2005: A season of waste

[Mr. Cynical]

We aren't going to make the playoffs. This team is not a playoff team, regardless of the QB. JP's growth is getting stunted by not playing, so he'll have to to start over again next season. MM/TD have effectively pushed back our becoming competitive by yet another year.

NOTE: I am not guaranteeing JP is the real deal. I am guaranteeing playing KH is a postponement of finding out, which effectively postpones the team's progress. Meaning, if he is the real deal, he'll be playing well by the end of the year/start of next season. If he is not the real deal, then at least we know what we need to do in the draft/FA in the offseason. But if we don't know which he is, then we have to go through this BS all over again next year and then won't go after our franchise QB until '07.

TD is a joke and needs to go. Egotistical, stubborn, power hungry and maker of bad choices. The more seasons he fails, the more the brilliance of the 90s Steelers falls on Cowher, not TD.

[Dozerdog]

Then give up on it.

Pack it in- we will see ya next year!

[venis2k1]

stop being so Cynical, if we lose 2 of our next 3 and JP will be in. so lets all root for the jets this weekend, so we can "prepare for our future"

[Novacane]

I'm gonna start a Donahoe must go chant sunday

[TacklingDummy]

Sitting for 1 to 5 games will not stunt JPs growth. It may even help him.

It was obvouis to almost everyone the kid needed to take a seat on the bench right now. If he continued to play the way he was playing it would do nothing but hurt what little confidence he had left.

[Mr. Cynical]

Being benched and replaced by a 9 yr career backup isn't going to help his confidence either.

[Mr. Cynical]

Then give up on it.

Pack it in- we will see ya next year!

By playing KH we ARE giving up. I wish Holcombites could see that. :shakeno:

[Jersey1031]

Sitting for 1 to 5 games will not stunt JPs growth. It may even help him.


This is true. It could make him even more hungry to get back on the field. He can't just be given the position, he must earn it...This isnt pop warner football, he's a football player of the NFL, he's gotta stop whinning & be competitive.

[TacklingDummy]

By playing KH we ARE giving up.

How?

[Dozerdog]

Being benched and replaced by a 9 yr career backup isn't going to help his confidence either.

By playing KH we ARE giving up. I wish Holcombites could see that. :shakeno:

How?I'ts the Chicken Little Syndroome- the sky is always falling!


What is such the rush? Are you dying of cancer or something? Only 1-2 seasons left to live?


What is the big hurry in getting JP in there? He's a square peg in a round hole right now- stop trying to force it.


If Holcombe is losing- put JP in. You can lose with anyone. But Holcombe won. Ride with it.


If JP will be irrevocably "damaged" by this benching- then he's too big of a pussy to be an NFL quarterback in the first place. Mr Cynical- quit making JP out to be a bigger pussy than he is. He's a man- he better be able to take the good with the bad or get the F out of town.


We won with Holcombe under center- Only if Mr Cynical could see that :shakeno:

[The_Philster]

It's not a case of not being able to handle the benching...it's a case of by benching him, we're delaying his development...putting off the inevitable...he's either gonna struggle now or next year or whenever he gets back in there. The only thing that will prevent him from struggling is giving up on him

[justasportsfan]

By playing KH we ARE giving up. I wish Holcombites could see that. :shakeno:by saying Holcombites do you mean our players? Someone should tell them not to bother playing Sunday because it's a waste.

They have nothing to play for because fans that shared the same opinion that the Chargers were going to finish last place last year said, they aren't gonna go anywhere.

I cheered for Van Pelt even though I knew he wasn't the answer. I was proud to call him a Buffalo bill. He did his best and never gave up. In the last game in Miami when we went 3-13 , I was there and I was proud to be a bills fan. Even finfans gave their props to AVP in that losing cause.

[BAM]

Then give up on it.

Pack it in- we will see ya next year!


:peace:

13 and 3, baby!!

[Dozerdog]

Drafting another QB is giving up on him. Signing a young hotshot backup is giving up on him. Having two career journeymen backing him up pretty much indiucates to me that he's going to be here a long time. Hell- we dumped Bledsoe to give this guy a chance- what kind of signal does that send??????

Sitting a guy who is performing worse than Jonathan Quinn of the Bears last year a few games isn't giving up on him

Quit being drama queens about it.

[finsrclowns]

By playing KH we ARE giving up. I wish Holcombites could see that. :shakeno:

If you feel that way then this is a great opportunity for you Sunday to root for the Jets. Think of the benefits:

a) if we lose we're that much closer to JP getting back in.:up:
b) if we lose we're that much closer to missing the playoffs so you get to say you were right.:up:
c) if we lose your "TD must go" threads will get lots of attention.:up:

So get out your "Fireman Ed" hat and start the chant "J-E-T-S, JETS, JETS, JETS"

:funny:

[justasportsfan]

It's not a case of not being able to handle the benching...it's a case of by benching him, we're delaying his development...putting off the inevitable...he's either gonna struggle now or next year or whenever he gets back in there. The only thing that will prevent him from struggling is giving up on himPhil, I have yet to see anyone say we give up on Losman. (exept for TDummy) There is still a season to be played and we are not out of it. Have you learned anything from Wade when we had the same record as the Colts and they instead went to the plaoffs because they didn't give up?


You on the other hand give up on the rest of the team when your only goal is develop 1 player and ignore all the hardship the other players go through to try and win.

[BAM]

How?

By playing KH, we got a win. So I guess we're giving up by winning with KH? I'm confused.

[BillsFever21]

So KH is the only reason why we won?

[The_Philster]

Phil, I have yet to see anyone say we give up on Losman. (exept for TDummy) There is still a season to be played and we are not out of it. Have you learned anything from Wade when we had the same record as the Colts and they instead went to the plaoffs because they didn't give up?


You on the other hand give up on the rest of the team when your only goal is develop 1 player and ignore all the hardship the other players go through to try and win.Where did I say we were giving up on Losman completely in this thread? What I said was that the only way to not have him struggle is to give up on him. As far as giving up on the rest of the team...? I have some oceanfront property in Kansas for you if you think Holcomb is going to fix enough holes in the team to make us a Super Bowl champ

[Jersey1031]

So get out your "Fireman Ed" hat and start the chant "J-E-T-S, JETS, JETS, JETS"



NEVER!

[The_Philster]

So KH is the only reason why we won?
Going by what some are saying...personally, I felt that the game-planning early on, the defense coming up with some takeaways, T-Mac's return ability were factors as well....but what do I know? I was under the impression that football was a team game :idunno:

[BAM]

I'd be willing to bet we would have lost that game with James Paul in there. Unfortunately.

[The_Philster]

I'd be willing to bet we would have lost that game with James Paul in there. Unfortunately.considering there's no James Paul on the roster, I'd have to agree with you. Jonathan Paul, on the other hand, may have played well with a decent game plan not influenced by Clements' love of throwing the whole playbook at him.

[BAM]

Great post, Phil.

[BAM]

James, John, JP. Whatever his name is. LOL

[BillsFever21]

Going by what some are saying...personally, I felt that the game-planning early on, the defense coming up with some takeaways, T-Mac's return ability were factors as well....but what do I know? I was under the impression that football was a team game :idunno:

Same. If Miami would've played like the rest of the teams we lost to and not turned the ball over 5 times and committed 18 penalties this game wouldn't have been a contest.

Once Miami got their head out of their ass they owned us. Holcomb ended 3 drives with sacks and fumbled 3 times in the 2nd half. This is what we have more of seeing over the next few weeks.

