Clements isn't elite in play, pay

[vicmantak]

By JERRY SULLIVAN

Yes, an elite NFL cornerback is hard to find. The league has gone pass-crazy, and the market for a top corner has risen accordingly. But if I were Bills President and General Manager Tom Donahoe, I'd think long and hard before opening the vault for Nate Clements.

Clements has some of the credentials of an elite cornerback. He has 18 interceptions in his four seasons in Buffalo. A few actually came against competent NFL passers. If you base a defensive back's value solely on pickoffs, he's in the same class as Champ Bailey, who commanded an $18 million signing bonus from the Broncos.

But Clements isn't in Bailey's class. He's a good player and a proven playmaker, but he's not an elite shut-down corner. Managing an NFL payroll is a delicate task. Donahoe hates overpaying for players; he should be careful about investing too much in Clements. No doubt, Donahoe will try to sign Clements early, as he did last year with Aaron Schobel.

Donahoe should offer Clements a signing bonus in the $11 million to $12 million range. That's similar to what Ken Lucas got from the Panthers and Anthony Henry from the Cowboys in recent free-agent signings. It's not elite money, but it might be enough to keep Clements off the market come March.

Clements says he's as good as any corner in the game. He seems determined to wait and sign with the highest bidder. Good for him. Most NFL players get one chance at the big bucks. Someone will pay him more than he's worth. Let it be someone other than Buffalo.

[Pride]

I fully agree...

Clements is NOT a top level CB in this league! Sure, his ability is unmatched... but he makes boneheaded plays at crucial times way too often.

If I was coaching in the SuperBowl against Randy Moss... and we are up by 4 with 2 minutes in the game... I DO NOT feel secure knowing Clements is covering him!

[Novacane]

I agree. If he's determined to get champ bailey money then let him walk.

[OpIv37]

I agree. If he's determined to get champ bailey money then let him walk.

but franchise him so we can extort a high price from whoever does sign him.

[casdhf]

but franchise him so we can extort a high price from whoever does sign him.
Good call, aren't you supposed to be in rico?

[OpIv37]

Good call, aren't you supposed to be in rico?

we leave early tomorrow morning.

[The King]

Clements is my least favorite player on the Bills. He is a solid corner, but he lacks the two things that could make him great. Leadership and Intellegence. You look at guys like Vincent and Milloy and how much respect they command on the field. Clements isn't even their league. He focuses too much on being a household name, and not enough on making the play. The raw ability is there no doubt, but Ryan Leaf had raw ability too. Its all how you use it.

I would like to keep Nate, but I really want to see him mature as a player. Just because he is getting recognition now doesn't mean he is too good to learn from the veterans he plays every down next to.

[Tatonka]

champ bailey got his lunch ate up by jerry porter last season for 3 tds when the raiders killed the broncos.

no cornerback is elite.. they are all going to get burned.. and no one should feel comfortable against randy moss, no matter who is covering him.

bottom line is.. nate is as good as any cb in the league right now.

[ublinkwescore]

I have to agree with Tatonka - Nate is vital to this team both on D and Special teams - Terrence McGee shifting to #1 doesn't make me too comfortable regardless of whether or not Troy Vincent gets pullled from safety if we lose Clements.

To tell you the truth, comparing Bailey to Clements is kinda whack - Bailey stunk it up last season - Clements however made many, many plays and rarely got burned. Clements owned Chad Johnson all day against the Bengals too. We're gonna need his kind of coverage if we're gonna take the next step.

[alohabillsfan]

I agree he is a very good corner but you cannot mortgage the future on 1 player (see Patriots plan) if we pay huge dollars to nate don't complain that we cut Eric, lose Sam, and have zero dollars for the coveted LT everybody wants. I say franchise him trade ( AKA peerless) him for a 1st and a 3rd or 4th and then draft a DB and DT in the 1st round next year!

[mysticsoto]

I have to agree with Tatonka - Nate is vital to this team both on D and Special teams - Terrence McGee shifting to #1 doesn't make me too comfortable regardless of whether or not Troy Vincent gets pullled from safety if we lose Clements.

