Saying Vick is a bad QB is ridiculous

[Uncle Jesse]

I don’t know what ideas some of you have about football or if you just think completely subjectively when it comes to this kind of stuff, but to say Michael Vick is a bad NFL QB is simply outrageous.

For those of you who think like that, I say this: football is about much more than Fantasy stats. I’m starting to realize that’s why so many people think that way about this guy. He doesn’t put up good fantasy numbers, so he must suck!

Is he the most accurate QB in the league? Absolutely not. Will he make a lot of mistakes in the passing game? Yes. I understand all this and agree.

But, as an offensive coach, Michael Vick gives me the ability to do ANYTHING I want on offense. As an opposing defensive coach, he makes me have to account for him on EVERY single play, regardless of down and distance. And that includes running AND throwing. You know, he does actually complete a pass once in a while. And some of them are pretty long ones, believe it or not.

Saying Vick is not a good QB because he doesn’t throw as well as other QB’s is like saying Deion wasn’t a good CB in his prime because he didn’t tackle as well (if at all) as other CB’s.

And besides all that, Vick QB’d his team to the NFC title game last season. Would the Falcons have made it that far with Shaub at QB? With JP Losman? With Drew Bledsoe? No way.

Michael Vick is a very high risk, high reward QB, but he has the ability to change a game on every single play. Saying he’s no good if you “take away his running,” is like saying Jerry Rice was no good “if you take away his catching.” It’s stupid. Every QB has different strengths and weaknesses. Being at least able to run is part of most QB’s job descriptions. Some just do it more often than others. And some better than others.

The biggest issue I have with him is that he’s not a West Coast QB and they’re trying to make him one.

So, you can call the guy a “glorified running back” all you want. I call him a guy who scares the living hell out of me as a defensive coach and a guy (provided he stays healthy) who will prolong my career as an offensive coach

[Luisito23]

Great Post Lindell!!! :bf1: :bf1: :bf1:



GO BILLS!!!!!!

[feelthepain]

I don’t know what ideas some of you have about football or if you just think completely subjectively when it comes to this kind of stuff, but to say Michael Vick is a bad NFL QB is simply outrageous.

For those of you who think like that, I say this: football is about much more than Fantasy stats. I’m starting to realize that’s why so many people think that way about this guy. He doesn’t put up good fantasy numbers, so he must suck!

Is he the most accurate QB in the league? Absolutely not. Will he make a lot of mistakes in the passing game? Yes. I understand all this and agree.

But, as an offensive coach, Michael Vick gives me the ability to do ANYTHING I want on offense. As an opposing defensive coach, he makes me have to account for him on EVERY single play, regardless of down and distance. And that includes running AND throwing. You know, he does actually complete a pass once in a while. And some of them are pretty long ones, believe it or not.

Saying Vick is not a good QB because he doesn’t throw as well as other QB’s is like saying Deion wasn’t a good CB in his prime because he didn’t tackle as well (if at all) as other CB’s.

And besides all that, Vick QB’d his team to the NFC title game last season. Would the Falcons have made it that far with Shaub at QB? With JP Losman? With Drew Bledsoe? No way.

Michael Vick is a very high risk, high reward QB, but he has the ability to change a game on every single play. Saying he’s no good if you “take away his running,” is like saying Jerry Rice was no good “if you take away his catching.” It’s stupid. Every QB has different strengths and weaknesses. Being at least able to run is part of most QB’s job descriptions. Some just do it more often than others. And some better than others.

The biggest issue I have with him is that he’s not a West Coast QB and they’re trying to make him one.

So, you can call the guy a “glorified running back” all you want. I call him a guy who scares the living hell out of me as a defensive coach and a guy (provided he stays healthy) who will prolong my career as an offensive coach

But, as an offensive coach, Michael Vick gives me the ability to do ANYTHING I want on offense. As an opposing defensive coach, he makes me have to account for him on EVERY single play
How can you do anything you want if your QB is one dimensional???
Make him throw the whole game and he's less then avg. Brady and Manning are not runnunig QB's they are thinking QB's and they scare me far more then Vick. It's great that he can run, but as you saw in the NFC championship game, what good was that??
A good D will shut Vick down 9 outa 10 times. I'm sick of hearing him being labled an "elite" QB, He's far from it.