This is a bad team and we're not making the playoffs no matter who we start. Holcomb had a good first quarter and that was it. The rest of the way he sucked royal stinking, raunchy ass which was after Miami actually started playing.

We would be 2-3 with Holcomb starting the entire year too. Losman would've won the Miami game too. We had 236 total yards which is right where our yearly average is. What more did Holcomb do besides one great run after the catch by Evans?

5 TO's and 18 penalties is why we won the game. Had we done that the previous 3 weeks we also would've won. The defense finally caused a couple TO's and Miami played their way into a defeat.

[BillsFever21]

considering there's no James Paul on the roster, I'd have to agree with you. Jonathan Paul, on the other hand, may have played well with a decent game plan not influenced by Clements' love of throwing the whole playbook at him.

:clap:

[justasportsfan]

Where did I say we were giving up on Losman completely in this thread? What I said was that the only way to not have him struggle is to give up on him. As far as giving up on the rest of the team...? I have some oceanfront property in Kansas for you if you think Holcomb is going to fix enough holes in the team to make us a Super Bowl champ Is that the same property you bought when you thought Rob Johnson was our future :snicker:

I never said Holcomb will take us to the sb :rolleyes:

JP wasn't throwing the ball when he had to. Maybe hell learn from watching Holcomb, when to throw and how to spot an open wr. He hasn't done that in 3 games but yet Holcomb did that in 1 game.

[BAM]

For the record, I wanted JP in there all season long this year, but you can't turn back now if we keep winning with KH. We'll see.

[justasportsfan]

Going by what some are saying...personally, I felt that the game-planning early on, the defense coming up with some takeaways, T-Mac's return ability were factors as well....but what do I know? I was under the impression that football was a team game :idunno:and it is. This is why you put in the best player that gives you the best chance to win.

What did Holcomb's presence do?

It got the D to stay off the field longer so that when they come back in , they aren't too tired to make plays. Isn't that what happened?

Josh Reed wasn't the only reciever all of a sudden. the other wr's responded differently compared to JP.

Campbell caught some balls all of a sudden.


You want a TEAM? Keep the other players on the team happy. Give them a chance to make something happen. They asked for the qb that they think (not what we think) gives them the best chance to win and let them do their part.

This is a TEAM game, not a develop one player game.

[Dozerdog]

I'm not going to be like some peole and know what's going on with JPL's supposedly "fragile" mental state-

But what would be more damaging to confidence?


Losing to teams that get beAT 52-3 the next week? Throwing for 75 yards PER GAME?


Or sitting for a FEW WEEKS?

I would think getting your ass handed to you week after week after week would be more damaging. But I'm not a shrink.

[The_Philster]

Is that the same property you bought when you thought Rob Johnson was our future :snicker:I thought he was possibly the future...so sue me...I was wrong


I never said Holcomb will take us to the sb :rolleyes:so why play him...or don't you wanna win the Super Bowl?

What did Holcomb's presence do?

It got the D to stay off the field longer so that when they come back in , they aren't too tired to make plays. Isn't that what happened?

Josh Reed wasn't the only reciever all of a sudden. the other wr's responded differently compared to JP.

Campbell caught some balls all of a sudden.so that was all Holcomb's doing? It had nothing to do with the fact that the Miami defense was horrid early on...had nothing to do with the fact that Clements stuck with the run when it wasn't working? Interesting :scratch: You say it's a team game and yet this comes off your keyboard

[justasportsfan]

Preston has great potential. As soon as Chris Villarial is healthy, screw him . Sit is a$$ down and let's develop Preston. Lets bench Moulds when Parrish is healthy and develop Parrish since some people think that Evans will be no.1 and Parrish eventually no. 2.

[The_Philster]

I'm not going to be like some peole and know what's going on with JPL's supposedly "fragile" mental state-

But what would be more damaging to confidence?


Losing to teams that get beAT 52-3 the next week? Throwing for 75 yards PER GAME?


Or sitting for a FEW WEEKS?

I would think getting your ass handed to you week after week after week would be more damaging. But I'm not a shrink.Dozer...more often than not I agree with you..politics and football alike...but who's talking about JP's mental state?

[The_Philster]

Preston has great potential. As soon as Chris Villarial is healthy, screw him . Sit is a$$ down and let's develop Preston. Lets bench Moulds when Parrish is healthy and develop Parrish since some people think that Evans will be no.1 and Parrish eventually no. 2.2 things...1..Preston was drafted to take over at C next year..not RG
2...apples and oranges

[justasportsfan]

I thought he was possibly the future...so sue me...I was wrong
so why play him...or don't you wanna win the Super Bowl? because you have other players who still want to win and they need help at achieving that.



so that was all Holcomb's doing? It had nothing to do with the fact that the Miami defense was horrid early on...had nothing to do with the fact that Clements stuck with the run when it wasn't working? Interesting :scratch: You say it's a team game and yet this comes off your keyboard did I say it was Holcomb that did it by himself? read my post, the wr's became alive allof a sudden. Don't tell me that Clements tells JP to just throw to Reed and no one else. Don't tell me that Clements tells Jp "don't look for asn open wr. Just run the ball as soon as you don't see one open in the first 3 seconds".

[Dozerdog]

Dozer...more often than not I agree with you..politics and football alike...but who's talking about JP's mental state?
Everyone who thinks this will irrepibaly damage his confidence.


Bull****

[justasportsfan]

2 things...1..Preston was drafted to take over at C next year..not RG
2...apples and oranges does it matter, he did a good job didn't he? RG or C he needs experience. So let's start him at Center now and screw Teague then, no?

[The_Philster]

because you have other players who still want to win and they need help at achieving that. You don't think they wanna win a Super Bowl?


did I say it was Holcomb that did it by himself? read my post, the wr's became alive allof a sudden. Don't tell me that Clements tells JP to just throw to Reed and no one else. Don't tell me that Clements tells Jp "don't look for asn open wr. Just run the ball as soon as you don't see one open in the first 3 seconds".JP's a rookie yet they threw the whole playbook at him...and Clements seems to call more plays that utilize JP as a runner and as a passer than he calls handoffs...like I said 31 carries for 86 yards..run wasn't working yet we stuck with it with Holcomb...we gave up on it with JP when it wasn't working...that took away from the offensive balance and teams were able to tee off and play the pass

[YardRat]

Going by what some are saying...personally, I felt that the game-planning early on, the defense coming up with some takeaways, T-Mac's return ability were factors as well....but what do I know? I was under the impression that football was a team game :idunno:

If you are under the impression it's a team game, why are you so vehemently defending a single individual's place on that team?

As for anybody that actually has plans to root for the Jets this weekend just so you're beloved JP can have a shot at getting the starting job back you might want to think about turning in your BB Fan Club card, 'cause you don't deserve having one to begin with. With fans like you, who needs trolls?

[The_Philster]

Everyone who thinks this will irrepibaly damage his confidence.


Bull****
Well...more often than not, you know what you're talking about...I guess I just am not seeing those posts :peace:

[justasportsfan]

Phil, why weren't you screaming for JP to start developing when he got healthy instead of Drew? Was it because we had a shot at playoffs? Don't tell me you thought Drew was gonna take us to the SB either.

[The_Philster]

If you are under the impression it's a team game, why are you so vehemently defending a single individual's place on that team?

