Pats Training camp woes

[mysticsoto]

First they get decimated within their formidable LB corps and now they are getting holdouts like a typical team - something they hadn't had in a long time. Maybe the Patriots are at the end of their dynasty after all...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-patriots-seymour&prov=ap&type=lgns

[McGahee420]

Re: Pats Training camp woes

First they get decimated within their formidable LB corps and now they are getting holdouts like a typical team - something they hadn't had in a long time. Maybe the Patriots are at the end of their dynasty after all...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...v=ap&type=lgns

I hope so, I hate the pats and Boston, They have the worst fans ever!!!!

[ublinkwescore]

Re: Pats Training camp woes

And now it's time for us to take our division's crown.

[MDFINFAN]

Re: Pats Training camp woes

And now it's time for us to take our division's crown.

And that's exactly you will have to do..take it...the pats aren't going to rollover and play dead..they've had adversity before, like all the injuries and still kept going.

[Bulldog]

Re: Pats Training camp woes

And that's exactly you will have to do..take it...the pats aren't going to rollover and play dead..they've had adversity before, like all the injuries and still kept going.

I agree. It seems like I hear this every year. And yet, the Pats keep right on chugging along. We'll see.

[ublinkwescore]

Re: Pats Training camp woes

sooner or later this endless barage of bad luck has got to break their spirit.

Sooner or later they will be overwhelmed with too many obstacles.

[mysticsoto]

Re: Pats Training camp woes

I agree. It seems like I hear this every year. And yet, the Pats keep right on chugging along. We'll see.

The one big difference for me is that the 'tweener, fantastic LBs that they have are the heart and soul of their defense. Their whole strategy on defense revolves around their LBs - so they could very well be affected by the current changes. And then with their DC and OC leaving...these are the biggest changes they've had all at once in a long time. Up to now, they had a lot of consistency in their roster. Yeah, Ty Law went down last year and that was big, but their LBs are more important to them for the style of defense that they play (IMO) than CBs...the pressure that they get on a QB helps offset their secondary and create turnovers for their offense to capitalize on. Bellicheck has alot to worry about right now with picking who the new LBs will be, and playing OC/DC AND any problems and holdouts like by Seymour or anyone else...are a welcome distraction.

[Ickybaluky]

Re: Pats Training camp woes

You know, it amazes me that everyone talks about the Pats offseason, but they fail to mention all the good things that happened:

1) The return of Ben Watson. Watson started out of the gate last year despite reporting late, only to have his season derailed by injury. The Pats coaches are raving about him, and he adds a TE with Gonzales/Gates kind of athletic ability to the NFL's 6th ranked offense.

2) The drafting of Logan Mankins. The interior of the Pats OL will be sick, with Dan Koppen (already a very good C), Mankins and the extremely athletic Stephen Neal. Dillon is smiling cause all those guys are mean and nasty blockers in the run game.

3) The return of Guss Scott. Scott was working his way into the rotation at S when he was injured in training camp and missed the year. Now he is healthy.

4) The depth in the secondary. Remember last year when the Pats were forced to start the likes of Earthwind Moreland and Troy Brown at CB? Or the last 2 Super Bowls where the team struggled at S once Eugene Wilson was hurt? The Pats return the secondary that started in the playoffs (Wilson, Rodney Harrison, Randall Gay, Asante Samuel), but now they have guys like Duane Starks, Tyrone Poole, Scott, Dexter Reid, James Sanders, Antuan Edwards, Ellis Hobbs, Chad Scott and Hank Poteat battling for backup jobs. No team in the NFL will be deeper than the Pats in the secondary. That is a huge area of upgrade.

5) Locking up the core. Nobody mentions the Pats have been locking up their core players to extension. Just this offseason, Scott Pioli, Tom Brady, Mike Vrabel, Jarvis Green and Corey Dillon were locked up long-term. Adam Vinatieri will have a deal by the end of camp, and the Pats are taking care of Rodney Harrison, in a deal to be announced very soon. Seymour maybe holding out, but the Pats are talking with his agent about an extension, and something will get done. Seymour has gone out of his way to let people know he is not unhappy with the team, and is even still doing personal appearances for them.

