When exactly do we get on track for the SB?

[X-Era]

I thought that winning a few games wasnt good enough, I thought we were committed to winning a SB, does anybody really think Holcomb can do that? Using what evidence from his experience again? Obviously I dont believe he can do it because he hasnt shown it for any team yet. But I am willing to respect your opinion if you think he can.


IMO, we went to 4 straight in large part because we had a playoff and SB caliper QB in Kelly. Furthermore, he had an attitude where he was more than willing to jack this squad up and force wins.

Since the SB years, I have not seen any signs of having the mental toughness to go back to the SB again. No one else at any other position has stepped up and filled those shoes. Over and over we see lack of mental toughness, even today. I see that type of attitude in Losman. He may never have the talent or decision making to be any good and that leadership may just go to waste, but IMO we just dont have enough evidence to make that determintaion yet.

This team is not now and has not been the Pats type of a team. We dont hold a candle to them as far as mental toughness. If the rest of the team is mentaly tough enough, you very well can go to the playoffs and/or SB with a non-playoff or SB caliper QB. Ltes face it, we dont have that situation, right now, not since our SB years, and maybe never. That means that recipe just wont work for the Bills. It may work for Car (with Delhomme), STL (with Warner) or some of the other teams. But look what happened when Warner went to a team that didnt have the mental toughness the Cards, they basically look like we do.

The Bills and many fans apparently feel they have seen enough in 4 games. I respectfully disagree. But, just to indulge that thought:

If it isnt Holcomb, and it isnt Losman, who is it? and how do we get that person?

FA? please! you want to add a true leader with playoff and/or SB caliper proven talent through FA? with a GM who holds his money tighter that Scrooge? No way in hell we pay for that. A trade? sure, sounds good, who gives up their proven playoff/SB leader QB again? NO ONE!

Your stuck with one choice, build your own. Well, we were trying to do that and find out if it was Losman but 4 games in abandonded that plan. We werent willing to invest the games necessary in him to find out.

So, again, If it isnt Holcomb (and we havent seen anything in his career yet to say it is), and it isnt Losman, then who is it? how do we get that person? When do we finally start down that path?

If Holcomb comes in and wins us a few more games so that we end up say 5 and 11 or better, we will NOT have the #1 pick and therefore will NOT get Linehart. To me there isnt ANYONE else that looks like a real possibility to be a SB type QB, maybe Marcus Vick comes out. He carries very heavy off the field baggage, does anyone belive that is the type of character that fills Kellys shoes? Trade up for Linehart, OK, that will take a kings ransom, aare we all willing to do that? is our Scrooge GM TD?

It doesnt look pretty and starting Holcomb just catapulted us through an ugly forest where we are hitting every branch.

Id love to see some real discussion on this, we all care. I mean real discussion with real approcahes to this probelm, not well lets just see what happens or well Im sure we will figure something out. Talk real.

Your thoughts?

[jonah7777]

my thought is the bills will not see a superbowl let alone the playoffs for a longgggggg time.

the bills? this team is less of a contender daily.

[LtBillsFan66]

The O is in an utter and complete funk. And JP could not possibly play any worse. So maybe they want to see if Holcomb can jump start it a bit. Hopefully complete some passes and make other teams respect the O one iota, which can help get the running game off the ground.

[X-Era]

my thought is the bills will not see a superbowl let alone the playoffs for a longgggggg time.

the bills? this team is less of a contender daily.
I agree, and nothing short of a second coming of Kelly will head us inthe right direction. Holcomb? that isnt it. Losman? his attitude seemed to fit, but we just gave up on that plan without enough evidence to see if he could do it or not.

So unfortunately I agree.

[Novacane]

When TD is finally fired we may start heading in that direction.

[X-Era]

The O is in an utter and complete funk. And JP could not possibly play any worse. So maybe they want to see if Holcomb can jump start it a bit. Hopefully complete some passes and make other teams respect the O one iota, which can help get the running game off the ground.
Huh? did you even answer my question?

I hope your trying to say that Holcomb comes in for a game or two only to get the rest of the team going so that they will stay going and we can re-insert Losman. OK, that sounds like it could work. But then why does the O team members that just showed that "spark" when playing Holcomb say to themselves, lets pull him and put in Losman again? Why do they not want to simply keep playing Holcomb? Why do they not say, "ohh well here we go again" if the Bills then start Losman and then start playing crappy as an O again?

It sounds more likely to be a few more wins, no playoffs, and no real asnwer for our SB QB just like I said.

So then were stuck starting Holcomb which bring us back to the question at hand, Holcomb leads us to a SB win? I dont see that.

So who is the SB QB for us?

