Lebeau! Good coach or another Donahoe buddy from his Pittsburgh days?

[WG]

Just curious what y'all think.

I'm just reading through LeBeau's history and from what I can see, there's nothing that makes me do cartwheels over the prospect of getting him in here.

We lose chemistry and some continuity by bringing in yet another new coach at a high level. LeBeau's crowning achievement was the year that the Steelers went to the SB. But their D was good, not great and he had quite a bit of talent. He only beat us and Indy to make it and we weren't the strongest teams either that year at 10-6 and 9-7.

IDK, I guess I'm somewhat critical and skeptical of these "I knew him in Pittsburgh" hirings as a result of bringing guys like Huntley, Johnson, Farris, and one or two others here. I wish we would just make some decisions based on performance instead of personal ties. Church pointed out why we're hiring a coach who was terrible at Cincy. Great question.

Thoughts?

[ArcticWildMan]

I'm not concerned. All coaches and GM's tend to hire people they know. Lebeau was a good D coordinator. I'd welcome him to Buffalo. Cincy never quit on him no matter how much they sucked. That says something about the guy.

[Don Cherry]

Put Vince Lombardi in Cincy and he'll look awful too.

Sometimes you find yourself in a hopeless situation.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I love the quote the old Mayor Daley had, when accused of hiring cronies:

"What do you think I'm gonna do? Hire my enemies?"

C'mon Wys, other than Rodney Peete, who coming here would excite you?

[lordofgun]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
C'mon Wys, other than Rodney Peete, who coming here would excite you?

Jeff Blake :D

[Don Cherry]

Let's see-

Get Chandler, until MVP Gannon comes over at QB

Hmmm.... Even thought they have contracts- What about Parcells/ Sherman/ Shanahan/

Rush MR Fumbles twice as many times per game and live around the 20 odd turnovers he would have (Unless Bryson is healthy)

And keep Gray- The Bills were able to hold Favre, Brees/Flutie, Lucas/Fiedler, and Kitna to poor performances in horrid weather (The same conditions that Drew sucked in).

[WG]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
I love the quote the old Mayor Daley had, when accused of hiring cronies:

"What do you think I'm gonna do? Hire my enemies?"

C'mon Wys, other than Rodney Peete, who coming here would excite you?

What, at QB?

Well, anyone who doesn't have a propensity to throw the ball to the DBs, DEs, and LBs when it matters most as well as a QB who can toss a TD w/o having to put up 250 yards on 45 attempts. I'm sure there's a bunch who fit that bill. ;)

[THATHURMANATOR]

Are you winking at me?

[THATHURMANATOR]

Also Wys I believe EE asked you a specific question that can be answered with names and not smart a** remarks.

[Earthquake Enyart]

No he's winking at me. If I use Jaded's mirror, I look good in a bathing suit too.

[mchurchfie]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart
No he's winking at me. If I use Jaded's mirror, I look good in a bathing suit too.

EEK!!

http://mchurchfie.freeyellow.com/mullet111.JPG

:biggrin::church:

[WG]

Originally posted by THATHURMANATOR
Also Wys I believe EE asked you a specific question that can be answered with names and not smart a** remarks.

Oh, OK there Mr. Keep the Peace!

Is there any name that I could have put in there that would not have resulted in a rash of insults and slurs directed at me?

Heck, no one answers any of my questions other than to simply categorically deny their premises based on nothing more than unverifiable opinions. As if I owe anyone anything in that regard.

Besides, EE and I were just kidding around a little bit. Lighten up, will ya...

[THATHURMANATOR]

I was just jokin WYS GUY!!! LOL

[THATHURMANATOR]

"As if I owe anyone anything in that regard. "

I disagree, I think you owe EE some answers!!!

[WG]

I think he owes me some too. ;)

How 'bout you? You love Drew. Wanna answer them?

Come on! Be a sport! :D

I'll start holding my breath....

NOW!

:D

[WG]

I think that thing in the leopard panties is callin' ya...

