Put it this way....

[Mr. Cynical]

....then we're completely screwed for the next 5 years.

TD is not going to give up on him after trading those picks. That's a no brainer. He will give him AT LEAST the same amount of time he gave Blew, which is 3 years. So that means he will be around until through the '07 season. If after 3 years (05, 06, 07) he doesn't cut it, he will be released or traded.

Then we'll have to DRAFT one again or find some FA. Odds are we will draft, which means another 1-2 years AT LEAST before he gets up to speed.

Doing the math, if JP doesn't pan out we won't be in the hunt until the '09 season at best. Cheery thought, eh?

So.....wouldn't it be better to find out as early as possible if he is the man or not? If he sucks so badly, there may be a chance he gets cut earlier rather than later. This team is not poised to make a serious run at this point anyway, so we may as well take the lumps now. If JP IS the answer, we'll get the dividends next year as opposed to 2 or 3 down the road.

Holcomb is not a permanent starter in this league. Never has been, never will. Holcombites like to point to his playoff game, but that smacks of RJ's one great game in Jax. No, I don't think KH is going to take us anywhere.

Playing JP now is the only thing that makes sense for this team.

[JBrownFinFan]

Maybe you guys will sneak in as a wild card in that '09 season. :lmao:

[Mr. Cynical]

Maybe you guys will sneak in as a wild card in that '09 season. :lmao:
Maybe you'll finish above 4-12 this year....but then again, maybe not.

[JBrownFinFan]

Maybe you'll finish above 4-12 this year....but then again, maybe not.

I'd be willing to bet we win more games than you. I know we are not a playoff team but neither are you. We'll be returning to the playoffs ALOT sooner than you will be

[Mr. Cynical]

I'd be willing to bet we win more games than you. I know we are not a playoff team but neither are you. We'll be returning to the playoffs ALOT sooner than you will be
You better stop smoking all of Ricky's stash. He'll get pissed.

[Mr. Cynical]

bump :D

[The King]

I want to see Holcomb play with these starters before I judge what he is capable of.

[Novacane]

I'd be willing to bet we win more games than you. I know we are not a playoff team but neither are you. We'll be returning to the playoffs ALOT sooner than you will be


With Gus as your QB? Don't count on it.

[X-Era]

....then we're completely screwed for the next 5 years.

TD is not going to give up on him after trading those picks. That's a no brainer. He will give him AT LEAST the same amount of time he gave Blew, which is 3 years. So that means he will be around until through the '07 season. If after 3 years (05, 06, 07) he doesn't cut it, he will be released or traded.

Then we'll have to DRAFT one again or find some FA. Odds are we will draft, which means another 1-2 years AT LEAST before he gets up to speed.

Doing the math, if JP doesn't pan out we won't be in the hunt until the '09 season at best. Cheery thought, eh?

So.....wouldn't it be better to find out as early as possible if he is the man or not? If he sucks so badly, there may be a chance he gets cut earlier rather than later. This team is not poised to make a serious run at this point anyway, so we may as well take the lumps now. If JP IS the answer, we'll get the dividends next year as opposed to 2 or 3 down the road.

Holcomb is not a permanent starter in this league. Never has been, never will. Holcombites like to point to his playoff game, but that smacks of RJ's one great game in Jax. No, I don't think KH is going to take us anywhere.

Playing JP now is the only thing that makes sense for this team.
Thank you...I was this close to posting this type of post myself.

We are where we are. Bench Losman and start Holcomb? OK, what then? Does anyone really believe that Holcomb wins more games for us than Losman? OK, How many 1 or 2? So if we are say 8 and 8 with Losman, Holcomb gets us the 1 or 2 wins that send us to the playoffs? Do you seriously believe that we are an 8 and 8 team? If we are under or over that, this is a useless point because I dont see Holcomb being anymore that 1 or 2 games better and personally I dont think hes any better but actually worse.

Now, Holcomb starts the rest of the year. What then? What happens in the 2006 season? Dont you believe Losman still will have to learn on the field? So you want to just push off the losses until next year? or never start Losman again ever? Then you might as well cut or trade him because benching him does nothing but tie up our cap and put a freeze on his development.

God, if you just think this stuff through I cant get any logic out of starting Holcomb, its just plain ridiculous.

[Demon]

If Losman is the long term anwser or not, we won't know til mid-next season. He needs to grow, develop and gain confidence in his ability, and then play like a "rookie". IMO, he should have been a backup this season, and next year put into the fire, and we'd see him stuggle, but, there would be signs of greatness too i'm sure. It wouldn't be as bad at this season, he is learning nothing this season and yes, maybe, we put him in too early and he is done for life.

