Can we now be honest with ourselves?

[Mr. Cynical]

This team is NOT good enough to make the playoffs no matter what there is on paper or what OBD put in the Kool Aid. There needs to be some major changes made, including the firing of TD.

5 years, no playoffs = incompetent GM.

Period.

[ArcticWildMan]

More and more we are looking like the Redskins...lots of nice names on the roster but we can't seem to play come game day. :(

[BAM]

Yah. Buffalo sucks.

[Billsouth]

this reminds me of the 2003 season when we beat the pats opening day and sucked every game after!!!

[Mr. Cynical]

Yah. Buffalo sucks.
I hate to agree, but you're right. It is the cold, hard truth and has been for quite a while now.

Get out the axe.....time to start at the top.

[BAM]

Yah.

I am as optimistic as anyone, but sometimes you have to face the truth.

So far this season... we have sucked. IF nothing changes, we will suck the whole year.

[Historian]

Agreed Cynical.

We need a real football guy directing football operations, not some high school english teacher.

[TacklingDummy]

The Defense has played well enough for the Bills to win every game this year.
It's to bad the offense is pathetic.

[RedEyE]

I think TD did what he needed to do. He alleviated our salary cap issues. Now it's time to send his ass packing. He can take Sam Wyche with him.

I'm pissed off today!

[TheBrownBear]

Reality has struck. Without Bledsoe to blame I've come to the conclusion that this team just plain sucks.

[Mr. Cynical]

Agreed Cynical.

We need a real football guy directing football operations, not some high school english teacher.TD's playoff record since being GM of the Pittsburgh '97 playoff team:

'98 (Pitt): 7-9. NO PLAYOFFS.
'99 (Pitt): 6-10. NO PLAYOFFS.
'01: 3-13. NO PLAYOFFS.
'02: 8-8. NO PLAYOFFS.
'03: 6-10. NO PLAYOFFS.
'04: 9-7. NO PLAYOFFS.
'05: 1-3. Take a guess....

7 STRAIGHT SEASONS. NO PLAYOFFS.

Still think he should be our GM?

[unpaid_bills]

I think we have the talent to make the playoffs. Problem is the WE are not making plays plain and simple. Te D is holding teams down, we cant score TD's and Pass the ball. I say give Holcmb a shot he at least has some experience. JP looks real bad, no confidence, and seems to be getting worse.

I honestly think TD has brought in the right players. The coaches have to put the right players in the right spot, and the players need to make plays. I think when a team performs like this for the 3rd game in a row you have plenty of fingers to point. All i am saying its not all TD's fault. How the F do you fall down over your own man McGee? How do we not keep feeding Willis the ball - he was running all over himself? How do we make Stallworth look like an All Pro? Where are Moulds and Evans? JP and Homcob neither one seems to be able to throw a decent pass. At this point behind this OL any QB is a sitting duck. Play calling is average at best. D gives up big plays on 3rd down. Offense cant convert a 3rd down. I am sure i missed many, so there is plenty of blame when you play like this.

[RedEyE]

I think Modrak is an obvious choice. See ya later TD. :wave:

[Mr. Cynical]

I think we have the talent to make the playoffs. Problem is the WE are not making plays plain and simple. Te D is holding teams down, we cant score TD's and Pass the ball. I say give Holcmb a shot he at least has some experience. JP looks real bad, no confidence, and seems to be getting worse.

I honestly think TD has brought in the right players. The coaches have to put the right players in the right spot, and the players need to make plays. I think when a team performs like this for the 3rd game in a row you have plenty of fingers to point. All i am saying its not all TD's fault. How the F do you fall down over your own man McGee? How do we not keep feeding Willis the ball - he was running all over himself? How do we make Stallworth look like an All Pro? Where are Moulds and Evans? JP and Homcob neither one seems to be able to throw a decent pass. At this point behind this OL any QB is a sitting duck. Play calling is average at best. D gives up big plays on 3rd down. Offense cant convert a 3rd down. I am sure i missed many, so there is plenty of blame when you play like this.
I hear you, but at some point you have to say "enough is enough". Regardless of who is doing what on the field, the GM is ultimately responsible for the team's success. The team failing means the GM is failing, so at some point you have to make THE change.

And that means firing TD. And to be honest I don't think I'll miss MM either, since outside of his good attitude he has not shown me anything to believe he can take this team anywhere.

[Arod3619]

Hey guys ive been coming to this site for about 3 years and last year i think i joined after one of the many painful loses. i havent really posted much i usually come to see what you guys say but after today i really feel like giving up. I mean i have tickets to go up to buffalo next week and its a pretty long trip for me which i make every year and i can honestly say this is the first year im not even looking forward to going. Ive been as optimistic as i can for the past years but the fact that the last playoff image i have is that tennessee game im about ready to give up and stop watching football this year. Maybe things will change, hopefully........

[Historian]

Is it just me, or does McGahee look like he's running with a diaper full of crap in it on?

[Kerr]

Is it just me, or does McGahee look like he's running with a diaper full of crap in it on?

He's running with a gold plated diaper on.

[Mr. Cynical]

Is it just me, or does McGahee look like he's running with a diaper full of crap in it on?
Well, if WM and JP do end up busting (which is not what I think...just hypothetical) then TD's fate is all but sealed.

[RedEyE]

This season might be the most dissapointing season I can ever remember watching. I'm not jumping off the band wagon, but I can think of a hell of a lot of other things to do with my time and money (DirecTv etc) on Sundays. I have to take a couple weeks break.

