All this crying for Bledsoe is stupid

[Novacane]

He's gone. Can't undo what is done. Deal with it crybabies. At least when the amigos were calling for Drews head it was actually a legitimate debate because he was still on our team.

[helmetguy]

So, what about the woefully slow start of JP. Is that a legitimate concern?

[The King]

To be honest as of right now I am glad it worked out for someone. Just because Drew left Buffalo that doesnt mean we have to stop rooting for him. A lot of people still like him. I agree with you in the sense that he wasnt right for us... is JP? I dont know.

But I do like the fact that Drew is proving a lot of people wrong.

I think you need to deal with the fact that some people still like him.

[Novacane]

So, what about the woefully slow start of JP. Is that a legitimate concern?


Absolutely. But saying we should have kept Drew does not solve anything.

[mybills]

I saw an interview with him yesterday, that took me back a little. I can't remember the interviewers name, so let's call him Bob. Here's how it went. Don't quote me on it word for word, though.

Bob: So what kinds of sports did you play while growing up?
Drew: Everything, baseball, football, basketball, you name it.
Bob: Why did you decide on football out of all of them?
Drew: I was better at it.
Bob: How old were you?
Drew: I was in seventh grade when my buddy beat me out as QB, but he moved away in 8th grade and gave me his position on the team.
Bob: Aren't you glad he moved away then?
Drew: Yeah, otherwise I'd have to work for a living now.

:eek:

[Mini Mouse]

JP is a bust.

[Novacane]

To be honest as of right now I am glad it worked out for someone. Just because Drew left Buffalo that doesnt mean we have to stop rooting for him. A lot of people still like him. I agree with you in the sense that he wasnt right for us... is JP? I dont know.

But I do like the fact that Drew is proving a lot of people wrong.

I think you need to deal with the fact that some people still like him.



Did I say you need to stop rooting for him? Did I say you should not like him anymore? Did I say you should be sad he is having success? I guess you just read what you wanted so I'll say it again. Saying we should have kept Drew is a waste of time. He is gone and we can't get him back if we wanted to. The fact is we don't know what he would have done if still on our team. Niether the amigos or the DLC do.

[Philagape]

JP is a bust.

Yup, he'll never ever get better, never learn, never grow. Three games = career.

[TacklingDummy]

Maybe Drew wasn't the problem?

Maybe it was the play calling, coaching staff and front office?

[The King]

Did I say you need to stop rooting for him? Did I say you should not like him anymore? Did I say you should be sad he is having success? I guess you just read what you wanted so I'll say it again. Saying we should have kept Drew is a waste of time. He is gone and we can't get him back if we wanted to. The fact is we don't know what he would have done if still on our team. Niether the amigos or the DLC do.
Well the only people I have seen say that have been trolls for the most part. I think the debate between us zoners...or for me anyway, is between Holcomb and JP. That should be the focus... I agree with you. Hindsight is just dumb.

[Mini Mouse]

Yup, he'll never ever get better, never learn, never grow. Three games = career.
I don't think any of the great QBs in the game were as cocky as Mini Mouse without first stepping on the field. All that talk you Mini Mouse devotees eat us is just that. Talk.

[finsrclowns]

He's gone. Can't undo what is done. Deal with it crybabies. At least when the amigos were calling for Drews head it was actually a legitimate debate because he was still on our team.

I happen to agree with you that we should just let it go, but then again I think it's funny that you are right there every single time DB is mentioned, even starting dumb@ss threads like this just to find a way to keep kicking at him. :sorry: People are entitled to talk about whatever they want on this board. We read you and your fellow genius's incessant whining for 1000000 threads in the last couple of years about DB, yet a couple posts about him now that he's gone he's gone has your panties in a bunch. Why don't you just deal with it? :bighug:

[Mini Mouse]

I happen to agree with you that we should just let it go, but then again I think it's funny that you are right there every single time DB is mentioned, even starting dumb@ss threads like this just to find a way to keep kicking at him. :sorry: People are entitled to talk about whatever they want on this board. We read you and your fellow genius's incessant whining for 1000000 threads in the last couple of years about DB, yet a couple posts about him now that he's gone he's gone has your panties in a bunch. Why don't you just deal with it? :bighug:
They can't deal with it because the truth hurts.

[Philagape]

I don't think any of the great QBs in the game were as cocky as Mini Mouse without first stepping on the field. All that talk you Mini Mouse devotees eat us is just that. Talk.

Quickest path to the ignore list: refer to yourself in the third person.

[Philagape]

Maybe Drew wasn't the problem?

Maybe it was the play calling, coaching staff and front office?

The answer is both ... Drew needs perfect conditions to succeed, and we didn't provide that. If you're a one-dimensional QB who folds when things go wrong, Buffalo is not the place for you.

[Novacane]

I happen to agree with you that we should just let it go, but then again I think it's funny that you are right there every single time DB is mentioned, even starting dumb@ss threads like this just to find a way to keep kicking at him. :sorry: People are entitled to talk about whatever they want on this board. We read you and your fellow genius's incessant whining for 1000000 threads in the last couple of years about DB, yet a couple posts about him now that he's gone he's gone has your panties in a bunch. Why don't you just deal with it? :bighug:

No truth in your post:

1. "a couple posts"? :rofl: You guys are catching up fast with our amount of posts. If JP keeps sucking and Drew keeps playing well it will be even in no time.