But, this hurts the whole team. Don't people realize we have a young WR in Lee Evans? With JP playing like garbage, it's hurting Evan's development also. He is not getting better this season, he is not see the ball and he is gaining no expierence.

I know we're a running ball, but the way Evans finished last season, i thought for sure he and Losman would be able to hook up a few times. But nothing, Evans will never turn into a great WR like many think because his sophmore year was a wasted time.

[bledslow]

Thank you...I was this close to posting this type of post myself.

We are where we are. Bench Losman and start Holcomb? OK, what then? Does anyone really believe that Holcomb wins more games for us than Losman? OK, How many 1 or 2? So if we are say 8 and 8 with Losman, Holcomb gets us the 1 or 2 wins that send us to the playoffs? Do you seriously believe that we are an 8 and 8 team? If we are under or over that, this is a useless point because I dont see Holcomb being anymore that 1 or 2 games better and personally I dont think hes any better but actually worse.

Now, Holcomb starts the rest of the year. What then? What happens in the 2006 season? Dont you believe Losman still will have to learn on the field? So you want to just push off the losses until next year? or never start Losman again ever? Then you might as well cut or trade him because benching him does nothing but tie up our cap and put a freeze on his development.

God, if you just think this stuff through I cant get any logic out of starting Holcomb, its just plain ridiculous.






gulp gulp gulp,still swallowing the loserman koolaid hype i see.defending your binky every chance you get. how many more games would holcomb win if he was the starter compared to jp?? im not sure,but he would definately win more though.maybe it would be 3-5 games more. he is just straight up the better qb.



an for the other poster,holcomb had more the one good game in cleveland. he had more then a few flashes of brilliance on a horrible cleveland team. i think he can do real good with the talent on this bills team. ppl would actually respect the pass. cause jp has the accuracy of a old blind grandmother on heroin.

[THATHURMANATOR]

People are so friggen impatiant. If we don't start JP now when is he going to get exp? Palmer and Manning looked bad last year. They look good now!

[X-Era]

gulp gulp gulp,still swallowing the loserman koolaid hype i see.defending your binky every chance you get. how many more games would holcomb win if he was the starter compared to jp?? im not sure,but he would definately win more though.maybe it would be 3-5 games more. he is just straight up the better qb.



an for the other poster,holcomb had more the one good game in cleveland. he had more then a few flashes of brilliance on a horrible cleveland team. i think he can do real good with the talent on this bills team. ppl would actually respect the pass. cause jp has the accuracy of a old blind grandmother on heroin.
3 to 5 games is a complete joke. You need to root for the Browns with another career backup like Dilfer with crap like that. Im just not going to respond to your sillyness anymore after a thought like 3 to 5 games better. Thats just about the funnyest thing Ive heard all day.

[Mr. Cynical]

People are so friggen impatiant. If we don't start JP now when is he going to get exp? Palmer and Manning looked bad last year. They look good now!
Ding ding ding....we have a winner. :D

[Voltron]

People are so friggen impatiant. If we don't start JP now when is he going to get exp? Palmer and Manning looked bad last year. They look good now!
You could say the opposite about Carr and Harrington. :idunno:

[Mr. Cynical]

You could say the opposite about Carr and Harrington. :idunno:How do you know that it was the early start that caused their poor play? It could very easily be the fact that they simply just suck and all the time in the world wouldn't have changed that fact.

You have to take chances in this league with FAcy in place. You don't have 3-5 years to develop a QB anymore like in the old days.

[Voltron]

How do you know that it was the early start that caused their poor play? It could very easily be the fact that they simply just suck and all the time in the world wouldn't have changed that fact.

You have to take chances in this league with FAcy in place. You don't have 3-5 years to develop a QB anymore like in the old days.
I am not disagreeing with either of you. I am just pointing out for every QB that has panned out there are dozens that didn't or haven’t. I have to say one thing, Carr and Harrington both showed a lot more promise earlier on with a lot less talent surrounding them. I am not anywhere close to labeling him a bust but at the same point I would like for him to show us more than one long pass against one of the worst Ds in the league. I say if he has another game like this then we start Holcombe for A GAME. Then see if JP can EARN his job back. I think not making him earn it in the first place is what put them where they are at this point.

