Forked Thread: OK, let's compare...for those afflicted with ADD...

[The_Philster]

Forked from: OK, let's compare...for those afflicted with ADD... (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?postid=1201577)


A win over the Dolphins for starters.

A chance at being 3-3 after 6 games.

An offense that can put 20 points on the board.

A QB that knows how to get the ball to the WR's.

A QB that knows how to check out of a bad play and into a good one after seeing and understanding the defense in front of him.

A QB that knows the value of sliding after gaining positive yardage.

A QB leading the offense that the rest of the team has confidence in.

An opportunity to possibly look forward to the play-offs instead of just tanking the season and, once again, pinning your hopes on 'next year'.

Need I go on ???Question I have is how do people know JP wouldn't have played just as well against the Fish as Holcomb did? The play-calling was chamged quite a bit for Holcomb, IMO. If Clements weren't so in love with JP's physical skills, maybe he'd have cut down on the playbook for him and not put the game on his shoulders so much..as in..run the ball. They've made the excuse about getting away from the run against some of our earlier opponents that the run wasn't working...31 carries for 86 yards is less than 3 yards a pop...not what I consider a successful day running the ball but we stuck with it....double standards if you ask me

[Michael82]

Forked from: OK, let's compare...for those afflicted with ADD... (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?postid=1201577)

Question I have is how do people know JP wouldn't have played just as well against the Fish as Holcomb did? The play-calling was chamged quite a bit for Holcomb, IMO. If Clements weren't so in love with JP's physical skills, maybe he'd have cut down on the playbook for him and not put the game on his shoulders so much..as in..run the ball. They've made the excuse about getting away from the run against some of our earlier opponents that the run wasn't working...31 carries for 86 yards is less than 3 yards a pop...not what I consider a successful day running the ball but we stuck with it....double standards if you ask me
Great post, Phil! I totally agree with you. :bf1:

[justasportsfan]

Question I have is how do people know JP wouldn't have played just as well against the Fish as Holcomb did? The play-calling was chamged quite a bit for Holcomb, IMO. If Clements weren't so in love with JP's physical skills, maybe he'd have cut down on the playbook for him and not put the game on his shoulders so much..as in..run the ball. They've made the excuse about getting away from the run against some of our earlier opponents that the run wasn't working...31 carries for 86 yards is less than 3 yards a pop...not what I consider a successful day running the ball but we stuck with it....double standards if you ask me

Against the Falcons.

CP/AT YDS TD INT
J. Losman 10/23 75 0 1


ATT YDS TD LG
W. McGahee 27 140 1 21


We lost. :shakeno:.

The pass and running game are suppose to compliment each other. That's what happended last Sunday.



we stuck w/ the run because we had a huge lead . A luxury we haven't had w/ Losman in there since the 2nd game.The fins have been stuffing teams for 2.8 yards a carry. We got that w/ a rookie and a player we got off the streets of miami on the right side . Not bad if you ask me.


Why was Holcomb in there the first place? Because our QB was struggling. Call it a spark or whatever, we needed to fix what was broken. You don't have to be a genius to realize that.Did it work ? Here's proof . We won , Holcomb was efficient. Our wr's were catching balls and so were our TE's.


Our D wasn't on the field for a long time that they had enough gas to make plays. The Brown fumble and the 2 sacks at the end of the game.

[YardRat]

Forked from: OK, let's compare...for those afflicted with ADD... (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?postid=1201577)

Question I have is how do people know JP wouldn't have played just as well against the Fish as Holcomb did?

I take it you didn't watch much of the second half of the Houston game, and missed the Atlanta, new Orleans, and Tampa games altogether.

Blaming it on "play-calling" is BS...I certainly didn't see any drastic change in the types of plays the Bills ran, only in the execution. When you're able to complete a pass here and there, and put points on the board, it makes a huge difference in the amount of times you get to run the ball.