As for anybody that actually has plans to root for the Jets this weekend just so you're beloved JP can have a shot at getting the starting job back you might want to think about turning in your BB Fan Club card, 'cause you don't deserve having one to begin with. With fans like you, who needs trolls?That's beyond uncalled for...drop the personal attacks...I've rooted for the Bills no matter who's under center and I'll continue to do so til the day the Bills no longer exist

[BAM]

Seems like Phil and a few others have begun to like JP a little bit too much...

:limpclap:

[Scumbag College]

Same. If Miami would've played like the rest of the teams we lost to and not turned the ball over 5 times and committed 18 penalties this game wouldn't have been a contest.

Once Miami got their head out of their ass they owned us. Holcomb ended 3 drives with sacks and fumbled 3 times in the 2nd half. This is what we have more of seeing over the next few weeks.

This is a bad team and we're not making the playoffs no matter who we start. Holcomb had a good first quarter and that was it. The rest of the way he sucked royal stinking, raunchy ass which was after Miami actually started playing.

We would be 2-3 with Holcomb starting the entire year too. Losman would've won the Miami game too. We had 236 total yards which is right where our yearly average is. What more did Holcomb do besides one great run after the catch by Evans?

5 TO's and 18 penalties is why we won the game. Had we done that the previous 3 weeks we also would've won. The defense finally caused a couple TO's and Miami played their way into a defeat.

Agreed. A good team going against a visiting team that commits 18 penalties, gives up five turnovers, and has a 17 point lead at the half shouldn't have to win the game by forcing a rookie running back to fumble during a last minute drive. A last minute drive that would have potentially given them a one point win with a touchdown, btw.

There is something very wrong with this team; either with coaching, personnel, execution, or quite possibly all three. I think whomever starts at QB this year, it will be a longshot for the Bills to make the playoffs. I hope I'm wrong.

[The_Philster]

Phil, why weren't you screaming for JP to start developing when he got healthy instead of Drew? Was it because we had a shot at playoffs? Don't tell me you thought Drew was gonna take us to the SB either.Our defense was playing pretty damn well in that stretch..McGahee was running well...special teams..tops in the league..we had a shot

[The_Philster]

Seems like Phil and a few others have begun to like JP a little bit too much...

:limpclap:
:rolleyes: I'm just not willing to throw him under the bus and blame him for all the team's mistakes like many seem to be doing

[justasportsfan]

You don't think they wanna win a Super Bowl? they obviously do which is why they want Holcomb instead of KH, helloooo!




JP's a rookie yet they threw the whole playbook at him...and Clements seems to call more plays that utilize JP as a runner and as a passer than he calls handoffs...like I said 31 carries for 86 yards..run wasn't working yet we stuck with it with Holcomb...we gave up on it with JP when it wasn't working...that took away from the offensive balance and teams were able to tee off and play the pass Was it Clements or was it JP who jusr decided to run w/ the ball? It was also Clemens who tells JP to go forward instead of sliding. :rolleys: makes you wonder who decides to do what w/ the ball ,eh?

[The_Philster]

they obviously do which is why they want Holcomb instead of KH, helloooo! nice to have blind faith...I'll admit I pick the Bills to win every week and I pick them for the Super Bowl every preseason as well...but I guess I see more holes than the players do



Was it Clements or was it JP who jusr decided to run w/ the ball? It was also Clemens who tells JP to go forward instead of sliding. :rolleys: makes you wonder who decides to do what w/ the ball ,eh?designed rollouts and QB draws...I guess Clements gave JP the authoroty to audible pretty loosely, huh? ;)

[YardRat]

You don't think they wanna win a Super Bowl?
JP's a rookie yet they threw the whole playbook at him...and Clements seems to call more plays that utilize JP as a runner and as a passer than he calls handoffs...like I said 31 carries for 86 yards..run wasn't working yet we stuck with it with Holcomb...we gave up on it with JP when it wasn't working...that took away from the offensive balance and teams were able to tee off and play the pass

Do you actually read anything posted by others, or just skip over them to say the same thing for the billionth time?

In the Saints game specifically, up until just under five minutes in the game, the Bills ran 16 plays...8 run, eight pass, in the second half. THAT'S NOT ABANDONING THE RUNNING GAME.

Look up the run/pass ratio for the first four games while JP was actually playing and still try to support the false notion that the running game was thrown out the window in favor of the pass. It can't be done, unless you choose to remain blind to the facts.

[TacklingDummy]

like I said 31 carries for 86 yards..run wasn't working yet we stuck with it with Holcomb

I may be a Dummy but I think they stuck with the run because the Bills had a commanding lead.

[YardRat]

Here...I did it for you...

Houston-36 rushes, 28 passes
Tampa-13 rushes, 28 passes (for JP only)
Atlanta-35 rushes, 23 passes
New Orleans-23 rushes, 15 passes

*107 rushes (not including Losman's runs), 94 passes (not including Holcomb's attempts)

Miami-35 rushes, 26 passes.

Total 5 games-142 rushes (not including QB's), 132 passes (including Holcomb's attempts)

Except for the Tampa game, rushing attempts far out-weighed passing attempts, and year to date it's heavy on the rush side.

How in the hell does that convey to the coaches giving up on the running game?

[TacklingDummy]

Phil, I have yet to see anyone say we give up on Losman. (exept for TDummy)

I resent that. I don't think I ever said I gave up on Losman. I have called him a Bust tho.

[YardRat]

That's beyond uncalled for...drop the personal attacks...I've rooted for the Bills no matter who's under center and I'll continue to do so til the day the Bills no longer exist

I've been playing this game just as long as you have, Phil...show me a 'personal attack' that violates your TOS.

And another unsigned neg rep....Awwwww.....I'm truly crushed :cry:

[snow1989]

I don't post much...few know me, and less even care, but I guess you can say I'm 'compelled' this time....

It's a team sport...otherwise it would be two guys running 100 yd dashes against each other with 1005-1003 score games. Granted a more experienced quarterback with a porous line will be able to do more because his 'experience' allows him quicker reads etc, but even so...he won't be nearly as effective.
JP comes from Tulane...big league school? Not so much in my book so I think he'll need time to adjust, but it doesn't make him a bust yet.
I just don't think the question is Holcombe or JP...I think its can the team adjust, limit mistakes (both sides of the ball) and does it still have the 'team chemistry' to be a winner.

[HendersonD06]

Damn, whoever made this POST deserves to be BANNED for real...

Thats just plain DUMB if you ask me... Yes, I'm a huge Jets fan... But as a FOOTBALL fan in general... This is a post IMHO, just to piss the Bills fans off because he is upset with the way the Bills have played this season.

The Bills are in the same situtation as the Jets... And any "real" fan knows this year in the AFC East, with the way the Pats have played as-well... Anything can fuc*ing happen.

The Bills have a Stellar D... IMO I would take the Jets D just for the simple fact we are younger and faster... But if you ask me... Bills have a D that can lead a team to the playoffs and maybe even the superbowl if the O can play as a team.

The Jets have Vinny at QB, who has only played 1 game this season... The Bills have Kelly at QB who has only played 1 regualr game this season...

All I know is this... Whoever wins this game this week will challange the pats the rest of the way... The team who wins will improve to .500, 3-3, and 2-0 in the AFC East... That is huge.

Now if the Bills were to lose this week and fall to 2-4, 1-1 in the AFC East... Then maybe the season is a disaster (same goes for the Jets)

But for this guy to make a post like this... Before a big game with the Jets... He should not even call himself a Bills fan... Because this was the GAYEST post I have ever read... jets or bills site... Plain nasty.

