mode.

Hasn't Henry fumbled in each of the last three or four games? Is that cured?

[timfromjersey]

I'd like to make a few points about this thread.

First off, the fact that Bledsoe has taken more sacks this year than last year's qb tandem, needs to be put into context. You do this by pairing it with the stats on how many more pass plays were called this year compared with last year. With Gilbride as OC, it sure seemed like they called a lot more pass play than last year. Is my impression of this incorrect? Does any one have that stat? Obviously, more passing plays means more opportunities to give up sacks, hence, possibly, the increase over last year.

Second, clearly Henry is having a very succesful year running the ball, even late in the season. You're gonna tell the line has absolutely nothing to do with that.

It sounds like some of you are implying that the line still stinks and changes are needed. But if you look throughout NFL history, the best lines are the one that play together for many years. The Bill's off. line will become a better more cohesive unit if they stay together. That is a fact. History doesn't lie.

So I should believe you guys and not the word of a professional coach on the state of the Bill's off. line?

One more question? How come posts that discuss Rob Johnson don't get immediately deleted or moved like posts about his nemesis, the short guy in San Diego. I'm sick of hearing Johnson name being brought up, since he is no longer with the team. I find this site's lack of consistency in how they treat posts about ex-Bill's qbs very troubling.

[mybills]

Originally posted by Typ0
He only throws the ball away when they don't sack him and he's rolling towards out of bounds.

He needs a little more time to make all his reads and then he needs to get rid of the ball.

There's no excuse for our receivers not being open anyway...at least not this season.

He should be able to deliver the ball and if not bail.

True on the 1st part.
2nd part..He has plenty of time usually, that's if Teague isn't snapping it at his shins or over his head.
3rd part..It depends on who's defense they're playing against.
4th part..that would be easier if he weren't so blind.


Originally posted by timfromjersey


First off, it sure seemed like they called a lot more pass play than last year. Is my impression of this incorrect? Obviously, more passing plays means more opportunities to give up sacks, hence, possibly, the increase over last year.

Second, clearly Henry is having a very succesful year running the ball, even late in the season. You're gonna tell the line has absolutely nothing to do with that.



I'm confused...if they're calling more passing plays, then how is Henry having such a good year? Are you counting (as pass plays) all the screens & dumps to him?
Second, Henry hasn't relied on the line for much of those yards. He's had to go wide to gain, instead of up the middle like he should be able to. They don't open enough holes for him IMO.

[Typ0]

Tim that's an interesting question about the sacks in relation to drop backs. I'd be interested to see the statistics. However, I would suspect the pass to run ratio is very similar this year to last. We were playing from behind all year last year and in the west coast offense remember. My criticism of our passing is twofold. First, too much reliance on the big play that just won't render the same results in bad weather as it will in good. Second, too many consecutive passes in the red zone late in the year. If Gilbride wants to run a heavily passing offense I have no problem with that as long as the chains are moving, we have the tools to do it and we are scoring TDs. We definately have assembled the tools. But why so many tri incompletions leading to a punt or field goal attempt? Especially when Henry is crushing people running the ball.

I also believe Henry is the one that made Henry look good. He was always meeting contact behind or at the line of scrimmage. IMHO we really got tooled at the LOS all season. If we are able to win this battle more consistently imagine what Henry would be able to do? I will trust the word of the coaches too. We'll see if any changes are made in the offseason.

Finally, this post really isn't about Rob Johnson it's about the performance of our QB position. Rob took a lot of snaps last season for the Bills. If it was a post about Rob Johnson I would move it out of the Bills forum too because Rob Johnson plays for the Bucs...unless it was something about the Bills.

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by timfromjersey
I'd like to make a few points about this thread.