I really feel like flying up to Buffalo and kicking TD right square in the balls.


Here is a list of my demands:

1) Fire TD after this season
2) Give Modrak the GM job
3) I want a coach. Not some no-name Steeler/Titan toss off to mentor! A real coach! Hell, bring back Marv for 2 years! Just get me a coach that can inspire and motivate this team.
4) If Losman shows absolutely no sign of improvement and ends up looking like a bust by the end of this season, go after Brees or Rivers (which ever San Diego decides to get rid of).
5) Get rid of Mike Williams or make him take the pay cut and ride the pine. Biggest bust the Bills drafted in 15 years.
6) Build an OL from the inside out. We need a true Center. We need a true LT. Not some patch work BS!!

[DraftBoy]

Here is a list of my demands:

1) Fire TD after this season
2) Give Modrak the GM job
3) I want a coach. Not some no-name Steeler/Titan toss off to mentor! A real coach! Hell, bring back Marv for 2 years! Just get me a coach that can inspire and motivate this team.
4) If Losman ends up looking like a bust by the end of this season, go after Brees or Rivers (which ever San Diego decides to get rid of).
5) Get rid of Mike Williams or make him take the pay cut and ride the pine. Biggest bust the Bills drafted in 15 years.
6) Build an OL from the inside out. We need a true Center. We need a true LT. Not some patch work BS!!


Agreed on all points and I think it might be a safe assessment to say Rivers will be the odd man out of San Diego.

[sdbillsfan2]

I got to agree with dumping TD ..I started a thread in the 3rd qt.and stated the same thing but it seems to have disappeared .oh well ! the bucck has to stop at TD's desk ..Time to go!

[ArcticWildMan]

This season might be the most dissapointing season I can ever remember watching. I'm not jumping off the band wagon, but I can think of a hell of a lot of other things to do with my time and money (DirecTv etc) on Sundays. I have to take a couple weeks break.

I really feel like flying up to Buffalo and kicking TD right square in the balls.


Here is a list of my demands:

1) Fire TD after this season
2) Give Modrak the GM job
3) I want a coach. Not some no-name Steeler/Titan toss off to mentor! A real coach! Hell, bring back Marv for 2 years! Just get me a coach that can inspire and motivate this team.
4) If Losman ends up looking like a bust by the end of this season, go after Brees or Rivers (which ever San Diego decides to get rid of).
5) Get rid of Mike Williams or make him take the pay cut and ride the pine. Biggest bust the Bills drafted in 15 years.
6) Build an OL from the inside out. We need a true Center. We need a true LT. Not some patch work BS!!


Just fix #5 and #6 and we might have a good team. Our offense is pathetic.

[RedEyE]

Agreed on all points and I think it might be a safe assessment to say Rivers will be the odd man out of San Diego.
That's fine. I'd prefer the guy with the legs. If it costs us Clements and Moulds to get him, then so be it.

[Mr. Cynical]

This season might be the most dissapointing season I can ever remember watching. I'm not jumping off the band wagon, but I can think of a hell of a lot of other things to do with my time and money (DirecTv etc) on Sundays. I have to take a couple weeks break.

I really feel like flying up to Buffalo and kicking TD right square in the balls.


Here is a list of my demands:

1) Fire TD after this season
2) Give Modrak the GM job
3) I want a coach. Not some no-name Steeler/Titan toss off to mentor! A real coach! Hell, bring back Marv for 2 years! Just get me a coach that can inspire and motivate this team.
4) If Losman shows absolutely no sign of improvement and ends up looking like a bust by the end of this season, go after Brees or Rivers (which ever San Diego decides to get rid of).
5) Get rid of Mike Williams or make him take the pay cut and ride the pine. Biggest bust the Bills drafted in 15 years.
6) Build an OL from the inside out. We need a true Center. We need a true LT. Not some patch work BS!!
All good ideas....as long as #1 is the first move, the rest will come.

[DraftBoy]

That's fine. I'd prefer the guy with the legs. If it costs us Clements and Moulds to get him, then so be it.


Fine with me too

[Mr. Cynical]

Just fix #5 and #6 and we might have a good team. Our offense is pathetic.
I used to think that, but now I don't know. Our "vaunted" D seems to be having problems as well. Moreover the play calling and coaching appears weak, and outside of the GM, the coach is the next in line in responsibility of the team's success and failures.

At this point it's time to flush, starting with TD. Then let the chips fall where they may. We need to cut the head of this losing beast and kill it.

[ArcticWildMan]

You guys are nuts. You want to blow millions in wasted cap bonus money by cutting JP and bring in yet another rookie QB?

Insane.

[RedEyE]

Just fix #5 and #6 and we might have a good team. Our offense is pathetic.Terribly pathetic. I never expected us to go from bad to worse, but that is precisely what this offense has done.

I think this team needs to be overseen by fresh eyes. Ditch the Donahoe!!

[DraftBoy]

You guys are nuts. You want to blow millions in wasted cap bonus money by cutting JP and bring in yet another rookie QB?

Insane.

#1. Nobody said to cut Losman that I could see
#2. You got numbers to back up these wasted millions so we know exactly how much we could stand to be losing or are we just being speculative.
#3. Rivers like Losman is not a rookie, I dont see how this is such a hard concept for people to grasp.

[BillsFever21]

Bring in Rivers for what? So after 4 games you can declare him a bust too?