[YardRat]

Nice post, Henderson....thanks for the objective input :thumbsup:

[Dozerdog]

LOL...Mr Cynical schooled by a Jets fan! :rofl:

[ScottLawrence]

We aren't going to make the playoffs. This team is not a playoff team, regardless of the QB. JP's growth is getting stunted by not playing, so he'll have to to start over again next season. MM/TD have effectively pushed back our becoming competitive by yet another year.

NOTE: I am not guaranteeing JP is the real deal. I am guaranteeing playing KH is a postponement of finding out, which effectively postpones the team's progress. Meaning, if he is the real deal, he'll be playing well by the end of the year/start of next season. If he is not the real deal, then at least we know what we need to do in the draft/FA in the offseason. But if we don't know which he is, then we have to go through this BS all over again next year and then won't go after our franchise QB until '07.

TD is a joke and needs to go. Egotistical, stubborn, power hungry and maker of bad choices. The more seasons he fails, the more the brilliance of the 90s Steelers falls on Cowher, not TD.



We are going no where with Holcomb, but many thought we were going somewhere with Drew Bledsoe last year?

Im sick of the "career backup" talk on Holcomb.

He was a career backup because he never got his fair shot, and when he did get his chance, Butch Davis still couldn't make up his mind.

Holcomb played on a very crappy Browns team, and still put up good numbers.

Infact, his career in Cleveland is better then Bledsoes career in Buffalo.

Kelly Holcomb Cleveland stats

349/550, 63.5%, 3867 yds, 7.0 yds/att, 29 tds, 22 ints, 1.32 td/int, 19.0 att/td, 32 sck, 17.2 att/sck, 85.2 rtg.

Drew Bledsoe's Buffalo stats

905/1531, 59.1%, 10,151 yds, 6.6 yds/att, 55 tds, 43 int, 1.27 td/int, 27.8 att/td, 140 sck, 10.9 att/sck, 79.2 rtg.


I really believe this team will turn it around with Holcomb in there, not only because I think Holcomb is a good quarterback, but because the veteran players got what they wished for in turning to Holcomb, and there is now no excuses, it is time for the veterans to perform with nothing holding them back.

I think they will respond in a very positive way, and we will rally to make the playoffs.

[HendersonD06]

I would not really say schooled by a jets fan... It's just I get pissed when Jet fans do the same... Like when we lost @KC, half the posters were like... T.Law a waste of money, J.Vilma was a bust and it's now a sophmore jinx, Chad sucks, Herm needs to be hung... And bla, bla, bla... It was to the point where I got so pissed off I started saying ***** the Jets fans who say that ish... And I got banned from the GangGreen... Im glad though, for the simple fact JetsInsiders is a site with some real good Jet fans.

Everyone after that game said T.Law was a waste of money... Now them same people aint saying NOTHING! He has been a great shut-down corner... Other than some stupid PI calls, but hey... Thats how he plays.

J.Vilma being a bust? Sophmore jinx? yea ok... He leads the NFL in tackles this season... Some bust

Chad sucks? Hmmm... If anything that kid has alot of damn heart... It was clear that in the first 3 games, he was playing in pain on every down... To me, thats a player with some heart

And Herm needs to be hung? Yea... Most teams who lost @ Kc like that, lost the #1 and (#2) Qb's... Might be 0-5 right now...

Just crazy how fans have no faith.

[The_Philster]

I really believe this team will turn it around with Holcomb in there, not only because I think Holcomb is a good quarterback, but because the veteran players got what they wished for in turning to Holcomb, and there is now no excuses, it is time for the veterans to perform with nothing holding them back.
I think they will respond in a very positive way, and we will rally to make the playoffs.I hope you're right..I like Holcomb, but i just don't see it..and last week did nothing to change that opinion

[Novacane]

......................The Bills have a Stellar D............. .


I don't know why people keep saying that. Our defense has hardly been stellar through the first 5 weeks

[ScottLawrence]

I don't know why people keep saying that. Our defense has hardly been stellar through the first 5 weeks

Despite the yards allowed on the ground, forcing 4 turnovers on defense is a job well done.

[ScottLawrence]

I hope you're right..I like Holcomb, but i just don't see it..and last week did nothing to change that opinion

He was money last week.

He made the throws when we needed him to.

[Dozerdog]

I hope you're right..I like Holcomb, but i just don't see it..and last week did nothing to change that opinionHe WON!


What- he didn't win with flair? He didn't win with 300 yards?

Christ- what does it take???

[jmb1099]

The title of this thread is a season of waste, but I think maybe what we need to consider is that this season hasn't been wasted yet although I can see the potential for it to be. So far it has been a season of missed opportunities. Realistically we are now in a position that almost demands perfect football...can it be done? Perhaps, but based on what we have seen so far it isn't likely, but lets see if we can carry any of last weeks momentum into this weeks game. As far as assinging blame to any one person in football is concerned...almost impossible. Yes JP played poorly, but we also lost gmaes that could have been won because of poor running game production, lack of execution by special teams, and a less than excellent performance by our defense. Lets be real, the 2-3 record is the result of a team effort and not the poor performance of any one man. So should Hocombe be kept in? If he continues to win games than yes, if he plays poorly than lets see if JP can provide the spark thats missing from this unit. If it becomes evident that the season is a waste than keep Jp in and let him get the experience he needs. As for now the season is still wide open, and anything can happen. I may be overly optimistic, but stranger things have happened during the course of a football season...especially in Buffalo. Go Bills!

[bills_7]

Sitting for 1 to 5 games will not stunt JPs growth. It may even help him.
It was obvouis to almost everyone the kid needed to take a seat on the bench right now. If he continued to play the way he was playing it would do nothing but hurt what little confidence he had left.

yes it will.. but think what u want

[ScottLawrence]

The seasons a waste if you put Losman back in, and play for the "future".

A lot of you Bills fans are a bunch of losers.

[YardRat]

yes it will.. but think what u want

Prove it.

[Novacane]

Despite the yards allowed on the ground, forcing 4 turnovers on defense is a job well done.



OK...........so they've done a good job in 2 of 5 games then. That's not stellar defense

[finsrclowns]

LOL...Mr Cynical schooled by a Jets fan! :rofl:

:lmao:

[ScottLawrence]

OK...........so they've done a good job in 2 of 5 games then. That's not stellar defense


I didn't say it was.

You said our defense has hardley been stellar through the first 5 weeks, I thought it was stellar against Miami on sunday.

[Iehoshua]

LOL...Mr Cynical schooled by a Jets fan! :rofl:
Not even close...
:rolleyes:

[YardRat]

He WON!

What- he didn't win with flair? He didn't win with 300 yards?

Christ- what does it take???

I'm glad SOMEBODY gets it.

[BSXIII]

I know I'm listed as a Holcombmaniac, but mainly that's just because it has a nice ring to it. This fanbase, perhaps more than any other one in the NFL, likes to turn the starting QB situation into black or white issue. It's either we sacrafice the present to be great in the future, or we sacrafice the future to win now. One way will bring us to the promised land, the other will leave us in a perpetual state of Doom. The truth is, this is not a black and white issue, and both arguments miss the point of what a football team is all about. Regardless of what some may think, teams win Superbowls, not QB's.