First off, the fact that Bledsoe has taken more sacks this year than last year's qb tandem, needs to be put into context. You do this by pairing it with the stats on how many more pass plays were called this year compared with last year. With Gilbride as OC, it sure seemed like they called a lot more pass play than last year. Is my impression of this incorrect? Does any one have that stat? Obviously, more passing plays means more opportunities to give up sacks, hence, possibly, the increase over last year.
Excellent Q Tim, and yes your instincts are accurate. Also this brings up another interesting stat. PASSING: Last season Buffalo made 523 pass attempts between the two starters, and this season with one game remaining, Bledsoe has already attempted 579 pass plays. I imagine that Bledsoe will break the 600 mark after tomorrows game. RUSHING: Last season the Bills made 406 run attempts for 1686 yards at an avrg. of 4.2 yards a carry. This season Buffalo has made 350 attempts (Henry 295) for 1,497 yards at an avrg. of 4.3 yards a carry.
Obviously Henry is a great back, however, seeing the stats above, the Bills did an OK job running the ball last year. Really all it tells me is that the line is the same as last season and that Drew and Henry are better play makers, which is why the Bills have 4 more wins this season. IMO, Gilbride has not really adjusted his offensive scheme all season and that's not good. It's OK to use the theory keep using it until it's beaten, but that doesn't seem to apply to a team that can't find a winning streak. Gilbrides pass to run ratio is nearly 2:1.


Second, clearly Henry is having a very succesful year running the ball, even late in the season. You're gonna tell the line has absolutely nothing to do with that.

It sounds like some of you are implying that the line still stinks and changes are needed. But if you look throughout NFL history, the best lines are the one that play together for many years. The Bill's off. line will become a better more cohesive unit if they stay together. That is a fact. History doesn't lie.

The line isn't great. While the seem to be able to open holes without problems, the pass protection is just as bad as last year. You are correct, the line will get better with time it just would have been nice if the protection was there this season while PPrice was still a Bill. I think the Bills could have done some pretty impressive things had Bledsoe had a little more protection. Bringing in another vet lineman isn't a bad idea. Jonas continues to show signs of being injury prone and even though Teague has been doing well, he'd be better in the back-up tackle slot. I'd love to see the Bills bring in a true center.


So I should believe you guys and not the word of a professional coach on the state of the Bill's off. line?

Yes. J/K. Beleive whatever you want to beleive. It's fun to have a place to voice your greivances. Were all just a bunch of armchair QBs.;)


One more question? How come posts that discuss Rob Johnson don't get immediately deleted or moved like posts about his nemesis, the short guy in San Diego. I'm sick of hearing Johnson name being brought up, since he is no longer with the team. I find this site's lack of consistency in how they treat posts about ex-Bill's qbs very troubling.
I like to use past players to compare and see if there has been improvement from previous years.

[colin]

Our line is very good at run blocking, and not so great at pass blocking. They have ability, but lack consistancy, which is crucial.

If we exchange Mike and Jonas, and perhaps upgrade at center or RG, we should be a much better pass blocking team next year.

4 of 5 olinemen were new to their position in the NFL.

[Cntrygal]

Originally posted by timfromjersey
One more question? How come posts that discuss Rob Johnson don't get immediately deleted or moved like posts about his nemesis, the short guy in San Diego. I'm sick of hearing Johnson name being brought up, since he is no longer with the team. I find this site's lack of consistency in how they treat posts about ex-Bill's qbs very troubling.

AS far as I know.... no threads regarding Flutie, RJ, or other nfl player has been deleted at this site. Some have been moved to the nfl/smack forum (either due to smack or we weren't playing that particular team that week). Redirects are left with all threads that get moved.

If you have a particular thread in mind... pm me and I'll see if I can't find an answer for ya. :)

[Typ0]

Well said Cntry. I don't remember threads getting deleted like that either. We're not really about that here.

[The_Philster]

I can't think of any threads getting deleted here

[timfromjersey]

a few responses.

mybill, don't be confused. If Henry is rushing well, that means the Bills could be sustaining longer offensive drives, whether they score or not. I'm betting that the Bills have had more total offensive plays on the year because of Henry, and naturally some of the increase in total plays includes passing plays. Also yes Henry has bounced out better this year when there was no hole, but from what I've seen this year, he's had many more 4, 5 and 6 yard gainers thru the interior. Last year he seemed to consistantly get 2 and 3 yards only, mostly through his powerful legs, not from holes being opened up or from henry hitting the right hole. I think his instincts have improved markedly. But so has interior blocking.

typo, I'm glad you mentioned the WCO. It is germane. The WCO is short passing. Gibrides offense is more vertical, more downfield. Bledsoe has to hold on to the ball longer, which will increase his risk to sacks. I thought last year Van Pelt did a pretty good job in getting the ball away quickly on the short routes, hence his low sack numbers. Imagine how many more sacks Johnson would have gotten if he played in this years offense. I also think Henry got hit at or behind the LOS a lot last year too. He's just playing all around better this year, fumbles not-withstanding.