[sdbillsfan2]

Trust me on this one ..unless we get an O-Line that's worth a damn Rivers will play ne better then JP or Drew did .Besides I think Jp has a little more heart.(for what ever that's worth when your losing)!

[X-Era]

This team is NOT good enough to make the playoffs no matter what there is on paper or what OBD put in the Kool Aid. There needs to be some major changes made, including the firing of TD.

5 years, no playoffs = incompetent GM.

Period.
Worst part of it is, our Owner doesnt hav ethe nards to do it, there is NO Gm out there better, and nothing short of an abduction of Charley Weiss in South Bend will fix or problems.

Face it, we are stuck, I hate where we are, but these idiots Clements and Mularkey will actually wfool themselves into think they should start Holcomb because they still have a chance. They may kill like 5 to 8 games of experience for Losman by playinb this losing game with Holcomb at the helm. They will forfeit even more of our future by going this route.

I tell you what right now, this week is THE make or break week for Mularkey. Its his chance to show the team and the fans that he has the intestinal fortitude to stick with his young gun. If he fails, we fail for many more years to come.

[Kerr]

#1. Nobody said to cut Losman that I could see
#2. You got numbers to back up these wasted millions so we know exactly how much we could stand to be losing or are we just being speculative.
#3. Rivers like Losman is not a rookie, I dont see how this is such a hard concept for people to grasp.

Who said Losman and Rivers were rookie qbs? Oh, nevermind. Figures.

[RedEyE]

You guys are nuts. You want to blow millions in wasted cap bonus money by cutting JP and bring in yet another rookie QB?

Insane.I'm actually not strictly opposed to it. I'm still a Losman fan, but if he shows absolutely no signs of improvement by week 16, then the off-season should be about going after a QB that can get it done.



And while I'm at it, what is Sam Wyche doing besides grasping dollars off the payroll?

He was a horrible coach for Bledsoe, and so far he hasn't done anything to help Holcomb or Losman.

[ArcticWildMan]

Who said Losman and Rivers were rookie qbs? Oh, nevermind. Figures.

How many starts does Rivers have?

How many starts did JP have last year?


Here's a hint: ZERO!!!!! I think you can qualify that as being a rookie QB, wouldn't you think Einstein???

[Kerr]

How many starts does Rivers have?

How many starts did JP have last year?


Here's a hint: ZERO!!!!! I think you can qualify that as being a rookie QB, wouldn't you think Einstein???
They have one year under their belt in this league. They're not rookies. Bottom line. Facts are facts. :loser:

[TacklingDummy]

How many starts does Rivers have?

How many starts did JP have last year?


Here's a hint: ZERO!!!!! I think you can qualify that as being a rookie QB, wouldn't you think Einstein???

Ummm...No. 2nd year players are not rookies. If they are rookies then how come no 2nd year player has ever won the ROY Award?

[ArcticWildMan]

LOL!! You guys crack me up. You want to argue over stupid ****. Neither QB started a game last year. Riding the bench does not make you a veteran QB. They are both ROOKIES as far as being starters is concerned.

Go ahead and argue about bench time if you want. The fact still remains that this is JP's first season playing in any capacity.

You'll look for any angle to discredit JP, dummy, so it's not worth even discussing this with you.

[!Papacrunk!]

Forget this game--Saints were riding that emotional high again, now playing at "home," it was going to be tough playing there anyways. It's way too early to come to any conclusions this early---Bills still have time to correct the ship, more playing time JP gets the better. Look at Eli Manning--he played pretty crappy last year, now look at him. Last year if dumba**, I mean Wanny, would've stuck w/ Feeley, we would've came to the a better conclusion last year then earlier this pre-season, that he sucked, or if he had some starting ability. So you have to stick w/ JP, because I'm sure he will prove his 1st rounder abilility some time.

Both of our teams have some question marks, some that can be fixed, some that can't, but screw this game, it's now officially Buffalo/Miami week and we can both see if our coaches can try to right some of these question marks.

On a related, unrelated note, I thought it'd be kind of funny to list the AFCEast QB situation:

Dolphins: Gus Frerotte/Sage Rosenfels
Bills: JP Losman/Kelly Holcombe
Jets: Vinny Testerverde/Jay Fiedler
Pats:Tom Brady/Doug Flutie

except for that despicable Brady, the AFCEast isn't quaking anybody in their boots w/ our QBs, so it shows ya, we have to do the best w/ what we have.

[The_Philster]

Hey guys ive been coming to this site for about 3 years and last year i think i joined after one of the many painful loses. i havent really posted much i usually come to see what you guys say but after today i really feel like giving up. I mean i have tickets to go up to buffalo next week and its a pretty long trip for me which i make every year and i can honestly say this is the first year im not even looking forward to going. Ive been as optimistic as i can for the past years but the fact that the last playoff image i have is that tennessee game im about ready to give up and stop watching football this year. Maybe things will change, hopefully........understandable but I look at going to the games as much more than just going to see a football game...I always find a way to enjoy myself..if we suck, I find other means of enjoyment

[Kerr]

LOL!! You guys crack me up. You want to argue over stupid ****. Neither QB started a game last year. Riding the bench does not make you a veteran QB. They are both ROOKIES as far as being starters is concerned.

Go ahead and argue about bench time if you want. The fact still remains that this is JP's first season playing in any capacity.

