Starting Holcomb vs. JP

[justasportsfan]

Holcomb- Has the experience of throwing for over 400+ yds in the playoffs. He will make our passing O better. Right now, having a great wr line-up means nothing without a qb. Problem is, we don't have the OL that can protect him.

JP- If we start him, look for an 8-8 season but it will speed up his learning process.

Our wr's are wasting away. Our D's age will be old by the time JP matures. OUr D , ST and running game is what kept us in the game. OUr passing game is what lost it for us. Since I want to win now and not wait for JP to mature, I say start Holcomb and salvage our season. We're still in it.

[Novacane]

Holcomb will not lead us to the playoffs. Stick with the plan

[Philagape]

Our passing game didn't give up 200+ yards rushing and leave Jenkins wide open for a TD. The defense lost this game just as much as JP did.

[Kerr]

I'm betting Mularkey is willing to give Losman a few more games to get his act together or hit the bench. Mularkey as he stated, said he wouldn't give up the season for "learning experience". You all saw that when he benched losman for a series against the bucs. Losman is on a short leash. Losman needs to bring that attitude he had before he got drafted, when he said "I'm as good or better than manning, roethlisberger and rivers". That's not an exact quote, but you get the picture. Losman needs to step it up and back it up.

[colin]

Our passing game didn't give up 200+ yards rushing and leave Jenkins wide open for a TD. The defense lost this game just as much as JP did.

our D did not play well enough, but we ran the ball well on O and got in the red zone 4 times.

we got a turn over deep in enemy territory and a turnover on speacial teams. our RB was tearing it up, and we still couldn't pass for 100 yards. that is terrible. our pass blocking is bad, but if a qb can't get more than 5 yards an attempt and more than 50% accuracy against a wounded bad secondary he isn't good.

JP isn't good, not now. we have a guy who can pass, and we need to play him.

[Novacane]

JP isn't good, not now. we have a guy who can pass, and we need to play him.



colin, what are you basing this statement on? One good playoff game from Holcomb? He is not the answer. There is a reason no team went after him to start when he was a FA.

[jonah7777]

first MM does not have final say over who starts-- bet on it.
he can whine all he wants TD makes the final decision and I feel safe in saying unless there is a injury you will never see holcomb start here.

[finsrclowns]

IMO if we lose next week Mularkey pulls the plug.

[justasportsfan]

don't get me wrong, I still think JP will eventually become a good qb. He's struggling as expected but I want to win now.I don't want to throw away a season for the sake of one guy. Having a rookie starter is not an excuse for TD. If we don't make playoffs I'm calling for TD's head. The bengals are better than we are. Are we gonna wait til they beat us to a sb?

[The_Philster]

You advocate starting Holcomb even though you made this statement?
Holcomb- Has the experience of throwing for over 400+ yds in the playoffs. He will make our passing O better. Right now, having a great wr line-up means nothing without a qb. Problem is, we don't have the OL that can protect him.

[chubluv]

Holcomb will not be a starter here! JP is our man until otherwise stated by MM &TD. After all we gave up to get DRew & let go of Drew & Trade up for JP they are not just gonna go dump him after 3 games. He needs his time in there to grow. Its not fair to compare him to Big Ben because pittsburg has a better overall team around him. I would compare JP's learning time to that of Eli Manning. Last year Eli sucked at first but the Giants stuck with him and let him get better as he went. We have to do the same with JP.

It would help if the play calling was a little better. Tom Clements should scrap The WR screen. Nobody is fooled by it. He could also throw a RB screen pass in there, & maybe lighten the playbook for now until JP & the rest of the offense are on the same page.

[justasportsfan]

You advocate starting Holcomb even though you made this statement?JP didn't have protection either. MY feeling is that when the pcoket holds at least Holcomb can ghit Moulds or Evans. Right now, they are not even part of the game.

[justasportsfan]

Holcomb will not be a starter here! JP is our man until otherwise stated by MM &TD. After all we gave up to get DRew & let go of Drew & Trade up for JP they are not just gonna go dump him after 3 games. He needs his time in there to grow. Its not fair to compare him to Big Ben because pittsburg has a better overall team around him. I would compare JP's learning time to that of Eli Manning. Last year Eli sucked at first but the Giants stuck with him and let him get better as he went. We have to do the same with JP.