Red eye, I think that Johnson's scrambling inflated the yards per carry last year just a little. I would like to see the ypc avg. after subtracting Johnson's rushing stats. Probably would bring last year's ypc avg. down to 3.9 or 4.0. Since very little of this year's rushing numbers were from the qb, I would say the substantial increase of .3 or .4 yards per carry average is because of improvement with Henry and O-line.

[timfromjersey]

cntry gal,

during the week after the San Diego - Bills, I replied to a post about Flutie's appearance in the game, defending Flutie some. I saw my reply succesfully added to the string. When I posted another reply to the thread, my earlier reply had disappeared. I also noticed someone's reply to my defense of Flutie had also disappeared. Was it a glitch? I'm not saying threads are deleted, but possibly replies to a thread.

[Typ0]

If someone deletes something they are supposed to write to you and tell you why. I don't really know what happened in your situation. If it happens again bring it to our attention so we can address it.

[mybills]

Tim,
Actually, there was trouble with the site around that time. Maybe Cgal can confirm that?
also..
IMO, Drew has plenty of time to throw in most situations. If he could learn to scope the field better, he'd see other receivers or even Henry that are wide open. But he doesn't. He always goes with his initial intended, and it's gonna bite him in the ass every time!

[Doc]

The O-line improved in run blocking but declined in pass-blocking, mostly IMHO because they have 4 guys who are new starters at their current positions and also because 3 of those 4 are very young and inexperienced players. Add to that Williams hitting the rookie wall a few weeks ago and Jennings playing hurt (he should NOT have been starting last weekend!) for many games and you get Bledsoe being sacked 51 times. Oh and I'm not too impressed with Vinklarek and it appears neither are the O-linemen. I hope they replace him.

As for RJ holding onto the ball too long, he did that for the same reasons Bledsoe does, i.e. looking for something when nothing might be there. Both can make the big play, but RJ isn't durable. And as for Bledsoe's sack on the play just before Hollis missed a 33-yarder, sure he took it but he had no option but to eat the football, and Hollis should have made the kick, seeing as Green Bay's kicker made the same 33-yarder the quarter earlier, when he would have faced the same conditions.

[Cntrygal]

Originally posted by timfromjersey
cntry gal,

during the week after the San Diego - Bills, I replied to a post about Flutie's appearance in the game, defending Flutie some. I saw my reply succesfully added to the string. When I posted another reply to the thread, my earlier reply had disappeared. I also noticed someone's reply to my defense of Flutie had also disappeared. Was it a glitch? I'm not saying threads are deleted, but possibly replies to a thread.

It was a glitch. Server upgrades were being done in the middle of December, so for 3 or 4 days posts and sometimes entire threads went into cyber space. If you notice anything like that again.. please contact one of us ASAP. I know I lost alot of news updates during upgrades - while working on paperweight that was doubling for a computer. Sorry for the confusion!

posting times (http://www.billsfanzone.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7150)



Originally posted by Doc
As for RJ holding onto the ball too long, he did that for the same reasons Bledsoe does, i.e. looking for something when nothing might be there. Both can make the big play, but RJ isn't durable. And as for Bledsoe's sack on the play just before Hollis missed a 33-yarder, sure he took it but he had no option but to eat the football, and Hollis should have made the kick, seeing as Green Bay's kicker made the same 33-yarder the quarter earlier, when he would have faced the same conditions.

I got quite a chuckle out of a lineman saying that hitting Bledsoe was like hitting another lineman. (Chicago I think) I agree about Hollis, I couldn't believe he missed!!! (btw.. welcome to the Zone!)

[WG]

Originally posted by RedEyE
Obviously Henry is a great back, however, seeing the stats above, the Bills did an OK job running the ball last year. Really all it tells me is that the line is the same as last season and that Drew and Henry are better play makers, which is why the Bills have 4 more wins this season. IMO, Gilbride has not really adjusted his offensive scheme all season and that's not good. It's OK to use the theory keep using it until it's beaten, but that doesn't seem to apply to a team that can't find a winning streak. Gilbrides pass to run ratio is nearly 2:1.

The line isn't great. While the seem to be able to open holes without problems, the pass protection is just as bad as last year. You are correct, the line will get better with time it just would have been nice if the protection was there this season while PPrice was still a Bill. I think the Bills could have done some pretty impressive things had Bledsoe had a little more protection. Bringing in another vet lineman isn't a bad idea. Jonas continues to show signs of being injury prone and even though Teague has been doing well, he'd be better in the back-up tackle slot. I'd love to see the Bills bring in a true center.