The bottom line is, there are a lot of guys on this team that need developing. The only way for the coaching staff to do get them to work their asses off and give their all each week, is to make them believe they have a chance of winning. The idea that some QB is gonna come in and save the day shows a complete lack of football comprehension. Yes it would be nice to develop a QB, but there are 21 other positions on offense and defense that need to be developed as well. In order to keep the machine running smoothly, you need your best parts at every position. Football is a very physical sport, many role players are asked to go in week in and week out, play through pain, put their bodies on the line, all for the sake of the team. Asking these guys to do that so they can help develop the QB of the future is laughable.

If Losman is ever gonna be a good QB in this league, he needs to take it upon himself to work harder. Sure he'll take his bumps, but so far he's done more than that. During the chances he has had he has done nothing to show he belongs as a starting QB in the NFL. Other QB's have struggled out of the gate as well, but the ones who stayed in there have at least shown signs of promise. Does that mean Losman is a bust, hell no. But he's nowhere near ready yet.

The most important thing is that this team gets better each week, and gives a full blown effort. You can take any QB in the history of the NFL, and they will be lucky to win one playoff game behind this pathetic 0-line. This team has far more pressing issues than the QB position, and right now they are doing the right thing towards addressing those issues.

Again the point of the season is not to develop one player, but to develop a cohesive team that bust their balls and strive to play better each week. Once that happens, the QB situation will take care of itself.

[Mr. Cynical]

Damn, whoever made this POST deserves to be BANNED for real...

Thats just plain DUMB if you ask me... Yes, I'm a huge Jets fan... But as a FOOTBALL fan in general... This is a post IMHO, just to piss the Bills fans off because he is upset with the way the Bills have played this season.

The Bills are in the same situtation as the Jets... And any "real" fan knows this year in the AFC East, with the way the Pats have played as-well... Anything can fuc*ing happen.

The Bills have a Stellar D... IMO I would take the Jets D just for the simple fact we are younger and faster... But if you ask me... Bills have a D that can lead a team to the playoffs and maybe even the superbowl if the O can play as a team.

The Jets have Vinny at QB, who has only played 1 game this season... The Bills have Kelly at QB who has only played 1 regualr game this season...

All I know is this... Whoever wins this game this week will challange the pats the rest of the way... The team who wins will improve to .500, 3-3, and 2-0 in the AFC East... That is huge.

Now if the Bills were to lose this week and fall to 2-4, 1-1 in the AFC East... Then maybe the season is a disaster (same goes for the Jets)

But for this guy to make a post like this... Before a big game with the Jets... He should not even call himself a Bills fan... Because this was the GAYEST post I have ever read... jets or bills site... Plain nasty.

I guess you missed that class in 6th grade called "reading comprehension". You completely missed the point of this thread.

Then again, you ARE a Jets fan, so it comes with the territory. :homer:

[Mr. Cynical]

He WON!


What- he didn't win with flair? He didn't win with 300 yards?

Christ- what does it take???

Well, JP won a game as well. Sure, it was against the Texans, but then again the Texans didn't commit 5 turnovers, 18 penalties and fumble in the last minute of the game as they were driving for the winning TD.

The fish gave us that game. It wasn't because Holcomb played so much better than JP would have. I agree with Phil - the gameplan and the sloppy play had far more to do with the win.

[Mr. Cynical]

Agreed. A good team going against a visiting team that commits 18 penalties, gives up five turnovers, and has a 17 point lead at the half shouldn't have to win the game by forcing a rookie running back to fumble during a last minute drive. A last minute drive that would have potentially given them a one point win with a touchdown, btw.

There is something very wrong with this team; either with coaching, personnel, execution, or quite possibly all three. I think whomever starts at QB this year, it will be a longshot for the Bills to make the playoffs. I hope I'm wrong.

Exactly. I just wish some people would wake up and realize this.

[juice]

I know I'm listed as a Holcombmaniac, but mainly that's just because it has a nice ring to it. This fanbase, perhaps more than any other one in the NFL, likes to turn the starting QB situation into black or white issue. It's either we sacrafice the present to be great in the future, or we sacrafice the future to win now. One way will bring us to the promised land, the other will leave us in a perpetual state of Doom. The truth is, this is not a black and white issue, and both arguments miss the point of what a football team is all about. Regardless of what some may think, teams win Superbowls, not QB's.

The bottom line is, there are a lot of guys on this team that need developing. The only way for the coaching staff to do get them to work their asses off and give their all each week, is to make them believe they have a chance of winning. The idea that some QB is gonna come in and save the day shows a complete lack of football comprehension. Yes it would be nice to develop a QB, but there are 21 other positions on offense and defense that need to be developed as well. In order to keep the machine running smoothly, you need your best parts at every position. Football is a very physical sport, many role players are asked to go in week in and week out, play through pain, put their bodies on the line, all for the sake of the team. Asking these guys to do that so they can help develop the QB of the future is laughable.

If Losman is ever gonna be a good QB in this league, he needs to take it upon himself to work harder. Sure he'll take his bumps, but so far he's done more than that. During the chances he has had he has done nothing to show he belongs as a starting QB in the NFL. Other QB's have struggled out of the gate as well, but the ones who stayed in there have at least shown signs of promise. Does that mean Losman is a bust, hell no. But he's nowhere near ready yet.

The most important thing is that this team gets better each week, and gives a full blown effort. You can take any QB in the history of the NFL, and they will be lucky to win one playoff game behind this pathetic 0-line. This team has far more pressing issues than the QB position, and right now they are doing the right thing towards addressing those issues.

Again the point of the season is not to develop one player, but to develop a cohesive team that bust their balls and strive to play better each week. Once that happens, the QB situation will take care of itself.:rockon:

[Mr. Cynical]

I'ts the Chicken Little Syndroome- the sky is always falling!

What is such the rush? Are you dying of cancer or something? Only 1-2 seasons left to live?

What is the big hurry in getting JP in there?

Newsflash: We are 28-41 in the last 5 seasons and have missed the playoffs every year since 1999. We haven't won a playoff game since 1995.

The sky isn't falling. It fell a long time ago. Wake up.


We won with Holcombe under center- Only if Mr Cynical could see that :shakeno:

We won with JP under center as well. Too bad you and others are ready to bench him after 3 bad games, 2 of which were against dominant teams.

What's the rush? I guess there is none if you are satisfied with another season with no hope of getting to or winning the SB. Delaying JP's growth only postpones us from finding out if he can do it, and if he can't, we're back to sqaure one again. Except we've lost a year finding it out.

[BSXIII]

What's the rush? I guess there is none if you are satisfied with another season with no hope of getting to or winning the SB. Delaying JP's growth only postpones us from finding out if he can do it, and if he can't, we're back to sqaure one again. Except we've lost a year finding it out.

The point is, which you have stated yourself, this team has far more concerns than just QB play. Losman will not be effective behind this team as it is. He has already shown that. The first step in improving this team is to get the offense to come together as a team. They showed signs of that last year, but have taken a step back this.

Right now, this team is in damage control. The coaching staff is on the verge of losing the team. What they need to do is put every player on the roster in the best position to succeed right now. That's the first step. Let them work their asses off, and get some confidence. Hopefully develop an o-line. Then next year, if Losman looks ready he will be brought into a much better situation.

There is more to football than just the QB.

[Mr. Cynical]

The point is, which you have stated yourself, this team has far more concerns than just QB play.

Agreed.


Losman will not be effective behind this team as it is. He has already shown that.