2. "starting dumb@ss threads like this just to find a way to keep kicking at him" Guess you can't read if you think this thread was a kick at Drew

3. At least you are right about one thing. People have a right to talk about whatever they want. I have a right to say it's stupid :up:

[finsrclowns]

No truth in your post:

1. "a couple posts"? :rofl: You guys are catching up fast with our amount of posts. If JP keeps sucking and Drew keeps playing well it will be even in no time.

:lmao: Not even if the entire Cowboys fandom joined Billszone. Shoot you Cynical, Tatonka and the rest of the "amigos" have 40000 "Bledsoe sucks" posts between you.



2. "starting dumb@ss threads like this just to find a way to keep kicking at him" Guess you can't read if you think this thread was a kick at Drew

Maybe not at him directly but calling anyone who posts about him a "crybaby" is a kick at them. Not that I care personally. I say "keep the dumb@ss posts coming". :lol:


3. At least you are right about one thing. People have a right to talk about whatever they want. I have a right to say it's stupid :up:

Not as stupid as this thread. :comedy:

[Mr. Cynical]

The difference is this.....

Drew had NINE SEASONS under his belt before the Amigos called for his head.
JP has THREE GAMES under his and the DLC is calling for his head.

This isn't even a debate. It's foolishness at this point.

[finsrclowns]

The difference is this.....

Drew had NINE SEASONS under his belt before the Amigos called for his head.
JP has THREE GAMES under his and the DLC is calling for his head.

This isn't even a debate. It's foolishness at this point.

The hue and cry last year from the amigo's was "we can't be any worse off with Losman than Bledsoe". You yourself must have said it a thousand times. I was skeptical of that not because Losman isn't talented but simply because he's raw but I deferred then as I do now to the wisdom of our GM and coaches. So far at least Losman has shown only that he's not ready for prime time. Is this shocking? Not to me. Are we down on JP? Not really, we just want to win games and not flush another season. And if we lose next week we're in mortal danger of doing just that. And THAT's not foolishness.

[Iehoshua]

The difference is this.....

Drew had NINE SEASONS under his belt before the Amigos called for his head.
JP has THREE GAMES under his and the DLC is calling for his head.

This isn't even a debate. It's foolishness at this point.
They're using it as a crutch to defend their stance. "JP has sucked see we knew it! Drew is great in Dallas!" three games into the season no less... Makes me wonder if some people sleep with their Drew bobbleheads or something.

[Mr. Cynical]

The hue and cry last year from the amigo's was "we can't be any worse off with Losman than Bledsoe". You yourself must have said it a thousand times. I was skeptical of that not because Losman isn't talented but simply because he's raw but I deferred then as I do now to the wisdom of our GM and coaches. So far at least Losman has shown only that he's not ready for prime time. Is this shocking? Not to me. Are we down on JP? Not really, we just want to win games and not flush another season. And if we lose next week we're in mortal danger of doing just that. And THAT's not foolishness.
IMO, we are not worse off with JP regardless of his play so far. Drew had his chances and failed. He was a vet and was not going to get better. JP however is a rookie and has his whole career ahead of him. Therefore, by playing JP now we are better off, even though it may not seem like it to some.

[BuffaloRanger]

Bledsoe sucks. He fumbled the ball twice in the 4th Qtr against the Steelers with the playoffs on the line. It was time for a change. Horrible play-calling, like running fast freddie on 3rd and 2 from the 15 is not helping the Bills.

Cheering for Bledsoe now means cheering for the Cowboys. That means you are not a real Bills fan. Damn right I said it. If you are a fan of a team that beat the Bills in 2 SBs you cannot also be a Bills fan.

[Iehoshua]

Bledsoe sucks. He fumbled the ball twice in the 4th Qtr against the Steelers with the playoffs on the line. It was time for a change. Horrible play-calling, like running fast freddie on 3rd and 2 from the 15 is not helping the Bills.

Cheering for Bledsoe now means cheering for the Cowboys. That means you are not a real Bills fan. Damn right I said it. If you are a fan of a team that beat the Bills in 2 SBs you cannot also be a Bills fan.
Post of the year.

:bf1:
:hi5:

[Iehoshua]

:wtf: If you look at everything this way you can just go back to iraq, you terrorist.
:wtf:

This seems uncalled for, but I have no idea what you are talking about.

Comparing being a fan to being a terrorist? Whoah nellie, calm down. Totally different, get your head screwed on straight. It's just football.

[finsrclowns]

IMO, we are not worse off with JP regardless of his play so far. Drew had his chances and failed. He was a vet and was not going to get better. JP however is a rookie and has his whole career ahead of him. Therefore, by playing JP now we are better off, even though it may not seem like it to some.

I see. So JP's play can continue to be poor and we're still better off? :scratch: At what point, if any, do we stop being "better off"?

[The King]

:wtf:This seems uncalled for, but I have no idea what you are talking about.Comparing being a fan to being a terrorist? Whoah nellie, calm down. Totally different, get your head screwed on straight. It's just football.You're absolutley right I was in the middle of adjusting it as you quoted me. I was being sarcastic about the terrorist thing BTW.