6) The defensive line. Seymour is already one of the best DL in the NFL. Vince Wilfork will be even better after the experience of last year. Ty Warren had a great year last year, approaching Seymour's level of play by the end of the year. Jarvis Green would start on most NFL teams. Rodney Baily is back from injury. Marquis Hill is a 1st round talent who dropped to the 2nd because he came out early, but he has had a year to mature. In terms of young talent, the Pats DL is set for years.

7) For all the talk of losing Bruschi and Ted Johnson, the LB corps is still good. Vrabel and McGinest are both big-play guys. Colvin is healthy again, and ready to return to his Chicago form. Chad Brown and Monty Beisel were added. Tully Banta Cain has flashed top sack ability, but can't get on the field because the talent is too deep. Larry Izzo and Matt Chatham are top ST guys. Rookie Travis Claridge rounds them out.

8) Depth at WR. Deion Branch was set back by injury, but showed in the playoffs last year exactly how good he can be. David Givens returns as the other starter. David Terrell, Troy Brown, Bethel Johnson, Tim Dwight and P.K. Sam (who had a great offseason) will battle for backup positions. Ricky Bryant won't make this team, but he will land on someone's roster as he has NFL-level abiliity (you heard it here first).

9) Improved ST. Lost in the Super Bowl season was the fact the Pats ST dropped off noticeably from prior years, particularly in the return game. The Pats addressed that this year by adding some very good ST players, particularly return men. Guys like Chad Morton, Tim Dwight and Bethel Johnson will really upgrade the Pats ST.

I know you guys don't want to hear it, but the Pats have been re-tooling on the fly whlie winning the Super Bowl these last couple seasons. They have been drafting well these last few years, and those players are making an impact.

Compare them from the 2001 team, and it is startling how many changes they have gone through. There are only 9 players (10 if you include Bruschi) in camp this year that were on the team that won the Super Bowl in 2001. They have been going through changes each year, and have adjusted to keep winning. They are a far better team than they were in 2001.

I don't know if they will win another Super Bowl this year, for the odds are stacked pretty heavily against it (nobody has done it), but they will be in the mix. They aren't going anywhere for the near future.

[OpIv37]

Re: Pats Training camp woes

it doesn't matter. In true Patriots fashion, they'll sign some undrafted DE to play for Seymour who will have 12.5 sacks in his first season and retire 3 sacks short of B. Smith's record.

[DynaPaul]

Re: Pats Training camp woes

You know, it amazes me that everyone talks about the Pats offseason, but they fail to mention all the good things that happened:

1) The return of Ben Watson. Watson started out of the gate last year despite reporting late, only to have his season derailed by injury. The Pats blah... blah... blah...

Stick a fork in yourself... YOU'RE DONE!

[Tatonka]

Re: Pats Training camp woes

You know, it amazes me that everyone talks about the Pats offseason, but they fail to mention all the good things that happened:

1) The return of Ben Watson. Watson started out of the gate last year despite reporting late, only to have his season derailed by injury. The Pats coaches are raving about him, and he adds a TE with Gonzales/Gates kind of athletic ability to the NFL's 6th ranked offense.

2) The drafting of Logan Mankins. The interior of the Pats OL will be sick, with Dan Koppen (already a very good C), Mankins and the extremely athletic Stephen Neal. Dillon is smiling cause all those guys are mean and nasty blockers in the run game.

3) The return of Guss Scott. Scott was working his way into the rotation at S when he was injured in training camp and missed the year. Now he is healthy.

4) The depth in the secondary. Remember last year when the Pats were forced to start the likes of Earthwind Moreland and Troy Brown at CB? Or the last 2 Super Bowls where the team struggled at S once Eugene Wilson was hurt? The Pats return the secondary that started in the playoffs (Wilson, Rodney Harrison, Randall Gay, Asante Samuel), but now they have guys like Duane Starks, Tyrone Poole, Scott, Dexter Reid, James Sanders, Antuan Edwards, Ellis Hobbs, Chad Scott and Hank Poteat battling for backup jobs. No team in the NFL will be deeper than the Pats in the secondary. That is a huge area of upgrade.

