Pick surrendered for Bledsoe is #14...

[itsandthings]

Buffalo, San Diego and Kansas City all finished 8-8. The Buffalo pick, traded to New England for Drew Bledsoe, is #14 due to a worse SOS.

The 8-8 teams are ordered as follows:

#14 New England (from Buffalo) - .473 SOS
#15 San Diego - .492 SOS
#16 Kansas City - .527 SOS

The Pats own pick is #19. They finished ahead of Denver in SOS, but behind Miami (New Orleans pick) and New Orleans.

The non-playoff 9-7 teams are ordered as follows:

#17 New Orleans - .502 or .498 SOS depending on outcome of tonight's game
#18 New Orleans (from Miami) - .508 SOS
#19 New England - .525 SOS
#20 Denver - .527 SOS

[itsandthings]

Also, Buffalo's first pick on draft day should be #46 in the 2nd round.

[clumping platelets]

With the 46th pick in the 2003 NFL Draft, the Buffalo Bills select.........DT Kevin Williams, Oklahoma St.


:pray:

[JefftheBillsfan]

what day is the draft, or has it been anounced yet? hehe...i must get work off for that day!!

[Dozerdog]

People seemed to want the pick to be as high as possible to spite New England. But in retrospect, that's kinda dumb. It only hurts us in Rds 2-7.

You have to wait and see what's available at that spot before putting a final grade on the trade, but Buffalo made out like a bandit.

[Tatonka]

draft day is always on a saturday and sunday.. you wont need to take off work.. unless you work weekends that is.. and it always seems to fall behind my birthday on April 13th.. so some weekend right around tthere.

[4thAndLong]

Knowing the Pats, they'll draft two more TEs with their 2 #1 picks.

[TypicalBill]

Originally posted by clumping platelets
With the 46th pick in the 2003 NFL Draft, the Buffalo Bills select.........DT Kevin Williams, Oklahoma St.


:pray:


dont you think he'll be available in the 3rd round CP? it would be nice to pick Boss Bailey or DJ Williams in the 2nd and Kevin Williams in the 3rd.

[Earthquake Enyart]

What ever happened to that Pig Prather guy you all wanted last year?

[clumping platelets]

I doubt Kevin Williams makes it to our pick in rd 3. I like DJ Williams but Bailey is smaller than advertised

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by JefftheBillsfan
what day is the draft, or has it been anounced yet? hehe...i must get work off for that day!!

It's usually a Sat/Sun n mid April

[venis2k1]

i still say DT Colvin Cole

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
What ever happened to that Pig Prather guy you all wanted last year?
Looks like this little Piggie went home......

http://www.bengals.com/press/pressreleases.asp?iCurPage=0&PR_id=158


BENGALS PLACE PIG PRATHER ON RESERVE/RETIRED LIST
7/29/2002 -


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE, MONDAY, JULY 29, 2002

FROM CINCINNATI BENGALS PUBLIC RELATIONS





The Bengals today placed S Pig Prather of Mississippi State on the Reserve/Retired list. Prather, who signed with Cincinnati as a rookie free agent on April 23, has informed the club he no longer plans to pursue an NFL career.

I'd quit football if I played for Cincy too.

[clumping platelets]

The draft is April 26-27

[JefftheBillsfan]

that = super late!!!

[itsandthings]

You have to wait and see what's available at that spot before putting a final grade on the trade, but Buffalo made out like a bandit.

As a Pats fan, I think the Pats made out in spades. They get a good pick which they can turn into a player that will help them down the road. Buffalo got Bledsoe, who Brought them instance credibility and upgraded their QB position.

However, in time, you guys will find out what NE did. Bledsoe is a great guy, put up good numbers, but plays small in big games. He is a choke in big games, always has been. If you guys ever win anything, it will be in spite of him. You would be better off if you had saved the pick and went out to get another QB.

[Patrick76777]

Originally posted by Tatonka
draft day is always on a saturday and sunday.. you wont need to take off work.. unless you work weekends that is.. and it always seems to fall behind my birthday on April 13th.. so some weekend right around tthere.


April 13th. That’s a sweet Birthday. You’re in good company.

[Patrick76777]

Originally posted by clumping platelets
I doubt Kevin Williams makes it to our pick in rd 3. I like DJ Williams but Bailey is smaller than advertised

What about Stanley and Stella Williams! Do you think they’ll be around?

