Does the Winborn talk....

[OpIv37]

show a lack of confidence in Crowell as a starter? Or is it just because we need more depth at the position? Currently there are at least 6 active linebackers on the roster- Posey, Fletcher, Crowell, Haggan, Stamer, and now Liam Ezekiel. The Bills base is a 4-3, so six linebackers should be more than enough to cover the position adequately.

Obviously Crowell's not as good as Spikes, but Spikes is arguably the best linebacker in the game right now. I'm wondering if the Bills coaching staff is having doubts.

Also, from the other Winborn thread it seems that he's not the best run-stuffer. Given the lack of success that our run D had even with Spikes, is there a better option out there? Our pass rush has been fine between Schobel, Kelsay, and blitzes.

:feedback:

[Ickybaluky]

Also, from the other Winborn thread it seems that he's not the best run-stuffer.

I think his strength is playing the run. When healthy, the guy makes a lot of tackles. He isn't the type to take on a lot of blockers, but he is a very effective player in chasing guys down with this speed. He is a very high-intensity player who can be real disruptive.

If you are looking for a comparison, his physically is similar to Tedy Bruschi in that is short and stocky with a high motor. His style of play is more like Ian Gold of Denver. The guy is a real good player in the right scheme.

[Ickybaluky]

One other thing...

Winborn is considered a good character guy as well. He is a bible-belt Christian who is very popular with his teammates.

[OpIv37]

One other thing...

Winborn is considered a good character guy as well. He is a bible-belt Christian who is very popular with his teammates.

that's good to know as long as he doesn't publicly make any homophobic comments like Reggie White.

My guess is that he's an improvement over Stamer, Hagan and Crowell, who I don't believe have any NFL starts amongst the three of them. It's reassuring that the Bills' brass is trying to make a move rather than just accepting the bad breaks. Too bad they don't feel the same way about the o line (but that topic's :deadhorse: around here).

[Novacane]

show a lack of confidence in Crowell as a starter? :


yes

[OpIv37]

yes

I really think he did well as a back-up, but he's just not a sufficient replacement for Spikes (although there's only a handful of guys in the league that are, and there's no way we're getting anywhere near any of them).

[Jan Reimers]

I've always been a little disappointed with Crowell. He was a 3rd round pick a few years ago in a draft that had a lot of good players still available when we took him. I hope he can get the job done, because he will prove to be a wasted pick if he is nothing more than a career backup.

[casdhf]

if we can get him at a reasonable price, why not do it? we won't lose anything by cutting him.

[Jan Reimers]

I read that Winborn is a real speed guy who puts a lot of pressure on the QB, but is somewhat undisciplined and depends a lot on his athleticism.

Sounds like a perfect replacement for TKO.

[madness]

Sign him now!!!

It's not about confidence in Crowell, it's about adding another starter. JW has speed and our defense is built for speed. I would love to see him blitzing off the corner like he did in SF. (when healthy) Both fans and players love him and he is a great locker room presence.

Plus..If we sign him, I bet he challenges Posey for a starting position next year. None of our backups are that worthy.

JW is an automatic upgrade any way you look at it. :up:

[LifetimeBillsFan]

I've always been a little disappointed with Crowell. He was a 3rd round pick a few years ago in a draft that had a lot of good players still available when we took him. I hope he can get the job done, because he will prove to be a wasted pick if he is nothing more than a career backup.
I don't know if it has been a case of Crowell not getting a chance to play because he had a better player in front of him or if he really has lost something, but I saw Crowell play in college and was delighted that the Bills drafted him because he was a tackling machine at UVa.

He's not the same kind of player that Spikes is--the kind of impact player who has a flair for making a big play--but, at least in college, was the kind of guy who would be in the right place at the right time to make the play that he was expected to make. He won't turn the ball over for you like Spikes, but, again in college, he was the kind of guy who would get better as the game wore on and would make the stop that you needed him to make--at the end of the game you would look and see that he had 10-15 tackles.

Now, I haven't seen him play much for Buffalo and the only times I've really seen him in games for any length of time he was playing with the second team. So, being the kind of player that he is, it's kind of hard to tell just how well he will do. One thing is for sure, he's not going to replace Spikes because that's not the kind of player that he is. But, he could end up being being a good, reliable player.