It doesn't matter if they started or not. They are not rookies.
And they are not veterans. Are you on another planet? Losman didn't play in any capacity? True story-Losman actually played last season. :rolleyes:

[TacklingDummy]

You'll look for any angle to discredit JP, dummy, so it's not worth even discussing this with you.


I do?? Not my fault he's played like shLt ever since the 1st Qtr. of the Houston game.

Sorry for feeling that the Bills are a good team and have a bad QB pulling them down.

[MDFINFAN]

TD's playoff record since being GM of the Pittsburgh '97 playoff team:

'98 (Pitt): 7-9. NO PLAYOFFS.
'99 (Pitt): 6-10. NO PLAYOFFS.
'01: 3-13. NO PLAYOFFS.
'02: 8-8. NO PLAYOFFS.
'03: 6-10. NO PLAYOFFS.
'04: 9-7. NO PLAYOFFS.
'05: 1-3. Take a guess....

7 STRAIGHT SEASONS. NO PLAYOFFS.

Still think he should be our GM?

Hmmm, good point..

[slakjaw157]

It is normal for the QB to take the heat and blame after a loss. After todays game it is sure warranted. I realize he is still very green, but how much time do you give the kid before you have to conclude he sucks and that he should be benched?

I don't know what the answer is. I only know that I am sick and tired of watching this BS. Same sheet different year!

[Ebenezer]

TD's playoff record since being GM of the Pittsburgh '97 playoff team:

'98 (Pitt): 7-9. NO PLAYOFFS.
'99 (Pitt): 6-10. NO PLAYOFFS.
'01: 3-13. NO PLAYOFFS.
'02: 8-8. NO PLAYOFFS.
'03: 6-10. NO PLAYOFFS.
'04: 9-7. NO PLAYOFFS.
'05: 1-3. Take a guess....

7 STRAIGHT SEASONS. NO PLAYOFFS.

Still think he should be our GM?

President?? hard to argue with bodies in the seat and the team making more money than ever before GM? no...but that brings us to the next post...


I think Modrak is an obvious choice. See ya later TD. :wave:

What will Modrak solve as GM? He probably is in on most of the decisions anyway. And do you think TD won't meddle because he doesn't have the GM title?? So, the only way to rid the problem is to get rid of TD entirely...which leads us back to the question of the Presdency...see post above...vicious circle...a no win.


Is it just me, or does McGahee look like he's running with a diaper full of crap in it on?

I've been saying that all season.


You guys are nuts. You want to blow millions in wasted cap bonus money by cutting JP and bring in yet another rookie QB?

Insane.

Oh wise Alaskan Salary Cap Guru...you are correct...too much money escalates into the 2006 cap to kick him to the curb.


Trust me on this one ..unless we get an O-Line that's worth a damn Rivers will play ne better then JP or Drew did .Besides I think Jp has a little more heart.(for what ever that's worth when your losing)!

The OL has been the problem since 1996...just read the Up My Flagpole column from last week.

[ArcticWildMan]

It doesn't matter if they started or not. They are not rookies.
And they are not veterans. Are you on another planet? Losman didn't play in any capacity? True story-Losman actually played last season. :rolleyes:

LMAO!!! You consider that one series with 3-4 plays during the entire season as grounds to say he "played" last season and gained anything from it? You crack me up bud!! :rofl:

[Philagape]

The Defense has played well enough for the Bills to win every game this year.

Dumbest post of the season.

[Philagape]

Sorry for feeling that the Bills are a good team and have a bad QB pulling them down.

Second-dumbest post of the season.

OL sucks
D is average
Coaching is below average

[Ebenezer]

Second-dumbest post of the season.

OL sucks
D is average
Coaching is below average


Let's not forget:

TE invisable
DE weak
QB less than stellar

[Philagape]

Let's not forget:

TE invisable
DE weak
QB less than stellar

Absolutely. QB is just one of many problems

[Kerr]

LMAO!!! You consider that one series with 3-4 plays during the entire season as grounds to say he "played" last season and gained anything from it? You crack me up bud!! :rofl:

I'm not your bud. You claimed he didn't play in any capacity at all. You were wrong. You claimed he was a rookie. You were wrong. You claimed he was a veteran. You were wrong. Just stfu and quit trying to always twist everything around. It doesn't work.

[Mahdi]

I blame this loss entirely on playcalling and the defense who couldnt stop a third and long if they were in the opposing team's huddle.

[guy]

I dont understand what you people expected out of losman.He is basicly a "rookie" quaterback. Yeah we all wish he would play better no doubt, but he will continue to start unless he gets hurt.Its the only way he is going to learn.I am very disapponinted in the lack of a tight end to help this kid out. And tell me why they have him rolling out to the left?

[Ultra Chimp 1]

I said it before and I'll say it again.

The decision to trade Peerless Price was this franchises turning point.

[guy]

:whatthe: you are kidding, right?

[colin]

mike williams has not been a pro bowler, but he is still the best tackle from that draft (should have traded down and gone for freeny and ed reed, but hindsight is 20 20).

he has been hurt this year, but played well when he was in, and he played well last year.


he is our one young lineman with some potential, he isn't the guy we should cut.

we just need a C, a RG, perhaps a new LT, and on D a young safety or 2 to groom and some beef up front.

we have a good roster right now, we just are playing and coaching poorly, and it starts with the QB.

sub 50% and sub 100 yards is too bad to ignore, it is not acceptable and jp is not developing at all.

he is getting worse

[YardRat]

I said it before and I'll say it again.