[Akhippo]

Anybody that gets theyre team to a superbowl cant be all that bad. And as far as playing small in big games, he saved the pats bacon last year by coming in and playing clutch in the playoffs. Granted hes not top tier anymore, but hes far from the bottom. And what test are you using to judge him. He cost us less than Rob Johnson, and far less than R Williams. Ricky did about as much as DB did to help his team to the playoffs. To NE make sure with the pick you got from the Bills that you use it to pick a DE form ASU.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by itsandthings
You have to wait and see what's available at that spot before putting a final grade on the trade, but Buffalo made out like a bandit.

As a Pats fan, I think the Pats made out in spades. They get a good pick which they can turn into a player that will help them down the road. Buffalo got Bledsoe, who Brought them instance credibility and upgraded their QB position.

However, in time, you guys will find out what NE did. Bledsoe is a great guy, put up good numbers, but plays small in big games. He is a choke in big games, always has been. If you guys ever win anything, it will be in spite of him. You would be better off if you had saved the pick and went out to get another QB.

Well, with Bledsoe (and his help in the AFC Championship game) you guys made it to the Super Bowl.

This season, you failed to make the playoffs. The Pats had an opportunity to grab Josh Reed but instead traded up to get another TE. Imagine where the Pats would be if they took Reed there, and usd him instead of Donald Hayes?

The Bills improved 5 games, the Pats slid 2 games backwards. (and ate a chunk of Bledsoe's contract tio the tune of 7 million) Both sides did what they could, but Buffalo IMO made out much better in the long run.

[clumping platelets]

Pats can still draft a stiff!

[Xfactor]

Originally posted by itsandthings
You have to wait and see what's available at that spot before putting a final grade on the trade, but Buffalo made out like a bandit.

As a Pats fan, I think the Pats made out in spades. They get a good pick which they can turn into a player that will help them down the road. Buffalo got Bledsoe, who Brought them instance credibility and upgraded their QB position.

However, in time, you guys will find out what NE did. Bledsoe is a great guy, put up good numbers, but plays small in big games. He is a choke in big games, always has been. If you guys ever win anything, it will be in spite of him. You would be better off if you had saved the pick and went out to get another QB.

Some of us figured that out while he was in N.E., some didn't.

I agree with ya tho. Funny thing is the perceptions vs. the reality. His winning record against winning teams at .500 or above is 35-63 career, 17-35 since '97, and 3-8 this season. He tossed 13 TDs against 15 INTs in those game this season. He's been terrible in the playoffs and terrible against the AFC East.

[Earthquake Enyart]

These kind of arguments are silly. How many QB's have winning records vs. winning teams? The Pats since 97 haven't exactly been world beaters (except for last year obviously).

[HenryRules]

I agree with EE, I think if people want to use the "performance against teams greater than .500" stat, they should provide comparisons of other QBs. IMO, on its own, it demonstrates absolutely nothing except that teams with a record greater than .500 are better than those with a record worse than .500 ... well, I knew that beforehand.

[Xfactor]

Well, it would sure at least be nice if he had turned a good playoff game at least once or had a decent history of performance against our divisional rivals. I really wonder if we would have beaten Miami twice if Fiedler had not been hurt.

[itsandthings]

The Pats got to the Super Bowl in 1996 because of Bill Parcells, Curtis Martin and the defense. They did it is spite of Bledsoe.

Drew's career playoff stats (7 games):

51.2% completions

190.7 yards per game

5.3 yds/att

6-to-10 TD to Int

58.2 QB Rating


In his 10 seasons, he has thrown 104 TDs to 62 Ints in the 1st half of seasons while throwing 86 TDs and 92 Ints in the 2nd half of seasons. He fades down the stretch, and is even worse in the playoffs.

Drew is a great guy, which is why people root for him. I like him a lot myself, but I recognize what he is: Good guy, Good numbers, not that great when it counts. Buffalo fans have already experienced that feeling where he takes risks 3-4 times during the game which no QB should make. It has been a pattern throughout his career and is why he is so easy to gameplan against for a good team.

[Xfactor]

Pennington is 6-2 v. .500 or better opponents
Gannon is 9-4
Brady 6-7
McNair 6-2
Favre 5-3 for a few

It sure beats 3-8

[Earthquake Enyart]

This is still garbage. The weather gets worse late in the year. Of course his numbers will be lower. Even this year, the schedule makers did him no favors with late road games at NE and GB.

[HenryRules]

That's team performance, not indivual performance. I think teams, not players, win games.

[itsandthings]

I keep hearing people laugh about the Dan Graham pick, but the kid is going to be a heck of a player. He struggled this year with several injuries, but flashed the potential which showed why he was drafted high.