To tell you the truth, comparing Bailey to Clements is kinda whack - Bailey stunk it up last season - Clements however made many, many plays and rarely got burned. Clements owned Chad Johnson all day against the Bengals too. We're gonna need his kind of coverage if we're gonna take the next step.
I'd like to keep NC myself, but not at Champ Bailey type money. That just kills us in terms of what we can do. And given that in 2007, alot of players will become FAs, I don't want to go into rebuilding mode just to keep Nate. Franchise him if we have to for next year and sign everyone else that we need to sign. This is a team and it can't be all about what one player wants...

[ublinkwescore]

who says we have to give him champ bailey type of money?

are there gonna be any other top 10 corners that will be on the market?

if there are, that could drive his price down. Not to mention how deep will the draft be at CB?

[Tatonka]

this is the most rational arguement i have seen ublink make.

[ublinkwescore]

You don't see too many of my posts then.

[Jan Reimers]

One thing is for sure: TD will not overpay. Just look at Schobel, whom he re-signed at a very reasonable price, versus JJ and Fat Pat, whose ridiculous demands had to be met elsewhere.

[colin]

who says we have to give him champ bailey type of money?

are there gonna be any other top 10 corners that will be on the market?

if there are, that could drive his price down. Not to mention how deep will the draft be at CB?

i disagree completely.

clements is a top 3 corner in the NFL.

Sulivan just pulled an idea out of his ass, if he says clements gets burned too much or more than baily, where are his numbers or example to back it up?

Woodson and Baily are the top 2 corners in pay and fame. They get burned REGULARLY, i'd say more than clements does.

if sullivan wants to bring up clements not winning the game against the jags, does he have any friggin clue how many games woodson and bailey played in where they just bent over late?

That fact that Lucas got 12 bucks upfront shows that nate will prolly get 15-20ish.

it is a lot, but we have to ask ourselves how much worse off will we be with someone else there? also, nate hits and is never injured, that is worth something right there

[Bert102176]

I think he will wanna stay and I think we keep him at a reasonable price, at least I'm hoping that cause we need him bad

[Schobel94]

HAVE to kepp Clements. Who's going to start in his place? That would be such a downgrade that it would really hurt our D. Nate IS that good, just as good as any other corner in the league.

Donahoe does not like overpaying players, true, but when they deserve it he's not shy of giving them top dollar like Moulds and Spikes. He'll re-sign Nate becuase he has no other choice. It will be expensive but it's OK every once in a while.

Ever thought of why we let Winfield, Jennings, Williams, and Price go? It's so we'd have enough moeny to sign really good players like Clements. The money is there to be spent, it doesn't help us to have extra money lying around.

[Crisis]

Nate was the best cornerback in the league the last half of the year. He's a crucial part of our defense.

Am I the only one worried with having McGee and Thomas/King starting at corner?

[justasportsfan]

Take away Clements INT's against Miami, his nos are nothing but average. He makes his living playing against the fins. I'd like for him to step up against teams like the Pats.

[Crisis]

Take away Clements INT's against Miami, his nos are nothing but average. He makes his living playing against the fins. I'd like for him to step up against teams like the Pats.
I posted this on finheaven awhile ago.

Here are the stats of the #1 WRs of each team that Clements faced.

Week 1 - Jimmy Smith - 4 recepts, 83 yards. (INT)
Week 2 - Joey Porter - 3 recepts, 45 yards.
Week 4 - David Givens - 4 recepts, 86 yards.
Week 5 - Santana Moss - 2 recepts, 62 yards. (FF)
Week 6 - Chris Chambers - 3 recepts, 23 yards.
Week 7 - Travis Taylor - 2 recepts, 52 yards.
Week 8 - Anquain Boldin - 4 recepts, 50 yards. (SACK)
Week 9 - Santana Moss - 6 recepts, 157 yards. (McGee was covering Moss when he broke a big score to inflate his yard total, and Clements covered McCaries for part of the game, who was 2-27.
Week 10 - David Givens - 5 recepts, 66 yards. (INT)
Week 11 - Torry Holt - 8 recepts, 90 yards. (FF, Punt return TD) - A decent game for Clements, but Bulger also had 45 attempts in the game.
Week 12 - D. Jackson - 4 recepts, 45 yards.
Week 13 - Chris Chambers - 5 recepts, 49 yards. (INT)
Week 14 - Antonio Bryant - 4 recepts, 37 yards. (INT) Most of Bryant's yardage came in garbage time, the Browns had negative offensive yards until late in the 4th quarter.
Week 15 - Chad Johnson - 2 recepts, 10 yards. (FF) Clements shuts down the league's leader in receptions (at the time) to 2 receptions for 10 yards.
Week 16 - Brandon Lloyd - 2 recepts, 25 yards. (INT)
Week 17 - Hines Ward - 2 recepts, 11 yards. (INT for TD)

[Pride]

I take back everything I said about him.. those stats do support his case of being an elite CB. Wow... I am actually amazed by that!