The decision to trade Peerless Price was this franchises turning point.
They got better without Peerless...

[ScottLawrence]

I hate to agree, but you're right. It is the cold, hard truth and has been for quite a while now.

Get out the axe.....time to start at the top.


In reality its all of the fans fault for this horrible start to the season.

We were calling for JP, we paid the money for season tickets, This has nothing to do with the team, its about money.

And TD did his job in giving exactly what us fans wanted by naming Losman the starter, and the fans bought the tickets.

Theres only one way to get TD fired, and its through the fans.

Stop buying tickets, and you get TD fired....So all those people who thought this team would be great with Losman, and went out and bought tickets, should really be blaming themselves, rather then TD.

[Mr. Cynical]

President?? hard to argue with bodies in the seat and the team making more money than ever before GM? no...but that brings us to the next post...


So, the only way to rid the problem is to get rid of TD entirely...which leads us back to the question of the Presdency...see post above...vicious circle...a no win.It's not hard to argue 5 years without a playoff game. Who gives a flying **** about his presidency. This team has sucked for 5 years. TD is responsible for it, thus TD must go. Win-win.


Second-dumbest post of the season.

OL sucks
D is average
Coaching is below average
Let's not forget:

TE invisable
DE weak
QB less than stellarAnd who is the one who hired all thost people? Yep, TD. He IS the problem, no matter what anyone tries to say. Everything flows downstream from his position, and what's been flowing for the past 5 years is alot of crap.

[RedEyE]

The biggest thing that pisses me off about TD is the coaches that were available when this team needed a solid leader and motivator. What does he come up with each time? Gregg Williams and Mike Mularkey? Come on. What a bunch of horse ****.

[BAM]

more playing time JP gets the better. Look at Eli Manning--he played pretty crappy last year, now look at him.
Exactly. Very good post.

The whole thing actually.

[Mr. Cynical]

The biggest thing that pisses me off about TD is the coaches that were available when this team needed a solid leader and motivator. What does he come up with each time? Gregg Williams and Mike Mularkey? Come on. What a bunch of horse ****.
He has made colossal mistakes with the two most important positions on a football team - coach and QB.

[YardRat]

Mularkey was getting his share of praise last year when the Bill's were finishing the season strong and just barely missing the play-offs, building momentum to carry into the 2005 season.

What's the difference this year?

Same GM...same coach...same offensive coordinator...same running back...same defense...same defensive coordinator.

Oh...that's right....different QB.

[Mr. Cynical]

Mularkey was getting his share of praise last year when the Bill's were finishing the season strong and just barely missing the play-offs, building momentum to carry into the 2005 season.

What's the difference this year?

Same GM...same coach...same offensive coordinator...same running back...same defense...same defensive coordinator.

Oh...that's right....different QB.
Of our 9 wins last year, only 2 came against winning teams. We were never that good to begin with. Total mirage. Now hopefully fans can see they've been drinking too much of TD's Kool-Aid and put pressure on Ralph to can him.

[YardRat]

The only team we've played this year with a winning record was Tampa...the rest have been 500 or worse.

And we're now losing those games.

[jpdex12]

Agreed on all points and I think it might be a safe assessment to say Rivers will be the odd man out of San Diego.
Boy, you guys are brilliant! Let's put in another unproven QB. Isn't that what you're all are *****ing about right now? Good thing you aren't GM's.

[Mr. Cynical]

The only team we've played this year with a winning record was Tampa...the rest have been 500 or worse.

And we're now losing those games.
Actually that's incorrect...both Tampa and Atlanta have winning records. NO is the only 500 team that's beaten us. So it's really the same situation as last year, only our defense is worse. (and JP doesn't play defense)

Bad player moves, bad coaching, bad GM'ing. It all still points to TD.

[ArcticWildMan]

I'm not your bud. You claimed he didn't play in any capacity at all. You were wrong. You claimed he was a rookie. You were wrong. You claimed he was a veteran. You were wrong. Just stfu and quit trying to always twist everything around. It doesn't work.


LMAO!!! If you think 4 plays in an entire season counts as quality playing time you are beyond clueless. YOU are the brain surgeon trying to say somebody who carried a clipboard all season is a "veteran" QB, not me. Being on a roster and watching from the sideline hardly makes a QB a "veteran" in my book (and I bet in most other people's as well). Go read ESPN, Fox Sports, Sporting News, etc, and you will see that Losman has been referred to as a rookie because this is for all intents and purposes his rookie season. A "veteran" QB is somebody who has been a starter and/or has played in the NFL for a length of time. Something neither of the QB's that were discussed can lay claim to.


You know damn well the point I'm trying to make but all you want to do is argue with me about everything and anything I say. Grow up.

[unpaid_bills]

Is it just me, or does McGahee look like he's running with a diaper full of crap in it on?
Yeah sure does. Probably cause his OL blocks like S**T, or could be the crappy play calling

[Kerr]

LMAO!!! If you think 4 plays in an entire season counts as quality playing time you are beyond clueless. YOU are the brain surgeon trying to say somebody who carried a clipboard all season is a "veteran" QB, not me. Being on a roster and watching from the sideline hardly makes a QB a "veteran" in my book (and I bet in most other people's as well). Go read ESPN, Fox Sports, Sporting News, etc, and you will see that Losman has been referred to as a rookie because this is for all intents and purposes his rookie season. A "veteran" QB is somebody who has been a starter and/or has played in the NFL for a length of time. Something neither of the QB's that were discussed can lay claim to.