TE's rarely make an impact in their 1st year, anyway. Graham is similar to Todd Heap of Baltimore. Heap had 16 catches for 206 yds and a TD in his rookie season. Graham had 15 catches for 150 yards and a TD. Heap busted out this year for 68 catches, 836 yards and 6 TDs, and Graham likely will show dramatic improvement as well.

The Pats actually helped themselves a great deal with both their day 1 picks last year. Graham and Deion Branch (who had as big an impact as Josh Reed despite getting hurt and missing the last few games) will be key parts of the Pats offense for the coming years.

[itsandthings]

People love to make excuses for Bledsoe, because he is such a good guy. However, the numbers don't lie and your eyes should tell you if your objective. The guy is awful in the clutch.

I actually think Buffalo has a pretty good young team with a bright future. I think they would be better off finding a different QB.

[HenryRules]

what numbers are you talking about itsandthings? I haven't seen any yet. Just because you put stats down doesn't mean they say what you think they do.

The only stats you've given with comparisons to other players is records vs. teams with a winning record. That same argument can be used to claim that Carlos Emmons (LB for Eagles) is a better LB than Takeo Spikes. I'm not given an excuse for Bledsoe here, I'm just showing that record vs. teams with a winning record is a poor stat.

[HenryRules]

To provide a comparison for the second-half problems of Bledsoe. Brett Favre plays in a climate similar to New England/Buffalo. This year, Favre had 15 TDs and 4 INTs in the first 8 games and 11 TDs and 11 INTs in the second 8 games. Looks like weather may be a contributing factor to poor second half numbers over Bledsoe's career.

[Patrick76777]

Give us all the stats you want! Fact is, we got Bledsoe for the 14th pick in the draft. That’s a steal. They wanted the 4th overall last year and couldn’t get it. So they settled for this year hoping it would be a top 5 again. And seeing as how we were so bad last year, it wasn’t too much of a reach. But alas we played well and only have to give up the 14th pick. Good trade for the Pats, great trade for the Bills.

[WG]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
This is still garbage. The weather gets worse late in the year. Of course his numbers will be lower. Even this year, the schedule makers did him no favors with late road games at NE and GB.

You're a real comedian! WTH happened in the Miami game then? Worst weather game of the season and it's one of Drew's best!

It's really simple. People see what they want to see. If everyone thinks that Drew has good games against the best teams, then hey, that's fine. We'll all find out that what happened this season is normal for Drew. Everyone asks for proof. I say this to them, go find a playoff game where Drew played well and helped his team win! It can't be done b/c it has never happened.

Everyone will cite one single drive for half a field on like two key plays in last year's Pittsburgh game in which Drew disn't even start. But go look at the other drives that he "was masterful in."

You certainly can't find any good playoff games of his of the 6 that he started and finished during the Pats good years. Again, as a matter of fact, and I emphasize that word b/c everyone will think I'm making things up or "twisting stats", etc., but the fact of the matter is that he was the weak link in most if not all of those games costing the Pats more than he chipped in. its said 5 TDs/10 INTs when it's actually 12 INTs. In fact, Drew only had one PO game in which he didn't toss at least one more INT than TD and that game was far from good for him.

Now, that's all fine and dandy yards and all. But if you expect to make a serious run in the playoffs, you simply can't expect to have your QB give a game away. Even if you get a bye (#1 or #2 seed) then you still have to win 3 games to win a SB. Drew hasn't proven that he can play well in one single game of that caliber, let alone 3 of them.

That's what all those of us who know Drew are talking about. The facts support that. His performances and the resulting team performances don't speak against it at all this season. Again, in fact they paint the exact same picture. You can take a single game by any QB you want and match it to Drew's entire season performance, but how silly is that.

The question that hardly any Bledsoe/"Bills" fans want to look at honestly is when has Drew played up in the big games? Actually, you can take it step further. In which big games has Drew actually contributed more than what an average NFL QB would? Drew generally stinks the joing up in the biggest of games.

Answer that and much of this argument ceases to be an argument.

I'll make a bold prediction: Many of you now defending Drew to the hilt will be highly PO'd by midseason next year. You'll see what everyone else who has watched Drew diligently has realized. We have a much tougher schedule next season. There will be no NFC North or AFC North. When it happens, just realize how many seasons we'll have pissed away when it all shakes out.

[4thAndLong]

Originally posted by itsandthings
I keep hearing people laugh about the Dan Graham pick, but the kid is going to be a heck of a player. He struggled this year with several injuries, but flashed the potential which showed why he was drafted high.

