Am I missing something here??

[mchurchfie]

Current Jacksonville Jaguars Assistant Head Coach/Defensive Coordinator John Pease is a possible candidate for the team's defensive line coach - Jags record 6-10

Paul Alexander of the Cincinnati Bengals. Alexander is currently the Bengals offensive line coach and has been mentioned for the same position with Buffalo. Cincy's record 2-14

Kevin Ramsey, who was not retained by the Arizona Cardinals defensive backs coach, is also a candidate to join the Bills staff."
Cards record 5-11

Dick Labeau, possible defensive cordinator - Cincy's record 2-14
He was also the Head Coach of this NFL joke too:rolleyes:

It's not exactly like these guys are going to be bringing a winning tradition to this team or anything??:scratch:

[WG]

Nicely stated church. My thoughts exactly. I couldn't figure out why some were so excited about that. Seems to me that some continuity may go a longer way here to establish some much needed chemistry on D particularly. The same thing w/ why that want to get rid of Newman so quickly. He hasn't been the weak link on our D by a long shot and he's played well when asked. It makes little sense to me to bring in another player as a replacement when Newman's perfectly capable. How difficult is it to fit him in. He's fast, he's got good corner rushing capability. I just don't understand why they're talking about him as if he's Foreman.

[mchurchfie]

Yes, I absolutely agree Wys...someone is going to get a good pass rushing LB when they let Newman go..probably San Diego:shakeno:

[SABURZFAN]

don't let the records fool you.jacksonville is going through salary cap hell.arizona got hit with a couple of injuries on defense.brown is totally clueless when it comes to football talent and cincinatti fans have to suffer.

[Patrick76777]

Simply because these guys were position coaches on bad teams does not mean that they were bad coaches. You can’t make an omelet if you don’t have eggs.

[Jeff1220]

Originally posted by mchurchfie
Yes, I absolutely agree Wys...someone is going to get a good pass rushing LB when they let Newman go..probably San Diego:shakeno:

...or Atlanta.

I agree about the "winning tradition," (and Newman) but in the defense of D. Lebeau: regardless of his HC record in Cincy, there are a lot of Steelers fans around here who have only good things to say about him as a DC (as he was in Pitts). As we've said before, there are a lot of guys who are genius coordinators, but just can't make that next step up to HC.
Does that mean that he should be the Bills' DC? I don't really know. I liked what I saw from the D as the season finished up, but do we know that it was because of Gray's coaching? It wouldn't surprise me if GW ananomously took over the defensive reigns for a few games in an attempt to save his buddy's arse.

[mchurchfie]

Well, at least these guys have some NFL experience and aren't JUST good teachers as GW would put it:rolleyes:

[WG]

1220,

What did he do in Pittsburgh?

Here's what I've been able to find out. He became the Steelers D.C. in '95 for two years before going to Cincy.

In '94, the season prior to his becoming D.C., the Steelers allowed only 234 points and were 2nd in the league behind Cleveland.

In '95, his first season as D.C., they allowed over 100 more at 327 and fell to 8th.

In '96, they rebounded, but on the strength of an easy schedule playing only 3 teams better than 9-7. They beat us 10-6 and we weren't good that year w/ Kelly, Thurman, and Reed all having less than stellar years. They played 12-4 Carolina and S.F. and lost to both yielding over 20 PPG avg.

He then went to Cincy as an asst. H.C./D.C.

'97: 405 allowed
'98: 452 allowed
'99: 460 allowed
'00: 359 allowed
'01: 309 allowed
'02: 456 allowed

That isn't exactly marked improvement. And let's face it, they haven't exactly been in a division w/ powerhouse offensive talent.

So I guess that leaves me a little sketchy as to why this guy's such a marvelous coach other than he and TD have worked together in Pittsburgh.

Gray's D allowed 397 this year and that would have been around 300 if the D had played at the "improved rate" that it did over the last 10 games or so. I don't see why we would swap out LeBeau for Gray and lose out on some chemistry and continuity in the process.

Are we trying to hire the best as we say we are?

[Jeff1220]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
1220,

What did he do in Pittsburgh?

Here's what I've been able to find out. He became the Steelers D.C. in '95 for two years before going to Cincy.

In '94, the season prior to his becoming D.C., the Steelers allowed only 234 points and were 2nd in the league behind Cleveland.

In '95, his first season as D.C., they allowed over 100 more at 327 and fell to 8th.

In '96, they rebounded, but on the strength of an easy schedule playing only 3 teams better than 9-7. They beat us 10-6 and we weren't good that year w/ Kelly, Thurman, and Reed all having less than stellar years. They played 12-4 Carolina and S.F. and lost to both yielding over 20 PPG avg.

He then went to Cincy as an asst. H.C./D.C.

'97: 405 allowed
'98: 452 allowed
'99: 460 allowed
'00: 359 allowed
'01: 309 allowed
'02: 456 allowed

That isn't exactly marked improvement. And let's face it, they haven't exactly been in a division w/ powerhouse offensive talent.