Disagree. 1 game he showed he could, 3 games he struggled, 2 of which were against dominant teams. IMO Holcomb would have struggled just the same.


The first step in improving this team is to get the offense to come together as a team. They showed signs of that last year, but have taken a step back this.

Agreed.


Right now, this team is in damage control. The coaching staff is on the verge of losing the team. What they need to do is put every player on the roster in the best position to succeed right now. That's the first step. Let them work their asses off, and get some confidence. Hopefully develop an o-line.

Agreed, although the reason is because TD/MM are the root of all the problems.


Then next year, if Losman looks ready he will be brought into a much better situation.

The problem with this is the words "looks ready". He "looked ready" this year but when faced with tough teams he struggled. So, if he doesn't play this year, how will they know if he "is ready" next year? He will be judged on the same criteria as this year, e.g., camp and preseason. That's not enough. He needs be in regular season games for the truth to be known if he is ready.


There is more to football than just the QB.

Agreed. But at the same time, why spend all those picks on a QB if he isn't the most important position on the team? Granted there are examples of teams who have won the SB with an average QB, but in that case the team has to be even more special. I mean, how many defenses are like the 2000 Ravens? Not too many. Traditionally you want to build around your triplets (QB/RB/WR) and we seem to have 2/3 of that at the moment.

If we don't play JP and find out if he is the remaining 3rd, then we're wasting time IMO. We've sucked for long enough and I don't want to be looking for another QB in '07 if JP plays in '06 and bombs. Better he fail in '05 so we can look in '06.

[BSXIII]

Alright, Mr. Cynical fair enough. We don't strongly disagree on any points (although that will quickly change with my next point :whistling). Let's say Losman does develop into a Pro Bowl Calibre QB. Is there a chance that with this offense, and coaching staff he'll still look like a run of the mill QB? I mean, our last QB looked pretty good before he came and even better after he left. Putting all biases aside, is it maybe a better idea to concentrate on the rest of the team before worrying about the QB? If you look around the league, all the top teams have good o-lines. I can't find many cases of QB's succeeding behind bad ones. Today's pass rushers are fast, even Vick is frequently sacked, and as we saw last week, Atlanta has a pretty damn good OL. They gave Schaub time to throw while facing a great defense. Maybe as a unit, the O-line is more important than the QB, and should be given top priority.... Just a thought.

[Mr. Cynical]

Alright, Mr. Cynical fair enough. We don't strongly disagree on any points (although that will quickly change with my next point :whistling). Let's say Losman does develop into a Pro Bowl Calibre QB. Is there a chance that with this offense, and coaching staff he'll still look like a run of the mill QB? I mean, our last QB looked pretty good before he came and even better after he left. Putting all biases aside, is it maybe a better idea to concentrate on the rest of the team before worrying about the QB? If you look around the league, all the top teams have good o-lines. I can't find many cases of QB's succeeding behind bad ones. Today's pass rushers are fast, even Vick is frequently sacked, and as we saw last week, Atlanta has a pretty damn good OL. They gave Schaub time to throw while facing a great defense. Maybe as a unit, the O-line is more important than the QB, and should be given top priority.... Just a thought.

Actually I agree with your other point, except for Drew (big surprise, I know). All biases aside, he was cut by NE because he wasn't the answer and he will be cut from Dallas soon enough IMO.

But your point about the oline is exactly right. If you build a great oline, you can make a solid yet un-special QB look great. (I think Aikman is a great example of this but I know there will be plenty of people that will disagree)

That said, TD already bet the farm on JP. If he hadn't made that pick, we'd be in a different situation. He could have picked more olinemen, or got them via FAcy. Then we could try it with KH until next year and then draft a franchise QB.

But we are where we are....we have a 2 year old #1 pick in JP and in this day and age we can't wait 3-4 years to get him playing. His contract will be up, and if he is any good, there is a good chance he'll get traded or at least franchised, which is not good for the team. You really have to find out the deal sooner than later.

[BSXIII]

Actually I agree with your other point, except for Drew (big surprise, I know). All biases aside, he was cut by NE because he wasn't the answer and he will be cut from Dallas soon enough IMO.

But your point about the oline is exactly right. If you build a great oline, you can make a solid yet un-special QB look great. (I think Aikman is a great example of this but I know there will be plenty of people that will disagree)

That said, TD already bet the farm on JP. If he hadn't made that pick, we'd be in a different situation. He could have picked more olinemen, or got them via FAcy. Then we could try it with KH until next year and then draft a franchise QB.

But we are where we are....we have a 2 year old #1 pick in JP and in this day and age we can't wait 3-4 years to get him playing. His contract will be up, and if he is any good, there is a good chance he'll get traded or at least franchised, which is not good for the team. You really have to find out the deal sooner than later.

I still agree on 3 out of 4. (Of course the said QB was traded for a 1st round draft pick and is doing quite well now, but it's all water under the bridge).

As for Losman starting sooner than later, I'm not sure that's such a good idea at this point in time. As I don't think we can judge him with the current situation. Plenty of QB's were the most talented QB's in college, yet did nothing in the NFL. How much was their fault and how much was the situation they were put into is an argument that could go on forever.

Yes, it is inevitable we will need to see what Losman has at some point. Yet, it is also inevitable that we will need to see how this o-line gels. Losman will still get playing time next year regardless. Let's see how the rest of the guys come toegether as a team in the present situation, when given "the best chance to succeed" as determined by our front office.

Anyhow, I'm sick and about to pass out. Goodnight.

[Historian]

*107 rushes (not including Losman's runs), 94 passes (not including Holcomb's attempts)


How in the hell does that convey to the coaches giving up on the running game?

For a rookie QB, it should be a clear 2-1 run to pass ratio.

I keep going back to 1973. Fergy had 939 yards passing. (Shaw had 300) That's roughly 1200 yards via pass, with 3088 yards via the rush. Almost a 3-1 ratio.

The following year Fergy was much better, throwing for over 1500, and by '75, was a demon, passing for over 2400 yards.

Sorry, but the Coaches haven't put Losman in a position to be successful. I'm still waiting for this "power running game" we've been promised.

[Meathead]

For those of you following along at home, the correct answer is "B", Holcomb.

Well that does it for today. Thanks for tuning in and thanks for playing!

Buh-bye now.

[YardRat]

For a rookie QB, it should be a clear 2-1 run to pass ratio.

I keep going back to 1973. Fergy had 939 yards passing. (Shaw had 300) That's roughly 1200 yards via pass, with 3088 yards via the rush. Almost a 3-1 ratio.

The following year Fergy was much better, throwing for over 1500, and by '75, was a demon, passing for over 2400 yards.

Sorry, but the Coaches haven't put Losman in a position to be successful. I'm still waiting for this "power running game" we've been promised.

Pittsburgh was pretty close to that last year, 63% to 37%, and it worked for them.

One major difference...Losman isn't a rookie. He's had two training camps, and some, albiet minimal, exposure to the game in mop-up duty last year.

Neither Fergy or Big Ben had the luxury of being with the team, learning the game plan, practicing, previous exposure under game conditions, etc.

A note about Fergy, and the answer will be purely speculation...he had all the physical tools but never mastered fully the mental side of the game. Do you think throwing him into the fray immediately helped his development or hindered it? Could Fergy had been a better and more complete QB if he was given a year, maybe two, sitting behind a veteran?