TE's rarely make an impact in their 1st year, anyway. Graham is similar to Todd Heap of Baltimore. Heap had 16 catches for 206 yds and a TD in his rookie season. Graham had 15 catches for 150 yards and a TD. Heap busted out this year for 68 catches, 836 yards and 6 TDs, and Graham likely will show dramatic improvement as well.

The Pats actually helped themselves a great deal with both their day 1 picks last year. Graham and Deion Branch (who had as big an impact as Josh Reed despite getting hurt and missing the last few games) will be key parts of the Pats offense for the coming years.

Heap wasn't a starter in his first year. He was behind Sharpe.

I dont see why you draft a position that your loaded in.

[don137]

Not sure how this will come out but here is Drew's career post season stats...


Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
1994 cle L,13-20 | 21 50 235 1 3 | 2 2 0
1996 pit W,28-3 | 14 24 164 1 2 | 1 -1 0
1996 jax W,20-6 | 20 33 178 0 1 | 1 4 0
*1996 gnb L,21-35 | 25 48 253 2 4 | 1 1 0
1997 mia W,17-3 | 16 32 139 1 0 | 2 4 0
1997 pit L,6-7 | 23 44 264 0 2 | 2 -4 0
2001 pit W,24-17 | 10 21 102 1 0 | 4 1 0
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
TOTAL | 129 252 1335 6 12 | 13 7 0

[SoCalBillsFan]

Wys, Drew, along with any other QB in the NFL, is not perfect. He is gonna have bad game. PAcker fans didn't crumble when Brett Favre had a 4 INT day and 1 some-odd yards. Another game he had 2 picks and 100 some odd yards. It happens, to all QB's.

What player could we get with the number 14 pick that will turn the franchise around (remember, we would still need a qb!)? How does this one draft pick "piss away" so many seaons? I don't get it. I dont think 1 DT or 1 LB or 1 anything can have that much positive impact for the team. Besides, who says that pick would have even panned out like we hoped? Ad we would still need a QB! TO say that this trade ruined seasons is innacurate.

Wys i am on your side in that I was very hisitent to do this deal in the first place, and I have also been critical of drew at times. But he's still a good qb. When was the last time our qb had an 86 rating? And when gilbride learns how to call plays (and I know you agree with me that he stinks) that rating will be higher. He is not gonna carry the team, is is not the savior, he is not a superstar. But he is a great pice of the puzzle. THis team will be a TEAM, and drew is a guy who can get the job done. But even if you think he isn't that great, you still can't say that losing one number 14 pick will ruin us for seasons. It just doesnt make sense

[WG]

Who said anything about a draft pick? It's a sunk cost now.

All I'm saying is that unlike Favre, Drew has never had a good playoff game, ever! Again, he's only costed his team in the playoffs except for on one single drive last year. But he didn't start and play the entire game.

Where am I losin' ya?

[BillsMan80]

I can't see how next year's schedule will be tougher. Our schedule screams at least 10-6 IMO.

Home-NYJ, NE, Miami, Philly, Washington, Houston, Indy, Cincy
Away-NYJ, NE, Miami, Dallas, NYG, Tennessee, Jacksonville, KC

Out of that schedule, the only teams that I will admit should be better than us next year are Philadelphia and Tennessee. All the others are definately winnable games, and should be games where we will win or be right there in the end. I can already pick out at least 5 or 6 games that are games that we are clearly the better team in, and the Division games, all the teams are right with each other.

[itsandthings]

I understand that you may not want to hear it, Pats fans were in denial as well. You can't deny the plain facts, however. Drew rarely plays well against the good teams, and has never been a good in the playoffs. His lack of mobility and holding the ball too long while trying to force the ball downfield into the teeth of coverage are weaknesses which good teams expose. This isn't a new phenomenon, he has been the same player his entire career. Drew's career pattern of fast starts followed by poor play down the stretch when his team needs him can not be denied.

Buffalo has some good, young talent on their team and is heading in the right direction. They need a good, young QB to build around. Bledsoe will only hold you guys back.

[itsandthings]

Graham wasn't a starter this year as well, and the Pats were far from loaded at TE. Christian Fauria is a good player, but not special. Cam Cleeland was useless. They needed Graham, and he showed signs but injuries caused him to miss time. Graham flashed ability at times that made you think he was going to be special (like the first Buffalo game when he had a few big plays), and showed he was a better blocker than advertised, but between injuries and a case of the drops his rookie season was a washout. Nonetheless, his future is bright and he should improve significantly next year with a full offseason.