Bledsoe sucks. He fumbled the ball twice in the 4th Qtr against the Steelers with the playoffs on the line. It was time for a change. Horrible play-calling, like running fast freddie on 3rd and 2 from the 15 is not helping the Bills.Cheering for Bledsoe now means cheering for the Cowboys. That means you are not a real Bills fan. Damn right I said it. If you are a fan of a team that beat the Bills in 2 SBs you cannot also be a Bills fan.If you love the sport you can root for whatever teams you want. The Cowboys are a completely different team than they were in the 90's, they are not a division rival, we play them once every 4 years!? I am rooting for Dallas because I want to see Drew do well, that doesnt take away anything from being a Bills fan I still drove 8 hours to get to the opener and I still post on a Bills fanpage 30 times a day. I also root for the Bears because Jerry Azumah is UNH alumni and a hell of a guy. Root for who-ever you want as long as when they go head to head you are rooting fot the Bills, who cares?

[Ebenezer]

The answer is both ... Drew needs perfect conditions to succeed, and we didn't provide that. If you're a one-dimensional QB who folds when things go wrong, Buffalo is not the place for you.
and the conditions for JP to succeed in are???

[Iehoshua]

You're absolutley right I was in the middle of adjusting it as you quoted me. I was being sarcastic about the terrorist thing BTW.
I thought so, ok cool.


If you love the sport you can root for whatever teams you want. The Cowboys are a completely different team than they were in the 90's, they are not a division rival, we play them once every 4 years!? I am rooting for Dallas because I want to see Drew do well, that doesnt take away anything from being a Bills fan I still drove 8 hours to get to the opener and I still post on a Bills fanpage 30 times a day. I also root for the Bears because Jerry Azumah is UNH alumni and a hell of a guy. Root for who-ever you want as long as when they go head to head you are rooting fot the Bills, who cares?

I agree as long as you stay true to the Bills than you can do what I call "adopting" another team. I usually adopt another team if the Bills are eliminated (quite often the past few years :ill: ) but always Bills fan at heart.

[Iehoshua]

and the conditions for JP to succeed in are???
An offensive line would help, for starters.

Most important, he needs experience. Not every QB is gonna be a Brady or Big Ben.

[Ebenezer]

An offensive line would help, for starters.

Most important, he needs experience. Not every QB is gonna be a Brady or Big Ben.
OL was the excuse for DB, RJ and T Collins...next.

[finsrclowns]

Bledsoe sucks. He fumbled the ball twice in the 4th Qtr against the Steelers with the playoffs on the line. It was time for a change. Horrible play-calling, like running fast freddie on 3rd and 2 from the 15 is not helping the Bills.

Cheering for Bledsoe now means cheering for the Cowboys. That means you are not a real Bills fan. Damn right I said it. If you are a fan of a team that beat the Bills in 2 SBs you cannot also be a Bills fan.

News flash: the Steelers 2nd teamers won the battle at the LOS on both sides of the ball that day. I was there. The Bills as a team, including DB, had a let down after a great run. You can say DB had a poor game and I wouldn't disagree. But a poor game doesn't mean DB sucks any more than 3 INT's in a SB means Jim Kelly sucks.

As for cheering for Bledsoe, again your take is over the top. Rooting for former players to do well doesn't make you less of a fan of your team. Players come and go in this league and we all have our favs. Changing laundry doesn't mean we have to root against them, unless we're playing them. And one more thing, with all due respect, you don't get to decide who is or isn't a Bills fan. :sorry:

[Iehoshua]

OL was the excuse for DB, RJ and T Collins...next.
Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Perhaps if you read it over and over it will sink in. ;) :jk:

[Iehoshua]

And one more thing, with all due respect, you don't get to decide who is or isn't a Bills fan. :sorry:
That's 100% right.

I get to decide.

This week, finsrclowns IS a Bills fan.
:up:

[Ebenezer]

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Experience. Please read the entire post. He's started 3 games. Not every QB is gonna come out like Brady and Big Ben did.

Perhaps if you read it over and over it will sink in. ;) :jk:
I didn't miss it...I forgot to edit that part out...all players need experience that is a given.

[Iehoshua]

I didn't miss it...I forgot to edit that part out...all players need experience that is a given.
Exactly.

JP has very little experience. You've answered your own question.
:smile:

[Ebenezer]

Exactly.

JP has very little experience. You've answered your own question.
:smile:
Todd Collins has experience...RJ had experience...Akili Smith had experience...experience is no guarentee of success...your assumption that allowing him to age two years will solve all the problems and he'll be an all-star...that's a fallacy and wishful thinking...hopefully in two years we can say that it was worth it...if not it's lots of years to rebuild...again.

[The King]

And one more thing, with all due respect, you don't get to decide who is or isn't a Bills fan. :sorry:
Thats kind of where I was going to go with the terrorist thing... didnt work out.

[Iehoshua]

Todd Collins has experience...RJ had experience...Akili Smith had experience...experience is no guarentee of success...
If course it isn't. However Collins, RJ, and Smith all had more than 3 starts to learn, improve, then prove themselves.

[finsrclowns]

That's 100% right.

I get to decide.

This week, finsrclowns IS a Bills fan.
:up:

:lmao:

[Mr. Cynical]

Todd Collins has experience...RJ had experience...Akili Smith had experience...experience is no guarentee of success...your assumption that allowing him to age two years will solve all the problems and he'll be an all-star...that's a fallacy and wishful thinking...hopefully in two years we can say that it was worth it...if not it's lots of years to rebuild...again.
Without a doubt, this wins the "Most Obvious Yet Moot Point Ever Made" post of the year.

[Mr. Cynical]

I see. So JP's play can continue to be poor and we're still better off? :scratch: At what point, if any, do we stop being "better off"?
At what point do you fire TD for not fielding a playoff team?

