Dose of reality thread....

[OpIv37]

I've been getting a lot of negative reps from my criticism of this weekend's game. I'm not sure who they're from, but I'm guessing Fairway and Typo since they've had the most ardent responses to my posts.

I have to say this- some of you are in for a big disappointment this season. Consider the following:

1. Penalties in all 3 preseason games
2. 3 fumbles against Chicago- 3!!!!
3. Good running against Indy, average running against GB and poor running against Chicago- the O line sucks and isn't going to be able to take pressure off of JP. Also we have no depth, and we're pretty much hosed with one injury.
4. Ron Edwards is no Pat Williams
5. JP made some plays that can cost the game.

For those of you who think I'm being too hard on JP- I made one comment in an overall team criticism on Friday night and started one thread on Saturday after watching the game on NFL Network- everyone jumped on me about it so I felt the need to defend myself. All along everyone has said that all JP has to do is not lose games for us- I can think of at least 3 plays in preseason that JP made that would have cost us the game.

Again, I don't expect him to be mistake-free. Against GB, there was one play when he ran when a receiver was open, and another play when he threw to a covered man when there was 20 yards of open running room in front of him. Who cares? He's inexperienced- he'll learn. It's the plays where he flails around like Michael Vick in a whorehouse and runs 20 yards backwards or throws into triple coverage that have me really concerned, because those are the plays where he fails to "not lose". I don't want him benched because he needs experience- I'm just saying I don't think he's ready to get it done yet. If you think he is, you're in for a disappointment this year.

As far as Ron Edwards goes, show me one play in the last two preseason games (cuz those are the ones I still have) where he did something that was anything better than average. I haven't seen it yet and I've been trying to watch him as much as possible.

To those who say "there was no game plan": Game plans don't prevent penalties. Game plans don't keep the ball off the turf. Game plans don't prevent the offensive linemen from whiffing on blocks.

To those who say Chicago has a good D: News flash: we're going to have to run against teams with good D's to get into the playoffs. If we can't do it, we don't deserve to be there.

It comes down to this: I'm getting negged for judging Losman, Edwards and the rest of the team by what I saw on the field instead of being a homer and believing the hype. To some of you, ignorance is bliss.

Believe me- I HOPE I'm wrong. I hope we just had an off night or I'm being too judgemental, because all the problems I've seen can't be corrected in two weeks, and that's all the time we have. But come mid-November when we're struggling to stay at .500, I'm going to bump this thread with a big I TOLD YOU SO.

If I'm wrong, feel free to rip on me and neg me all you want when the time comes.

[Michael82]

Okay, after this thread and the way you ended it with the I told you so....

You have now earned your Wys nickname. :up:

Nice job. :clap:

[The_Philster]

Okay, after this thread and the way you ended it with the I told you so....You have now earned your Wys nickname. :up:Nice job. :clap:Ouch!!

[OpIv37]

Okay, after this thread and the way you ended it with the I told you so....

You have now earned your Wys nickname. :up:

Nice job. :clap:

oh come on now- I know I'm pessimistic like him but don't I have to repeat the same stat 40 times and come up with bizarre numbers like "if you ignore Losman's first 9 completions he was 0-9 on the day" before I get that nickname?

[feelthepain]

I've been getting a lot of negative reps from my criticism of this weekend's game. I'm not sure who they're from, but I'm guessing Fairway and Typo since they've had the most ardent responses to my posts.

I have to say this- some of you are in for a big disappointment this season. Consider the following:

1. Penalties in all 3 preseason games
2. 3 fumbles against Chicago- 3!!!!
3. Good running against Indy, average running against GB and poor running against Chicago- the O line sucks and isn't going to be able to take pressure off of JP. Also we have no depth, and we're pretty much hosed with one injury.
4. Ron Edwards is no Pat Williams
5. JP made some plays that can cost the game.




For those of you who think I'm being too hard on JP- I made one comment in an overall team criticism on Friday night and started one thread on Saturday after watching the game on NFL Network- everyone jumped on me about it so I felt the need to defend myself. All along everyone has said that all JP has to do is not lose games for us- I can think of at least 3 plays in preseason that JP made that would have cost us the game.

Again, I don't expect him to be mistake-free. Against GB, there was one play when he ran when a receiver was open, and another play when he threw to a covered man when there was 20 yards of open running room in front of him. Who cares? He's inexperienced- he'll learn. It's the plays where he flails around like Michael Vick in a whorehouse and runs 20 yards backwards or throws into triple coverage that have me really concerned, because those are the plays where he fails to "not lose". I don't want him benched because he needs experience- I'm just saying I don't think he's ready to get it done yet. If you think he is, you're in for a disappointment this year.

As far as Ron Edwards goes, show me one play in the last two preseason games (cuz those are the ones I still have) where he did something that was anything better than average. I haven't seen it yet and I've been trying to watch him as much as possible.

To those who say "there was no game plan": Game plans don't prevent penalties. Game plans don't keep the ball off the turf. Game plans don't prevent the offensive linemen from whiffing on blocks.

To those who say Chicago has a good D: News flash: we're going to have to run against teams with good D's to get into the playoffs. If we can't do it, we don't deserve to be there.

It comes down to this: I'm getting negged for judging Losman, Edwards and the rest of the team by what I saw on the field instead of being a homer and believing the hype. To some of you, ignorance is bliss.

Believe me- I HOPE I'm wrong. I hope we just had an off night or I'm being too judgemental, because all the problems I've seen can't be corrected in two weeks, and that's all the time we have. But come mid-November when we're struggling to stay at .500, I'm going to bump this thread with a big I TOLD YOU SO.