[HenryRules]

Again, itsandthings, who is it that plays great games against good teams ... until I see comparisons against other players, I can't really judge Drew (nor can anyone else for that matter). His season numbers compare favourably (IMO a #8-12 QB is a good thing) with most of the league. Where do his numbers against good teams rank? I'd guess he's about #8-12 out of all QBs whe only games against good teams are considered. If that's the case, then what's wrong with that?
Quit hiding behind statistics that you haven't even presented.

[helmetguy]

Did anyone read Felser's column this week? It should answer a lot of the "questions' about Bledsoe. He did a hell of a job this year when the offense had to play "shootout" with the opposition. Additionally, Henry's early spate of fumblitis kinda forced the offense's hand-the pitiful defense couldn't bail the team out from offensive miscues.

HenryRules has a point, stats don't tell the entire story.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."-Benjamin Disraeli
"Statistics are like alienists-they will testify for both sides."-Fiorello LaGuardia

[mybills]

Originally posted by itsandthings
I understand that you may not want to hear it, Pats fans were in denial as well.
Buffalo has some good, young talent on their team and is heading in the right direction. They need a good, young QB to build around. Bledsoe will only hold you guys back.

I fully agree with your denial comment, but I see a contradiction too. If Ne got to the SB in '96' in spite of Drew, why can't the Bills get there in spite of him? I'd love to have a different QB, but as you know it's not a snap your fingers & it's done type of thing. We'll stick it out with him until something good presents itself (slim pickin's this time) because we DO have the young talents, as you say. I wasn't crazy about our last QB either, but I had to stick it out then too.


Originally posted by HenryRules
who is it that plays great games against good teams ... until I see comparisons against other players, I can't really judge Drew

:scratch: um, Chad Pennington did it yesterday! :D

[WG]

Drew may be around #12 in terms of overall stats. But like you just said helmet, stats don't always mean everything.

When you look at Drew's team making the playoffs in '96 and the SB, they won in spite of Drew. Many think he "led" them when in fact they won in spite of him and mostly due to Martin and good D. Here were his stats from those two PO games:

14 of 24, 58.3%, for 164, 6.8 YPA, 1 TD, 2 INTs
20 of 33, 60.6%, for 178, 5.4 YPA, 0 TDs, 1 INT

He's why they lost the SB too.

25 of 48, 52.1%, 253, 5.3 YPA, 2 TDs, 4 INTs

Martin had 3 TDs and had a gazillion yards while the Pat D held Pitt. and Jax to only 3 and 6 points in those games. Heck, Drew practically did his best to see that they lost.

BTW, no one wants to go digging up these stats. At least I know I don't. But when they all get challenged like that, it only begs for it.

HR,

You want a comparison, well here it is.

SAME game!

Favre: 14 of 27 for 246 yds., 2 TDs, 0 INTs, and a rushing TD too. Martin and Levens had similar games and the receivers of both QBs was about equal.

I bet some QBs who aren't "deemed" as good as Drew have some very good PO games coming up here now. I'd wager that Pennington w/o any PO experience at all has at least one good game. Gannon will. McNair should. McNabb I'm sure will. Favre you can count on again at least once or twice. Garcia, and I even bet K. Collins posts a good game too. We'll see.

[WG]

BTW, one statistic that I think has tons of meaning is TD%. It is the percentage of a QB's attempts that end up in a TD.

It is revealing b/c it's one of the few QB measures that is efficiency minded. Attempts and yardage such as Drew is known for are like measuring a boxer on punches thrown w/o looking at KOs, actual hits, or other more telling measures. Or like rating an MLB hitter by "at bats". Who cares if the guy has 800 at bats if he's batting .173 or has only 50 RBIs.

TD% measures how effective a QB is with the yards that he does throw for. Drew is 22nd in that category with 3.9%, barely ahead of such QBs as Hasselbeck, Collins, Griese, Plummer, and Kitna and behind such wonderful QBs as Blake, Miller, Couch, Ramsey, and Peete.

[clumping platelets]

Defense and special teams lost more games this year than Drew

[WG]

Until our D and STs play so bad in 6 of 6 playoff games, I won't be worried about them playing a string of 3 games so horribly that it needs to be overcome by the strengths of the rest of the team.

[don137]

FYI- If anyone wants a site to look up the stats of a team and or player-past or present a good site is
http://www.football-reference.com/players/index.htm

[Earthquake Enyart]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Drew may be around #12 in terms of overall stats. But like you just said helmet, stats don't always mean everything.



Then you give us a page of stats. :rofl:

[HenryRules]

HR,

You want a comparison, well here it is.