[jamze132]

I have said it before, the Bills brass owes it to the veterans who have stuck with this team through the Bledsoe years, to at least give it a shot. I don't know of too many fans who think Holcombe will succeed Sunday, so you my see JP back in there for the rest of the season, which by the way, is the smart play. But if Holcombe does perform well and we have a decisive victory over the Phish, then I say stick with what works. And later in the season, if he starts to resemble the Holcombe of old, put JP back in there.

I don't really see playing Holcombe as a bad idea. It's worth a shot.

And I don't think the Bills should, would, or could draft Linehart.

[X-Era]

When TD is finally fired we may start heading in that direction.
OK, so who is out there at GM that has the balls to draft and play a young QB for the whole season or more that it takes to find out if we got ourselves the guy we need?

Frankly Im not sure who the possible GM's are at all out there.

[Luisito23]

When TD is finally fired we may start heading in that direction.



:bf1: :bf1: :bf1: :bf1: :bf1: .........




GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!

[Novacane]

I don't know of too many fans who think Holcombe will succeed Sunday.



Read through the threads from the last 2 days. There are a lot of them

[X-Era]

I have said it before, the Bills brass owes it to the veterans who have stuck with this team through the Bledsoe years, to at least give it a shot. I don't know of too many fans who think Holcombe will succeed Sunday, so you my see JP back in there for the rest of the season, which by the way, is the smart play. But if Holcombe does perform well and we have a decisive victory over the Phish, then I say stick with what works. And later in the season, if he starts to resemble the Holcombe of old, put JP back in there.

I don't really see playing Holcombe as a bad idea. It's worth a shot.

And I don't think the Bills should, would, or could draft Linehart.
OK, theres 3 parts to your scenario.

1) Holcomb plays crappy on Sun and Losman starts the rest of the year. This may be the best thing for the Bills actually, we are only 1 week behind in finding out whether Losman is our guy or not and Holcomb would have proven he isnt worth anything more than he has already proven for every other team.

2) Holcomb does well and they beat Miami. BTW, this IMO is the most likely scenario in true Bills murphys law fashion. OK, they then stick with him, I honsetly think its almost a given that he isnt the answer for our SB QB, and then we have only played a few games better this season and STILL dont have our SB QB, ohh by the way, we learned NOTHING more about who Losman is in the mean time. To me this juts puts us further behind.

3) Holcomb plays good for a few games, starts to look like Holcomb of old, and then we re-start Losman. OK, We learn it aint Holcomb, but in the mean time havent learned anymore about Losman. So, we end up getting another 4 or 5 games of evidence and experience for Losman by seasons end. Its very likely that he STILL wont be experineced enough to win us games by the start of the season next year and may need say a 1/4 of the year to get there. Now, we have possibly also put next year in jeopardy as well. Thats the best plan?

If the Bills and you dont believe that Holcomb os a SB QB is cant see the point in starting him.

[Historian]

Well, lets see...

We won the East in '66....then made the playoffs in '74....then '80 & '81....SB in 91....so that means....

We should be ready for our next playoff losses in 2007....and 2013.

And we may lose the Super Bowl or two again in 2022, when Ralph is 104.

Encouraging, isn't it?

[LtBillsFan66]

Maybe Holcomb can be a Dilfer like QB. And just do enough.

Face it JP-Era, you're in man-love with JP and won't face reality. JP has been awful. I think leaving him in can do more to damage his ego than letting him sit some.

[Novacane]

Maybe Holcomb can be a Dilfer like QB. And just do enough.
.


One problem with that. Our D is nowhere near the D that Dilfer had. We need Holcomb to do more than Dilfer and I don't see that either.

[Patti120]

Simply put, I don't think Holcomb is the long term answer by any stretch of the imagination. I think the coaches are hoping he is more of a "band aid" if u will, who can provide some sort of spark. We can run through all of this stuff for the 1000th time if we want to, Maybe he'll start the rest of the season maybe he won't. Maybe JP will start again maybe he won't, maybe JP will become a great QB, maybe he won't, but we all just have to sit tight and wait and see what happens. Hopefully the team, coaches, and management can pull their ***** together and right this ship but I'm not holding my breath. Does TD need to go, It's starting to look that way, Why he hasn't addressed the o-line makes zero sense to me. Teams can be likened to constructing a building, u need a solid foundation.. on the field, you'd start with the o-line, off the field the management and coaching and I don't know wtf is going on with the team ignoring a glaring defect...
This all makes me wonder what kind of new contract Ralph gave TD in the offseason as well
Anyway, enough said, hope we win this weekend, I hope Holcomb provides a spark, I hope that JP develops into a great QB someday, I hope the o-line both pass protects and is sold in their run blocking....

[colin]

it is time to take the mouths of the quarter backs penis.

who was the last QB who was a first round pick to win a super bowl?

trent dilfer, after he was labeled a bust 10 times over and was dumped from the team that picked him.

who was the last QB who was a first round pick to win a super bowl for the team that picked him?