You know damn well the point I'm trying to make but all you want to do is argue with me about everything and anything I say. Grow up.
Go back and look at the stats. He played in 4 games, brainy smurf. Have you been smoking the pipe? Show me when I said Losman was a veteran qb???? Otherwise, you're just putting words into my mouth and pulling **** out of your ass, and also have a reading comprehension problem. You said Losman was a rookie. I said no, he's not because this is his 2nd year. Then you come up with all this garbage that i'm implying he's a veteran qb. I said no, he's not a veteran. I happen to know what a vetaran is. Show me where I said he was a veteran?? Go ahead. I'm betting you won't. Just like you can't answer a simple question, you're going to hide in the bush.

[ArcticWildMan]

Losman suited up for 4 games, he didn't start in 4 games. Big difference.
How many games did he throw a pass in? Hell, how many passes did he throw all of 2004? How about a whopping 5 passes for all of 2004.



Like I said, you just want to argue.

[Philagape]

Mularkey was getting his share of praise last year when the Bill's were finishing the season strong and just barely missing the play-offs, building momentum to carry into the 2005 season.

What's the difference this year?

Same GM...same coach...same offensive coordinator...same running back...same defense...same defensive coordinator.

Oh...that's right....different QB.

Worse OL

Worse D

Tougher schedule

[Kerr]

Losman suited up for 4 games, he didn't play in 4 games. Big difference.
How many games did he throw a pass in? Hell, how many passes did he throw all of 2004? How about a whopping 5 passes for all of 2004.



Like I said, you just want to argue.You know, if I said what I wanted to say what I think you are, then it would a be a definiteTos violation I suppose. If the sun wasn't any brighter. :rolleyes:

Does the **** just come nonstop that you need diapers to maintain it?
Get your facts straight.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493000/gamelogs/2004

He suited up and played in 4 games. I don't care if he didn't throw more than 5 or 6 passes or just handed off the football. He still played in 4 games. Case closed. Your claim was that he had no prior playing capacity whatsoever before this season, but that is incorrect. Click on the link and see how wrong you are, brainy.


Thanks for proving me right again. I knew you wouldn't show me any evidence I said Losman was a "veteran" because there is none. :up:

Like I said, you're full of it.

[ArcticWildMan]

Nice of you to change the wording of my post. :rolleyes:

Like I said, you want to argue for the sake of an arguement. You refuse to open your eyes to the point I'm trying to make because you are still upset over another thread in the twilight zone. Grow up.

If you want to call me names tough guy, go for it. I've been called worse than you can think of I'm sure.

[Kerr]

Nice of you to change the wording of my post.

:boring:

[ArcticWildMan]

:boring:


I rest my case.

Grow up.

[Kerr]

I rest my case.

Grow up.Rest it all you want. If the best you can come up with is "nice of you to change the wording of my post", then you should have quit while you were ahead. So just sit back, relax and :stfu:

[ArcticWildMan]

Rest it all you want. If the best you can come up with is "nice of you to change the wording of my post", then you should have quit while you were ahead. So just sit back, relax and :stfu:

I really suggest you go back and read what I wrote. Seriously.


BTW..can you neg me some more tough guy? It really shows me how tough you are!! :snicker:

[Kerr]

I really suggest you go back and read what I wrote. Seriously.


BTW..can you neg me some more tough guy? It really shows me how tough you are!! :snicker:Were you in editing mode? Must've been because I got a small chunk.

"Like I said, you want to argue for the sake of an arguement. You refuse to open your eyes to the point I'm trying to make because you are still upset over another thread in the twilight zone. Grow up.

If you want to call me names tough guy, go for it. I've been called worse than you can think of I'm sure."

Refuse to open my eyes? oh, there's a new one. This has nothing to do with the twilight zone.

You made a claim, and now you want to back down from it. Isn't that a cop out?

I'm not going to call you a name that would violate the tos. I know you'd want me to do that so I could get banned. Good luck, it's not happening. Use your head. Not that you have much pratice doing that.

Hmm, well honey, bam and others have negged me. Does this mean they're cowards? I'll go tell them this is what you think. At least I left my name when I negged you, not like some others who hide their identity.

[ArcticWildMan]

Hey Kerr...the sky is blue....

[Kerr]

Hey Kerr...the sky is blue....
Not on your planet.

[sba]

We're in some serious trouble:

1) Losman - has all the tools, but he's so overcoached it's killing him. He's just way too nervous out there, tries to hard to not make mistakes and it's killing his progress. I don't think Holcomb is going to win games either, but JP should probably sit for a game or so just to get his head straight.

2) TD - Won't be going anywhere as long as people still buy tickets. Has made some great moves (McGahee, Spikes, Adams, Milloy, Posey, Shelton) but his drafts are awful for the most part (Denney, Reed, Wire). Won't do anything to fix the O-Line.

3) Mularkey - I still think he's an ok coach, but I have this feeling that TD is forcing him to let Losman throw a lot. He can't be dumb enough to give Willis under 20 carries in a game.

4) Defense - It's not the 85 Bears, but it's still holding teams under 20 points, which is enough to win most games. What happened to the turnovers though?? And I don't think they've made a clutch stop on third down in like 4 years.

5) Depth - especially on O-Line, it seems we have none. Cutting Riss Tucker might have been the dumbest TD move to date.

[ArcticWildMan]

Not on your planet.