I don't recall stating that I thought Bledsoe was better than Favre ... I figured Bledsoe was about the 8-12th best QB in the NFL. So how does a comparison with one other QB in one game help in anyway towards that discussion.

[Patrick76777]

Wait a second! The dude is 4-2 in the playoffs with the 2 loses by 7 and 1 point respectively. Why don’t people understand that stats are not going to be as good in the playoffs because most of the time the game involves 2 very good teams! I’ll take 4-2 in the playoffs. Kelly was 9-4 in the playoffs, that’s 69%. Drew’s 4-2 is at 67%. Dan Marino was 8-9 in the playoffs for god sake. With a 77% QB rating.

[itsandthings]

Bledsoe is 3-3 as a starter in the playoffs. He was 0-1 in 1994, was 2-1 in 1996 and 1-1 in 1997.

You can discount the stats in certain cases, but in Bledsoe's case the stats are so poor they can't so easily be explained away. 51.2% completions, 5.3 yds/att and a 6-to-10 TD-to-Int say a lot about his playoff performances. He has been poor as a big-game player.

Really, other than the yardage Drew's career stats are not that great. His TD% and Int% aren't great, his comp% and QB Rating are mediocre. His career yds/att is average. He does throw for a lot of yards, but his production doesn't match up to the top QBs.

Vinny Testaverde has thrown for a lot of yardage as well.

[HenryRules]

Again itsandthings ... show us how other players perform in these situations (and multiple players, I think most will agree already that Drew is not the best QB in the NFL). Stats without any context are absolutely meaningless.

[itsandthings]

You want playoff stats for other players? That would take time to compile. I keep a lot of these stats in a database, but it will take some time.

However, if you wish, I will try to run the playoff stats of the last several Super Bowl QBs. Just give me some time.

[Patrick76777]

Sorry, i'm talking about playoffs not the superbowl, and if i'm not mistaken, he was credited with that playoff win last year

[itsandthings]

Actually, Brady started the game and was having a big game when Lee Flowers jumped on his ankle and sent him out. Bledsoe came in cold and completed those 3 passes, but after that did nothing. He threw 2 balls that should have been intercepted, one that Joey Porter dropped that would have been a TD.

I give Drew a lot of credit for coming in cold off the bench in difficult circumstances, but you would have a tough time saying he played well in that game.

At any rate, he is 3-3 in playoff games he has started.

[colin]

Brady did not do well in the Playoffs. The team won because of D. Saying a QB, who can make the throws anyhow, can't win it for you is kinda silly. Unless the dude just can't run the O at all, the team CAN win it all, it is more about D than anything else.

If we put together a solid D, and we get a bit better at pass blocking, and Henry holds onto the freaking rock (that must have been about 3 games right there), we are gonna kick ass.

[Halbert]

Originally posted by itsandthings
As a Pats fan, I think the Pats made out in spades. They get a good pick which they can turn into a player that will help them down the road. Buffalo got Bledsoe, who Brought them instance credibility and upgraded their QB position.

However, in time, you guys will find out what NE did. Bledsoe is a great guy, put up good numbers, but plays small in big games. He is a choke in big games, always has been. If you guys ever win anything, it will be in spite of him. You would be better off if you had saved the pick and went out to get another QB. [/B]
A. Both teams made out well. NE couldn't keep both and Brady has shown he's starting calibre material. They get a #14 pick and rid themselves of locker room tension.

B. Overall the Bills got a much better return because they needed it much more. While the Pats rid themselves of a problem-in-waiting, the Bills got a rock solid veteran leader who will steady a young and emerging team while also winning 2-3 games completely on his own during the season. The Pats did well but the Bills did great on that deal simply because they had more to lose by not doing it.

C. I personally would put the likelihood of a #14 pick ever reaching the status of Bledsoe at 50% - at best. The spot is likely to produce a solid contributor but not necessarily a multi-probowl player and certainly not a SB calibre QB.

D. Add to that the fact that NE kicked in a significant portion of Drew's salary and the deal looks even better.

E. Whatever liabilities Drew had in his previous seasons, and he did, will fade as he continues to mature and improve. A mobile QB's non-throwing skills erode quickly - a statue like Bledsoe has much less to lose and thus will improve more significantly and consistently with more years of experience. It is entirely likely that his best years are ahead of him.

Bottom line: NE had no choice and yet did pretty well. Buffalo gets a definite franchise QB for the next 6-8 years. I can't see how anyone could possible give the edge to anyone but the Bills on this deal.