It would help if the play calling was a little better. Tom Clements should scrap The WR screen. Nobody is fooled by it. He could also throw a RB screen pass in there, & maybe lighten the playbook for now until JP & the rest of the offense are on the same page.I understand that, but like I said, Jp isn't doibng his part either when given the chance. I like JP. I believe he will be a very good qb but like Eli, he will struggle and it's showing/ Should we give the season up just so that he can develop? We have a good team right now that is competitive if we had a qb. :idunno:

[The_Philster]

If we don't "give up the season" now, when do we develop JP? Or are we gonna toss him away after 3 games and watch another team develop him and have him beat us in a year or two?

[chubluv]

I understand that, but like I said, Jp isn't doibng his part either when given the chance. I like JP. I believe he will be a very good qb but like Eli, he will struggle and it's showing/ Should we give the season up just so that he can develop? We have a good team right now that is competitive if we had a qb. :idunno:


We do have a QB. Its not all his fault. Its a team game. Only thing that looked half way decent today was our running game. Morman looked like crap again. The D was swiss cheese. Its a team game we could probably overcome JP's preformance if the other aspects of the game were working.

[finsrclowns]

I understand that, but like I said, Jp isn't doibng his part either when given the chance. I like JP. I believe he will be a very good qb but like Eli, he will struggle and it's showing/ Should we give the season up just so that he can develop? We have a good team right now that is competitive if we had a qb. :idunno:

I said last year many times I supported DB as our starter but that I would accept what the coaches decided was best for the team this year. That QB was JP and I've supported him.

Part of why I supported DB is that it was clear to me that Drew was doing a decent job with a suspect line. He needed a pocket to throw from and more often than not he didn't have one for long. He seems to be doing ok in Dallas with a pocket. I watched the game again and I have to say IMO JP is not close to being a playoff QB with this team right now. That was part of my reluctance last year to say go with him in the 1st place- young QB's tend to struggle especially behind a suspect line and we were one letdown game from being in the playoffs last year. But TD and Mularkey said.....anyway....

I've been saying wait until the NO game is over but looking at our schedule the more I think about it we have to win that game. I just can't see us going in to face the fins at 1-3. The pressure on JP would be immense. So I guess I'm ready to make a stand on this: start JP against NO but if he's still scuffling or we're trailing at halftime by more than a FG, go with Holcomb. The one thing people should know about Holcomb is he wasn't exactly playing behind 5 pillars of granite in Cleveland. Even if he takes some sacks the guy is pretty accurate and that's what we have to have at QB- whoever it is playing. It really is a no lose situation in one sense: if we have to go to Holcomb and he gives us a spark we're still alive this year. If he doesn't and we continue to lose games you can always go back to JP later in the year with hope of him being more ready next year.

[Meathead]

I praised Losman after playing well above expectations in the opener.

The past two games have been very far below expectations. He's been nothing short of lost. That needs to get "a lot" better fast.

That's probably not going to get "a lot" better fast.

At his current level of play he should be yanked immediately. They'll probably give him one more game but 1-3 will definitely do it.

[Meathead]

If I could snap my fingers and magically have Drew back I'd be snapping my ass off.

[DaBills]

If I could snap my fingers and magically have Drew back I'd be snapping my ass off.
Not me. Like someone said on another thread, he always has something to prove. Well, prove it. He was given the QB position here unchallenged for three years. The final straw was tanking at home against a second string Pitt D with the playoffs on the line. What more chance does he need?

And start Holcomb on the strength of one great game? Never happen. You'd have more luck signing RJ to a $25M dollar contract on the strength of one good game.

;-p

[TacklingDummy]

Even tho I think he sucks and will never be a good QB I'd have to say "Let him play".

That way everyone gets to come to the conclusion that JP sucks. And we don''t go into next year pinning are hopes on a guy who sat on the bench because we thought he get better by being on the bench.

[finsrclowns]

Even tho I think he sucks and will never be a good QB I'd have to say "Let him play".

That way everyone gets to come to the conclusion that JP sucks. And we don''t go into next year pinning are hopes on a guy who sat on the bench because we thought he get better by being on the bench.

Wrong attitude. You play the guy that gives you the best chance to win right now. If that's JP so be it, if it isn't, even if it might be at some future date, you play Holcomb at least until playoffs are no longer a possibility. This isn't about proving people right or wrong it's about winning games.

[DaBills]

My concern isn't his arm. Obivously he can chuck it. It's the accuracy. I'd rather him be accurate in the 15-30 yard range and move chains right now than three-and-outs on deep routes. Look at noodle-arm Pennington. That guy lobs deep passes so high they need to be fair caught, but his short game is very accurate.