RE,

This is the stuff I really gotta scratch my head on. You, and others, say the OL really isn't much better than last year.

Here was last year's lineup and when looking at it you have to consider that at least in one game we had 4 non-starters playing simulataneously and quite often 2 or 3 whereas this season we've had hardly any significant injuries whatsoever;

2001 Bills OL roster:

Bill Conaty (started 16)
Jon Carman (started 2 games, played 9)
Craig Heimburger (started 0, played 12)
Ma Unutoa (longsnapper, played 8 games anyway)
Corey Hulsey (started 12 games, played all 16)
John Fina (started 12 games, played in 13)
Marcus Sullivan (1st yr. 5th rounder)
Jonas Jennings (1st year)
R. Brown

Kris Farris was also being considered seriously before being placed on IR. Conaty, Carman, Heimburger, and Hulsey I don't think have taken a snap this season anywhere in the NFL.

The starting OL was:

Fina, Brown, Conaty, Hulsey, Jennings I believe. Maybe Heimburger on RT. They did some switching due to injury and inexperience. But Carman, Heimburger, Fina, all sucked and and they all had very significant playing time last year. Hulsey wasn't good either.

2002 Bills OL roster:

Brown
Conaty (playing backup instead of starting)
Jennings (in his second year playing much better, according to the coaches)
Price (a seasoned NFL vet as a backup)
Pucillo (doesn't play due to lack of injuries for the most part)
Sullivan (In his second season obviously much better as a result of having had another year under his belt, according to the coaches as well)
Teague (A seasoned NFL vet)
Williams (A first round draft selection and pretty indisputably the best OL-man in the draft in hindsight)

Starting OL for 2002:

Jennings (2nd rd.), Brown (1st rd.), Teague, Sullivan (5th rd.), Williams (1st rd.)

Hulsey, Conaty, Carman, Unutoa were all undrafted linemen. Jennings and Sullivan were both rookies playing w/o any significant veteran talent next to them and Sullivan didn't really play much at all and when he did it was clear that he was a rookie. The only decent veteran lineman on the team last season was Brown and he was a total debacle in terms of penalties and not exactly the OL-man leader we needed.

Are you serious here? Can you honestly say with a straight face that our OL is "the same"? B/c it sounds like just some giant excuse for Drew. Especially when you consider that we've had maybe what, 5 or 6 man/games of injuries to our starting OL-men vice the what had to have been 30 or 40 last year.

Conaty isn't starting this year.
Carman, Heimburger, Hulsey, Unutoa, and Farris aren't even on the team this year and 3 of those guys started regularly last year for very significant stretches of time. Are any of those guys even playing this year?

For 10 seasons now all of Drew's flaws have been the OL's fault! When is the line gonna be "good for Drew?" The truth be told, he needs a "Hogs line" such as Rypien had the year he was only sacked a dozen or so times if everyone's image of him is going to pan out. He's tossed 13, 15, 17, 19, 20, and 25 TDs in a season that he also had 27 INTs. That's 6 of 9 full seasons w/ very, very average performances. This year, he's had more than he's ever had. Everyone even said before this season began that his OL in N.E. sucked at PP. So if that's the case, it certainly wasn't any worse here yet he had better tools to work with than ever. The most prolific pass-catching FB in the history of the game. Moulds and Price who are being talked about as being the best tandem in the league and certainly better than he's ever had for sure. TEs who didn't get used by choice. A third WR better than anyone he's ever had. A RB who's supported him w/ more rushing yards than he's ever had.

Yet, he still can't seem to post numbers matching his previous two seasons' best. Unbelieveable to me.

When is any of the fault going to be his own? The guy's a statue. I'll step out and predict that midway through next season there's gonna be an awfully divided fan base in Buffalo. But hey, that's just a guess. ;)

But to say that the lines are no different or to subsequently imply that the play of the lines is "the same" cannot be substantiated honestly.

BTW, in some games the passing ratio was above 80% and above 75% in several.

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Now I'll tell you how they were the same. Both lines weren't able to protect the passer which because of the system hurt the team. If we're going to go with Bledsoe we need to improve the line. You can shift all the names around you want both years we were ineffective at the LOS.