Elway, and this is only after his team got Davis to run for 2K+

the bottom line is the NFL is NOT like it used to be, while very important, QBs are not the end all and be all. first round picks at QB are like any other player, only with a bigger risk/reward profile. you play them and develope them, some come along quickly some come along slowly.

moulds took until his 3rd season to breakout, JP might take that long as well, or he might just never get there.

there is no good reason to dedicate our selves to losing now in the hopes that JP might develope (and odds are he won't, most 1st round QBs end up as busts) when we have a chance to win with other guys on our squad.

guys can sit and learn (like pennington) and guys can play and never work out (leaf, smith, couch, etc.), so why do we HAVE to start JP when he is playing terribly?

[LtBillsFan66]

What about the development of Willis and Evans? Should they suffer from abysmal play form JP?

[X-Era]

Maybe Holcomb can be a Dilfer like QB. And just do enough.

Face it JP-Era, you're in man-love with JP and won't face reality. JP has been awful. I think leaving him in can do more to damage his ego than letting him sit some.
Dont assume anything about me and who I like and/or love. Really it should just be assu, because you will only make an ass out of u.

I have been perfectly clear here. I dont know if JP is the answer, I just want to find out. The ONLY parts about JP that I like at this point are the Kelly like attitude and the rocket arm. Those 2 things DONT make him a SB QB. I want to see if he can develop the other stuff like accuracy, decision making, and poise that will.

I honestly, believe that nothing short of SB caliper talent with a Kelly type attitude at QB will win us a SB. That AINT Dilfer and it sure as hell isnt Holcomb.

[X-Era]

it is time to take the mouths of the quarter backs penis.

who was the last QB who was a first round pick to win a super bowl?

trent dilfer, after he was labeled a bust 10 times over and was dumped from the team that picked him.

who was the last QB who was a first round pick to win a super bowl for the team that picked him?

Elway, and this is only after his team got Davis to run for 2K+

the bottom line is the NFL is NOT like it used to be, while very important, QBs are not the end all and be all. first round picks at QB are like any other player, only with a bigger risk/reward profile. you play them and develope them, some come along quickly some come along slowly.

moulds took until his 3rd season to breakout, JP might take that long as well, or he might just never get there.

there is no good reason to dedicate our selves to losing now in the hopes that JP might develope (and odds are he won't, most 1st round QBs end up as busts) when we have a chance to win with other guys on our squad.

guys can sit and learn (like pennington) and guys can play and never work out (leaf, smith, couch, etc.), so why do we HAVE to start JP when he is playing terribly?
hmmm, clearly you werent paying attention last year when 6 of the 8 teams in the 2nd round of the playoffs had 1st round QB's, 5 with the teams that drafted them. The SB was 1 for 1, 1 team that was a 1st rounder with the team that drafted them and the other a 6th rounder with the team that drafted him.

So, your saying that because NE with a 6th rounder in Brady won, we should be the same. So 1 team with 1 sutuation is worth more than the other 6 becaus ethey won? OK, fine, Ihonestly dont believe as I said that the REST of the team has the mental toughness like NE to be a SB team WITHOUT a Kelly type.

I already said this, we AINT the Pats, Mularkey AINT as good of a coach as Belich, the rest of the team DOESNT have the mental toughness of the Pats, they havent since the SB, and IMO never will. Thats why I believe we need the SB QB WITH Kellys attitude to win the SB.

You just think we can plug in any no name Dilfer type and go. Well, we are about to find out. Here comes Holcomb, and in your opinion a SB win.

Lets hope your right.

[Philagape]

Playoiffs? No problem. Just get a decent O-line and run defense.

[colin]

hmmm, clearly you werent paying attention last year when 6 of the 8 teams in the 2nd round of the playoffs had 1st round QB's, 5 with the teams that drafted them. The SB was 1 for 1, 1 team that was a 1st rounder with the team that drafted them and the other a 6th rounder with the team that drafted him.

So, your saying that because NE with a 6th rounder in Brady won, we should be the same. So 1 team with 1 sutuation is worth more than the other 6 becaus ethey won? OK, fine, Ihonestly dont believe as I said that the REST of the team has the mental toughness like NE to be a SB team WITHOUT a Kelly type.

I already said this, we AINT the Pats, Mularkey AINT as good of a coach as Belich, the rest of the team DOESNT have the mental toughness of the Pats, they havent since the SB, and IMO never will. Thats why I believe we need the SB QB WITH Kellys attitude to win the SB.

You just think we can plug in any no name Dilfer type and go. Well, we are about to find out. Here comes Holcomb, and in your opinion a SB win.