[Valerie]

Cripes! If you guys want Bledsoe back, you can have him. I don't think he's going to do a damn thing for the Cowboys and frankly I can't suffer another three years with him.:wail:

[Novacane]

Cripes! If you guys want Bledsoe back, you can have him. I don't think he's going to do a damn thing for the Cowboys and frankly I can't suffer another three years with him.:wail:


He's 2-1 and only lost last week because the D choked. He's gonna throw for 4500 yds and win MVP and lead the boys to the SB victory!

[Valerie]

He's 2-1 and only lost last week because the D choked. He's gonna throw for 4500 yds and win MVP and lead the boys to the SB victory!
I love to and live to believe and even I don't think that's going to happen. My guess is the 'Boys will be lucky to get a wildcard into the playoffs, which they'll lose in the first round. Wanna make a bet? lol

[finsrclowns]

At what point do you fire TD for not fielding a playoff team?

Nice dodge. I personally have not given up on this season. If the team does go down in flames, noone IMO should be safe including the GM. But that's another issue for another time. Care to answer my question?

[Mr. Cynical]

Nice dodge. I personally have not given up on this season. If the team does go down in flames, noone IMO should be safe including the GM. But that's another issue for another time. Care to answer my question?
It's not a dogde at all. The fate of JP is inextricably linked to the fate of TD and vice versa. So you answered your own question.

[chernobylwraiths]

Donahoe just got a contract extension so he isn't going anywhere.

[DynaPaul]

He's gone. Can't undo what is done. Deal with it crybabies. At least when the amigos were calling for Drews head it was actually a legitimate debate because he was still on our team.

Who's crying to have Drew back? Certainly not me.

[Mr. Cynical]

Donahoe just got a contract extension so he isn't going anywhere.
If JP is a bust and we don't make the playoffs in the next two years, I wouldn't count on that.

[finsrclowns]

He's 2-1 and only lost last week because the D choked. Fact.

He's gonna throw for 4500 yds and win MVP and lead the boys to the SB victory!

I doubt that, their D isn't looking so good, life and death to beat SF isn't encouraging if you're a boys fan. But a return to the Pro Bowl for Bledsoe is quite possible. Parcells knows he needs to give Bledsoe a pocket to throw from to be successful. He never had that here. His line there is giving him a chance to make plays and he's making them. He made plays here early but IMO the tons of hits he took wore him down. If TD doesn't win here it's because he skimped on the OL. Remember though if JP falls on his face don't use the OL card as the excuse because you never bought that with Bledsoe. If Bledsoe succeeds in Dallas it won't be because he's more motivated or he's in the NFC or any other reason- it will be because his OL gave him a fighting chance to succeed. People that can't/won't see that are either in denial or don't understand the game.

[finsrclowns]

It's not a dogde at all. The fate of JP is inextricably linked to the fate of TD and vice versa. So you answered your own question.

Ridiculous. TD drafted JP and gave him the starter's job. He's got solid weapons to use. The line is suspect but no worse than Bledsoe had and JP is supposed to have the legs Bledsoe lacks. What happens next isn't about TD, it isn't about Bledsoe, it isn't about anything other than JP and what he does on the field. So one more time:


So JP's play can continue to be poor and we're still better off? At what point, if any, do we stop being "better off"?

[AndreReed83]

Cripes! If you guys want Bledsoe back, you can have him. I don't think he's going to do a damn thing for the Cowboys and frankly I can't suffer another three years with him.:wail:

I agree with you. So, he's 2-1. I don't care if he has the second overall passer rating. He's played a very controlled game so far. When he has to go out there and sling it around to win it is when he chokes (the Washington game). He's actually made plenty of mistakes this season, but when you win, no one talks about them. I know the Boys came from behind in the two wins so far. One was against a depleted Chargers team who should have one that game at the end anyway. The other was against a 49ers team that if any of competent team in the league had their lead, the Cowboys would have gotten killed. Remember what Bledsoe and the Bills did to teams like the 49ers last year? Killed em. Luckily for Bledsoe and the Cowboys, they have a cake schedule, and probably will end up making the playoffs. But we will see how they do when they face teams like the Falcons and the Buccaneers in the playoffs. Vintage Drew then.

[The_Philster]

As for cheering for Bledsoe, again your take is over the top. Rooting for former players to do well doesn't make you less of a fan of your team. Players come and go in this league and we all have our favs. Changing laundry doesn't mean we have to root against them, unless we're playing them. And one more thing, with all due respect, you don't get to decide who is or isn't a Bills fan. :sorry:Well said :clap:
Who's crying to have Drew back? Certainly not me.Don't confuse them with facts :shakeno:

[Mike13]

To be honest as of right now I am glad it worked out for someone. Just because Drew left Buffalo that doesnt mean we have to stop rooting for him. A lot of people still like him. I agree with you in the sense that he wasnt right for us... is JP? I dont know.

But I do like the fact that Drew is proving a lot of people wrong.

I think you need to deal with the fact that some people still like him.
I always thought he was good, I wanted Saban to bring him in, oh well Ferotte has done OK and I am happy with that.

[711]

I happen to agree with you that we should just let it go, but then again I think it's funny that you are right there every single time DB is mentioned, even starting dumb@ss threads like this just to find a way to keep kicking at him. :sorry: People are entitled to talk about whatever they want on this board. We read you and your fellow genius's incessant whining for 1000000 threads in the last couple of years about DB, yet a couple posts about him now that he's gone he's gone has your panties in a bunch. Why don't you just deal with it? :bighug:
weren't you on The Buffalo Range???