So I guess that leaves me a little sketchy as to why this guy's such a marvelous coach other than he and TD have worked together in Pittsburgh.

Gray's D allowed 397 this year and that would have been around 300 if the D had played at the "improved rate" that it did over the last 10 games or so. I don't see why we would swap out LeBeau for Gray and lose out on some chemistry and continuity in the process.

Are we trying to hire the best as we say we are?

Do those figures include games in which the opposition scored under 20 points? hehe.

[THATHURMANATOR]

So let me get this right WYS you know like Gray?

[Jeff1220]

I, for one, am all for keeping Gray IF he is the reason for the D's sudden turn around at the end of the season. I'm not entirely convinced that he is, and only those at 1BD know for sure.

[NC-BILLS44]

They seemed to play better at the end of the season. But, shouldn't they find a way to use Newman's athletic ability????
IMHO, Newman can develop into a Pro Bowl player, if used properly. Would a new defensive coach develop schemes to match the talents of the players?

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
1220,

What did he do in Pittsburgh?

Here's what I've been able to find out. He became the Steelers D.C. in '95 for two years before going to Cincy.

In '94, the season prior to his becoming D.C., the Steelers allowed only 234 points and were 2nd in the league behind Cleveland.

In '95, his first season as D.C., they allowed over 100 more at 327 and fell to 8th.

In '96, they rebounded, but on the strength of an easy schedule playing only 3 teams better than 9-7. They beat us 10-6 and we weren't good that year w/ Kelly, Thurman, and Reed all having less than stellar years. They played 12-4 Carolina and S.F. and lost to both yielding over 20 PPG avg.

He then went to Cincy as an asst. H.C./D.C.

'97: 405 allowed
'98: 452 allowed
'99: 460 allowed
'00: 359 allowed
'01: 309 allowed
'02: 456 allowed

That isn't exactly marked improvement. And let's face it, they haven't exactly been in a division w/ powerhouse offensive talent.

So I guess that leaves me a little sketchy as to why this guy's such a marvelous coach other than he and TD have worked together in Pittsburgh.

Gray's D allowed 397 this year and that would have been around 300 if the D had played at the "improved rate" that it did over the last 10 games or so. I don't see why we would swap out LeBeau for Gray and lose out on some chemistry and continuity in the process.

Are we trying to hire the best as we say we are?

Wys I thought keeping your post down to minimum and less stats was you New years resolution. :p: j/k

If we bring in another DC will we have the same excuse like "we need the right players for this system. I for one wanted Gray fired. However I will admit that D of his looked a lot better towards the end allowing teams to score 10 pts. a game(?)

Do we risk keeping Gray only to find out that end-season D was a fluke or do we risk bringing in a new D and go through all those adjustments once again?

I trust TD will do what's best!

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by Patrick76777
Simply because these guys were position coaches on bad teams does not mean that they were bad coaches. You can’t make an omelet if you don’t have eggs.


short, concise, to-the-point, and couldn't agree more. :up: If the players in their charge are stinking up the joint yet have talent, I could see getting worried.

[Tatonka]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Nicely stated church. My thoughts exactly. I couldn't figure out why some were so excited about that. Seems to me that some continuity may go a longer way here to establish some much needed chemistry on D particularly. The same thing w/ why that want to get rid of Newman so quickly. He hasn't been the weak link on our D by a long shot and he's played well when asked. It makes little sense to me to bring in another player as a replacement when Newman's perfectly capable. How difficult is it to fit him in. He's fast, he's got good corner rushing capability. I just don't understand why they're talking about him as if he's Foreman.

i havent seen anyone rooting for newman to leave.. i would like him to stay for sure. i simply think that people read his last interview and can assume from his comments that he is not coming back by his own choice.:1:

[Nighthawk]

The numbers may have looked better for this defense at the end of the season, but please don't tell me that Gray has a clue...because he doesn't! Much of the improvement can be attributed to the bad weather that we played in during the last half of the season...GB, Cincy, SD, etc...

[RedEyE]

Welcome to the board Nighthawk.

[Nighthawk]

Thanks RedEye...much appreciated! :)

[WG]

Originally posted by Nighthawk
The numbers may have looked better for this defense at the end of the season, but please don't tell me that Gray has a clue...because he doesn't! Much of the improvement can be attributed to the bad weather that we played in during the last half of the season...GB, Cincy, SD, etc...

Sure!

Like the 10 points we allowed when it was like 90 degrees and I was stuck to my seat in Miami.

Or like the 17 points we allowed K.C. in 50 degree & sunny weather.

Or like the 17 points they held Detroit to in 50 deg. weather w/o rain in Buffalo.

We held S.D. and Cincy to 22 points between them in temps over freezing w/ no significant precipitation in those games. Actually, the Cincy weather was quite nice in the mid-30s and partly sunny.

They also held N.E. to only 20 points not including the 7 that Drew gave them in a game in the mid-40s w/ no rain. That wasn't too shabby either.

;)