If I'm wrong, feel free to rip on me and neg me all you want when the time comes.
It's good to be realistic about your clubs ability. I know the Bills aren't as good as some here think and their not as bad as others think. It's only preseason and the Bills aren't really trying to win these preseason games. They are trying to see who plays best where and in the process they get beat on plays and miss assignments. It's what preseason is for. I think the fans that flip out when teams lose or act like SB contenders when their team wins are idots that don't understand the game or the process and purpose of pre season. I think if you can't understand preseason, then how on gods green earth are you going to understand the regular season?? Bill fans that bust my chops over a preseason game like it has anything to do with the regular season are the ones I'm talking about.

It's like they refuse to grasp the concept. Who cares what JP's numers are or how many yrds Willis runs for, the nubers or the results are nothing more then game film for the coaches to tweak and to use for strategy and seeing who stays and who goes. I think the real fans that understand football and the process involved in a season understand preseason is to get people up to playing speed and evaluating the new talent and creating matchups that will favor your team during the season. That's it, that's all.

[Meathead]

You have now earned your Wys nickname. :up:

Nice job. :clap:
Yes, but does he make the world's best wing sauce? I think not.

[OpIv37]

Okay, after this thread and the way you ended it with the I told you so....

You have now earned your Wys nickname. :up:

Nice job. :clap:

I must admit I'm starting to understand why Wys left. Granted he was overly critical, but every time someone points out a flaw in the team on this board, a bunch of homers close their eyes, put their index fingers in their ears and yell "LA LA LA LA" at the top of their lungs. Then the person who made the criticism gets accused of not being a "real" fan- it's pathetic.


It's good to be realistic about your clubs ability. I know the Bills aren't as good as some here think and their not as bad as others think. It's only preseason and the Bills aren't really trying to win these preseason games. They are trying to see who plays best where and in the process they get beat on plays and miss assignments. It's what preseason is for. I think the fans that flip out when teams lose or act like SB contenders when their team wins are idots that don't understand the game or the process and purpose of pre season. I think if you can't understand preseason, then how on gods green earth are you going to understand the regular season?? Bill fans that bust my chops over a preseason game like it has anything to do with the regular season are the ones I'm talking about.

It's like they refuse to grasp the concept. Who cares what JP's numers are or how many yrds Willis runs for, the nubers or the results are nothing more then game film for the coaches to tweak and to use for strategy and seeing who stays and who goes. I think the real fans that understand football and the process involved in a season understand preseason is to get people up to playing speed and evaluating the new talent and creating matchups that will favor your team during the season. That's it, that's all.

Good post but there are some problems that come to light in preseason that won't just magically disappear once the regular season starts- ie I haven't been following the Dolphins much this offseason, but I did hear that Feely had some problems with his accuracy. I'm sure you don't expect him to come in and throw perfect strikes every time once the games count.


Yes, but does he make the world's best wing sauce? I think not.

Not yet but I'm working on an industrial espionage strategy that will allow me to swipe Wy's recipes and sell them as my own at a discounted price by utilizing Indonesian slave labor in the production process.

[Michael82]

Yes, but does he make the world's best wing sauce? I think not.
True. Speaking of which....

Wys Wings will be at the Buffalo Wing Fest next weekend. I'm there! :hungry:

[Michael82]

okay OpIv....I think you have some good points, but I still say that we are seeing a very vanilla team in this PRESEASON and the OL is still gelling. I won't panic like you are until I see them in a couple regular games first.

I also believe without my rose colored glasses that the Bills are a lot better than you think and am so confident that they aren't going to struggle severely and suck like you say...that I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is...

I'll bet you 50,000 Zonebucks that the Bills will be 5-3 by the Bye week. I also am willing to do a cash bet if you want to do that too.

What little bit I've seen from this team has impressed me. JP Losman is struggling a bit, but he's a rookie. That's expected. Losman has done some stupid things, but his good has outweighed his bad. The left side of the line is brand new and they gotta gell together first. As for Ron Edwards, I feel you aren't giving him a chance, just like Wys never gave Sam Adams a chance and look at what happened there. :up:

Again, I see your cause for concern and am a little bit worried, but then I realize that it's only August 28th and the Bills are still playing meaningless games. The players themselves admit that they don't play their hardest. I bet that McGahee is one of those type players.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Pre-season games are often deceiving. So far I've seen threads bashing Edwards, Anderson, Lindell, Reed, our backup RB's, and of course, Losman. Why waste so much energy composing lengthy posts about how we are going to suck? What is accomplished? I can understand not wanting to set yourself up for disappointment, but you're kind of busting everyones orange in the process. You may be right, but you also may be wrong about a few things. We could suck or we could be good. I'll watch the games and see how it unfolds.

[Michael82]

Pre-season games are often deceiving. So far I've seen threads bashing Edwards, Anderson, Lindell, Reed, our backup RB's, and of course, Losman. Why waste so much energy composing lengthy posts about how we are going to suck? What is accomplished? I can understand not wanting to set yourself up for disappointment, but you're kind of busting everyones orange in the process. You may be right, but you also may be wrong about a few things. We could suck or we could be good. I'll watch the games and see how it unfolds.
Great post! :bf1:

:posrep:

[ParanoidAndroid]

The players themselves admit that they don't play their hardest. I bet that McGahee is one of those type players.
Exactly.