[Mr. Cynical]

Ridiculous. TD drafted JP and gave him the starter's job. He's got solid weapons to use. The line is suspect but no worse than Bledsoe had and JP is supposed to have the legs Bledsoe lacks. What happens next isn't about TD, it isn't about Bledsoe, it isn't about anything other than JP and what he does on the field. So one more time:It is truly amazing how you keep answering your own question yet fail to see it.

At what point do you hold TD to blame and fire him = At what point you cut JP = At what point you stop being "better off".

Get it?

If not, I just don't know what else to say at this point.

[BSXIII]

At what point do you hold TD to blame and fire him = At what point you cut JP = At what point you stop being "better off".

TD has fired all his scapegoats, he needs to be at the front line now. He has been able to get rid of everyone who was holding this team back. If they can't get it done now it is all on him. This is his team. There are no more excuses!!!

[finsrclowns]

It is truly amazing how you keep answering your own question yet fail to see it.

At what point do you hold TD to blame and fire him = At what point you cut JP = At what point you stop being "better off".

Get it?

If not, I just don't know what else to say at this point.

I see. So JP can keep sucking until we know we should cut him and fire the GM? Er.....no. Absent a win, the kid's got 1, maybe 2 games left to show what he's got. Then he sits. Not for forever, but he sits. Doesn't mean he's a bust, doesn't mean he won't get back in, doesn't mean the season's over, doesn't mean the GM has to go. But it does mean IMO that at least in the short term that we weren't "better off" starting Losman in the first place than Bledsoe. I'm not asking about some cosmic 5 year macro picture. This year. Right now. Get it?

[finsrclowns]

weren't you on The Buffalo Range???

Before I came here. But I don't remember you. Were you always 711 or were you another convenience store? :D:

[Mr. Cynical]

I see. So JP can keep sucking until we know we should cut him and fire the GM? Er.....no.
Er...yes. IMO TD's job hangs in the balance with JP's success. He made his bed by trading all those picks to get him and we need to find out if he is the real deal or not as soon as possible so that we don't waste another 3 years like we did with Drew. TD has already made two colossal mistakes w/ GW and Drew, and as the old saying goes, three strikes and you're out.

And I still don't understand what on this planet makes you think Holcomb is going to get the team anywhere. Please show me any data or rational logic to support that assessment. IMO, playing Holcomb just postpones the inevitable. Another non-playoff season.

[Ebenezer]

Er...yes. IMO TD's job hangs in the balance with JP's success.


That we can agree on...and I believe that is why he got the extention...basically JP has to be the answer by the end of that extension or it's over.

[BillsFever21]

The Cowboys had to come from behind against the 49ers got 14 points off of Drew's turnovers.

[Novacane]

Who's crying to have Drew back? Certainly not me.


Did I name you or anyone for that matter?


Don't confuse them with facts :shakeno:


The facts are there are posters saying we should have kept Drew. Comparing what Drew is doing with what JP is doing, saying we would be 2-1 if Drew was still here, making polls about whether we should have kept Drew, etc etc etc. I'm not making it up.

[slakjaw157]

Did I name you or anyone for that matter?




The facts are there are posters saying we should have kept Drew. Comparing what Drew is doing with what JP is doing, saying we would be 2-1 if Drew was still here, making polls about whether we should have kept Drew, etc etc etc. I'm not making it up.

If Drew was still here the same people would be shouting to let the kid (JP)play. Now that he is gone they want him back because we are losing games. I think I figured out the formula....... win games = less complaints .

[finsrclowns]

Er...yes. IMO TD's job hangs in the balance with JP's success. He made his bed by trading all those picks to get him and we need to find out if he is the real deal or not as soon as possible so that we don't waste another 3 years like we did with Drew. TD has already made two colossal mistakes w/ GW and Drew, and as the old saying goes, three strikes and you're out.

And I still don't understand what on this planet makes you think Holcomb is going to get the team anywhere. Please show me any data or rational logic to support that assessment. IMO, playing Holcomb just postpones the inevitable. Another non-playoff season.

I don't disagree that TD's future with Buffalo depends on JP being successful. But we're talking maybe 2 years from now. Lots of knee jerk fans will judge JP way before that but I'm not in the "quick judge" camp. That's why I found the whole decision to just give the kid the starting job prior to TC and let Bledsoe go so strange simply because I know it's unusaul for young QB's NOT to struggle. On that point I believe I've already been proven correct.

But that's water under the dam. If this team was miles away from competing I'd be in the "play JP till he gets it" camp. But IMO this team has a chance to compete with the better teams with solid QB play. So far at least JP hasn't delivered that. Is that his fault? Not really, he's green. Would Holcomb do better right now? Personally I'd say that's a given but whether he'd be good enough to lead the team to the playoffs is unknown. But lose next week and IMO TD & co owes the fans the best effort possible to win this year and IMO at that point you'd have to at least see what Holcomb can do. Holcomb already beat out one guy (Tim Couch) who was a 1st overall pick. Noone can know how he'd do given a decent supporting cast because he's never had one. But I guess your answer is play JP no matter what. Glad we finally got that cleared up. :up:

[Mr. Cynical]

I don't disagree that TD's future with Buffalo depends on JP being successful. But we're talking maybe 2 years from now. Lots of knee jerk fans will judge JP way before that but I'm not in the "quick judge" camp. That's why I found the whole decision to just give the kid the starting job prior to TC and let Bledsoe go so strange simply because I know it's unusaul for young QB's NOT to struggle. On that point I believe I've already been proven correct. You need to look at the timing of the decision to let Drew go. TD drafted JP in '04, so he already had been on the team for a year. Drew had 3 years to prove he was worth a #1 and $21M and he never did. He lost confidence in himself and so did alot of the players. (I don't think there is very much to debate on this point, but if you want to agree to disagree that's fine. This point has been beaten to death and we don't need to re-hash it for the 1,352,436,757th time) So given that situation, he had to go.