[Kelly The Dog]

Drew is likely going to be in the Hall of Fame. The Bills got him for a full year and the Patriots havent even drafted yet. That's a free year, a Pro Bowl year, that filled the seats and renewed the interest in the community for the Bills. The Bills were THE HIGHEST attended road team in the NFL, which is more money in Ralph's pocket. The money we DONT have to spend on a hit-or-miss 14th pick will be used to sign Spikes or Colvin or Holliday or some other proven player. Probably close to the same amount in fact. This was a tremendous deal for the Bills on every single level and it doesnt mean a thing what NE does with or doesnt do with the pick, does or doesn't do with Brady. This is already one of the best trades in Bills history.

[don137]

New England while it does have a very good coaching staff does not have a very good scouting department for college players. I looked at there recent picks and they only have four players drafted in the first three rounds worth anything since 1998. They are good at drafting injury prone players though. With this type of drafting I will gladly give up my number 14 overall for Bledsoe.

2002-
1-Daniel Graham- traded up for an injury prone player. Bad pick
2-Deion Branch-WR- too small. will be a career journeyman

2001-
1-Richard Seymour- 6th overall. Very solid player but at #6 overal you better get an impact player
2-Matt Light-OT-decent tackle but no better than a John Fina

2000-
2-Adrian Klemm-OT- 4 career starts
3-JR Redmond- RB- 527 career rushing yards

1999-
1-Damien Woody-C-Starter. Good but not great
1- Andy Katzemoyer- LB- out of football
2-Kevin Faulk- RB- nothing more than a 3rd down back
3- Tony George-S-out of football

1998
1-Robert Edwards-RB- plays for Dolphins
1-Tebucky Jones-S-Good player
2-Tony Simmons-WR-never did much. last played for NY Giants
2-Rod Rutledge-TE-on Texans roster
3-Chris Floyd-FB-out of football-

[WG]

Look, how's this for a bottom line:

Drew cost us several games this season. We could have easily beaten K.C. if we hadn't relied on him.

He did nothing in the first Miami game to compliment Henry's huge day other than one single big play on a broken defensive play. D won that game due to Fiedler being out and us holding them to only 10 points.

He singlehandedly cost us the G.B. game b/c of his own personal TOs. He played poorly and was a factor in the loss w/ 2 INTs, one very key, in the first Jets game.

We won in spite of him v. San Diego and only had the chance to win b/c the D played outstandingly allowing the game to be tied at the end thus allowing us to take the ball out of Drew's hands and put it into Henry's for the win.

He played HORRIBLY and cost us both N.E. games due to his own personal INT to set the Pats up for what proved to be the backbreaker w/ a INT at our 6 YL.

He cost us the Raider game by tossing a horrible INT to Buchanon, a rookie CB, that got returned for a TD and then on the following drive taking 2 straight sacks and an incomplete pass to singlehandely put us out of that game.

That's 4 or 5 games that his play directly cost us and two others that were won in spite of him.

You guys can say all you want, but if it hadn't been for Drew then we'd be in the playoffs right now. Any average QB would have been able to get us to 8-8 w/ this vastly improved team. If we had had a different QB, then we would have run more. It took Drew to throw away several games and nearly several others.

He'll do it again next season. If this were a different team than my own, I'd wager some big, big dollars on it just as I did when he was in N.E. and made out like a P/T job each year.

Rushing and D is the combo. If we do it next year, then we'll do well. If Drew comes out throwing for 6,000 yards expect bad things to happen.

If you look at the games that he's struggled in this season, then you will notice that they were all good teams in at least one facet. This is and always has been the case with Drew. To expect him to not throw away at least 1 or 2 of 3 or 4 playoff games is unrealistic and not only the way he's proven himself to play, but the standard for him.

You can take it to the bank practically. He did less this season in Buffalo w/ twice the tools than he ever did in N.E. in his two best seasons there. That is bad news.

As to his being 3-3 in the playoffs, sure, and the reason why the Cowboys won all of their SBs was due entirely to Aikman. :rolleyes:

Going 14 of 24 for 164 yards, 1 TD, 2 INTs in a 28-3 playoff win while Martin has 166 rushing yards and 3 TDs does not mean that Bledsoe won the game for them. In fact, it means they won in spite of his poor play and due to great D allowing only 3 points and an outstanding RB in Martin who played well for a couple of seasons and made Drew look good.

Those are the facts. I realize that many don't want to see them. But hey, there are many realities in life that some are willingly blind to.

[Patrick76777]

Originally posted by Wys Guy


You guys can say all you want, but if it hadn't been for Drew then we'd be in the playoffs right now.