I saw the first two games and Willis didn't seem to be hitting the holes like he did during the season. I noticed that right away.<!-- / message -->

[OpIv37]

okay OpIv....I think you have some good points, but I still say that we are seeing a very vanilla team in this PRESEASON and the OL is still gelling. I won't panic like you are until I see them in a couple regular games first.

I also believe without my rose colored glasses that the Bills are a lot better than you think and am so confident that they aren't going to struggle severely and suck like you say...that I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is...

I'll bet you 50,000 Zonebucks that the Bills will be 5-3 by the Bye week. I also am willing to do a cash bet if you want to do that too.

What little bit I've seen from this team has impressed me. JP Losman is struggling a bit, but he's a rookie. That's expected. Losman has done some stupid things, but his good has outweighed his bad. The left side of the line is brand new and they gotta gell together first. As for Ron Edwards, I feel you aren't giving him a chance, just like Wys never gave Sam Adams a chance and look at what happened there. :up:

Again, I see your cause for concern and am a little bit worried, but then I realize that it's only August 28th and the Bills are still playing meaningless games. The players themselves admit that they don't play their hardest. I bet that McGahee is one of those type players.


I don't have 50,000 but make it 25,000 and you've got yourself a bet. No way we're 5-3 or better at the break. Again, this is a bet I WANT to lose, because I don't want to see us struggling. But based on what I've seen, I'm really concerned.

I do think we're better off with Losman than Bledsoe but I just think he needs another year.

[OpIv37]

Pre-season games are often deceiving. So far I've seen threads bashing Edwards, Anderson, Lindell, Reed, our backup RB's, and of course, Losman. Why waste so much energy composing lengthy posts about how we are going to suck? What is accomplished? I can understand not wanting to set yourself up for disappointment, but you're kind of busting everyones orange in the process. You may be right, but you also may be wrong about a few things. We could suck or we could be good. I'll watch the games and see how it unfolds.

I hope I'm wrong about a lot of things- I'm just calling like I see it, because like I already said, there are a lot of problems that become evident in preseason which won't magically go away once the real season starts.

[Meathead]

I'm working on an industrial espionage strategy that will allow me to swipe Wy's recipes and sell them as my own at a discounted price by utilizing Indonesian slave labor in the production process.
Reports out of Washington state that Wys has WMD and is trying to buy yellow cake from Africa so be careful.

btw - I'll be at the wing fest sometime next weekend but I'm just not sure when. My dad and I are playing in that TheDraft2005 FF league at the Seneca Casino and their events are Sat and Sun at 1-4. We'll probably go to Pilot field one of those two days afterwards.

btw2 - I thought it was very funny that in the promo ad on the wing fest website the Wys Wings text was much longer than the other products. lol.

[Meathead]

there are a lot of problems that become evident in preseason which won't magically go away once the real season starts.
Like you?

lol. j/k. I couldn't resist.

[Michael82]

I don't have 50,000 but make it 25,000 and you've got yourself a bet. No way we're 5-3 or better at the break. Again, this is a bet I WANT to lose, because I don't want to see us struggling. But based on what I've seen, I'm really concerned.

I do think we're better off with Losman than Bledsoe but I just think he needs another year.
25,000 ZBs for a 5-3 record or better. :D

You got yourself a deal. :shake:

[Dozerdog]

25,000 ZBs for a 5-3 record or better. :D

You got yourself a deal. :shake::rofl: ...says the guy with half that!

[Philagape]

Wake me up when the preseason is over. :snooze:

[Mad Bomber]

I've been getting a lot of negative reps from my criticism of this weekend's game. I'm not sure who they're from.
Donate a few bucks and become a silver, gold or platinum donor, and you'll always know who gives you reps, you cheap bastard! :D

[OpIv37]

apparently a bunch of people would rather neg me than admit this team has some flaws. Real mature, guys. At least a few had the guts to leave their names.

[SABURZFAN]

get used to the homers labeling you as Wys for team criticism.they expect you to look through the same rose-colored glasses they wear.

[Novacane]

get used to the homers labeling you as Wys for team criticism.they expect you to look through the same rose-colored glasses they wear.



No rose colored glasses here. Most of us expect JP to have his struggles. It just seems like OP is expecting him to be perfect.

[Novacane]

5. JP made some plays that can cost the game.
.


Have you been watching the last 2 years? You should be used to that from a Bills QB by now!

[The_Philster]

Have you been watching the last 2 years? You should be used to that from a Bills QB by now!2 years? Has there ever been a time a Bills QB didn't make a major negative play from time to time?

[Novacane]

I've been getting a lot of negative reps from my criticism of this weekend's game. I'm not sure who they're from, but I'm guessing Fairway and Typo since they've had the most ardent responses to my posts.
.


You guessed wrong.

[jpdex12]

I've been getting a lot of negative reps from my criticism of this weekend's game. I'm not sure who they're from, but I'm guessing Fairway and Typo since they've had the most ardent responses to my posts.

I have to say this- some of you are in for a big disappointment this season. Consider the following:

1. Penalties in all 3 preseason games
2. 3 fumbles against Chicago- 3!!!!
3. Good running against Indy, average running against GB and poor running against Chicago- the O line sucks and isn't going to be able to take pressure off of JP. Also we have no depth, and we're pretty much hosed with one injury.
4. Ron Edwards is no Pat Williams
5. JP made some plays that can cost the game.