As for JP struggling, I don't think anyone with a brain thought he would just light it up. This is to be expected, so I guess we're on the same page on that one. :up:


But IMO this team has a chance to compete with the better teams with solid QB play.This is where we disagree again. Look at who we have played and beaten in the past year up to today. 2 wins against teams over .500. I think this team has alot farther to go than you do. JMO.



Holcomb already beat out one guy (Tim Couch) who was a 1st overall pick. Noone can know how he'd do given a decent supporting cast because he's never had one. He "won" the job from Couch (who btw is out of football now) but he played 10 games and that was it. He could not hold on to the starting job. You can blame his supporting cast (which is definitely part of the equation) but you have to remember this is his 9th year and he's never been the starter for a season. Ever. That speaks volumes IMO.


But I guess your answer is play JP no matter what. Glad we finally got that cleared up. :up:Yep, we finally do. :up:

[Rockpile]

Did I say you need to stop rooting for him? Did I say you should not like him anymore? Did I say you should be sad he is having success? I guess you just read what you wanted so I'll say it again. Saying we should have kept Drew is a waste of time. He is gone and we can't get him back if we wanted to. The fact is we don't know what he would have done if still on our team. Niether the amigos or the DLC do.

Oh, stop making sense! :goodpost:

[finsrclowns]

You need to look at the timing of the decision to let Drew go. TD drafted JP in '04, so he already had been on the team for a year. Drew had 3 years to prove he was worth a #1 and $21M and he never did. He lost confidence in himself and so did alot of the players. (I don't think there is very much to debate on this point, but if you want to agree to disagree that's fine. This point has been beaten to death and we don't need to re-hash it for the 1,352,436,757th time) So given that situation, he had to go.

If you look at Bledsoe's record, when he was going to 3 Pro Bowls with NE he had a decent line. When he started getting sacked a lot and playing poorly he didn't. Ironically Bellichick had replaced 3 of the 5 OL starters in NE the year DB got hurt in the 2nd game. The major improvement in OL play was one factor in Brady's success and that continues today. The fact is DB never got the OL support he needed here. TD had a choice of whether to fix the line or go with a more mobile guy at QB and he chose the latter. Personally I think it was a mistake and I think it's going to be rough sledding for JP as well because the teams that win in the NFL do it with very good OL's. Not average, not mediocre, very good. But that's my take and I don't expect you to agree with it. You've got 10k posts invested in an alternate view. :D:


As for JP struggling, I don't think anyone with a brain thought he would just light it up. This is to be expected, so I guess we're on the same page on that one. :up:

I did think he would have his bumps. But having said that so far he's been quite a bit worse than I hoped. That's why it's hard to wait too long if things don't get better quickly. If you dig too deep a hole JP isn't experienced enough to have any realistic chance of pulling us out like last year with Bledsoe.


This is where we disagree again. Look at who we have played and beaten in the past year up to today. 2 wins against teams over .500. I think this team has alot farther to go than you do. JMO.
Notwithstanding the Pitt fiasco we were playing very, very well at the end of last year. We were a team noone wanted to play. There aren't many NE's in this league. In addition, the record was skewed by the bad start without WM and Evans in the starting lineup.



He "won" the job from Couch (who btw is out of football now) but he played 10 games and that was it. He could not hold on to the starting job. You can blame his supporting cast (which is definitely part of the equation) but you have to remember this is his 9th year and he's never been the starter for a season. Ever. That speaks volumes IMO.

Yep, we finally do. :up:

IMO surviving in this league for 9 years is an accomplishment. The road is littered with the corpses of highly drafted QB's that didn't pan out. Holcomb was not a high draft pick and often economics (whether you believe it or not) can play a role in who plays and who sits. I know one thing about Holcomb: he does the one thing that NFL QB's MUST do (with the possible exception of Mike Vick) to be successful- he throws an accurate pass. If we don't see more of those real soon from JP I'd like to see Holcomb get a shot. IMO it's a risk free decision.

[Mr. Cynical]

If you look at Bledsoe's record, when he was going to 3 Pro Bowls with NE he had a decent line. When he started getting sacked a lot and playing poorly he didn't. Ironically Bellichick had replaced 3 of the 5 OL starters in NE the year DB got hurt in the 2nd game. The major improvement in OL play was one factor in Brady's success and that continues today. The fact is DB never got the OL support he needed here. TD had a choice of whether to fix the line or go with a more mobile guy at QB and he chose the latter. Personally I think it was a mistake and I think it's going to be rough sledding for JP as well because the teams that win in the NFL do it with very good OL's. Not average, not mediocre, very good. But that's my take and I don't expect you to agree with it. You've got 10k posts invested in an alternate view. :DWell the thing is, I did look at Drew's record. Those pro bowls you mention were in '94, '96 and '97. Interesting to note in '94 he threw more INTs than TDs and had a stellar 57.9% completion rate, yet still made it in. Kind of makes the pro bowl argument a little weak, but you knew that already. * See Ruben Brown.