[YardRat]

Oh...and the run/pass ratio in Fergy's era had more to do with the fact that OJ Simpson was in the backfield for the Bills, not the proper way to develop a young QB.

Saban was going to ride the Juice until he ran him into the ground, regardless of who was playing QB.

[The_Philster]

He WON!


What- he didn't win with flair? He didn't win with 300 yards?

Christ- what does it take???
The Fish lost more than we won..we didn't play to win that game...the Fish simply were worse than we were..18 penalties..5 turnovers. C'mon...you don't think we'll get those kind of breaks all season, do you?

[YardRat]

The Fish lost more than we won..we didn't play to win that game...the Fish simply were worse than we were..18 penalties..5 turnovers. C'mon...you don't think we'll get those kind of breaks all season, do you?

If we do, we'll win a lot more games. Give some credit where it's due...the defense caused most of those turnovers, and Holcomb had the fins d-line jumping on his hard count.

It's not like the game was forfeited or gift-wrapped.

[The_Philster]

if we get those kind of breaks more than once or twice a season, I'll not only be amazed, we'll get to proclaim this Bills team the luckiest team in the history of the NFL

[YardRat]

"Luck is when preparation and opportunity meet."--Raymond Berry

[Historian]

Saban was going to ride the Juice until he ran him into the ground, regardless of who was playing QB.

And that has been the Historian's contention all along....that all Fergy had to do, was mostly hand off.

We have a supposed stud at RB. Let's try the same thing now, as opposed to pass first, run second. I think had they done that, JP would still be in there.

[YardRat]

Defenses are much different today than they were 30 yrs ago, Hist...you have to at least concede that point.

[Dozerdog]

Back in the early 1970's- the rules that defenses had to play with also slanted football heavilly to the rush as well.


CB's could slap your WR all over the place, the QB wasn't placed in a dress and protected by the refs, and in 1972 ( I think) - they moved the hash marks closer to the middle of the field (Aligning them with the goalposts- unlike the college hash marks) which allowed much more room for running plays. 1,000 yard rushing seasons balooned after that.

[Marino13Phins]

The Fish lost more than we won..we didn't play to win that game...the Fish simply were worse than we were..18 penalties..5 turnovers. C'mon...you don't think we'll get those kind of breaks all season, do you?


Phil is right here, we handed the game to you. Look what we did when we stopped playing like penatly whores. We drove the field on you at will (not trying to start a flame war). I mean we were about ot score the go ahead TD but you guys capitalized on our Rook, good game. But Holcomb didn't wint it for you, he didn't lose it for you though. (obviously)

[justasportsfan]

Our defense was playing pretty damn well in that stretch..McGahee was running well...special teams..tops in the league..we had a shot we are not down the stretch yet , our D could still get better, our st, and we still have a shot. If you think we had a shot at the SB w/ Drew, I have land to sell you in NO w/ a huge inground and above ground pool. :king:

[justasportsfan]

nice to have blind faith...I'll admit I pick the Bills to win every week and I pick them for the Super Bowl every preseason as well...but I guess I see more holes than the players do 5 secs left on the play clock. Bills at the 50 yd line. do you put in Sam Adams to attempt a Hailmary or do you put in the best players who can throw the ball to the endzone? What you are telling me is don't even attempt the Hailmary, what's the use...the chances are slim to make it. I'd rather have people w/ a never say die attitude than someone who gives up



designed rollouts and QB draws...I guess Clements gave JP the authoroty to audible pretty loosely, huh? ;)putting him in the pocket hasn't worked either. So what did Clements do to fix the situation? He tried a different qb and it worked and still you're complaining about that designed decision. I don't get it, we win you complain.

Interesting, it's all Clments fault now but it was never just Drew's fault. Double standard logic.

[Mr. Cynical]

If we do, we'll win a lot more games. Give some credit where it's due...the defense caused most of those turnovers, and Holcomb had the fins d-line jumping on his hard count.

It's not like the game was forfeited or gift-wrapped.

Watch JJames's video highlights of the game. 2 of those passes for INTs looked like pooch punts. They gave us that game and still almost pulled it out with a minute to go.

[THATHURMANATOR]

This season isn't a total waste. I have still got pretty hammered and had fun tailgating!!!!!

[Mr. Cynical]

This season isn't a total waste. I have still got pretty hammered and had fun tailgating!!!!!

You just proved my point...it is a season of wasted. :boozer:

:snicker:

[THATHURMANATOR]

I get it!! A play on words!

[STAMPY]

HOLCOMB will bring us to the dance

[Mr. Cynical]

Yep,

[YardRat]

Watch JJames's video highlights of the game. 2 of those passes for INTs looked like pooch punts. They gave us that game and still almost pulled it out with a minute to go.

Those two passes were still good plays by the DB's...one resulted from excellent coverage on Chambers and the other was great awareness and adjustment to where the ball was thrown.

You want a 'pooch-punt pick', check out the one Losman threw over Moulds' head against New Orleans...that's as close to a gimme as there is.

The other two, especially McGees in the end zone, were great breaks on the ball and anticipation.

I may give you the fumble recovery on the attempted punt...he just **** his pants and dropped the ball. But on all the interceptions, the DB's still had to make the play.

[Historian]

Back in the early 1970's- the rules that defenses had to play with also slanted football heavilly to the rush as well.


CB's could slap your WR all over the place, the QB wasn't placed in a dress and protected by the refs, and in 1972 ( I think) - they moved the hash marks closer to the middle of the field (Aligning them with the goalposts- unlike the college hash marks) which allowed much more room for running plays. 1,000 yard rushing seasons balooned after that.

"I've been Coaching for almost forty years. When I started, to be successful, you had to run, and stop the run....and nothing's changed." -Marv Levy, 1988 Highlight film.

[ScottLawrence]

Watch JJames's video highlights of the game. 2 of those passes for INTs looked like pooch punts. They gave us that game and still almost pulled it out with a minute to go.


Who cares?

We still won, and when the defense needed a stop, they made a play and forced a turnover.

Don't give me the excuse of penaltys either, as pointed out by Phil Simms in this article.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8960507


"Is it sloppy play? My initial answer is no. You're talking about a highly-skilled group of athletes when you're talking about the NFL. When one really skilled athlete goes against another and loses an advantage, you try to save yourself. You hold, grab, trip -- just an instinctive reaction. You're trying to find an edge, try to anticipate more -- and you jump offsides. That's what I attribute it to. A team that commits a lot of penalties, most of the time, is a team that's getting beat, and desperation becomes a factor. You do what you can to get even. It is a little sloppy, but generally speaking, it's about players try to gain an edge against extraordinary competition."

[YardRat]

Nice find, Scott :D

[Meathead]

A very wise man said the same thing earlier this week.

[Mr. Cynical]

Who cares?

We still won, and when the defense needed a stop, they made a play and forced a turnover.

Don't give me the excuse of penaltys either, as pointed out by Phil Simms in this article.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8960507

Sorry, but Simms is a moron. I put about as much value in his opinions as I do in Theismann's. Which is zero.

[Mr. Cynical]

Those two passes were still good plays by the DB's...one resulted from excellent coverage on Chambers and the other was great awareness and adjustment to where the ball was thrown.

Well I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then, because IMO they were lame duck throws that could have been intercepted by the fat, shirtless beer guy in Section 231.

[YardRat]

if we get those kind of breaks more than once or twice a season, I'll not only be amazed, we'll get to proclaim this Bills team the luckiest team in the history of the NFL

Looks like the defense 'got lucky' again today :D

[YardRat]

Sorry, but Simms is a moron. I put about as much value in his opinions as I do in Theismann's. Which is zero.