For those of you who think I'm being too hard on JP- I made one comment in an overall team criticism on Friday night and started one thread on Saturday after watching the game on NFL Network- everyone jumped on me about it so I felt the need to defend myself. All along everyone has said that all JP has to do is not lose games for us- I can think of at least 3 plays in preseason that JP made that would have cost us the game.

Again, I don't expect him to be mistake-free. Against GB, there was one play when he ran when a receiver was open, and another play when he threw to a covered man when there was 20 yards of open running room in front of him. Who cares? He's inexperienced- he'll learn. It's the plays where he flails around like Michael Vick in a whorehouse and runs 20 yards backwards or throws into triple coverage that have me really concerned, because those are the plays where he fails to "not lose". I don't want him benched because he needs experience- I'm just saying I don't think he's ready to get it done yet. If you think he is, you're in for a disappointment this year.

As far as Ron Edwards goes, show me one play in the last two preseason games (cuz those are the ones I still have) where he did something that was anything better than average. I haven't seen it yet and I've been trying to watch him as much as possible.

To those who say "there was no game plan": Game plans don't prevent penalties. Game plans don't keep the ball off the turf. Game plans don't prevent the offensive linemen from whiffing on blocks.

To those who say Chicago has a good D: News flash: we're going to have to run against teams with good D's to get into the playoffs. If we can't do it, we don't deserve to be there.

It comes down to this: I'm getting negged for judging Losman, Edwards and the rest of the team by what I saw on the field instead of being a homer and believing the hype. To some of you, ignorance is bliss.

Believe me- I HOPE I'm wrong. I hope we just had an off night or I'm being too judgemental, because all the problems I've seen can't be corrected in two weeks, and that's all the time we have. But come mid-November when we're struggling to stay at .500, I'm going to bump this thread with a big I TOLD YOU SO.

If I'm wrong, feel free to rip on me and neg me all you want when the time comes.
:cry: :monkeyp:WHINERS :teary: How many fans cried like this when we used to go 0-4 in the preseason back in the early nineties and then land in the super bowl...four straight years?

[Novacane]

2 years? Has there ever been a time a Bills QB didn't make a major negative play from time to time?



I'm not going to answer a dumb question. I'll just say this. If you're saying drew only made negative plays from time to time you're the one with rose colored glasses

[Tatonka]

i started to read that but then saw that it was wys length.. and i have read everything that OP posted there about 10 times already since the preseason started.. and yet another thread about how jp cant get the job done..

i havent negged you yet, OP, but just for repetition of the same god damn point.. you deserve it.

we get the point.. you have no optimism about the upcoming season.. should be a blast for you to watch... being that your so smart to know that we have no chance to even finish .500 by the midpoint of the season.. hell.. being that your so smart and are able to predict the future.. not to mention you have so much nfl experience that you are able to gauge things like if the bills are showing their true offense or to know how exactly an nfl qb is supposed to place a ball to a wr.. then you should just go ahead and get a 2nd mortgage on your house, drive out to vegas.. and put your money where your mouth is.. you could be rich.. and since there is no way you could be wrong.. if you dont do it.. your really going to be disappointed when you happily get to say i "I TOLD YOU SO!" but you didnt make a fortune on your psychic abilities..

now please.. no more damn posts about it would be appreciated.. at least until the season starts and your incredible genius is proved to be true and all of us fans that have a shred of optimism about the season are crushed.. you can start 100 new threads and 1000 new posts then about how right you were.

[The_Philster]

First of all, If Drew made as many negative plays as you seem to think, why was he kept for so long.
Secondly..sounds like you're the one with rose-colored glasses..Drew was the only one who made negative plays in the Bills' history? :rofl: Or did you only start watching the Bills in 2003 and have no idea what happened throughout Bills history? This wasn't a defense of drew...we all know you hate his guts and won't give him credit for anything...but he's hardly the first QB to make negative plays

[Novacane]

First of all, If Drew made as many negative plays as you seem to think, why was he kept for so long.
Secondly..sounds like you're the one with rose-colored glasses..Drew was the only one who made negative plays in the Bills' history? :rofl: Or did you only start watching the Bills in 2003 and have no idea what happened throughout Bills history? This wasn't a defense of drew...we all know you hate his guts and won't give him credit for anything...but he's hardly the first QB to make negative plays



I Never said that :rolleyes:

[The_Philster]

I Never said that :rolleyes:No...but you refused to answer the question I posed..and harped only on the last 2 years under Drew...completely ignoring the point of my question

[Novacane]

Believe me- I HOPE I'm wrong. I hope we just had an off night or I'm being too judgemental, because all the problems I've seen can't be corrected in two weeks, and that's all the time we have. But come mid-November when we're struggling to stay at .500, I'm going to bump this thread with a big I TOLD YOU SO.

.


I believe you when you say you hope you're wrong. I'm not going to be like the jackasses who said the amigos were lying when we said we hoped Drew proved us wrong.

[Novacane]

You got me phil. I don't think Jimbo, Collins, RJ, Flutie, AVP or any other QB ever made any mistakes. :crazy: Only Drew. He is the only Bills QB to ever make a mistake. Yep..........that is exactly what I said :rolleyes:

[The_Philster]

You got me phil. I don't think Jimbo, Collins, RJ, Flutie, AVP or any other QB ever made any mistakes. :crazy: Only Drew. He is the only Bills QB to ever make a mistake. Yep..........that is exactly what I said :rolleyes:could've avoided being a smartass if you had answered the question I posed in the first place...;)

[Novacane]

let me simplify it for you. Is JP playing good enough for my liking? NO! Has he given us just as good of QB play as we had last year so far? imo...yes.