In any event it's ancient history. '97 was 8 years ago and Drew is 33. While I agree the oline is a crucial part of the equation, you don't pay someone $8M a year (on average) to play the way he did, especially in critical games. We could have gotten the same results from a journeyman at 1/3 the cost and 1/3 the false hope. He had 3 years here to prove he could do it and he didn't. Anyway, let's close the book on this one. I'm sure we both have close to 10k posts on the matter so we don't need to go around and around. :D


If you dig too deep a hole JP isn't experienced enough to have any realistic chance of pulling us out like last year with Bledsoe.Now that was funny. :;



Notwithstanding the Pitt fiasco we were playing very, very well at the end of last year. We were a team noone wanted to play. There aren't many NE's in this league. In addition, the record was skewed by the bad start without WM and Evans in the starting lineup.Still doesn't mitigate the fact we have only won 2 games in the last 19 against teams with a winning record. Good teams overcome adversity. We are not that good a team or we'd have had more wins against good teams.


IMO surviving in this league for 9 years is an accomplishment. The road is littered with the corpses of highly drafted QB's that didn't pan out. Holcomb was not a high draft pick and often economics (whether you believe it or not) can play a role in who plays and who sits. I know one thing about Holcomb: he does the one thing that NFL QB's MUST do (with the possible exception of Mike Vick) to be successful- he throws an accurate pass. If we don't see more of those real soon from JP I'd like to see Holcomb get a shot. IMO it's a risk free decision.Longevity as a backup doesn't necessarily mean much, as is evidenced by Todd Collins. He survived 7 years in this league. Would you have him start instead of JP? I'm not saying he is better than Holcomb (he's not), but using his 9 years of survival to justify his value is not a very compelling argument.

[finsrclowns]

Well the thing is, I did look at Drew's record. Those pro bowls you mention were in '94, '96 and '97. Interesting to note in '94 he threw more INTs than TDs and had a stellar 57.9% completion rate, yet still made it in. Kind of makes the pro bowl argument a little weak, but you knew that already. * See Ruben Brown.
If JP throws for 4500 yards in his 2nd year I think we'll all be thrilled, Pro Bowl or not, wouldn't you agree? :D:


In any event it's ancient history. '97 was 8 years ago and Drew is 33. While I agree the oline is a crucial part of the equation, you don't pay someone $8M a year (on average) to play the way he did, especially in critical games. We could have gotten the same results from a journeyman at 1/3 the cost and 1/3 the false hope. He had 3 years here to prove he could do it and he didn't. Anyway, let's close the book on this one. I'm sure we both have close to 10k posts on the matter so we don't need to go around and around. :D

2002 Drew rewrote the Bills passing record book. The false hope was giving him the weapons that year without the protection so he wore down and then taking away the weapons the next year and an even worse line (Mike F'N Pucillo??). That's my main beef with TD. 33 isn't that old. He may be revitalized on a team where he's not getting hit on every play. We will see. But in any case he's not here anymore so let's agree to disagree.


Now that was funny. :; If indeed that is funny 10-6 is still possible with JP, right? :D:



Still doesn't mitigate the fact we have only won 2 games in the last 19 against teams with a winning record. Good teams overcome adversity. We are not that good a team or we'd have had more wins against good teams.
Maybe so but we were knocking on the door of being good. Now.... :nervous:


Longevity as a backup doesn't necessarily mean much, as is evidenced by Todd Collins. He survived 7 years in this league. Would you have him start instead of JP? I'm not saying he is better than Holcomb (he's not), but using his 9 years of survival to justify his value is not a very compelling argument.

Holcomb has showed he has something- how much I'm not sure we can tell. If John Elway had been drafted a few years ago by Cleveland he probably would have said no to them like he said no to Baltimore back in '83. Tough situation. On the other hand Collins showed he had nothing. Him surviving that long was a fluke. I'm done debating this because it doesn't even matter. The trickle of discontent you're seeing right now will be a mass revolt if we lose Sunday. The brain trust best be careful how they go from there. :peace:

[Mr. Cynical]

That we can agree on...and I believe that is why he got the extention...basically JP has to be the answer by the end of that extension or it's over.
:hi5:

[footballhottie]

I saw an interview with him yesterday, that took me back a little. I can't remember the interviewers name, so let's call him Bob. Here's how it went. Don't quote me on it word for word, though. Bob: So what kinds of sports did you play while growing up?Drew: Everything, baseball, football, basketball, you name it.Bob: Why did you decide on football out of all of them?Drew: I was better at it. Bob: How old were you?Drew: I was in seventh grade when my buddy beat me out as QB, but he moved away in 8th grade and gave me his position on the team. Bob: Aren't you glad he moved away then? Drew: Yeah, otherwise I'd have to work for a living now. :eek::roflmao: He couldnt even be a QB in middle school

[Mr. Cynical]

The trickle of discontent you're seeing right now will be a mass revolt if we lose Sunday. The brain trust best be careful how they go from there. :peace:IF they let JP play the whole season, then personally I'm going to reserve judgement until the end of the year. If they f**k around with a QB carousel and don't commit to someone they used three picks to get last year, then I will definitely be upset before the end of the season.

