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Don Cherry
08-06-2005, 08:29 PM
Just hear me out for a minute-


Before I go into this- let me state the following-


1) Because of ownership and money issues with the Sabres I am willing to give R & R some slack in running/coaching this team


2) I have been mystified with the lack of players signed. Teppo Neuminnen is a good addition, a solid Defenseman. But that's been it.


After looking at the free agent tracker on the other thread I posted, I noticed some teams signing players left and right. Sure, they get some big names in big markets- but I'm also noticing that some of these teams are creeping toward the $25-$30 million mark on this early feeding frenzy but are only about half-stocked. They still have significant RFA's to sign, or will have to start chopping players/trading players off.

My guess is that there are

1) Players that you want to jettison immediatly based on salary/ age/production/health. (Example- John LeClair- Philly)

2) Players you are hanging on too as insurance in case you fail to sign that big name guy you had your eyes on. If you get that prized free agent, then you can jettison the insurance (See Jeremy Roenik- Philly- traded after Forsberg signed)

3) Guys you don't want to get rid of, but will hang on too until you have to let them go/trade them because you have to trim down to meet the cap.


I see a lot of teams out there with #2 and #3. Tampa for instance. (Boy- did they ever pick the worst time to win a Cup) , Ottawa, & Philly just to name a few.

Once they try to fill out their rosters with their own RFA's- you could see them tight with the cap with no future cap wiggle room. Tampa and Philly both intrigue me in particular, Neither has a solid #1 Goalie under contract.

I can see a number of teams trying to fill holes and reduce their payroll by dealing some quality players- who may be signed to some decent deals.


This better be part of the grand Reiger plan, because the silence has been deafaning so far at One Seymour H. Knox III Plaza.

SkateZilla
08-06-2005, 08:36 PM
good theory,

wait till teams hit the cap and start trading players away for next to nothing..

chernobylwraiths
08-06-2005, 08:55 PM
Trading players will still mean you have to take on their salaries. This might be a good theory, but I still don't see our management as smart enough to think of it.

JD
08-06-2005, 09:12 PM
You know what, I think the man is right. This must be the plan afterall....

SabreEleven
08-06-2005, 09:14 PM
Trading players will still mean you have to take on their salaries. This might be a good theory, but I still don't see our management as smart enough to think of it.
And once they take on these salaries, they will be over there precious $30 million mark, so basically they won't be taking them on.

Don Cherry
08-06-2005, 09:17 PM
Trading players will still mean you have to take on their salaries. This might be a good theory, but I still don't see our management as smart enough to think of it.
With free agents, you are competing with some teams - that drives the salary up. With a trade- you know what the deal is- and with the 24% roll back if it's a good salary- then make a deal.



But if a team like Philly or Ottawa. Philly probably won't go over $35 million - so they can have injury/trade deadline flexibility at the deadline to make the deals to win a Cup. They still need a Goalie- I can see a Mikka Nooronen for Sami Kapanen or Marty Biron for Simon Gagne or Michael Handzus sort of deal.

Ottawa has a lot of really good players still unsigned as RFA's- Havlat, Hossa, Spezza- which will push them way over $30 million. Some team might be able to shake a decent vet at a decent price from them- Like a Chris Phillips.