[Michael82]

Vick is the most OVERRATED player in the NFL! :ill:

[OpIv37]

the only accurate part of that was the "high risk, high reward" statement. Vick's a hell of an athlete but he just doesn't understand football. If he knew how to read defenses and check off on receivers, he could be the best QB in the NFL. Instead, every time his guy is covered, he scrambles or dumps off to Crumpler.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Vick is certaintly not a great passer, but he is a great athelete and he is very important to his team.

[THATHURMANATOR]

Vick is the most OVERRATED player in the NFL! :ill:
I don't think I agree with that. Look at the Falcon's record with and without him....

[Dozerdog]

The Falcons win when they can rush trhe ball effectively with Dunn & what's his face.


Without the threat of a running game, Vick is like most QBs- easier to defend. But I would hate to try and defend him in a 2 minute drill.

[Uncle Jesse]

I don't think I agree with that. Look at the Falcon's record with and without him....
Ah thank you.

[vicmantak]

Vick is the most OVERRATED player in the NFL! :ill:I would say Vick is the most OVERPAID player in the NFL...

$130 million with a guaranteed $37 million is just INSANE.

[MACKgahee]

Vick is a great QB and i'd kill for him... Ok he got his ass kicked in the NFC champ game so he's a bad QB peyton manning didn't throw a single TD pass in his last afc champ game so he must be a bad qb too right? good job on that terrible stat his team is nothing w/o him point blank

[MACKgahee]

we r still gonna kick his a$$ though

[Jan Reimers]

Vick is the most OVERRATED player in the NFL! :ill:
I agree, Mikey. He's a gifted athlete and a great runner, but he has an erratic arm. QBs need to throw accurately. Vick can't.

[vicmantak]

On the other hand, it could be sarcastic but if Bills built this team protecting the right side of the OL (Big Mike) --- IMO Vick is exactly what Bills urgently need.

[don137]

It depends on how you rate a QB. Vick does not have an accurate arm. He will never have a good QB rating as a result. His legs are much better than his arm. QB ratings are only part of the story though. The intangibles are very important. Vick has the intangibles that do not show up much on the stat sheet. Look at Bledsoe, he does not have any of the intangibles. Bledsoe usually will have a good QB rating but the intangibles suck so bad (fumbles, sacks, can't scramble) that it hurts his team. If you go by stats or by the arm Vick sucks. If you go by the intangibles than Vick is great. If you combine the intangibles and the arm you basically breakeven but since his intangibles are so high he is slightly better than average. I know Vick gets sacked a lot but he usually makes up for it with his runs.

[Uncle Jesse]

I agree, Mikey. He's a gifted athlete and a great runner, but he has an erratic arm. QBs need to throw accurately. Vick can't.
He does have a better arm than JP Losman and I'd take him over any of our QB's no doubt.

[Gunzlingr]

He's no Ron Mexico. Wait, I guess he is.

[Gunzlingr]

For the record, I would take McNabb or Culpepper for my team long before I would take Vick. Both can run, and pass (tho lately culpepper has been a turnover machine)

[don137]

For the record, I would take McNabb or Culpepper for my team long before I would take Vick. Both can run, and pass (tho lately culpepper has been a turnover machine)

I agree...For as much as he is an asset with his legs he is a liability with his arm. I'd take a QB that does both above average than one that is great in one and awful in the other. As far as throwing the ball Vick is one of the worst in the league in terms of touch and accuracy. He has the arm strength.

[Ron Mexico]

Damn straight Vick ain't no bad QB. I, I mean, he, is da greatest aflete ever to step on da gridiron. Y'all be seein what I mean on Sunday, if that damn knee stops actin up.

[Ronald Mexico]

True Dat, Vick is a straight up balla yo!

[Ron Mexico]

Vick is the most OVERRATED player in the NFL! :ill: Overrated my ass! the only reason the NFL makes da money is cuz Vick gets the fans. He's underpaid if you ask me!


the only accurate part of that was the "high risk, high reward" statement. Vick's a hell of an athlete but he just doesn't understand football. If he knew how to read defenses and check off on receivers, he could be the best QB in the NFL. Instead, every time his guy is covered, he scrambles or dumps off to Crumpler.
He understands this: Football gets the $, $ gets the bling-bling, and the bling-bling gets the ladies.