[Tatonka]

excellent work crisis.

we dont need to even debate it anymore.

[justasportsfan]

I posted this on finheaven awhile ago.

Here are the stats of the #1 WRs of each team that Clements faced.

Week 1 - Jimmy Smith - 4 recepts, 83 yards. (INT)
Week 2 - Joey Porter - 3 recepts, 45 yards.
Week 4 - David Givens - 4 recepts, 86 yards.
Week 5 - Santana Moss - 2 recepts, 62 yards. (FF)
Week 6 - Chris Chambers - 3 recepts, 23 yards.
Week 7 - Travis Taylor - 2 recepts, 52 yards.
Week 8 - Anquain Boldin - 4 recepts, 50 yards. (SACK)
Week 9 - Santana Moss - 6 recepts, 157 yards. (McGee was covering Moss when he broke a big score to inflate his yard total, and Clements covered McCaries for part of the game, who was 2-27.
Week 10 - David Givens - 5 recepts, 66 yards. (INT)
Week 11 - Torry Holt - 8 recepts, 90 yards. (FF, Punt return TD) - A decent game for Clements, but Bulger also had 45 attempts in the game.
Week 12 - D. Jackson - 4 recepts, 45 yards.
Week 13 - Chris Chambers - 5 recepts, 49 yards. (INT)
Week 14 - Antonio Bryant - 4 recepts, 37 yards. (INT) Most of Bryant's yardage came in garbage time, the Browns had negative offensive yards until late in the 4th quarter.
Week 15 - Chad Johnson - 2 recepts, 10 yards. (FF) Clements shuts down the league's leader in receptions (at the time) to 2 receptions for 10 yards.
Week 16 - Brandon Lloyd - 2 recepts, 25 yards. (INT)
Week 17 - Hines Ward - 2 recepts, 11 yards. (INT for TD)Any chance that our blitzing schemes and lb's have help pad his ability to lock down wr's?

don't get me wrong, I think he's great and we need to lock him up but he does need to step up against the pats and not just keep creating to's against the fins only.

[Crisis]

Any chance that our blitzing schemes and lb's have help pad his ability to lock down wr's?

don't get me wrong, I think he's great and we need to lock him up but he does need to step up against the pats and not just keep creating to's against the fins only.
Chris McAlister plays with one of the best LB cores in the league and plays in one of the best secondaries in the league. He's still an elite corner.

Last year IMO was Clements huge step. If he wouldn't of made that one stupid play against Jimmy Smith last year this wouldn't be a debate.

Only 1 of his 6 INTs last year was vs the Phins. One was against the Pats. Anyone who can hold Porter and Johnson to a combined 5 recepts for 55 yards is a keeper. Hell, only two WRs last year got over 5 or more receptions on him. Can McGee do that? Hell no. we have no replacement for someone of Clement's caliber. He's not a player you can let walk without suffering a huge loss.

[don137]

I posted this on finheaven awhile ago.

Here are the stats of the #1 WRs of each team that Clements faced.

Week 1 - Jimmy Smith - 4 recepts, 83 yards. (INT)
Week 2 - Joey Porter - 3 recepts, 45 yards.
Week 4 - David Givens - 4 recepts, 86 yards.
Week 5 - Santana Moss - 2 recepts, 62 yards. (FF)
Week 6 - Chris Chambers - 3 recepts, 23 yards.
Week 7 - Travis Taylor - 2 recepts, 52 yards.
Week 8 - Anquain Boldin - 4 recepts, 50 yards. (SACK)
Week 9 - Santana Moss - 6 recepts, 157 yards. (McGee was covering Moss when he broke a big score to inflate his yard total, and Clements covered McCaries for part of the game, who was 2-27.
Week 10 - David Givens - 5 recepts, 66 yards. (INT)
Week 11 - Torry Holt - 8 recepts, 90 yards. (FF, Punt return TD) - A decent game for Clements, but Bulger also had 45 attempts in the game.
Week 12 - D. Jackson - 4 recepts, 45 yards.
Week 13 - Chris Chambers - 5 recepts, 49 yards. (INT)
Week 14 - Antonio Bryant - 4 recepts, 37 yards. (INT) Most of Bryant's yardage came in garbage time, the Browns had negative offensive yards until late in the 4th quarter.
Week 15 - Chad Johnson - 2 recepts, 10 yards. (FF) Clements shuts down the league's leader in receptions (at the time) to 2 receptions for 10 yards.
Week 16 - Brandon Lloyd - 2 recepts, 25 yards. (INT)
Week 17 - Hines Ward - 2 recepts, 11 yards. (INT for TD)