Willis has been getting his hands on the ball, play-percentage wise, regardless of who the QB was. 16 plays were run in the second half of the Saints game up until desperation time with about 4-1/2 minutes left. 8 were pass attempts, 8 were Willis rushing attempts.

Don't lay Losman's failure at someone else's feet, like Clements...place it on the shoulders they belong on.

[YardRat]

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=away align=left colSpan=2>Buffalo Bills at 07:57</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>1-10-BUF23</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(7:57) W.McGahee left guard to BUF 37 for 14 yards (J.Bullocks). (Ball spot changes from last play due to change of possession.)</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>1-10-BUF37</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(7:20) J.Losman sacked at BUF 28 for -9 yards (D.Howard). FUMBLES (D.Howard), and recovers at BUF 28. J.Losman to BUF 28 for no gain (W.Whitehead).</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>2-19-BUF28</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(6:39) (Shotgun) J.Losman left guard to BUF 35 for 7 yards (F.Thomas).</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>3-12-BUF35</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(5:53) (Shotgun) J.Losman sacked at BUF 24 for -11 yards (W.Smith).</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>4-23-BUF24</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(5:29) B.Moorman punts 43 yards to NO 33, Center-M.Schneck. A.Hakim to NO 41 for 8 yards (G.Wilson).

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=away align=left colSpan=2>Buffalo Bills at 03:57</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>1-10-BUF10</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(3:57) W.McGahee left guard to BUF 13 for 3 yards (C.Grant).</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>2-7-BUF13</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(3:19) PENALTY on BUF-G.Jerman, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at BUF 13 - No Play.</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>2-12-BUF8</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(3:08) W.McGahee right end to BUF 15 for 7 yards (D.Smith).</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>3-5-BUF15</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(2:27) (Shotgun) J.Losman pass to J.Reed ran ob at BUF 29 for 14 yards (D.Smith). (No yards after catch.)</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>1-10-BUF29</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(2:03) W.McGahee left tackle to BUF 34 for 5 yards (J.Craft, C.Watson). (BUF #71 Peters reported as an eligible receiver.)</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>2-5-BUF34</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(1:23) W.McGahee right guard to BUF 34 for no gain (C.Grant).</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>3-5-BUF34</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(:41) (Shotgun) J.Losman pass incomplete to E.Moulds.</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>4-5-BUF34</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(:37) B.Moorman punts 58 yards to NO 8, Center-M.Schneck. A.Hakim to NO 13 for 5 yards (L.Ezekiel).</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>1-10-BUF26</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(13:31) K.Holcomb pass incomplete to M.Campbell (D.Howard).</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>2-10-BUF26</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(13:28) W.McGahee up the middle pushed ob at NO 34 for 40 yards (J.Bullocks).
PENALTY on BUF-E.Moulds, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at NO 47.</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>1-10-BUF41</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(13:02) K.Holcomb FUMBLES (Aborted) at BUF 43, and recovers at BUF 41. K.Holcomb to BUF 41 for no gain (C.Grant).</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>2-12-BUF41</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(12:27) (Shotgun) K.Holcomb pass to J.Smith to NO 48 for 11 yards (J.Bullocks).</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>3-1-NO48</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(11:45) W.McGahee up the middle to NO 48 for no gain (C.Grant).</TD></TR><TR class=bg2 vAlign=center align=right height=17><TD class=bg3 align=left>4-1-NO48</TD><TD class=bg3 align=left>(11:20) W.McGahee up the middle to 50 for -2 yards (D.Smith).</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Mudflap1]

The playcalling was not much different than when Losman was in the game. The only difference was that Holcomb was able to cycle through his options/progressions and Losman wasn't. We stuck to the run (for once) because it was the 2nd half and we were up by 17. Good! I'm glad they stuck to the run, but it became very predictable where and when we were going to run the ball. My complaint there is that the playcalling should have been mixed up a bit more. Play action pass on first, run on second (and hopefully) third. Stuff like that.Did anybody hear (maybe it was on the Sunday night telecast) Ben Roethlisberger talk about his first season? He said that he was thrown into the mix so quickly, that he only had time to memorize one receiver route per play, so what he would do is call the play, drop back to pass, purposely look off of a couple of other guys just to fool the defense, then throw it to the one guy that he knew would be there. He said now he knows most, if not all, the progressions.Losman needs time. Hopefully he'll get there. But don't pretend he would've had a 106 QB rating last week. That's double what his is for the season so far.Jon

[lordofgun]

I take it you didn't watch much of the second half of the Houston game, and missed the Atlanta, new Orleans, and Tampa games altogether.