[Ron Mexico]

True Dat, Vick is a straight up balla yo!
you don't gotsta tell me dat, fool!

[Michael82]

I agree, Mikey. He's a gifted athlete and a great runner, but he has an erratic arm. QBs need to throw accurately. Vick can't.
the media sucks his **** soo much. They were even talking about this one pass and how Vick had such an arm and it was such a perfect pass. It was off target. :cynic:

The Vick lovefest would be even higher than the Brady lovefest if Vick ever got his team to the Super Bowl and won it. Luckily, we'll never have to worry about that. :snicker:

[Michael82]

I hope we see a lot of Ron Mexico shirts and signs at the game. I'm looking to pick up one of those funny ones that they sell on Abbott. :D

[Ron Mexico]

the media sucks his **** soo much. They were even talking about this one pass and how Vick had such an arm and it was such a perfect pass. It was off target. :cynic:

The Vick lovefest would be even higher than the Brady lovefest if Vick ever got his team to the Super Bowl and won it. Luckily, we'll never have to worry about that. :snicker:
you all wrong Big Boy. If da media is sucking Mike Vick's ****, they should be happy for the opportuintie. Its time to bash da Bills and Super Bowl here we come!

[don137]

Overrated my ass! the only reason the NFL makes da money is cuz Vick gets the fans. He's underpaid if you ask me!


He understands this: Football gets the $, $ gets the bling-bling, and the bling-bling gets the ladies.


Just because you bring money to the league does not mean you are a great player. No correlation. He may be entertaining to watch but that does not mean he is a great QB. You need to be a great thrower and be great with the intangibles to be a great QB not just be able to run with the ball.
His arm scares no one.
And what does getting the ladies have to do with anything?

[Mr. Cynical]

I don’t know what ideas some of you have about football or if you just think completely subjectively when it comes to this kind of stuff, but to say Michael Vick is a bad NFL QB is simply outrageous.

For those of you who think like that, I say this: football is about much more than Fantasy stats. I’m starting to realize that’s why so many people think that way about this guy. He doesn’t put up good fantasy numbers, so he must suck!

Is he the most accurate QB in the league? Absolutely not. Will he make a lot of mistakes in the passing game? Yes. I understand all this and agree.

But, as an offensive coach, Michael Vick gives me the ability to do ANYTHING I want on offense. As an opposing defensive coach, he makes me have to account for him on EVERY single play, regardless of down and distance. And that includes running AND throwing. You know, he does actually complete a pass once in a while. And some of them are pretty long ones, believe it or not.

Saying Vick is not a good QB because he doesn’t throw as well as other QB’s is like saying Deion wasn’t a good CB in his prime because he didn’t tackle as well (if at all) as other CB’s.

And besides all that, Vick QB’d his team to the NFC title game last season. Would the Falcons have made it that far with Shaub at QB? With JP Losman? With Drew Bledsoe? No way.

Michael Vick is a very high risk, high reward QB, but he has the ability to change a game on every single play. Saying he’s no good if you “take away his running,” is like saying Jerry Rice was no good “if you take away his catching.” It’s stupid. Every QB has different strengths and weaknesses. Being at least able to run is part of most QB’s job descriptions. Some just do it more often than others. And some better than others.

The biggest issue I have with him is that he’s not a West Coast QB and they’re trying to make him one.

So, you can call the guy a “glorified running back” all you want. I call him a guy who scares the living hell out of me as a defensive coach and a guy (provided he stays healthy) who will prolong my career as an offensive coach
:10:

Perfect post.

[Lexwhat]

I agree...For as much as he is an asset with his legs he is a liability with his arm. I'd take a QB that does both above average than one that is great in one and awful in the other. As far as throwing the ball Vick is one of the worst in the league in terms of touch and accuracy. He has the arm strength.Liability? I assume by that you mean interceptions?

Personally, I don't like to bring up stats that much, but here's some from 2004:

Mike Vick: 1 INT / 26.8 Attempts
Matt Hasselbeck: 1 INT / 31.6 Attempts
Marc Bulger: 1 INT / 34.6 Attempts (With great receivers)
Tom Brady: 1 INT / 33.9 Attempts

Those #s are actually pretty close. Are Hasselbeck, Bulger, and Brady considered liabilities?