[Michael82]

:rofl: ...says the guy with half that!
I got a secret stash. :up:

[Typ0]

yo soy un amigo.

[Mr. Cynical]

The reality is that while yes this is the preseason, have we seen any explosiveness on offense for any period of time? Granted preseason is just a warm up for the regular season but even teams that have a losing record in the preseason have shown what they are capable of at certain points, e.g., Indy.

I'm with Op...I'm just not feeling it right now. While I don't think we will have a terrible season (not saying Op is saying that btw), I think we are probably in for another average year...8-8...and another non playoff season. Until our oline can protect and block, we aren't going to score consistently in this league.

[OpIv37]

i started to read that but then saw that it was wys length.. and i have read everything that OP posted there about 10 times already since the preseason started.. and yet another thread about how jp cant get the job done..

i havent negged you yet, OP, but just for repetition of the same god damn point.. you deserve it.


why don't you READ the post before you go ahead and criticize it? There was a lot more in there than just stuff about JP. As much as I'd like to feel optimistic about the season, what I saw on the field doesn't warrant it. To anyone who thinks it does, you may want to take a step back and consider if you're basing your opinion on your emotions or the facts. No one wants to go into a season thinking their team will do poorly and I think that sentiment is clouding the observational ability of you and others.

[mysticsoto]

why don't you READ the post before you go ahead and criticize it? There was a lot more in there than just stuff about JP. As much as I'd like to feel optimistic about the season, what I saw on the field doesn't warrant it. To anyone who thinks it does, you may want to take a step back and consider if you're basing your opinion on your emotions or the facts. No one wants to go into a season thinking their team will do poorly and I think that sentiment is clouding the observational ability of you and others.
Op, personally, I think you're overreacting, but you do tend to lean on the pessimistic side of things anyway - so I guess this is your style.

When the 1st string defense came off the field in the middle of the 3rd quarter, the score was 12-3. Could our offense have done better? Sure. I think the speed of the Bear's LBs and D-linemen were outclassing our Oline and blockers for McGahee. And we should already know and expect that if McGahee can't get it going, our offense will struggle. Those blocks need to be worked on - there's still time before the season starts.

A month ago, if I asked you what our preseason record was going to be...would you have told me 4-0 ???

[OpIv37]

Op, personally, I think you're overreacting, but you do tend to lean on the pessimistic side of things anyway - so I guess this is your style.

When the 1st string defense came off the field in the middle of the 3rd quarter, the score was 12-3. Could our offense have done better? Sure. I think the speed of the Bear's LBs and D-linemen were outclassing our Oline and blockers for McGahee. And we should already know and expect that if McGahee can't get it going, our offense will struggle. Those blocks need to be worked on - there's still time before the season starts.

A month ago, if I asked you what our preseason record was going to be...would you have told me 4-0 ???

I would never expect us to go 4-0 in the preseason because our coaches understand that the point isn't to win- it's to give the starters some practice and develop the depth chart by seeing the non-starters in action. I just didn't expect such sloppy play from starters two weeks before the season starts, and that's why I'm so negative.

Yes, I do tend to be pessimistic about both football and life in general. But an optimist can never be pleasantly surprised. I love the Bills and I'll be rooting for them til the day I die (unless they leave Buffalo), but this franchise has let us down so many times that sometimes it's hard for me to get my hopes up.

[mysticsoto]

I would never expect us to go 4-0 in the preseason because our coaches understand that the point isn't to win- it's to give the starters some practice and develop the depth chart by seeing the non-starters in action. I just didn't expect such sloppy play from starters two weeks before the season starts, and that's why I'm so negative.

Yes, I do tend to be pessimistic about both football and life in general. But an optimist can never be pleasantly surprised. I love the Bills and I'll be rooting for them til the day I die (unless they leave Buffalo), but this franchise has let us down so many times that sometimes it's hard for me to get my hopes up.
In my opinion, Mularkey doesn't want to show his hand on what plays he's going to be running once the season starts. And a vanilla offense against a good defense is tough to handle - just look at how we have outclassed pretty much every offense we've faced against our defense.

Whenever the Bills pulled out new plays out of their hat, we seemed to do well. In middle/end of the 2nd quarter, we mounted a decent drive. In the beginning of the 3rd, we did the same, this time using lineups we have never used before, like Jason Peters at tight end, etc. I expect that we will have more variety in our O-calls once the season starts. And they will make us look alot better. And we also have Parrish returning mid season as a new weapon that other teams won't have film on to break down and know how to handle. It'd be nice if we could have him come in for the Patriots game to be our secret weapon...

[OpIv37]

In my opinion, Mularkey doesn't want to show his hand on what plays he's going to be running once the season starts. And a vanilla offense against a good defense is tough to handle - just look at how we have outclassed pretty much every offense we've faced against our defense.

Whenever the Bills pulled out new plays out of their hat, we seemed to do well. In middle/end of the 2nd quarter, we mounted a decent drive. In the beginning of the 3rd, we did the same, this time using lineups we have never used before, like Jason Peters at tight end, etc. I expect that we will have more variety in our O-calls once the season starts. And they will make us look alot better. And we also have Parrish returning mid season as a new weapon that other teams won't have film on to break down and know how to handle. It'd be nice if we could have him come in for the Patriots game to be our secret weapon...

good point but here's my problem- you alluded to it, but no one ever uses this argument in reverse, ie "our D did really well in all 3 games, but we were going up against vanilla versions of the other team's offenses. Maybe the D's not as good as we thought"- I'm not criticizing the D- this is just an example of how a lot of people use this type of logic when it makes the Bills seem better but ignore it when it doesn't work in our favor.