Blaming it on "play-calling" is BS...I certainly didn't see any drastic change in the types of plays the Bills ran, only in the execution. When you're able to complete a pass here and there, and put points on the board, it makes a huge difference in the amount of times you get to run the ball.

Willis has been getting his hands on the ball, play-percentage wise, regardless of who the QB was. 16 plays were run in the second half of the Saints game up until desperation time with about 4-1/2 minutes left. 8 were pass attempts, 8 were Willis rushing attempts.

Don't lay Losman's failure at someone else's feet, like Clements...place it on the shoulders they belong on.
Just like you forgot about the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarters against the fish?

We barely held on against a crappy fish team.

[BillsFever21]

Just like you forgot about the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarters against the fish?

We barely held on against a crappy fish team.

:clap:

Holcomb only had 60 yards passing after the first quarter when the Dolphins finally decided to show up for the game.

[justasportsfan]

you guys are blaming Holcomb for the playcalling being conservative in the second half?

[colin]

since we are asking what ifs:

what starting losman too soon is hurting him?

what if losman is a bust?

what if he can learn more now on the bench instead of regressing in the games?

what if losman is putting too much pressure on himself and will lose his own and the team's confidence by playing poorly?

saying that holcombe won't lead us to a super bowl so we need to start losman isn't right, it assumes way too many things.

[justasportsfan]

what if he can learn more now on the bench instead of regressing in the games?
.who was he watching last year? He may learn more from Holcomb than Drew. Holding on to the ball and waiting for wrs to get open was a Drew trait that JP may have adopted.

[YardRat]

Just like you forgot about the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th quarters against the fish?

We barely held on against a crappy fish team.

Holcomb's drives after the first quarter against the fish...

8 atts 7 comp 32 yds TD
2 atts 2 comp 11 yds
4 atts 2 comp 8 yds
4 atts 3 comp 22 yds
1 att 1 comp 8 yds
1 att 1 comp 5 yds
1 att 1 comp 17 yds FG

21 atts, 17 comp, 103 yds, 10 pts...and most importantly, a WIN.

I'll take that...you wouldn't??

[finsrclowns]

Forked from: OK, let's compare...for those afflicted with ADD... (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?postid=1201577)

Question I have is how do people know JP wouldn't have played just as well against the Fish as Holcomb did?

How do you know smoking causes cancer?:jk:

[gr8slayer]

Forked from: OK, let's compare...for those afflicted with ADD... (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?postid=1201577)

Question I have is how do people know JP wouldn't have played just as well against the Fish as Holcomb did? The play-calling was chamged quite a bit for Holcomb, IMO. If Clements weren't so in love with JP's physical skills, maybe he'd have cut down on the playbook for him and not put the game on his shoulders so much..as in..run the ball. They've made the excuse about getting away from the run against some of our earlier opponents that the run wasn't working...31 carries for 86 yards is less than 3 yards a pop...not what I consider a successful day running the ball but we stuck with it....double standards if you ask me
Bravo

[The_Philster]

you guys are blaming Holcomb for the playcalling being conservative in the second half?
Not unless Holcomb were in charge of the playcalling in all 5 games

[BillsFever21]

Holcomb's drives after the first quarter against the fish...