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=627 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=stitle>Ottawa Senators</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE class=fchartbkg cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=0 width=627 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=ftitlerow width=150>Player</TD><TD class=ftitlerow align=left width=275>Contract Notes</TD><TD class=ftitlerow align=right width=202>2005-2006 Salary (US)</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Daniel Alfredsson</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$4,662,894</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Zdeno Chara</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$3.724 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Wade Redden</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$3.724 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Greg de Vries</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$2.28 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Bryan Smolinski</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$2.242 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Chris Phillips</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$1.976 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Dominik Hasek</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$1.52 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Vaclav Varada</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$1.216 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Peter Schaefer</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$988,000</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Brian Pothier</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$532,000</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Denis Hamel</TD><TD class=brick align=left>Re-signed UFA (Ottawa)</TD><TD class=brick align=right>Undisclosed</TD></TR><TR><TD class=ftitlerow align=left>11 Players</TD><TD class=ftitlerow align=left>1 Salary Undisclosed</TD><TD class=ftitlerow align=right>$22,864,894</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=3 width=627 bgColor=#fbf4ea border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Restricted Free Agents: Ray Emery, Mike Fisher, Martin Havlat, Andrew Hedlund, Marian Hossa, Chris Kelly, Brian McGratton, Chris Neil, Christoph Schubert, Jason Spezza, Antoine Vermette, Anton Volchenkov.
Unrestricted Free Agents: Peter Bondra, Curtis Leschyshyn, Todd Simpson, Shaun Van Allen, Rob Ray, Jesse Fibiger, Pat Kavanagh, Denis Hamel, Josh Langfeld, Martin Prusek, Charlie Stephens.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>



<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=627 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=stitle width=39>http://www.tsn.ca/images/elements/mini-chev2.gif</TD><TD class=stitle>Philadelphia Flyers</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE class=fchartbkg cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=0 width=627 border=0><TBODY><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=ftitlerow width=150>Player</TD><TD class=ftitlerow align=left width=275>Contract Notes</TD><TD class=ftitlerow align=right width=202>2005-2006 Salary (US)</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Peter Forsberg</TD><TD class=brick align=left>UFA (Colorado)</TD><TD class=brick align=right>$5.75 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Mike Rathje</TD><TD class=brick align=left>UFA (San Jose)</TD><TD class=brick align=right>$3.5 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Derian Hatcher</TD><TD class=brick align=left>UFA (Detroit)</TD><TD class=brick align=right>$3.5 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Keith Primeau</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$3.42 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Eric Desjardins</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$2.28 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Michal Handzus</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$2.128 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Donald Brashear</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$1.748 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Mike Knuble</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$1.52 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Sami Kapanen</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$1.52 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Turner Stevenson</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$1.254 million</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Joni Pitkanen</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$900,600</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Mattias Timander</TD><TD class=brick align=left> </TD><TD class=brick align=right>$608,000</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Chris Therien</TD><TD class=brick align=left>UFA (Dallas)</TD><TD class=brick align=right>$500,000</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Jon Sim</TD><TD class=brick align=left>UFA (Pittsburgh)</TD><TD class=brick align=right>$450,000</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Jeff Carter</TD><TD class=brick align=left>Signed rookie deal</TD><TD class=brick align=right>Undisclosed</TD></TR><TR bgColor=#fbf4ea><TD class=brick>Mike Richards</TD><TD class=brick align=left>Signed rookie deal</TD><TD class=brick align=right>Undisclosed</TD></TR><TR><TD class=ftitlerow align=left>14 Players</TD><TD class=ftitlerow align=left>2 Salaries Undisclosed</TD><TD class=ftitlerow align=right>$29,078,600</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

<TABLE cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=3 width=627 bgColor=#fbf4ea border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top>Restricted Free Agents: Robert Esche, Simon Gagne, Kim Johnsson, Randy Jones, Freddy Meyer, David Printz, Branko Radivojevic, Dennis Seidenberg, Patrick Sharp, Wade Skolney.
Unrestricted Free Agents: John LeClair (Bought Out), Sean Burke, Jeff Hackett, Claude Lapointe, Marcus Ragnarsson, John Slaney, Boyd Kane, Neil Little, Ryan Ready, Nick Deschenes, Jeff Smith, Radovan Somik, Peter White.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

SkateZilla
08-06-2005, 10:41 PM
NHL.com Doesnt List all Free Agensts, Free and REstricted for nothing :)

BuffaloRanger
08-07-2005, 06:25 PM
The truth is Darcy was walking around shellshocked (from a friend who saw him) those first couple days of FA. He just couldn't believe that teams were signing players for that much money. He thought he'd be able to sweep in and sign stars for 2 mil a season.