[HAMMER]

Lot's of rose colored homers in here today. Jones had 94 yards on 14 carries, McGahee couldn't get anything done, except fumble. As you all know, the game is won and lost at the LOS. Looks to me like we lost at the LOS, and oh yeah, we lost the game. If the Bears had any semblance of a QB in the first half we would have been beat worse.

If we lost our best run stuffer in Fat Pat, and we lost our best O-Lineman in Jennings, are we better at the LOS than we were last year? Stop beating up on people for their opinions, especially when their opinions are pretty accurate. This team failed miserably last year against quality competition, we beat a lot of crappy teams down the stretch. Our vaunted defense got flogged by the Steelers scrubs when it mattered most, the biggest choke job I have ever witnessed from the Bills in my thirty years of watching them. When this team beats quality opponents with regularity then I will give them props, right now I choose to defend the realistic members of this board. I love the Bills and wish them luck, finish!

[OpIv37]

Lot's of rose colored homers in here today. Jones had 94 yards on 14 carries, McGahee couldn't get anything done, except fumble. As you all know, the game is won and lost at the LOS. Looks to me like we lost at the LOS, and oh yeah, we lost the game. If the Bears had any semblance of a QB in the first half we would have been beat worse.

If we lost our best run stuffer in Fat Pat, and we lost our best O-Lineman in Jennings, are we better at the LOS than we were last year? Stop beating up on people for their opinions, especially when their opinions are pretty accurate. This team failed miserably last year against quality competition, we beat a lot of crappy teams down the stretch. Our vaunted defense got flogged by the Steelers scrubs when it mattered most, the biggest choke job I have ever witnessed from the Bills in my thirty years of watching them. When this team beats quality opponents with regularity then I will give them props, right now I choose to defend the realistic members of this board. I love the Bills and wish them luck, finish!

Expect a barrage of negs- some people like mysticsoto, Mikey and Fairway will disagree but respect your opinion when they argue. The rest will get angry because you're pulling their heads out of the sand by pointing out flaws in our team that they'd rather not acknowledge.

[BAM]

Let's give them a chance to play a "real" game before passing judgement. The only teams that need to be worried are the ones that go undefeated in the preseason.

[OpIv37]

Let's give them a chance to play a "real" game before passing judgement. The only teams that need to be worried are the ones that go undefeated in the preseason.

right now all we have to go on is preseason. I'd rather the coaches/fans/media/ whoever is overly critical in preseason so they can use the little remaining time to fix some of the problems before the season starts. Passing judgement after a "real" game is too late, especially if that game results in a loss.

[BAM]

The only teams that need to be worried are the ones that go undefeated in the preseason.

[HAMMER]

Expect a barrage of negs- some people like mysticsoto, Mikey and Fairway will disagree but respect your opinion when they argue. The rest will get angry because you're pulling their heads out of the sand by pointing out flaws in our team that they'd rather not acknowledge.

Great, they can bring it. I respect their opinion and will take their best shots. I have never given pos/neg rep to anyone as I am not a fan of that system, but to each their own. I agree with BAM that we should wait until the real bullets fly before passing judgement. But I remain pessimistic after this team failed so miserably in the biggest home game in years to a bunch of backups. That was a complete joke and is inexcuseable, tells me they don't yet "know how to win". We'll see soon enough.

[BAM]

http://www.biffosbooks.ic24.net/img/sky%20is%20falling_md.jpg

[Crisis]

DOSE OF REALITY FOR OP-

ITS PRESEASON.

Remember the Bills last year? We got stronger as the game went on. The team was built on 2nd-half adjusments (didn't allow 3rd quarter TD last year, 12 points total). Willis McGahee was a player who got stronger as the game went on. Sorry, I'm not going to judge a team using different looks with 1 quarter of starter action.

The only stat that counts- When JP left the game on every game he's played, we were winning.

[mysticsoto]

good point but here's my problem- you alluded to it, but no one ever uses this argument in reverse, ie "our D did really well in all 3 games, but we were going up against vanilla versions of the other team's offenses. Maybe the D's not as good as we thought"- I'm not criticizing the D- this is just an example of how a lot of people use this type of logic when it makes the Bills seem better but ignore it when it doesn't work in our favor.
This might be true to some extent, but I don't feel that GB played just a vanilla offense. Annoyed at our constant blitzing, they implemented a strategy to counter it. And it wasn't really that bad. The Bills defense has actually shown a weakness to draw plays. I've seen them give up some yardage on draw plays since then also. Despite GB's attempt, we still outclassed them. That being said, you might be right. Our D may be just under being elite. I am close to being convinced, but not quite yet. I think our D is one good pass rushing defensive end away from being elite!

As to our O's play...I think we need to 1st and foremost give credit to the Bears. When people think of the Bears, they don't think of anything special, but they have a great defense. Provided they have no injuries this year, they may just show the rest of the NFL and be in the top 5.

