Golisano/Hammister bids: A comparison

[Guest]

http://www.politicswny.com/bid.html

[Twistmyarm]

kinda makes you want to puke doesn't it?

Hey BUFFALO!!!!!:hammeru: wake the heck up!!!!!!!

[Don Cherry]

....But Hammister is a nice guy....

[clumping platelets]

Yep......he's got a lot of friends in high places, that's why he must look up to kiss their collective a$$e$!!!

[Earthquake Enyart]

You can't believe all the crap you read on the internet.

Oh, wait, you are here....

[clumping platelets]

I don't believe you !

[Ebenezer]

This thing has been over analyzed to death. The bottom line is that Adelphia holds the keys to pushing the team into bankruptcy. The only "deal" that is going to buy them off is Hamisters. They are not happy with the promisary note for 13 million that will only be paid IF the team becomes profitable. IF the team has not been profitable in the time that Adelphia/Rigas has owned them what would make them think they have ever been profitable. They and their creditors want their money and they want it now. Wouldn't you??

As I have typed before the state assistance is in the form of loans...Loans that have to be paid back...Loans from monies that ALREADY exist and will go to some other part of the state if we do not take them for work here in Buffalo.

[Buffarama]

It's remarkable to me how everyone needs to be told these simple facts over and over.
I think a lot of people take pleasure in crying about the money coming out of their pocket, even when in reality, their pocket will not be affected.
This money in fact is well invested money with the purpose of making the arena self sufficient and profitable. The other side of the coin is twice as bad for the arena as the situation is now.

[Ebenezer]

it's buffalo people just need a reason to bee-yatch....

if it were any other city and this were to happen they would bee-yatch slap the complainers and move on...


...all I have to say is I want to see the Yankee fans in this area scream when Steinbrenner extorts hundreds of millions of dollars of the state fund.

[Michael82]

Originally posted by Ebenezer
it's buffalo people just need a reason to bee-yatch....

if it were any other city and this were to happen they would bee-yatch slap the complainers and move on...


...all I have to say is I want to see the Yankee fans in this area scream when Steinbrenner extorts hundreds of millions of dollars of the state fund.

Actually, Rochester is just as bad! You should have seen how long it took for the Fast Ferry, and the new Soccer Stadium to get thru. Finally, after months of complaining from the voters and certain government workers...they were both approved and money was given to fund BOTH projects. Apparently Western NY would rather have their hard earned dollars go to NYC and that whole big area.

You are right about the Yankees! It's going to happen soon and once it does....I think you'll hear the same people that have been complaining about this. They will be complaining that the money is going to NYC and Long Island, but NOT here!

[HenryRules]

I'm just curious ... if the promissory note is unacceptable to the Rigas family because the team has been unprofitable and will in most likelihood continue to be so (as Eb said). Then how exactly will we be guaranteed that the state loans will be repaid instead of being defaulted? And if the loans are defaulted and a minimal amount is repaid to the state, then how is that not money coming out of the average citizens pocket? The reason these groups either have to get a promissory note or a loan from the state is because private banks want absolutely no part in lending money to the Sabres because they know the business plan of the Sabres (and in most cities in the NHL) is doomed to failure. If banks, who employ many, many people, to evaulate the cost-benefit of lending money, do not deem it beneficial to lend money to the Sabres, then why should we as taxpayers lend the money?
The situation that I, and I believe other posters would like to have seen, is no money for either bid. This would not have greatly affected the Golisano, but obvioulsy would have dramatically affected the Hammister bid. Under these circumstances, Adelphia and its creditors would have been faced with the following dilemma - accept $61 mil including a promissory note for $13 mil or accept a much smaller bid from Hammister.

[Ebenezer]

Originally posted by HenryRules
I'm just curious ... if the promissory note is unacceptable to the Rigas family because the team has been unprofitable and will in most likelihood continue to be so (as Eb said). Then how exactly will we be guaranteed that the state loans will be repaid instead of being defaulted? And if the loans are defaulted and a minimal amount is repaid to the state, then how is that not money coming out of the average citizens pocket? .... If banks, who employ many, many people, to evaulate the cost-benefit of lending money, do not deem it beneficial to lend money to the Sabres, then why should we as taxpayers lend the money?
The situation that I, and I believe other posters would like to have seen, is no money for either bid. This would not have greatly affected the Golisano, but obvioulsy would have dramatically affected the Hammister bid. Under these circumstances, Adelphia and its creditors would have been faced with the following dilemma - accept $61 mil including a promissory note for $13 mil or accept a much smaller bid from Hammister.

1. The Rigas family has nothing to do with this...please don't include them...all monies go to Adelphia.

2. What does anything have to do with private banks...the loans Hamister is talking about break down like this a) deferment of paying $23 million dollars that has already been loaned by the state (don't tell me people don't defer on their personal loans all the time); b) $10 million of new loans from the Empire State Development Zone fund. This fund gives money to thousands of businesses throughout NY state. The money already exists. No new taxes have to be created for this. If it does not go to Hamister it will go to somebody else. Most of the money already goes down state.

3. Your final assumption is just an assumption. You were not in control of the bidding process. Those were the ground rules. Sure it would be nice to have it that way but it didn't come down like that.

[HenryRules]

Originally posted by Ebenezer

2. What does anything have to do with private banks...the loans Hamister is talking about break down like this a) deferment of paying $23 million dollars that has already been loaned by the state (don't tell me people don't defer on their personal loans all the time); b) $10 million of new loans from the Empire State Development Zone fund. This fund gives money to thousands of businesses throughout NY state. The money already exists. No new taxes have to be created for this. If it does not go to Hamister it will go to somebody else. Most of the money already goes down state.

First, the idea of the Empire State Development fund is not to give away money without it ever being repaid back. Having said that, private banks have everything to do with this as part b) of your statement implies. Banks are unwilling to loan money to the Sabres because they do not expect to receive a return on their investment. If banks felt they would be gain a return on their investment, they would gladly loan the Sabres bids the money. Therefore, the lack of banks willing to loan the groups money is a strong indication that these loans will go unpaid. And again, if the loans go unpaid, that is money out of taxpayers pockets. Whether the money has been collected or not is irrelevant. When taxpayer money is collected for the purpose of loans, it is implied that the money loaned will be paid back (otherwise it wouldn't be called a loan) - and as I said, the private sector and Adelphia have already indicated this money will not be paid back.

As far as the loans being deferred not being a big problem ... the fact they are being deferred is incredibly decreasing the likelihood and amount of the payments that will be collected ... so yes, this is a loss of taxpayer money as its a decrease in the state's expected balance.

3. Your final assumption is just an assumption. You were not in control of the bidding process. Those were the ground rules. Sure it would be nice to have it that way but it didn't come down like that.

I'm curious as to how you are dismissing my situation so easily. Please tell me the flaw in the following reasoning. As it stands, the Galisano bid and the Hammister bid were the final options, implying they were the best options for the league and Adelphia. Removing the public money from Hammister's bid would have left Galisano's unchanged. Adelphia and the league would still have had the choice of Hammister's bid excluding the public money portion (if he still bothered to submit it) or the Galisano bid. Whether these options would have surfaced publicly or not is irrelevant, they still would have been presented to the league and Adelphia.

[Jim]

Mark Hammister is more photogenic than Galisano. Mark looks good on Fan TV. Could use a little teeth whitener though.