If you think there's a big difference between 1 INT/ 27 Attempts versus 1 INT/ 33 Attempts, here's some other stats:

McNabb: 1 INT / 58.6 Attempts
Culpepper: 1 INT / 49.8 Attempts
Manning: 1 INT / 49.7 Attempts

Combine that with the fact that the Falcons are a west coast offense...Vick - 902 yards rushing, Dunn - 1104 yards rushing, TJ Duckett - 509 yards rushing. Vick will never have stats like Mcnabb, Manning, or Culpepper because his offense doesn't allow it. What's the need for Vick to have 25-30 passing TDs? I dont get it.

[gr8slayer]

I don’t know what ideas some of you have about football or if you just think completely subjectively when it comes to this kind of stuff, but to say Michael Vick is a bad NFL QB is simply outrageous.

For those of you who think like that, I say this: football is about much more than Fantasy stats. I’m starting to realize that’s why so many people think that way about this guy. He doesn’t put up good fantasy numbers, so he must suck!

Is he the most accurate QB in the league? Absolutely not. Will he make a lot of mistakes in the passing game? Yes. I understand all this and agree.

But, as an offensive coach, Michael Vick gives me the ability to do ANYTHING I want on offense. As an opposing defensive coach, he makes me have to account for him on EVERY single play, regardless of down and distance. And that includes running AND throwing. You know, he does actually complete a pass once in a while. And some of them are pretty long ones, believe it or not.

Saying Vick is not a good QB because he doesn’t throw as well as other QB’s is like saying Deion wasn’t a good CB in his prime because he didn’t tackle as well (if at all) as other CB’s.

And besides all that, Vick QB’d his team to the NFC title game last season. Would the Falcons have made it that far with Shaub at QB? With JP Losman? With Drew Bledsoe? No way.

Michael Vick is a very high risk, high reward QB, but he has the ability to change a game on every single play. Saying he’s no good if you “take away his running,” is like saying Jerry Rice was no good “if you take away his catching.” It’s stupid. Every QB has different strengths and weaknesses. Being at least able to run is part of most QB’s job descriptions. Some just do it more often than others. And some better than others.

The biggest issue I have with him is that he’s not a West Coast QB and they’re trying to make him one.

So, you can call the guy a “glorified running back” all you want. I call him a guy who scares the living hell out of me as a defensive coach and a guy (provided he stays healthy) who will prolong my career as an offensive coach
Hey ***** that is my sig. Take it off yours and make your own.

[gr8slayer]

And you got that article from the Range and it was written by CoachC.

[don137]

Liability? I assume by that you mean interceptions?

Personally, I don't like to bring up stats that much, but here's some from 2004:

Mike Vick: 1 INT / 26.8 Attempts
Matt Hasselbeck: 1 INT / 31.6 Attempts
Marc Bulger: 1 INT / 34.6 Attempts (With great receivers)
Tom Brady: 1 INT / 33.9 Attempts

Those #s are actually pretty close. Are Hasselbeck, Bulger, and Brady considered liabilities?

If you think there's a big difference between 1 INT/ 27 Attempts versus 1 INT/ 33 Attempts, here's some other stats:

McNabb: 1 INT / 58.6 Attempts
Culpepper: 1 INT / 49.8 Attempts
Manning: 1 INT / 49.7 Attempts

Combine that with the fact that the Falcons are a west coast offense...Vick - 902 yards rushing, Dunn - 1104 yards rushing, TJ Duckett - 509 yards rushing. Vick will never have stats like Mcnabb, Manning, or Culpepper because his offense doesn't allow it. What's the need for Vick to have 25-30 passing TDs? I dont get it.

He is aninaccurate thrower as far as NFL QBs go. He often misses a wide open receiver. His arm is a liability.

[Uncle Jesse]

Hey ***** that is my sig. Take it off yours and make your own.
Hey, I'm also BanditsRock11, you made that sig for me remeber?

[Uncle Jesse]

And you got that article from the Range and it was written by CoachC.
Yes, I know, as a stated under the title of the thread, I didnt write this I got it from somewhere else.

[DynaPaul]

Vick's a great athlete. But he's never gonna win the big one. As long as he's around he'll be just a one man show.

[BiLLSRuLE]

Vick = bad "QB", great "football player"

[Uncle Jesse]

Vick = bad "QB", great "football player"

Hes not a bad QB, if he was why has he been the start for so long?