I don’t know how you manage to outdo yourself time and time again. This is ridiculous. So you’re saying with the same players around him, we would have been playoff bound with our other options at QB last year, Jeff Blake, AVP and Travis Brown. Nuts. Just NUTS. You’re so one-sided. Sure Drew had some bad games. He was terrible against NE both times and although the slick ball was dropped by almost every player on the field, he helped cost us the GB game, but what about the games he helped us win? He single handedly beat the Vikings. And he played very strong in 7 of the 8 wins. Not to mention 3 of the losses.

I don’t understand the thought process behind thinking that a QB must throw 285 yards and complete 82% of his passes while throwing 2 TD passes every week in order for it to be a good game. One Int every 3 weeks is all that’s acceptable. QB’s have bad games.

[jdbillsfan]

This is crazy talk. This is his first season with the bills and in this offense. He did have some off games, but I think some of that can be attributed to coaching/gilbride etc. There are so many factors in each game that can be analyzed such as adjustments and play calling.

The players like playing for Drew, it helps to bring in new players as FA's (T. Spikes mentioned Bledsoe as a reason the Bills are an attractive team to play for)

I was frustrated in some games, mainly Green Bay and NE, but I am hoping the team and coaches make adjustments. It was the first season with the coordinator and QB. I don't think that we need to spend time picking apart OUR QB and saying we are better off without him. Drew isn't the cause of all of our problems on offense, but he isn't going to point out a missed block, route or dropped ball.

It seems to be a good trade for both teams, with I feel Buffalo getting the better end of the deal. Draw up some quick moving plays, slants, screens, run the ball and throw deep. Drew and the bills will be fine.

[RedEyE]

NE - will have a lot of picks in this years draft. if I'm not mistaken, the Terry Glenn deal for a 2002 performance with GB also earned them another 2nd or 3rd round pick.

[itsandthings]

The Glenn pick was conditional (no pick, a 4th, 3rd, or 2nd) based on his performance and he only met the incentives for a 4th round pick. The Pats also have addition picks in the 5th (draft day trade with Dallas last year) and 7th (trade with St. Louis for OT Grant Williams) rounds.

Thus, the Pats have 11 picks overall:

2 - 1st round
1 - 2nd round
1 - 3rd round
2 - 4th round
2 - 5th round
1 - 6th round
2 - 7th round

If they get any compensation picks, they will be in the late rounds.

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by itsandthings
The Glenn pick was conditional (no pick, a 4th, 3rd, or 2nd) based on his performance and he only met the incentives for a 4th round pick. The Pats also have addition picks in the 5th (draft day trade with Dallas last year) and 7th (trade with St. Louis for OT Grant Williams) rounds.

Thus, the Pats have 11 picks overall:

2 - 1st round
1 - 2nd round
1 - 3rd round
2 - 4th round
2 - 5th round
1 - 6th round
2 - 7th round

If they get any compensation picks, they will be in the late rounds.
:up:
Thanks Itsandthings! I knew the Patsies received some sort of compensation but couldn't remember what.

[Dozerdog]

Originally posted by Halbert

A. Both teams made out well. NE couldn't keep both and Brady has shown he's starting calibre material. They get a #14 pick and rid themselves of locker room tension.

B. Overall the Bills got a much better return because they needed it much more. While the Pats rid themselves of a problem-in-waiting, the Bills got a rock solid veteran leader who will steady a young and emerging team while also winning 2-3 games completely on his own during the season. The Pats did well but the Bills did great on that deal simply because they had more to lose by not doing it.

C. I personally would put the likelihood of a #14 pick ever reaching the status of Bledsoe at 50% - at best. The spot is likely to produce a solid contributor but not necessarily a multi-probowl player and certainly not a SB calibre QB.

D. Add to that the fact that NE kicked in a significant portion of Drew's salary and the deal looks even better.

E. Whatever liabilities Drew had in his previous seasons, and he did, will fade as he continues to mature and improve. A mobile QB's non-throwing skills erode quickly - a statue like Bledsoe has much less to lose and thus will improve more significantly and consistently with more years of experience. It is entirely likely that his best years are ahead of him.

Bottom line: NE had no choice and yet did pretty well. Buffalo gets a definite franchise QB for the next 6-8 years. I can't see how anyone could possible give the edge to anyone but the Bills on this deal. :up:

We get a pro bowl qb, they get a #14 in a weak draft and a 7 million cap hit. I'd sign on the doted line every time.

[RedEyE]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
:up:

We get a pro bowl qb, they get a #14 in a weak draft and a 7 million cap hit. I'd sign on the doted line every time.

Good point Dozer ~ I forgot that they're still paying for Bledsoe's services.