Someone needs to settle JP's ass down or MM needs to adjust the playcalling to a short game with the TE's and slants. When Drew worked in the screen with Centers to great success, we moved the ball. It's almost like the coaching staff has this thing for the big play every series.

[FlyingDutchman]

Does anyone realize that our leading TD receiver is our backup left tackle??!! I see the potential in Losman, hes a great athlete but his head is not there. Besides the one play in which Eric Moulds was wide open in the end zone and JP didnt even look, he also missed a wide open Peters on a tackle eligible play...i mean WIDE OPEN. I dont know what to think anymore...Im so annoyed and dissapointed to the point that I want to freakin cry. Ive been waiting for this season for so long and I feel like its headed down the crapper already. I know the last thing this board needs is more negativity, but im just worn down. We have so much talent and it just breaks my heart to see the players go through this as well as all of us. Im not throwing in the towel yet, but something has got to give. Our D is getting older and contracts are nearing the end on a lot of good players. I'm so scared we're missing out on what should be a great team, at the expense of teaching a young QB. And to top it all off, my fantasy team is sucking ass with great players. I got nothing goin for me on Sundays. Guess I'll start going to church or something. Something that wont give me an ulcer on Sundays. Keep your heads up guys, Ill try to do the same...

[Mr. Cynical]

Wrong attitude. You play the guy that gives you the best chance to win right now. If that's JP so be it, if it isn't, even if it might be at some future date, you play Holcomb at least until playoffs are no longer a possibility. This isn't about proving people right or wrong it's about winning games.
I still fail to see how a 32 yr old career backup who could not hold onto a starting job in the NFL gives us the best chance to win. He's had 8 seasons and has never played even one full season.

[FlyingDutchman]

I still fail to see how a 32 yr old career backup who could not hold onto a starting job in the NFL gives us the best chance to win. He's had 8 seasons and has never played even one full season.
I hear ya, but you also gotta remember who he played for...

[Drive 4 Five]

If I could snap my fingers and magically have Drew back I'd be snapping my ass off.

Well guess what bro? You CAN have him back. Go root for the Cowboys if you miss him so much and spare us the trouble of having to read all your stupid posts about how he is the highest rated QB in the league...blah...blah...blah.

GET OVER IT!

:brush:

[Seventeen&0]

I've been reading a lot this morning about JP and the doom and gloom on this site. I have to say it's pretty pathetic. You can NOT pull JP right now. He will get better and he's your future at QB. Every young QB struggles at first, Brees, Favre, Palmer etc.
Palmer is probably the best example along with Aikman. Aikman went 1-15 his rookie/first year. The experience he gains this year is invaluable. Sure up the things around him, the running game, Defense, special teams and take some pressure off him.

Being a Dolphin fan, i hope he continues to struggle....but I've been on here before and said that I like JP. I also said he'd have a hard time at first, but he will get better. IMO

[Mr. Cynical]

I hear ya, but you also gotta remember who he played for...
Ya gotta remember we're no better than Cleveland...

Since '01:

Browns: 25-39
Bills: 26-38

We're in the same league which is inexcusable. Some people (not you) fail to realize we *are* that bad. The Glory Days are a distant memory. :(

[finsrclowns]

I still fail to see how a 32 yr old career backup who could not hold onto a starting job in the NFL gives us the best chance to win. He's had 8 seasons and has never played even one full season.

This isn't about resumes. If it were, JP doesn't have one. Not yet anyway. Monte Hall used to have unknown stuff behind doors and curtains and it wasn't always good, you know? I've watched Holcomb play a couple times, once in a playoff game against Pitt, and he looked like a solid player, indeed in the playoff game he looked positively brilliant against a top line D. And Holcomb didn't exactly have the cast of the '90 49er's around him in Cleveland, you know? That doesn't mean there're preparing a bust for him in Canton, but it does mean IMO that he can consistently throw for over 100 yards against ANY NFL defense even given a suspect line. Can JP? I would assume so, given enough experience. But for this year at least time is running out. What I cannot for the life of me understand is what the downside, assuming JP lays another egg against NO, of giving Holcomb a chance. If after a few games we're no better off, put JP back in. This is a performance business and not about hurting feelings. Either JP steps up in the 1st half next week or I say give Holcomb a shot.