:biggrin:

[Earthquake Enyart]

Originally posted by Wys Guy


Heck, no one answers any of my questions other than to simply categorically deny their premises based on nothing more than unverifiable opinions. As if I owe anyone anything in that regard.



You mean there are questions buried in those diatribes?? :huh:

I thought those were just fillibusters.

What happened to the bonzai kittens?

[WG]

Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart


You mean there are questions buried in those diatribes?? :huh:

I thought those were just fillibusters.

What happened to the bonzai kittens?

1. Yes. You wouldn't know however since you don't read them. See, you never know what you're missing. I can ask you one question however if you promise to play nicely and actually answer it. If you do well, perhaps we can even ask another one.

2. LOL. :rolleyes: And this is the appreciation I get for actually trying. Why do I bother! Cooking, cleaning, laundr... Oh, sorry!

3. The entire site was a hoax. I suspected as much as the person who sent it to me is notorious for gobbling up internet hoaxes. I just posted it as a risk. Shame on me! Actually, in it's proper context of "cat haters", it's almost funny. Almost.

How'd I do? Do I get a 100?

[Earthquake Enyart]

No.

2 wasn't a question.

[WG]

Darn.

If it wasn't question, then there's only 2 questions. I should still get a 100.

[Nighthawk]

Wys - I've been gone a long time, but it's nice to see that you have not changed! I seem to remember you posting all of Bledsoe's numbers and saying how we should bring in another QB and not waste the money. Good thing the Bills didn't listen to you, huh? Lebeau is a good DC...he's a horrible Head Coach. Hey, I rather have him here than Gray! Everybody thinks that the defense made this huge improvement at the end of the season...guess what people, the weather had a lot to do with that. It was cold, damp, snowy and downright crappy a lot of those games and if you notice, the Bills offense didn't exactly tear it up down the stretch. Numbers aren't everything, there are other factors in how a team plays and the I believe the weather was a HUGE factor in the marked improvement be the Bills defense.

[Cntrygal]

Welcome Nighthawk! :)

[Nighthawk]

Thank you...Cntrygal!

[WG]

Hey Nighthawk, Welcome!!!

I suppose. But if you think about it, Bledsoe was instrumental in us losing 7 of 8 games.

Why did we lose the Raider game? Which drive/play(s) ended it? What happened on the following drive, specifically?

K.C.?

G.B.: We had TWO red zone opps. What happened on them? Why did G.B. get set up at our own 39 for their only TD of the game?

N.E.: What gave the Pats a 17 point lead in the second game?

N.E.: Why did we only put up 7 points in the first Pats game? (*Hint: It wasn't the D's fault!)

Jets: How many points did the Jets score off of Bledsoe TOs in those games?

If you are honest about that, then you might see why I don't care much for Drew as a QB. As a person I think he's tops!

Also, if he's so marvelous, then why has he only been able to put together 4 seasons in 10 w/ more than 20 TDs?

How do you explain the 13, 15, 16, 17, and 19 TD seasons if he's all that and a bag of chips?

Don't bother w/ the "he's a leader" and "he contributes more w/ his leadership and 3 INTs than he does w/ no leadership and 4 TDs" bit. That's gotten a bit old. See, the problem is all the fans with their "eyes wide shut" on this. You'll see next year. But yes, to your credit, it is good that the team got rid of RJ.

And by all means, don't be bashful in answering any of those questions!

[justasportsfan]

Wys loves to create controversy on the board. That's all. Keep's everyone's blood flowing since our season is done. He doesn't really mean what he says.

[WG]

:scratch:

[ublinkwescore]

We would have won 3 more games if our D had played the way it did the last few weeks of the season all year long - including one of the Pats games, the KC game in which they fell apart at the end of the game, the Denver and Oakland games as well - were games that the D was accountable equally as much as the Offense - we could have swept the AFC West.