As to the game, I'm going to stand by what I have said. The Bills were up 12-3 when they finally sat the starters in the middle of the 3rd quarter. We have been saying all along that the D and ST will mostly carry this team and that provided JP doesn't lose it for us (like DB typically would) we would win most of these types of close games. Well, this is exactly what we had. A tight defensive struggle. We were leading 12-3 and I don't see any reason to suspect that the D would have let up, or that special teams would have all of a sudden crumbled in the remaining 1.5 quarters left had they continued. The D would likely have remained stifling and the special teams would have given JP good field position. And we certainly wouldn't have had Baker performing that last terrible punt which got the Bears with good field position at the end to score. In the 1st 3 quarters, the starting Bills offense brought in 2 field goals. Continuing that trend, I might believe the final score might have ended as 15-6 or 15-9, if we had continued playing our starters!

I try and look at the game in 2 pieces. How the starters fared, and then how the backups fared. I understand that backups get intermixed here and there with the starters also, but when the bulk of the starters sit, I stop and take a snapshot, and from then on, I begin viewing the game differently.

[OpIv37]

DOSE OF REALITY FOR OP-

ITS PRESEASON.

Remember the Bills last year? We got stronger as the game went on. The team was built on 2nd-half adjusments (didn't allow 3rd quarter TD last year, 12 points total). Willis McGahee was a player who got stronger as the game went on. Sorry, I'm not going to judge a team using different looks with 1 quarter of starter action.

The only stat that counts- When JP left the game on every game he's played, we were winning.

well that may be true, but don't the penalties and fumbles concern you? JP fumbled twicein 3 games so far- he lost one and recovered the other but lost 20 yards. One lost fumble in 3 games isn't terrible for an inexperienced QB but Nate fumbled, Willis fumbled, Drew Haddad fumbled... adjustments will make the team better but they won't overcome penalties and fumbles.

[Crisis]

well that may be true, but don't the penalties and fumbles concern you? JP fumbled twicein 3 games so far- he lost one and recovered the other but lost 20 yards. One lost fumble in 3 games isn't terrible for an inexperienced QB but Nate fumbled, Willis fumbled, Drew Haddad fumbled... adjustments will make the team better but they won't overcome penalties and fumbles.
The officials are always flag-happy in the preseason. Especially on new rules to teach the players. Hell, half of those penalties are complete phantom calls.

Fumbles are something you can fix. Look at Tiki Barber. Things change when you get into real game situations.

[Philagape]

:yawn: Is preseason over yet? Let me know when teams start playing football.

[Earthquake Enyart]

i started to read that but then saw that it was wys length.. and i have read everything that OP posted there about 10 times already since the preseason started.. and yet another thread about how jp cant get the job done..

i havent negged you yet, OP, but just for repetition of the same god damn point.. you deserve it.

we get the point.. you have no optimism about the upcoming season.. should be a blast for you to watch... being that your so smart to know that we have no chance to even finish .500 by the midpoint of the season.. hell.. being that your so smart and are able to predict the future.. not to mention you have so much nfl experience that you are able to gauge things like if the bills are showing their true offense or to know how exactly an nfl qb is supposed to place a ball to a wr.. then you should just go ahead and get a 2nd mortgage on your house, drive out to vegas.. and put your money where your mouth is.. you could be rich.. and since there is no way you could be wrong.. if you dont do it.. your really going to be disappointed when you happily get to say i "I TOLD YOU SO!" but you didnt make a fortune on your psychic abilities..

now please.. no more damn posts about it would be appreciated.. at least until the season starts and your incredible genius is proved to be true and all of us fans that have a shred of optimism about the season are crushed.. you can start 100 new threads and 1000 new posts then about how right you were.

If somebody had said the exact same thing to you about Drew last season, you'd have blown a gasket.

[OpIv37]

we get the point.. you have no optimism about the upcoming season.. should be a blast for you to watch... being that your so smart to know that we have no chance to even finish .500 by the midpoint of the season.. hell.. being that your so smart and are able to predict the future.. not to mention you have so much nfl experience that you are able to gauge things like if the bills are showing their true offense or to know how exactly an nfl qb is supposed to place a ball to a wr..



oh and one more thing for the record- I didn't realize it took NFL experience to know that if the defender tips the ball before the WR touches it, the QB put it in the wrong spot. Apparently that's the type of analysis that can only be properly done with years of first-hand experience with the NFL.

[justasportsfan]

Overreaction. Like I said in another thread, as early as the 2nd qtr. Preston and some other back ups were there blocking for JP and Willis. Jp is in there to get experience and not try to win games.

I wonder how many overreacted all those years we went to the sb under Marv when our team looked way more horrific than this preseason.

[DraftBoy]

Im in complete agreement with Op on this one, I see this as a 6-10 team this season and maybe playoff bound next. Still way too many holes and question marks for me.

[BAM]

This happens every preseason. The NFL is way too unpredicatable to make any prediction... let alone a prediction based off of PRESEASON games. You guys is nuts.

[OpIv37]

This happens every preseason. The NFL is way too unpredicatable to make any prediction... let alone a prediction based off of PRESEASON games. You guys is nuts.

I hope you're right but again, it's the same players playing the same game. They're competitive guys and they're not just going to lay down because it's preseason- I just don't see why no one seems to acknowledge that problems arising in preseason are still worthy of correction.

[Mr. Cynical]

Another thing that some people are not realizing is that the good teams show flashes of why they are good even in the preseason. Tell me truthfully - has anyone seen any flashes of goodness from the oline?

I haven't. And that is a major concern for me.

[PatsowntheNFL]

I've been getting a lot of negative reps from my criticism of this weekend's game. I'm not sure who they're from, but I'm guessing Fairway and Typo since they've had the most ardent responses to my posts.