Lets hope your right.

no

i didn't say that we will win a SB with Holcomb, but that there is nothing showing us that JP NEEDS to be developed now for us to be better later (or even that he is being developed now).

the fact is even Elway wasn't drafted by the broncos, and before him favre and young weren't drafted by the teams they played for, but aikman who was the last first round pick QB who won a super bowl for the team that drafted him.

combine that with the number of massive first round QB busts, and you should see that developing a young QB at the expense of the team now is neither sufficient nor necessary for a super bowl team.

JP is sucking so horribly he has to sit, it's not like he has shown anything or gotten better over the course of the year.

[HULKFish]

Should've stuck with Bledsoe, you look like us last year...

[Mr. Cynical]

When TD is finally fired we may start heading in that direction.
Yep.

[finsrclowns]

I thought that winning a few games wasnt good enough, I thought we were committed to winning a SB, does anybody really think Holcomb can do that? Using what evidence from his experience again? Obviously I dont believe he can do it because he hasnt shown it for any team yet. But I am willing to respect your opinion if you think he can.
Talking about Super Bowls even in the abstract is plain ridiculous when your team just got whacked by the Aints. But is it too much to ask that we beat the fish at home? We will see. But I believe Holcomb gives us the best chance to win Sunday for several reasons, most basic of which is the vets on the team want him in there.



IMO, we went to 4 straight in large part because we had a playoff and SB caliper QB in Kelly. Furthermore, he had an attitude where he was more than willing to jack this squad up and force wins.
What would Jim Kelly's legacy be if he had been the QB of the Browns in the past 5-6 years? He wouldn't have jacked up much there. Maybe jacked off. A Super Bowl is a lot more than one guy.


Since the SB years, I have not seen any signs of having the mental toughness to go back to the SB again. No one else at any other position has stepped up and filled those shoes. Over and over we see lack of mental toughness, even today. I see that type of attitude in Losman. He may never have the talent or decision making to be any good and that leadership may just go to waste, but IMO we just dont have enough evidence to make that determintaion yet.
You're right we don't know enough to say.


This team is not now and has not been the Pats type of a team. We dont hold a candle to them as far as mental toughness. If the rest of the team is mentaly tough enough, you very well can go to the playoffs and/or SB with a non-playoff or SB caliper QB. Ltes face it, we dont have that situation, right now, not since our SB years, and maybe never. That means that recipe just wont work for the Bills. It may work for Car (with Delhomme), STL (with Warner) or some of the other teams. But look what happened when Warner went to a team that didnt have the mental toughness the Cards, they basically look like we do.
Not many have been as tough as the Pats. Warner isn't the same player he once was. Delhomme and Holcomb COULD be an interesting comparison down the line. I don't buy the argument that if you're not good enough for the SB you just tank the season in order to give one guy snaps.


The Bills and many fans apparently feel they have seen enough in 4 games. I respectfully disagree. But, just to indulge that thought:

If it isnt Holcomb, and it isnt Losman, who is it? and how do we get that person?

FA? please! you want to add a true leader with playoff and/or SB caliper proven talent through FA? with a GM who holds his money tighter that Scrooge? No way in hell we pay for that. A trade? sure, sounds good, who gives up their proven playoff/SB leader QB again? NO ONE!

Your stuck with one choice, build your own. Well, we were trying to do that and find out if it was Losman but 4 games in abandonded that plan. We werent willing to invest the games necessary in him to find out.

So, again, If it isnt Holcomb (and we havent seen anything in his career yet to say it is), and it isnt Losman, then who is it? how do we get that person? When do we finally start down that path?

If Holcomb comes in and wins us a few more games so that we end up say 5 and 11 or better, we will NOT have the #1 pick and therefore will NOT get Linehart. To me there isnt ANYONE else that looks like a real possibility to be a SB type QB, maybe Marcus Vick comes out. He carries very heavy off the field baggage, does anyone belive that is the type of character that fills Kellys shoes? Trade up for Linehart, OK, that will take a kings ransom, aare we all willing to do that? is our Scrooge GM TD?

It doesnt look pretty and starting Holcomb just catapulted us through an ugly forest where we are hitting every branch.

Id love to see some real discussion on this, we all care. I mean real discussion with real approcahes to this probelm, not well lets just see what happens or well Im sure we will figure something out. Talk real.

Your thoughts?

This talk is all premature. Either we start winning games and very quickly with KH or Losman will be back in again and fairly soon. Quit making this into a bigger deal than it is. Mularkey was hired to win games. If Losman stayed in now there's no doubt in my mind a big share of the team would quit. That isn't good for Losman, or Mularkey or the Bills as a franchise. Relax and root for KH to help get us a W on Sunday.

[balls deep]

Well, according to my calendar hell is scheduled to freeze over on.........

[jonah7777]

you mean when the San Antonio bills win a superbowl?

actually after the team is gone from buffalo first thing to go is the name and the buffalo.

buffalo bills gone from NY in 2 years. Ralph won't live much longer ......