[Doc]

The first Jets loss was the defense and ST's. The Raiders' game was the defense. The Chefs game was officiating and the play-calling (Gilbride calling a pass play two plays in a row when the Bills needed to run out the clock and get into scoring position while at the Chefs' 40-yard line?!). The Packers game was the fault of the O-line (the reason why the Packers' TD drive was set-up at the 39), Price for tipping a pass in the endzone into the iar to get INT'd, and again the officials for blowing Ahman Green's fumble. The Broncos game couldn't even remotely be pinned on Bledsoe. The first Pats game was a total team collapse, not just Bledsoe. I'll give you the 2nd Pats game and maybe the 2nd Jets game, but that's about it, and again it's not like the rest of the team showed up to play.

Remember that this was Bledsoe's first year with the Bills and Gilbride, behind a VERY inexperienced O-line who had poor coaching. With more familiarity with the offense and players and a better defense, I think we'll see some good things next year.

[WG]

What, am I missing something? Was Bledsoe a rookie w/ little experience?

I don't seem to see his name in there anywhere as having been the fault for losses.

ublink,

What do you expect out of the D? They held the #1 scoring offense in the league to only 17 points, nearly half of what they score on average, on their home field. Wouldn't you be satisfied with that every week w/ the offense that we have? I would! I'll take 17 each and every game next year allowed. If we had done that this season, then we'd have been 11-5 or 12-4.

8 of 10 playoff teams have scored more than that so far in 5 completed games. 17 points would mean 272 points against which would be good for #3 in the league behind Tampa and Philly.

Why was it the Ds fault for the K.C. loss? You should be singing their praises for that game and about 6 or 7 others in the last 10 in which they played well. We have much to look forward to next season. The young linemen will have improved so that our depth will be excellent. Still need that pass rusher DE and huge DT though.

[WG]

BTW, only three other teams held the Chiefs to 17 or fewer points. They all beat the Chiefs by scoring 23, 17, and 24. That was Jax, S.F., and Oakland.

I'd like to think that our O is better than S.F.'s and Jax's and about par w/ Oakland's.

[Doc]

Wys: How about this quote:

"I suppose. But if you think about it, Bledsoe was instrumental in us losing 7 of 8 games."

Instrumental says to me mostly at fault. If you meant to say that, taken with other players he had some responsibility for the loss, yes I'll agree that his mistakes contributed to those losses. However he more than acquitted himself over the course of the season, and again as I said, now that he's more familiar with the offense (a decade's worth of experience notwithstanding), they should be better next year.

[Nighthawk]

Wys, you make some good points. However, the Raiders scored how many points?? That's Bledsoe's fault...how?? Was he playing defense and I just missed it? Yes, there were games that he absolutely sucked in...for example those Pats games, but please give him a little credit. You're a Bills fan, right? Would you rather have him or Fiedler...how about Jim Miller...what about Plummer...or Kitna...or...I could go on and on. Man, take him for what he is worth, an average to above average QB. He's not the best in the league, but he is far from the worst. He has a problem with trying to win games by himself, if we get a defense in here...he won't have to.

As for Lebeau...BRING HIM IN! I'm just not a Jerry Gray fan...he looks lost on the sidelines.

[WG]

Originally posted by Doc
Wys: How about this quote:

"I suppose. But if you think about it, Bledsoe was instrumental in us losing 7 of 8 games."

Instrumental says to me mostly at fault. If you meant to say that, taken with other players he had some responsibility for the loss, yes I'll agree that his mistakes contributed to those losses. However he more than acquitted himself over the course of the season, and again as I said, now that he's more familiar with the offense (a decade's worth of experience notwithstanding), they should be better next year.

How did he acquit himself? Can you be more specific? What games, how?



Originally posted by Nighthawk
Wys, you make some good points. However, the Raiders scored how many points?? That's Bledsoe's fault...how?? Was he playing defense and I just missed it? Yes, there were games that he absolutely sucked in...for example those Pats games, but please give him a little credit. You're a Bills fan, right? Would you rather have him or Fiedler...how about Jim Miller...what about Plummer...or Kitna...or...I could go on and on. Man, take him for what he is worth, an average to above average QB. He's not the best in the league, but he is far from the worst. He has a problem with trying to win games by himself, if we get a defense in here...he won't have to.