:goodpost: Very nicely done...Heck I think even Peerless Price scored against Champ Bailey last year...

[finsrclowns]

I think Clements is better than Champ Bailey right now and he's just entering his prime. Sign him to any deal within reason you can. My dog watches the games with me and I'm pretty sure she knows more about football than Jerry Sullivan.

[STAMPY]

champ bailey got his lunch ate up by jerry porter last season for 3 tds when the raiders killed the broncos.

no cornerback is elite.. they are all going to get burned.. and no one should feel comfortable against randy moss, no matter who is covering him.

bottom line is.. nate is as good as any cb in the league right now.

that game was played in a field full of snow. the defender was at a disadvantage.

[colin]

see,

this is why you can't just pull nuggets from your ass like he isn't that good or only makes plays against the fins (like making plays against our hated rival is a bad thing), or psuedo junk like our d does not "stop teams when it counts", like giving up a last minute desperation drive means jack when our O can't score more than friggin 10 points.

you have to be professional, look at things with detachment.

points to pride for seeing the light!!

just look at the plays clements makes, sacks, FF, INTs and scores, and he has been doing it EVERY FRIGGIN YEAR INCLUDING HIS ROOK YEAR!!

homerism causes some of us to overrate pukes like henry and wire (ok henry was a tough runner, but he isnt' near the top 10 in the NFL) and hate on thugs like Adams and Clements.

we even ***** all over players on the cusp, like Mike Williams and London Fletcher (some people think he is a run of the Mill LB), AND STOP SAYING WILLIAMS MAKES 8 BUCKS A YEAR!!! IT IS JUST THE BACK END OF A BACK LOADED CONTRACT!!

FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!!

/end rant

go bills

[Sportsuser101]

Clements is a top 3 cornerback in the league. Heck I may even put him as the best cornerback. Pay the man.

[Nasty Mcgahee]

First, Clements, on record said that he would like to finish his career in buffalo. He does NOT seemed determined to go out to the open market. Second why doesn't Sullivan use stats to make his point? Nates not too far off from Champ Bailey who, Jerry himself, brings into this argument. Nate has 209 tackles, 54 assists, 1.5 sacks, 18 interceptions for 261 yards 4 touchdowns and 34 pass deflections. Not too bad at all, but if you compare them to champ bailey's first four years in the NFL they look even better: Champ has 239 tackles, 19 assists, 1 sack, 16 interceptions for 121 yards, 1 TD and 55 Pass deflections.

If you go by stats these two look very similar, champ gets more pass deflections, and more tackles. Nate has more assisted tackles, sacks, more interceptions for more than double the amount of yards, and 4 times as many touchdowns.

Now, they look very similar to me -- Buffalo needs to sign clements, without him you will see a huge difference!

[Nasty Mcgahee]

Any chance that our blitzing schemes and lb's have help pad his ability to lock down wr's?

don't get me wrong, I think he's great and we need to lock him up but he does need to step up against the pats and not just keep creating to's against the fins only. So champ bailey was the only one on the field? Perhaps his linebackers had something to do with his numbers? And dont tell me they had no LB's

[LtBillsFan66]

champ bailey got his lunch ate up by jerry porter last season for 3 tds when the raiders killed the broncos.

no cornerback is elite.. they are all going to get burned.. and no one should feel comfortable against randy moss, no matter who is covering him.

bottom line is.. nate is as good as any cb in the league right now.
Took the words out of my mouth.

I think the only true "shutdown" corner I've ever seen (this will piss some people off) is Deion Sanders in his prime. Every other good-to-great corner gets burned from time to time. Cause Clements is in a Bills uniform and we all watch so intently, any mistake is remembered more than if you casually watch any other non-Bills game.