8 atts 7 comp 32 yds TD
2 atts 2 comp 11 yds
4 atts 2 comp 8 yds
4 atts 3 comp 22 yds
1 att 1 comp 8 yds
1 att 1 comp 5 yds
1 att 1 comp 17 yds FG

21 atts, 17 comp, 103 yds, 10 pts...and most importantly, a WIN.

I'll take that...you wouldn't??

3 fumbles, 3 drive ending sacks and about 40 yards passing in the 2nd half.

[justasportsfan]

3 fumbles, 3 drive ending sacks and about 40 yards passing in the 2nd half. result ? Bills WIN.

[Nic82]

How do people know JP wouldn't have played just as well against the Fish as Holcomb did? Because at this point JP is incapable of completing 70% of his passes.

[The_Philster]

Because at this point JP is incapable of completing 70% of his passes.
at this point? Last I knew, he hasn't played in 2 weeks. We stopped letting him progress by benching him

[Nic82]

at this point? Last I knew, he hasn't played in 2 weeks. We stopped letting him regress by benching him


:goodpost:

[snow1989]

at this point? Last I knew, he hasn't played in 2 weeks. We stopped letting him progress by benching him

I don't think JP was progressing and that's why he was benched. He seemed more unsure and hesitant...too much pressure on himself?...line breakdowns?...too long going through his reads?....probably all factors. I don't think its fair to call him a bust yet. If he's mature enough to handle the benching he'll be fine, but leaving in there with losses mounting, fans booing and the media rips wouldn't have helped his progression either. Might have even ruined his psyche and confidence. Time will tell.

[Nic82]

at this point? Last I knew, he hasn't played in 2 weeks. We stopped letting him progress by benching him

<TABLE class=tablehead cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR class=stathead bgColor=#00133f><TD colSpan=3>2005 Game Log <TD align=middle colSpan=8>Passing</TD><TD align=middle colSpan=6>Rushing</TD></TR><TR class=colhead align=right><TD align=left>WEEK</TD><TD align=left>OPP</TD><TD align=left>RESULT </TD><TD>CMP</TD><TD>ATT</TD><TD>YDS</TD><TD>CMP%</TD><TD>LNG</TD><TD>TD</TD><TD>INT</TD><TD>RAT</TD><TD>ATT</TD><TD>YDS</TD><TD>AVG</TD><TD>TD</TD></TR><!--count=0 gameWeek=1--><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD align=left>1</TD><TD align=left>HOU</TD><TD align=left>W 22-7 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=250911002) </TD><TD>17</TD><TD>28</TD><TD>170</TD><TD>60.7</TD><TD>42</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>89.9</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>31</TD><TD>5.2</TD><TD>0</TD></TR><!--count=1 gameWeek=2--><TR class=evenrow align=right><TD align=left>2</TD><TD align=left>@TB</TD><TD align=left>L 19-3 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=250918027) </TD><TD>11</TD><TD>28</TD><TD>113</TD><TD>39.3</TD><TD>30</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>51.6</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>13</TD><TD>3.3</TD><TD>0</TD></TR><!--count=2 gameWeek=3--><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD align=left>3</TD><TD align=left>ATL</TD><TD align=left>L 24-16 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=250925002) </TD><TD>10</TD><TD>23</TD><TD>75</TD><TD>43.5</TD><TD>17</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>33.8</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>20</TD><TD>4.0</TD><TD>0</TD></TR><!--count=3 gameWeek=4--><TR class=evenrow align=right><TD align=left>4</TD><TD align=left>@NO</TD><TD align=left>L 19-7 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=251002018) </TD><TD>7</TD><TD>15</TD><TD>75</TD><TD>46.7</TD><TD>19</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>34.0</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>38</TD><TD>9.5</TD><TD>0</TD></TR><!--count=4 gameWeek=5--><TR class=oddrow align=right><TD align=left>5</TD><TD align=left>MIA</TD><TD align=left>W 20-14 (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=251009002) </TD><TD align=middle colSpan=15>Did Not Play</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

You're right! Shame on the Bills. At this pace JP would have a 53.1 completion % with 75 passing yards and a QB rating of 34.4 against the JETS.