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I don’t know what ideas some of you have about football or if you just think completely subjectively when it comes to this kind of stuff, but to say Michael Vick is a bad NFL QB is simply outrageous.

For those of you who think like that, I say this: football is about much more than Fantasy stats. I’m starting to realize that’s why so many people think that way about this guy. He doesn’t put up good fantasy numbers, so he must suck!

Is he the most accurate QB in the league? Absolutely not. Will he make a lot of mistakes in the passing game? Yes. I understand all this and agree.

But, as an offensive coach, Michael Vick gives me the ability to do ANYTHING I want on offense. As an opposing defensive coach, he makes me have to account for him on EVERY single play, regardless of down and distance. And that includes running AND throwing. You know, he does actually complete a pass once in a while. And some of them are pretty long ones, believe it or not.

Saying Vick is not a good QB because he doesn’t throw as well as other QB’s is like saying Deion wasn’t a good CB in his prime because he didn’t tackle as well (if at all) as other CB’s.....

So, you can call the guy a “glorified running back” all you want. I call him a guy who scares the living hell out of me as a defensive coach and a guy (provided he stays healthy) who will prolong my career as an offensive coach
Extremely well put! Particularly the part about Fantasy Football stats!!!

There is a big difference between fantasy football and the NFL game that takes place between the lines on the field every week. A HUGE difference.

What the stats don't show is the threat that Vick poses that forces defensive coordinators to alter their schemes and put defensive players in positions where they have to do things they are not accustomed to doing.

At this point in time, Vick is probably the best broken-field runner in the NFL and is a threat to take it to the house every time he has the ball in his hands. As a QB he has the ball in his hands on every play and defenses have to account for him before they can concern themselves with the other players on his offense--that changes everything for a defense. And, because he's really the only QB in the NFL who is like that, teams have a difficult time preparing for the Atlanta offense.


I don't think I agree with that. Look at the Falcon's record with and without him....
Ultimately, that's the bottom line. Atlanta's winning percentage when Vick plays is so much greater than it is when he doesn't that it isn't funny. It would probably be easier for the Pats to replace Brady or for the Colts to replace P.Manning that it would be for the Falcons to replace Vick.


The Falcons win when they can rush trhe ball effectively with Dunn & what's his face.

Without the threat of a running game, Vick is like most QBs- easier to defend. But I would hate to try and defend him in a 2 minute drill.
Vick's ability to stick the ball in Dunn's belly, pull it out and take it 80 yards around the end makes it easier for Dunn (and Duckett) to run the ball because the outside LBs, SSs and DEs can't crash down in run support until they know that Vick no longer has the ball, so it works both ways. The running game with Dunn and Duckett makes Vick more effective, but the threat of Vick running or passing also makes their conventional running game more effective.

Vick is not a conventional NFL QB, he is an option QB. Like a lot of option QBs, Vick is not that accurate of a passer, but it is the twin threat of his running and his passing that, combined, make him effective. Also, he has a cannon for an arm--he can throw the ball on a line 60+ yards. Now, he's not accurate with his arm, but, as long as Atlanta has a fast receiver that they can send deep, the defense has to respect his ability to throw the ball deep for six and that stretches out the defense and opens holes for him and the RBs to run through. It also opens up the underneath routes for his TE and possession receivers. Vick isn't accurate enough to keep the chains moving with his arm, but all he has to do is hit one really deep pass a game to force defenses to cover the deep routes or risk giving up points.

Vick is not a great conventional NFL QB in the Johnny Unitas/Peyton Manning mold, but he is a great option QB, the likes of which are rarely seen in the NFL because of the athletic ability that is required to be one in a league where the defensive players are so fast and athletic themselves. You can't compare Vick to a conventional QB because it is like comparing apples to oranges. The only thing that you can look at is how effective he is for his team and the stats tell us that he has been very effective. Good enough to win it all? Probably not...or at least not until he either becomes a more accurate passer or Atlanta finds an elusive, instinctive WR ,who can react quickly and find the open areas on the field when Vick's scrambling causes the play to break break down, to match with their speed receivers, who they need to go deep to stretch the field. Atlanta really doesn't have that kind of receiver yet--Brian Finneran is the only guy they really have who can do it and Vick finds him a lot, but he isn't that big of a threat to score after the catch.