It is like playing Russian roulette but one thing we can all be happy with. It's Ralph's money and not ours :snicker:

[Ebenezer]

I am not disagreeing with either of you. I am just pointing out for every QB that has panned out there are dozens that didn't or haven’t. I have to say one thing, Carr and Harrington both showed a lot more promise earlier on with a lot less talent surrounding them. I am not anywhere close to labeling him a bust but at the same point I would like for him to show us more than one long pass against one of the worst Ds in the league. I say if he has another game like this then we start Holcombe for A GAME. Then see if JP can EARN his job back. I think not making him earn it in the first place is what put them where they are at this point.

It is like playing Russian roulette but one thing we can all be happy with. It's Ralph's money and not ours :snicker:
no...but it could be another season (or 2 or 3 or more) without playoffs.

[Voltron]

no...but it could be another season (or 2 or 3 or more) without playoffs.
I was already planning on no playoffs this year. At this point until I can see a unit that can at least win at home then they will lose me as a season ticket holder next year. While I enjoy the games that ride home is certainly a lot longer after a loss.

[Ebenezer]

I was already planning on no playoffs this year. At this point until I can see a unit that can at least win at home then they will lose me as a season ticket holder next year. While I enjoy the games that ride home is certainly a lot longer after a loss.
and that is where the fan is over a barrel..."come out or we move"...all NFL teams have that mantra...that is why as fans we HAVE to insist the team does everything possible to win now...with the salary cap there is no future in the NFL unless you get old and HAVE to rebuild. 9-7?? This team did not have to rebuild. Check the free agent list for 2006...this team very easily could slide into rebuild mode yet again.

[TacklingDummy]

....then we're completely screwed for the next 5 years.

TD is not going to give up on him after trading those picks. That's a no brainer.

Maybe TD won't be making the decisions anymore. Hopefully.

I've been impressed with TD. Mike Sheppard, Gregg Williams, Rob Johnson, Mike Williams, Travis Henry situation, his comments about not needing a kicker, his save the postage comments, his trading of a #1 draft pick for Drew, His trading of a #1 draft pick for JP, his non hirings of John Fox or Marvin Lewis, his online scrubs signings, etc...

[Mr. Cynical]

and that is where the fan is over a barrel..."come out or we move"...all NFL teams have that mantra...that is why as fans we HAVE to insist the team does everything possible to win now...with the salary cap there is no future in the NFL unless you get old and HAVE to rebuild. 9-7?? This team did not have to rebuild. Check the free agent list for 2006...this team very easily could slide into rebuild mode yet again.You do realize that out of those 9 wins, only 2 teams had winning records (Seattle and the Jets). We were not a good team last year, and nor are we this year.

This offseason I got sucked into the hype with all the "talent on paper" marketing, but I'm slowly going back to my original stance....TD has to go.

[zone]

and that is where the fan is over a barrel..."come out or we move"...all NFL teams have that mantra...that is why as fans we HAVE to insist the team does everything possible to win now...with the salary cap there is no future in the NFL unless you get old and HAVE to rebuild. 9-7?? This team did not have to rebuild. Check the free agent list for 2006...this team very easily could slide into rebuild mode yet again.
Exactly win now, we should be fielding the best possible player we have at every position I don't care who they are, or were. Anyone that even spends a dime on this team (season tickets, single game tickets, jersey's, shirts, hats) Has a right to want them to produce W. I personal invest over $2500 a year, as I am sure many of you do at least this or more if you have seasons, we want to win and we have a right to want this.

[Ebenezer]

You do realize that out of those 9 wins, only 2 teams had winning records (Seattle and the Jets). We were not a good team last year, and nor are we this year.

This offseason I got sucked into the hype with all the "talent on paper" marketing, but I'm slowly going back to my original stance....TD has to go.
as a talent evaluator I have never contested that...as a Pres he has done a good job for the organization...that won't get him fired.

[Mr. Cynical]

as a talent evaluator I have never contested that...as a Pres he has done a good job for the organization...that won't get him fired.
So you think 5 years without a playoff game is "doing a good job for the organization"? This isn't an accounting company. It's a football team. If that doesn't get him fired, then Ralph is senile.

[Ebenezer]

So you think 5 years without a playoff game is "doing a good job for the organization"? This isn't an accounting company. It's a football team. If that doesn't get him fired, then Ralph is senile.
President's job is to put fans in the seats and generate as much money as possible; he has done that...

GM job is to evaluate talent and address need...he hasn't done that...as I have said all along.

[Mr. Cynical]

President's job is to put fans in the seats and generate as much money as possible; he has done that...

GM job is to evaluate talent and address need...he hasn't done that...as I have said all along.
You're hedging now. Since TD is both the Pres/GM, they are not two separate entities. The role is merged into one in this case. In the end, overall either TD has been good for the organization or he hasn't. No playoffs in 5 years. Make the case.