[YardRat]

at this point? Last I knew, he hasn't played in 2 weeks. We stopped letting him progress by benching him

Uhhhhh...I believe JP started and played most of the New Orleans game...unless that was just another Mularkey ruse regarding the QB's and he put Holcomb out there in a #7 jersey.

[The_Philster]

fine...12 days

[The_Philster]

I don't think JP was progressing and that's why he was benched. He seemed more unsure and hesitant...too much pressure on himself?...line breakdowns?...too long going through his reads?....probably all factors. I don't think its fair to call him a bust yet. If he's mature enough to handle the benching he'll be fine, but leaving in there with losses mounting, fans booing and the media rips wouldn't have helped his progression either. Might have even ruined his psyche and confidence. Time will tell.
he seems to be more confident than that...if, as Dozer stated, he lets that stuff get to him, he'll never make it

[YardRat]

Personally, I think benching Losman is better for his personal development at this point in his career. And better for the team at the moment.

It doesn't hurt to be humbled every once in awhile...makes you appreciate what you had even more, and makes you work harder in the future to keep it.

[Nic82]

Personally, I think benching Losman is better for his personal development at this point in his career. And better for the team at the moment.

It doesn't hurt to be humbled every once in awhile...makes you appreciate what you had even more, and makes you work harder in the future to keep it.

I agree.

[The_Philster]

personal development..maybe...his career...no..if he doesn't regain the starting role til much later, I'll be waiting to see all the complaints about how he plays like a rookie in 2006

[YardRat]

I didn't mean his personal development in regards to spiritual enlightenment or anything like that, phil...I meant personal development re:his ability to play QB in the NFL

[The_Philster]

I didn't mean his personal development in regards to spiritual enlightenment or anything like that, phil...I meant personal development re:his ability to play QB in the NFL
I hope you're right...but honestly, as long as I've watched football, QBs learn by playing

[YardRat]

In the old days, QB's were developed...free agency and the salary cap screwed that scenario.

Now it's more of a necessity to get a guy in there, sometimes before he's ready, and see if he can play. That doesn't mean it's the only way to develop a QB or preclude him from learning the old-fashioned way.

I'm not giving up on JP by any means, and truly hope that he develops into the franchise leader that some envision him to be. At this point in his career, though, he's had the chance to prove whether he can play at a certain level or not, and he can't.

I'm also not ready to give up on this year so quickly, though, either. Yes we have other issues regarding the offensive line and defense, but those issues can be partailly resolved by a QB that can help effectively manage the game when the ball is in the offense's hands. Holcomb can (so far, even though we've only seen one game), and JP can't, and until Holcomb proves that he can't also I'm willing to take the risk that this move doesn't inhibit JP's development yet at the same time gives this year's team the best chance at some kind of success.

We have offensive weapons...Evans, Moulds, McGahee, Shelton, Campbell, and will soon be adding Parrish to the mix.

We have, hands down, the best special teams in football...McGee, Smith, Clements, Stamer, Moorman, and yes, even Lindell and will be adding Parrish to that mix also.

Although we probably won't have the dominating defense we had last year, we still have playmakers in Clements, McGee, Milloy, Vincent, Fletcher, Adams, and some youth that should be ready to step in and fill the void due to injuries to TKO and Edwards.

This team can win, and it can win now. The division is up for grabs, and we've got just as good of a shot as taking it as anybody at this point in the season.

If we can string a few wins together, we've got just as good a shot at the play-offs as anybody and I'm not willing to forego that opportunity on the off chance that JP develops sometime down the line.

[Mr. Cynical]

until Holcomb proves that he can't also I'm willing to take the risk

What qualifies as proving he can't do it? How many games?

[YardRat]

What qualifies as proving he can't do it? How many games?

Somewhere between one and eleven :D

[Mr. Cynical]

Somewhere between one and eleven :D

That's what I figured you'd say. :up: :;