My final point is this - I'm willing to give it a year to get setup for true run next year and the year after. IMHO, we're not "on the verge" and I don't want to use a Band-Aid to stop the bleeding. Do the surgery now and be truly strong the following year. Or....if the surgery goes badly, then fire the doctor (TD) and start over. :peace:

[Ebenezer]

IF they let JP play the whole season, then personally I'm going to reserve judgement until the end of the year. If they f**k around with a QB carousel and don't commit to someone they used three picks to get last year, then I will definitely be upset before the end of the season.

My final point is this - I'm willing to give it a year to get setup for true run next year and the year after. IMHO, we're not "on the verge" and I don't want to use a Band-Aid to stop the bleeding. Do the surgery now and be truly strong the following year. Or....if the surgery goes badly, then fire the doctor (TD) and start over. :peace:
If the goal was the future and possibly winning I can see and they REALLY thought they couldn't get any better with Bledsoe at the helm then I can see that...I just want the playoffs so badly...I don't want to see this team go mediocre and tease the hell out of the fans for the rest of Ralph's life and then he dies...and then the team moves...the sun is setting on making hay...got to win before Ralph passes.

[Mr. Cynical]

If the goal was the future and possibly winning I can see and they REALLY thought they couldn't get any better with Bledsoe at the helm then I can see that...I just want the playoffs so badly...I don't want to see this team go mediocre and tease the hell out of the fans for the rest of Ralph's life and then he dies...and then the team moves...the sun is setting on making hay...got to win before Ralph passes.I hear ya. :(

I think the problem for alot of us fans is that we were so dominant in the early/mid 90s that it's hard to accept the fact that we need to completely overhaul the team. We had a little spark in the late 90s which started the "teasing", but since 2000 we've honestly been in the same league as Cleveland, Cincy, Detroit and Arizona. That's not something any Bills fan wants to hear, but the records are pretty similar.

Personally I thought we'd truly clean house after the '01 season (3-13) and start on the road to recovery. However it didn't happen...at least not yet...but it has been 4 years since then. I really think it's time for a new GM but it all is going to hinge on JP (as we've agreed). As for the playoffs...and I've said this in other threads for a long time...I'd rather take my lumps (for real) and then build a strong foundation instead of being teased and trying to squeak in and lose in the first round.

[Ebenezer]

I hear ya. :(

I think the problem for alot of us fans is that we were so dominant in the early/mid 90s that it's hard to accept the fact that we need to completely overhaul the team. We had a little spark in the late 90s which started the "teasing", but since 2000 we've honestly been in the same league as Cleveland, Cincy, Detroit and Arizona. That's not something any Bills fan wants to hear, but the records are pretty similar.

Personally I thought we'd truly clean house after the '01 season (3-13) and start on the road to recovery. However it didn't happen...at least not yet...but it has been 4 years since then. I really think it's time for a new GM but it all is going to hinge on JP (as we've agreed). As for the playoffs...and I've said this in other threads for a long time...I'd rather take my lumps (for real) and then build a strong foundation instead of trying to squeak in and lose in the first round.


Actually, and I have said this before...2002 was an abberation...they weren't supposed to go 8-8...they caught lightning in a bottle and went with it...think of the players on that team...they were supposed to suck for 2001 and 2002 and GW would be fired...many around here and in the media thought GW was a boner and we were right. When they went 8-8 they had no choice but to bring back GW or look foolish. That pushed back the real push a year. IMO, this team is a year behind because of the 2002 success.

My concern for the playoffs is fundamental to keeping the team. The fans have to go to the stadium. The team has to be good to get the fans out there. As much as I love the team and want them to stay I can't envision RW living to be 100. When he dies they go. I'm sorry, there is a bigger thing going on here. This town will not rally to put up that kind of money. This is an area where rich people who send their kids to private schools fight tax increases of $29 a year (at least in Orchard Park they do). I can't see somebody having enough money to buy the team when Ralph dies.

Sorry to be a downer, just my thoughts.

[finsrclowns]

IF they let JP play the whole season, then personally I'm going to reserve judgement until the end of the year. If they f**k around with a QB carousel and don't commit to someone they used three picks to get last year, then I will definitely be upset before the end of the season.

My final point is this - I'm willing to give it a year to get setup for true run next year and the year after. IMHO, we're not "on the verge" and I don't want to use a Band-Aid to stop the bleeding. Do the surgery now and be truly strong the following year. Or....if the surgery goes badly, then fire the doctor (TD) and start over. :peace:

How much different will this team look in 2006? 2007? I dunno...... :crazed:

[Mr. Cynical]

How much different will this team look in 2006? 2007? I dunno...... :crazed:
If we go 1-15, ALOT different. :;

[Ebenezer]

If we go 1-15, ALOT different. :;
In this day in age it will look a lot different regardless the record.

[Mr. Cynical]

In this day in age it will look a lot different regardless the record.
True, although IMO if we go 1-15 there is a good chance TD gets canned. I know, I know...he just signed a contract extension. However even Ralph has his limits. I don't think he can tolerate a 1-15 season after 5 years of no playoffs and no playoff wins since 1995. JMO.

[Gerald Whalen]

What did I tell you?! Bledsoe is a dern loosa! We's don't need that dern statute of a Quartrback on this team! Yous people don't watch football, I's watched a Patriot game with Beldsoe and he threw too mandy dern intaceptions. I's rememba, it's gonna happun!!