:roflmao:

[ArcticWildMan]

We're in some serious trouble:

1) Losman - has all the tools, but he's so overcoached it's killing him. He's just way too nervous out there, tries to hard to not make mistakes and it's killing his progress. I don't think Holcomb is going to win games either, but JP should probably sit for a game or so just to get his head straight.

2) TD - Won't be going anywhere as long as people still buy tickets. Has made some great moves (McGahee, Spikes, Adams, Milloy, Posey, Shelton) but his drafts are awful for the most part (Denney, Reed, Wire). Won't do anything to fix the O-Line.

3) Mularkey - I still think he's an ok coach, but I have this feeling that TD is forcing him to let Losman throw a lot. He can't be dumb enough to give Willis under 20 carries in a game.

4) Defense - It's not the 85 Bears, but it's still holding teams under 20 points, which is enough to win most games. What happened to the turnovers though?? And I don't think they've made a clutch stop on third down in like 4 years.

5) Depth - especially on O-Line, it seems we have none. Cutting Riss Tucker might have been the dumbest TD move to date.


Spot on. Especially #1 & 5.

[Kerr]

:roflmao::coocoo:

[ArcticWildMan]

:coocoo:

:nana:

[Kerr]

:nana:
I'm tired. Going to bed. It's been fun screwing with your head. :snicker:

:up:

[ArcticWildMan]

I'm tired too. Too bad I still have 2 more hours at work. :(

[Mudflap1]

Here's my $.02 in no particular order...

1. I said no matter what happens to give Losman at least one more game. Frankly, I think I've seen enough for now. Have Holcomb take the snaps with the first team this week, put Losman at 2nd string, and see how good the guy does with this week's game. If he sucks, he sucks, and you go back to Losman and just take the lumps. If he plays well and we win, great! Either that, or give both QB's equal time with the 1st team this week and give Losman a real quick hook with this next game. I'm not ready to completely give up on him, but he's showing me nothing so far, has totally digressed, and appears to be completely not ready yet to handle starting quarterback duty.

2. The offensive line is terrible with pass-blocking. We ran well, why did we get away from it? McGahee had a 5.3 yard average!

3. The offensive coaches were terrible this game. Good game plan for the first drive, then they went completely away from it! They started off running, with short, quick passes. They then went to Losman dropping back like he's Y.A. Tittle or something, and waiting to run on 2nd and 3rd down. HEY GENIUSES! HE CAN'T CONVERT THIRD AND LONG YET!

4. No pass rush today at all. Third down defense was a disgrace again. No pressure, nobody to pick up the QB scrambling.

5. Crowell overall actually did ok I thought.

6. Lindell missed another big field goal.

7. Great return by McGee at the end of the half, but WTF??? Typical snake-bitten luck for the Buffalo Bills.

8. Tom Donahoe needs to go this season, even if they make the playoffs. It would be the righteous thing to do. The guy is smug, takes no responsibility, and has totally led us astray for 5+ years through smoke and mirrors. Forget Modrak too, he's just a TD puppet. Fresh start.

9. Maybe this team will get better. For the life of me I don't know how. They looked miserable today and were outplayed and outcoached in almost every facet of the game. This was a must game for both teams, and the Bills showed no heart. Losman continues to get worse. He shows NOTHING to me. Frankly, if his play doesn't improve this season, I would go for Rivers or Leinart in a heartbeat if it was any way conceivable. Someone asked what the difference between starting Rivers (who has little experience) and Losman is. The difference is one might be a good quarterback and one might not be. We don't know for sure yet, but another round has been tallied today, and it's another one up for "bust".

It's so demorializing, I don't even know what the team should even really try to do right now. It's almost inconceivable after watching this gut-wrenching performance today that they could actually turn it around and compete with teams. What a disgrace from Tom Donahoe on down. Everyone should be embarrased. The players, the coaches, the general manager, the owner, the cheerleaders, the ballboys, and especially the fans.

Jon

[Mr. Cynical]

8. Tom Donahoe needs to go this season, even if they make the playoffs. It would be the righteous thing to do. The guy is smug, takes no responsibility, and has totally led us astray for 5+ years through smoke and mirrors. Forget Modrak too, he's just a TD puppet. Fresh start.
Bingo.

[Mr. Cynical]

This team is NOT good enough to make the playoffs no matter what there is on paper or what OBD put in the Kool Aid. There needs to be some major changes made, including the firing of TD.

5 years, no playoffs = incompetent GM.

Period.
And with the starting of Holcomb this week, all doubt is removed. TD should be shown the door with a swift kick in the ass.

[frank74]

agreed, but that can only happen if the bills lose out the entire season. if we win a few and look decent here and there, rw will keep him b/c the guy is a great marketer, sells tix and is a helluva politician. or, the fans have to take a stand and stop buying tix supporting this b.s.

[footballhottie]

I would rather not be honest with myself..me and my new boyfriend bob are going to watch the bills win the superbowl this year.

[Mr. Cynical]

agreed, but that can only happen if the bills lose out the entire season. if we win a few and look decent here and there, rw will keep him b/c the guy is a great marketer, sells tix and is a helluva politician. or, the fans have to take a stand and stop buying tix supporting this b.s.
Good point...

Thing is, if JP is a bust and we go say 8-8 with Holcomb, that still should put TD out the door. TD traded away alot of picks to get JP, and after the Drew debaucle he doesn't have any "mulligans" left.

IMO, the fate of TD = the fate of JP.