So obviously the Sabres front office is reeling and is in some serious damage control right now. Don Cherry (the thread starter) is probably more forward thinking than Darcy at the moment. Plan B is wait to see what scraps fall off the tables of teams that will make the playoffs. Don't get your hopes up for a player like Gagne or Spezza, etc. You'll just be bitterly disappointed again.

Canadian'eh!
08-07-2005, 06:33 PM
For hockey info you should go to www.tsn.ca (http://www.tsn.ca)

It's not great for other sports newsw IMO, but they do have the best hockey coverage for sure.

camelcowboy
08-07-2005, 06:55 PM
Bondra and Selanne still available

Typ0
08-07-2005, 09:13 PM
I like your thinking don...another thing people should consider is we really don't know what we have right now...many of our players are young and haven't even practiced together in a year. It's great to sign a big player...but will that player be the right guy to fill the gaps that you need filled? It's impossible to tell when you aren't sure who or what's going to show up...so jumping the gun right now might not be the best move. Once we really see what we need then we will have a good chance to go out there and get it.

chernobylwraiths
08-07-2005, 10:46 PM
Well, the fans don't really care if he fits into the system. The fans, who have to buy the tickets by the way, want to see some action by the team showing that they are looking to improve and get better. With the slew of FA, and HUGE name FAs that were available, signing a big name is almost imperative to show the fans that they are serious.

All the front office has shown is that they don't want to pay even 25% under what we WERE going to pay for Satan and let him go for NOTHING when we could have gotten at least SOMETHING for him in a trade. Like all the talk of getting someone like Thornton where we would have to give up someone big, well that could have been Satan.

What I think will happen? We will get another Teppo type guy or two before everything is all over. A guy with a name, but far from a superstar and far from his prime. I wouldn't be surprised with another Bob Corkum type deal or two as well.

clumping platelets
08-07-2005, 10:54 PM
Sami Kapanen :up:

Simon Gagne :down:

chernobylwraiths
08-07-2005, 10:56 PM
Sami Kapanen :up:

Simon Gagne :down:

Kim Johnson (sp?) :up:

clumping platelets
08-07-2005, 10:58 PM
Every team needs Bob Corkum types. One example would be the re-signing of James Patrick.

chernobylwraiths
08-07-2005, 11:08 PM
Every team needs Bob Corkum types. One example would be the re-signing of James Patrick.

Yeah, I know, but you don't need, nor can you win consistantly with a roster full of them. Especially if these "new rules" take effect like they should.

Dozerdog
08-07-2005, 11:14 PM
Well, the fans don't really care if he fits into the system. The fans, who have to buy the tickets by the way, want to see some action by the team showing that they are looking to improve and get better. With the slew of FA, and HUGE name FAs that were available, signing a big name is almost imperative to show the fans that they are serious.

All the front office has shown is that they don't want to pay even 25% under what we WERE going to pay for Satan and let him go for NOTHING when we could have gotten at least SOMETHING for him in a trade. Like all the talk of getting someone like Thornton where we would have to give up someone big, well that could have been Satan.

What I think will happen? We will get another Teppo type guy or two before everything is all over. A guy with a name, but far from a superstar and far from his prime. I wouldn't be surprised with another Bob Corkum type deal or two as well.

I guess the Sabres will just be loosers then because we don't get that flashy name for 4-5 million.

chernobylwraiths
08-07-2005, 11:19 PM
I guess the Sabres will just be loosers then because we don't get that flashy name for 4-5 million.

No, I think the Sabres will be losers because they have an idiot at both GM and coach.

Some of those big flashy names are actually very good players and could help a team that is in need of scoring. I didn't like Satan much either, but just letting him walk when you could keep him for at least what many other teams would pay to get him was just ridiculous and I think showed how poorly mismanaged this team really is.