5) Locking up the core. Nobody mentions the Pats have been locking up their core players to extension. Just this offseason, Scott Pioli, Tom Brady, Mike Vrabel, Jarvis Green and Corey Dillon were locked up long-term. Adam Vinatieri will have a deal by the end of camp, and the Pats are taking care of Rodney Harrison, in a deal to be announced very soon. Seymour maybe holding out, but the Pats are talking with his agent about an extension, and something will get done. Seymour has gone out of his way to let people know he is not unhappy with the team, and is even still doing personal appearances for them.

6) The defensive line. Seymour is already one of the best DL in the NFL. Vince Wilfork will be even better after the experience of last year. Ty Warren had a great year last year, approaching Seymour's level of play by the end of the year. Jarvis Green would start on most NFL teams. Rodney Baily is back from injury. Marquis Hill is a 1st round talent who dropped to the 2nd because he came out early, but he has had a year to mature. In terms of young talent, the Pats DL is set for years.

7) For all the talk of losing Bruschi and Ted Johnson, the LB corps is still good. Vrabel and McGinest are both big-play guys. Colvin is healthy again, and ready to return to his Chicago form. Chad Brown and Monty Beisel were added. Tully Banta Cain has flashed top sack ability, but can't get on the field because the talent is too deep. Larry Izzo and Matt Chatham are top ST guys. Rookie Travis Claridge rounds them out.

8) Depth at WR. Deion Branch was set back by injury, but showed in the playoffs last year exactly how good he can be. David Givens returns as the other starter. David Terrell, Troy Brown, Bethel Johnson, Tim Dwight and P.K. Sam (who had a great offseason) will battle for backup positions. Ricky Bryant won't make this team, but he will land on someone's roster as he has NFL-level abiliity (you heard it here first).

9) Improved ST. Lost in the Super Bowl season was the fact the Pats ST dropped off noticeably from prior years, particularly in the return game. The Pats addressed that this year by adding some very good ST players, particularly return men. Guys like Chad Morton, Tim Dwight and Bethel Johnson will really upgrade the Pats ST.

I know you guys don't want to hear it, but the Pats have been re-tooling on the fly whlie winning the Super Bowl these last couple seasons. They have been drafting well these last few years, and those players are making an impact.

Compare them from the 2001 team, and it is startling how many changes they have gone through. There are only 9 players (10 if you include Bruschi) in camp this year that were on the team that won the Super Bowl in 2001. They have been going through changes each year, and have adjusted to keep winning. They are a far better team than they were in 2001.

I don't know if they will win another Super Bowl this year, for the odds are stacked pretty heavily against it (nobody has done it), but they will be in the mix. They aren't going anywhere for the near future.

i want to go throw up now.. your right about almost everything.. and i hate you now.

[ublinkwescore]

Re: Pats Training camp woes

Even after reading what NE39 wrote, I still don't think the Pats will go all the way this year - they've had their 15 minutes of fame for this decade, and now they'll just be one of those teams for the next 5 years that still makes it to the playoffs, maybe even makes a little noise in the playoffs - I think teams in the NFL are gonna start to pick up the Pats' number.

[Ickybaluky]

Re: Pats Training camp woes

i want to go throw up now.. your right about almost everything.. and i hate you now.

One more thing...

The Patriots have extra picks in the 3rd (from New Orleans), 4th (from Detriot) and 5th (from Oakland) rounds in next year's draft.

[The Spaz]

Re: Pats Training camp woes

All hail the Pats!

[Ickybaluky]

Re: Pats Training camp woes

This Pat Kirwan article does a good job of making the same point.

I particularly like this line:

"Finally, as I left the Patriots, I felt the demise of the world champions has been grossly exaggerated and may be more about wishful thinking by the other teams around the league."

That is the same point I was trying to make.