[Mudflap1]

As I mentioned yesterday, the logical temporary solution to replacing Tom Donahoe is to put Otto the autopilot in at GM. Lots of hot air and he doesn't answer any questions. Sound familiar?

It would be a sound economic move.

Jon

[frank74]

Good point...

Thing is, if JP is a bust and we go say 8-8 with Holcomb, that still should put TD out the door. TD traded away alot of picks to get JP, and after the Drew debaucle he doesn't have any "mulligans" left.

IMO, the fate of TD = the fate of JP.
true, and what will happen with the future of this team becomes a reality next year. we are going to lose quite a few players which will definitely be detrimental to our future. so, td may be out the door either way.

[Mr. Cynical]

Hopefully people will start being honest with themselves now. This team is in need of major changes, starting with TD.

[MikeInRoch]

Time to put JP in.

[Mr. Cynical]

Time to put JP in.

May as well. He should have been in for every game this year, but I suppose it takes a few games like this for people to realize KH isn't going to make a bit of difference on this team as it stands now. May as well get JP his bumps and see if he can play. Playing KH is a COMPLETE waste of time.

[BillsFever21]

This is what some of us have been saying all along. Just like last year, we beat some bad teams(Miami and Jets and home nonetheless) and some think we are actually a good team.

Losman needs to be in here. This game proves that Holcomb won't take us anywhere. This is the easiest team left on our schedule and look what's happening.

We can't win on the road unless they are one of the worst teams in the league and we can't beat a good team whether it's at home or away.

Put Losman back in and let him gain experience. Get rid of TD and MM and lets start over.

[Novacane]

Hopefully people will start being honest with themselves now. This team is in need of major changes, starting with TD.


Most won't be honest with themselves. To many homers on this board. The mantra this week will be that we are only 1/2 game out of first and if we beat NE ( :roflmao: ) next week we will be in first :up:

[Mr. Cynical]

Most won't be honest with themselves. To many homers on this board. The mantra this week will be that we are only 1/2 game out of first and if we beat NE ( :roflmao: ) next week we will be in first :up:

Very true. Of course, you and I will be pegged as non-Bills fans because we are "giving up" on the season. I say we are true Bills fans in that we want to see this team BECOME COMPETITIVE, rather than be a house of cards that folds every year against good teams.

[MikeInRoch]

It's not the folding against good teams that I mind - it's the folding against CRAP teams - such as the Saints, Raiders, and the Steelers backups.

[Mr. Cynical]

It's not the folding against good teams that I mind - it's the folding against CRAP teams - such as the Saints, Raiders, and the Steelers backups.

Agreed.


Great teams beat good teams and crush bad ones. (with an occasional upset)
Good teams split with good teams and beat bad ones. (with an occasional upset)
Bad teams lose to good teams and split with bad ones.The Bills are in category 3.

[Mr. Cynical]

This loss solidified everything in this thread.

[Novacane]

This loss solidified everything in this thread.



:posrep:

[jmb1099]

I said a week or so ago, once Holcomb loses to put JP back in, even against NE, put him in. The loss wasn't all Holcomb's fault, but that isn't really the point now is it? TD has to go and so does MM. Our team has no heart right now. I hate losing any game, but I can accept a hard fought loss but that isn't what we had today, what we saw today was heartless, uninspired football on both sides of the field and lame play calling from the sidelines. I am normally Mr. positive, but this was just awful.

[Mr. Cynical]

This team is NOT good enough to make the playoffs no matter what there is on paper or what OBD put in the Kool Aid. There needs to be some major changes made, including the firing of TD.

5 years, no playoffs = incompetent GM.

Period.

I said it before and I'll say it again.

Fire TD and start over.

[BillsFever21]

I wonder how many homers will say "we'll win the rest of our games and win the division"

[BillsFever21]

This is a pathetic team that can't beat anybody on the road and that comes down to coaching.

We need to clean house next year. Get rid of the high priced washed up scrubs left on defense and get rid of Mularkey.

Get rid of Mularkey. There isn't any sense of wasting anymore time with him. We will have a good trio in Losman, McGahee and Evans. Don't let Mularkey waste anymore time with them.

[feelthepain]

I am normally Mr. positive

Is that what you call it?? If the Bills win this game you are talking playoffs, what are the Bills now, besides your homer opinion, the Bills are better then the Fins?? And whats your opinion on JP?? Is his performance today all everyone else?? It's not like JP doesn't know the system or the WR's, so whats the excuse this week??

[Mr. Cynical]

This is a pathetic team that can't beat anybody on the road and that comes down to coaching.

We need to clean house next year. Get rid of the high priced washed up scrubs left on defense and get rid of Mularkey.

Get rid of Mularkey. There isn't any sense of wasting anymore time with him. We will have a good trio in Losman, McGahee and Evans. Don't let Mularkey waste anymore time with them.

TD has to go. You don't get THREE chances to hire a competent HC. And by getting rid of TD, MM will go with him. The new GM will definitely bring in a new coaching staff.

It all starts at the top. :up:

[MikeInRoch]

what are the Bills now, besides your homer opinion, the Bills are better then the Fins??

Let's see - first there's that Buffalo has a better record. Second, the Bills beat Miami.

Any evidence that Miami is better than Buffalo? No.

Although, saying that Buffalo is better than Miami is like saying they took the gold at the Special Olympics.

[feelthepain]

Although, saying that Buffalo is better than Miami is like saying they took the gold at the Special Olympics.


Exactly!