As for Lebeau...BRING HIM IN! I'm just not a Jerry Gray fan...he looks lost on the sidelines.

Are you saying that Bledsoe is as good as Kitna, Miller, Plumber? Or are you saying I should be excited b/c he's better than they are?

As to you point, yes, the Raiders scored 49 points, but 7 of those were thanks to Drew and at the most critical time of the game. We were ahead at many times in that game which was a seesaw tennis match. We matched them, they matched us. The first to crack was Drew w/ a horrible throw to Buchanon to effectively end the game for us.

No problem though, Drew is a big-play kind of guy and the team responds b/c of him and he steps up when we need him too right? We'll set it all straight on the next drive, right?

Oops! Sack on 1st-and-10 for a loss of 4. Then sacked on 2nd-and-14 for another loss of 8. Then he overthrows Moulds on what would have been a first down and a 50 yard gain!

So how am I supposed to completely dismiss Bledsoe in this loss?

This is his legacy! If you don't see it, it's for one of two reasons. And I'm not being pejorative here, I'm simply saying why you may not realize this, it's b/c you either didn't watch him closely in N.E. or review any of his performances, or b/c you simply don't want to believe it.

I can fully understand the latter, b/c who wants less for a QB than they think they have. But that's the way he always plays. Only a game-by-game analysis will reveal that to some of you, but no one has the courage to take me up on the offer.

As to the Raider game again, mistakes cost us that game and Henry didn't make any nor get enough carries for him to receive either credit or blame. No one else made errors except for Drew. 3 INTs and a fumble although Mike Williams recovered the fumble for him. Gannon didn't make any. The only other player in the game who fumbled was Buchanon, a rookie.

I don't mind saying Drew is average, but if you and others want me to think he's even remotely in the top 10, then put up some of these big wins that we had as a result of him.

Any stiff can go in and beat Chicago, Cincy, Houston, Minnesota, Detroit, Miami when they have their starting QB and two starting WRs out. Even S.D. proved weak outside of their rushing game. So where are these "big wins" I keep hearing about. B/c a bunch of stiffs did beat those other teams. So to say Drew won a game against a team that was beaten by a team half as loaded as the Bills w/ Rodney Peete at QB along w/ half a dozen others, doesn't impress me.

It shouldn't impress you either! Why does it?

I would have been impressed w/ wins over Oakland, Denver, G.B., K.C., and a few over the Jets and N.E. Not the easiest teams on our schedule.

Nonetheless, just show me how and why the wins that we had were Drew's doing!

And please don't count wins where the D allowed fewer than 20 points! If this offense can't score at least 20 against the teams we beat, then we're simply not as good as everyone says we are.

[WG]

BTW, I'd take Fiedler in a NY second over Drew. On only half the attempts and on missing nearly half the season, JF put up over half the TDs that Drew did. He also didn't choke in all or most of his biggest games nor did he have the WRs that we have.

Here are the current starting QBs that I'd take over Drew all other things being equal:

Fiedler
McNair
Pennington
Brady
Maddox
Holcombe (if he's a starter)
Gannon
Green
Favre
McNabb
Vick
Garcia
Brooks
Carr

All things not being equal, I'd have taken Chandler or Blake, improved our DL and kept our 1st rounder for this season.

And as I've said before, here are the teams that Drew isn't going to be able to crap-the-bed in games with unlike this season if he expects me to change my mind next year:

Philly (where he's gonna get killed), Tennessee, K.C., and our divisional rivals. Those I expect to be the toughest 9 games on our schedule. If history holds, his numbers in those games will be terrible overall. He may have a good game or two, possibly even three. But if he's as good as many of you claim, then he should be able to do more than that. Right?

[Doc]

Hopefully next year the Bills will have a defense as good as most of the QB's on your list above have Wys. Hopefully they'll have a competent O-line coach who can teach pro passing-blocking technique as well. Last of all, the Bills weren't going to win the Pats or 2nd Jets game even if Joe Freakin' Montana were the QB, with the way the defense was playing.