As far as Winborn goes, one of the reasons that Nolan told him to clean out his locker is that Winborn is undisciplined and refused to play within the scheme of the defense. That can allow a guy to make plays, but it can also be a bad thing because he will get caught out of position a lot. Most DCs don't like "free lancers" unless they are extremely athletically gifted, which allows them to recover quickly when they get "caught out". I don't know that Winborn is athletic enough for him to make enough big plays and make up for getting caught out of position when he 'free lances". He's not a talent like TKO.

[Tatonka]

has anyone seen the bills acknowledge that they are looking at winborn at all?

[ParanoidAndroid]

I like Crowell. He has some real talent. I don't think signing Winborn says anything about him in particular, especially because he has been getting occassional reps on defense. It says more about our other backups, Stamer, Haggan, and Ezekiel. That is an extremely weak set of back-ups.

We couldn't get a LB this good if we drafted one in the third round, and he's fairly young, so trading away a 3rd or 4th makes a lot of sense, especially since we need to start adding youth to the defense.

Next year's top three picks?
DT (we need 1st round talent here)
CB (unless we resign Clements in which case we find Moulds' replacement)
OL (super deep draft for OL)

we could also use 1st day talent at FS. Vincent is 35 years old, man.

[X-Era]

show a lack of confidence in Crowell as a starter? Or is it just because we need more depth at the position? Currently there are at least 6 active linebackers on the roster- Posey, Fletcher, Crowell, Haggan, Stamer, and now Liam Ezekiel. The Bills base is a 4-3, so six linebackers should be more than enough to cover the position adequately.

Obviously Crowell's not as good as Spikes, but Spikes is arguably the best linebacker in the game right now. I'm wondering if the Bills coaching staff is having doubts.

Also, from the other Winborn thread it seems that he's not the best run-stuffer. Given the lack of success that our run D had even with Spikes, is there a better option out there? Our pass rush has been fine between Schobel, Kelsay, and blitzes.

:feedback:
Umm to me its us feeling like losing TKO and replcaing him with a career backup may cost us the playoffs. May seem a bit crazy for us to be thinking playoffs after the eggs we just laid, but I think the Bills arent willing to throw out the season yet. If they were, why in the hell would they be looking for a 1 year replcaement for Spikes?

I seriously believe that the Bills arent as down on their team as most of us are and that they believe they will be in competition for a playoff spot this year. Then it makes sense for us to pursue a player to step in for Spikes and not allow a huge drop off that may cost games.

Just my 2 cents, but I could argue that with NE looking beatable, Miami sure to NOT be in the playoffs (only a matter of time until they start to look like we know they are), and the Jets losing their starting QB for the year, that we are in a position to make the playoffs. I see it as possible but we have to not only beat the teams we should beat but start beating some of the teams we shouldnt beat.

[Italian Stallion]

As soon as i read the report that he was cleaning out his locker, I pretty much figured that the Bills were gonna be involved somehow. Too much depth is never a bad thing, and Crowell will need someone pushing him if he's gonna start. But if all goes according to plan, Jamie will come in here and start as soon as he gets the defense down pat.

Do it TD

[Lexwhat]

Just my 2 cents, but I could argue that with NE looking beatable, Miami sure to NOT be in the playoffs (only a matter of time until they start to look like we know they are), and the Jets losing their starting QB for the year, that we are in a position to make the playoffs. I see it as possible but we have to not only beat the teams we should beat but start beating some of the teams we shouldnt beat.

I hate the Pats and Dolphins, but I think you are being a homer. NE just beat the Steelers in Pittsburgh. Tell me how many teams in the NFL would have pulled off that victory? The Bills? Not a chance.

The fact is, Miami is playing well and there's no getting around that. They are getting the most out of their talent through excellent coaching. Both Saban and Belichick know what they are doing. It's ridiculous to say that Miami is "sure to NOT be in the playoffs." The Bills are the ones that need to work to get even with Miami. Sorry, but it's the truth.

With that being said, I still have hope as well. I think if JP can improve, and Mularkey and Clements start to get their heads out of their asses, we can get back to a higher level. So Jp-era, I agree with your assessment of Buffalo, but not with NE and Miami.

[Bert102176]

yeah and NE had an extra 52 seconds on the clock who knows what would have happened in that game had the refs not screwed up once again and NE made the game winning fg with only 1 or 2 seconds left on the clock