Dozerdog
08-07-2005, 11:21 PM
Don- looks like other clubs are following a similar path

Teams who haven't signed any UFA's-

Ottawa
Tampa
Washington
San Jose
Vancouver (only their own guys)

Teams that have signed 1 UFA of the Teppo Neuminnen variety

Pheonix (Boucher)
Montreal (Dandinealt) and they signed some of their own guys
Toronto (Allison)

chernobylwraiths
08-07-2005, 11:27 PM
Don- looks like other clubs are following a similar path

Teams who haven't signed any UFA's-

Ottawa
Tampa
Washington
San Jose
Vancouver (only their own guys)

Teams that have signed 1 UFA of the Teppo Neuminnen variety

Pheonix (Boucher)
Montreal (Dandinealt) and they signed some of their own guys
Toronto (Allison)

Don't many of these teams have a problem with getting their own guys signed? Ottawa has Hossa, Spezza, Hasek. Tampa has Lecalvier, St. Louis and now a goalie, Toronto has Sundin, Nolan, etc.

I think Washington is the only team like us, and THEY got Ovechkin.

I'll stick with my first statement, this might be the reasoning behind some of the teams not overbidding, but I doubt it is the Sabres reasoning. I really think they thought the market would be much lower and not as fast.

Don Cherry
08-07-2005, 11:32 PM
Don't many of these teams have a problem with getting their own guys signed? Ottawa has Hossa, Spezza, Hasek. Tampa has Lecalvier, St. Louis and now a goalie, Toronto has Sundin, Nolan, etc.

I think Washington is the only team like us, and THEY got Ovechkin.

I'll stick with my first statement, this might be the reasoning behind some of the teams not overbidding, but I doubt it is the Sabres reasoning. I really think they thought the market would be much lower and not as fast.Washington has 7 players under contract- and 1 have never set foot in the NHL- a total of 7 million committed to players.

As far as the Sabres go, they have 18 of their own guys that are RFA's but have not signed their deals yet- Pyatt is the only one.

Typ0
08-08-2005, 12:19 AM
Well, the fans don't really care if he fits into the system. The fans, who have to buy the tickets by the way, want to see some action by the team showing that they are looking to improve and get better. With the slew of FA, and HUGE name FAs that were available, signing a big name is almost imperative to show the fans that they are serious.

All the front office has shown is that they don't want to pay even 25% under what we WERE going to pay for Satan and let him go for NOTHING when we could have gotten at least SOMETHING for him in a trade. Like all the talk of getting someone like Thornton where we would have to give up someone big, well that could have been Satan.

What I think will happen? We will get another Teppo type guy or two before everything is all over. A guy with a name, but far from a superstar and far from his prime. I wouldn't be surprised with another Bob Corkum type deal or two as well.


a lot of fans don't really care right now because they are blow hards...yeah you're right a big signing would make a difference to the blow hards...but they are the same people who are going to be happier if the team is winning in March because we have the right people on the ice. Just grabbing someone to appease the fans is very short sighted. I agree someone who will make the team better should be signed...but just signing someone for the sake of making a signing to appease these fans would be a mistake by management.

Dozerdog
08-08-2005, 12:26 AM
Same knee jerk reaction when Tom Donahoe let go Pat Williams and Jonas Jennings, and didn't grab some big name in the first month of NFL free agency.

BuffaloRanger
08-08-2005, 12:48 AM
It is biggest offseason in NHL history considering the number of player moves. The Sabres haven't made the playoffs in 3 seasons. They have cried for years about wanting cost certainty. Now they have it. This was a golden opportunity for them to sign some great players (like maybe an all-star, since the sabres don't have one on their roster). But what happens? They just lost their best Dman and Forward for nothing.

This is far from a knee jerk reaction. This far in to FA fans would expect the Sabres to be improved. Hence the disappointment.

PS: Donahoe has left the Bills very thin at LT. Their isn't a player on their roster that played LT last season. Wouldn't it be nice if your LT didn't have to learn/relearn the position? That is a huge gamble.