I have to say this- some of you are in for a big disappointment this season. Consider the following:

1. Penalties in all 3 preseason games
2. 3 fumbles against Chicago- 3!!!!
3. Good running against Indy, average running against GB and poor running against Chicago- the O line sucks and isn't going to be able to take pressure off of JP. Also we have no depth, and we're pretty much hosed with one injury.
4. Ron Edwards is no Pat Williams
5. JP made some plays that can cost the game.

For those of you who think I'm being too hard on JP- I made one comment in an overall team criticism on Friday night and started one thread on Saturday after watching the game on NFL Network- everyone jumped on me about it so I felt the need to defend myself. All along everyone has said that all JP has to do is not lose games for us- I can think of at least 3 plays in preseason that JP made that would have cost us the game.

Again, I don't expect him to be mistake-free. Against GB, there was one play when he ran when a receiver was open, and another play when he threw to a covered man when there was 20 yards of open running room in front of him. Who cares? He's inexperienced- he'll learn. It's the plays where he flails around like Michael Vick in a whorehouse and runs 20 yards backwards or throws into triple coverage that have me really concerned, because those are the plays where he fails to "not lose". I don't want him benched because he needs experience- I'm just saying I don't think he's ready to get it done yet. If you think he is, you're in for a disappointment this year.

As far as Ron Edwards goes, show me one play in the last two preseason games (cuz those are the ones I still have) where he did something that was anything better than average. I haven't seen it yet and I've been trying to watch him as much as possible.

To those who say "there was no game plan": Game plans don't prevent penalties. Game plans don't keep the ball off the turf. Game plans don't prevent the offensive linemen from whiffing on blocks.

To those who say Chicago has a good D: News flash: we're going to have to run against teams with good D's to get into the playoffs. If we can't do it, we don't deserve to be there.

It comes down to this: I'm getting negged for judging Losman, Edwards and the rest of the team by what I saw on the field instead of being a homer and believing the hype. To some of you, ignorance is bliss.

Believe me- I HOPE I'm wrong. I hope we just had an off night or I'm being too judgemental, because all the problems I've seen can't be corrected in two weeks, and that's all the time we have. But come mid-November when we're struggling to stay at .500, I'm going to bump this thread with a big I TOLD YOU SO.

If I'm wrong, feel free to rip on me and neg me all you want when the time comes.
You make some great points...what you see is what you get. The bills struggled against the BEARS!! A team that we would destroy with ease. What you see is what you get. And right now the bills look ragged on offense, and the defense has lost a step as well. Gonna be a long season up there in buffalo again it appears..

[The last buffalo fan]

You make some great points...what you see is what you get. The bills struggled against the BEARS!! A team that we would destroy with ease. What you see is what you get. And right now the bills look ragged on offense, and the defense has lost a step as well. Gonna be a long season up there in buffalo again it appears..
I'm not a homer, but your comments are not that interesting.

Welcome to the zone my friend, good bye from the zone!!!

[HAMMER]

You make some great points...what you see is what you get. The bills struggled against the BEARS!! A team that we would destroy with ease. What you see is what you get. And right now the bills look ragged on offense, and the defense has lost a step as well. Gonna be a long season up there in buffalo again it appears..

I don't think anyone will be destroying the Bears with ease this year. They look to have a VERY good defense. Their running game will also be strong with Jones and Benson. What a surprise, an antagonistic Pats troll.

[Night Train]

I hope I'm wrong about a lot of things- I'm just calling like I see it, because like I already said, there are a lot of problems that become evident in preseason which won't magically go away once the real season starts.
:rofl:

[STAMPY]

I saw this coming

[JD]

You make some great points...what you see is what you get. The bills struggled against the BEARS!! A team that we would destroy with ease. What you see is what you get. And right now the bills look ragged on offense, and the defense has lost a step as well. Gonna be a long season up there in buffalo again it appears..
:lmao:

[Michael82]

:rofl:
Op looked very impressed when he was at the game. Something tells me, he may be joining us Ostriches. :lol:

[ublinkwescore]

Why can't people just be satisfied with the fact that we won and give the team the benefit of the doubt until next week?

[OpIv37]

:rofl:


Op looked very impressed when he was at the game. Something tells me, he may be joining us Ostriches. :lol:


yeah yeah, I knew this was going to happen. Lindell wasn't asked to hit any difficult field goals, but he made all the easy ones so I can't complain there. JP looked much better than I expected him to, which is a really good thing. I'm not going to get too high on the guy after one good game against a mediocre D, but I definitely liked what I saw.

[jmb1099]

All we can do is wait until Sunday and see what happens next. All of the concerns that were mentioned in this thread (and I believe they were valid) seemed to have been addressed, at the very least they were addressed for this game. The oline played pretty well, JP played pretty well, our running game was good and what can you say about the defense yesterday? David Carr even while being killed the last few years, almost always managed to make some big plays and keep things close, but not yesterday. 5 sacks, five turnovers...sick. Bottom line this is not the same team we all saw at preseason. Do we dare be hopeful yet? Almost...lets talk after Tampa

[Michael82]

I don't have 50,000 but make it 25,000 and you've got yourself a bet. No way we're 5-3 or better at the break. Again, this is a bet I WANT to lose, because I don't want to see us struggling. But based on what I've seen, I'm really concerned.

I do think we're better off with Losman than Bledsoe but I just think he needs another year.
You should have taken me for 50,000. :ill:

[OpIv37]

You should have taken me for 50,000. :ill:

yeah well I take very little solace in winning this bet- I'd much rather be 5-3 and 1st place in the division than have a few extra zone bucks.