I was going to point out that Simms just commented during the NE-Denver game that the Bills made the right move by going with Holcomb.

But I guess you wouldn't give a damn, anyway :D

[Mr. Cynical]

I was going to point out that Simms just commented during the NE-Denver game that the Bills made the right move by going with Holcomb.

But I guess you wouldn't give a damn, anyway :D

Nope, I wouldn't. :up:

[Iehoshua]

Nope, I wouldn't. :up:
Neither would I. Simms is a piece of poopy. :up:

[Mr. Cynical]

Looks like the defense 'got lucky' again today :D

And the excuse for today would be.....

[Mr. Cynical]

We aren't going to make the playoffs. This team is not a playoff team, regardless of the QB. JP's growth is getting stunted by not playing, so he'll have to to start over again next season. MM/TD have effectively pushed back our becoming competitive by yet another year.

NOTE: I am not guaranteeing JP is the real deal. I am guaranteeing playing KH is a postponement of finding out, which effectively postpones the team's progress. Meaning, if he is the real deal, he'll be playing well by the end of the year/start of next season. If he is not the real deal, then at least we know what we need to do in the draft/FA in the offseason. But if we don't know which he is, then we have to go through this BS all over again next year and then won't go after our franchise QB until '07.

TD is a joke and needs to go. Egotistical, stubborn, power hungry and maker of bad choices. The more seasons he fails, the more the brilliance of the 90s Steelers falls on Cowher, not TD.

And now....

[TheBrownBear]

Get over yourself. You've obviously just been waiting for the team to lose so you could say "I told you so."

[Mr. Cynical]

Get over yourself. You've obviously just been waiting for the team to lose so you could say "I told you so."

The truth hurts. Get over it yourself.

I want this team to get better which is why I wasn't drinking the Kool Aid.

[The_Philster]

Anyone else see how well Manning played against Denver...came through in the end...that could be JP next year...if we play him :sigh:

[Mr. Cynical]

Preachin to the choir. :up: :;

[ScottLawrence]

Anyone else see how well Manning played against Denver...came through in the end...that could be JP next year...if we play him :sigh:


Why?

It isn't apparent to you that Losman is an ass hole that nobody likes?

First he goes on ESPN before the 2004 draft and makes fun of Roethlisberger.

Then in preseason, his own teammate breaks his leg.

When he does get the starting job, he calls out one of his coaches in training camp.

He goes onto the regular season, having about one good quarter in 4 games, and is even criticized by one of his former teammates in Tulane, Mewlde Moore, saying the guy was very selfish in college.

O yea.....His accuracy, and mechanics suck.


I believe Losman sucks, and will always suck.


Donahoe has really dug this team in a deep hole in very crucial positions.

[The_Philster]

Why?

It isn't apparent to you that Losman is an ass hole that nobody likes?.nope...because you're not everybody ...and the fact that you have to name call ruins any point you may be trying to make anyway

[ScottLawrence]

nope...because you're not everybody ...and the fact that you have to name call ruins any point you may be trying to make anyway


Im not name calling.

Thats what he is.


Maybe a dick is a better word.

[The_Philster]

Im not name calling.

Thats what he is.


Maybe a dick is a better word.
he steal your girlfriend or something? :wtf:

[Mr. Cynical]

Why?

It isn't apparent to you that Losman is an ass hole that nobody likes?

First he goes on ESPN before the 2004 draft and makes fun of Roethlisberger.

Then in preseason, his own teammate breaks his leg.

When he does get the starting job, he calls out one of his coaches in training camp.

He goes onto the regular season, having about one good quarter in 4 games, and is even criticized by one of his former teammates in Tulane, Mewlde Moore, saying the guy was very selfish in college.

O yea.....His accuracy, and mechanics suck.


I believe Losman sucks, and will always suck.


Donahoe has really dug this team in a deep hole in very crucial positions.

So what's your solution? If you want TD gone, and you think JP is guaranteed bust, then you should WANT him to play. As I've said many times before, the fate of TD = the fate of JP. So using your "opinion" of JP, you should be rooting for him to play.

[TacklingDummy]

Anyone else see how well Manning played against Denver...came through in the end...that could be JP next year...if we play him :sigh:


No it WON'T be JP next year.

JP is a bust and the sooner some of you fans figure that out the sooner the Bills can move on and get their next good QB.

[The_Philster]

No it WON'T be JP next year.

JP is a bust and the sooner some of you fans figure that out the sooner the Bills can move on and get their next good QB.
So which NFL team do you work for since you know so much more than everyone else on Earth about QBing? :rolleyes:

[ScottLawrence]

So what's your solution? If you want TD gone, and you think JP is guaranteed bust, then you should WANT him to play. As I've said many times before, the fate of TD = the fate of JP. So using your "opinion" of JP, you should be rooting for him to play.


So rooting to lose?

Thats what I should be rooting for?

Sorry, im not a loser.


I want the best players out on the field, that gives us the best chance to win.

Losman is the 3rd best quarterback on this team, he should remain on the bench.

I want Donahoe gone, because he lets his ego get in the way of everything.(From the coaching staff, right down to the players.)

[TacklingDummy]

So which NFL team do you work for since you know so much more than everyone else on Earth about QBing? :rolleyes:

And which one do you? Since you like to compare him to a Manning.

[The_Philster]

And which one do you? Since you like to compare him to a Manning.
Again, I've never done that...please stop putting words in my mouth...dishonesty is a sickness in your case

[TacklingDummy]

Anyone else see how well Manning played against Denver...came through in the end...that could be JP next year...if we play him :sigh:

Nope no Manning comparison there.

[Mr. Cynical]

So rooting to lose?

Thats what I should be rooting for?

Sorry, im not a loser.


I want the best players out on the field, that gives us the best chance to win.

Losman is the 3rd best quarterback on this team, he should remain on the bench.

I want Donahoe gone, because he lets his ego get in the way of everything.(From the coaching staff, right down to the players.)

I hope you realize it doesn't matter who is at QB as it pertains to this team winning.....or should I say losing. This team is not good in many, many ways, from the coaching on down.

You have to understand...if JP doesn't play this year, he WILL play next year. TD is not going to let a guy he traded #1, #2, and #5 for ride the bench 3 years in a row. Not gonna happen. So, do you want "JP the Bust" (as you put it) ruining next season?

[Mr. Cynical]

Nope no Manning comparison there.

He said "could". That is different "will".

[TacklingDummy]

He said "could". That is different "will".

"could' be like Eli.

That's not a comparison?

[Mr. Cynical]

"could' be like Eli.

That's not a comparison?

It's a hypothetical assessment. He isn't saying JP is like Eli, or will be like Eli, or even will probably be like Eli. By saying "could", he is just saying there is a possibility and we won't know if he doesn't play.

[The_Philster]

It's a hypothetical assessment. He isn't saying JP is like Eli, or will be like Eli, or even will probably be like Eli. By saying "could", he is just saying there is a possibility and we won't know if he doesn't play.
you're making sense..stop it...you'll confuse the trolls ;)

[ScottLawrence]

It's a hypothetical assessment. He isn't saying JP is like Eli, or will be like Eli, or even will probably be like Eli. By saying "could", he is just saying there is a possibility and we won't know if he doesn't play.


We saw him play, and he was terrible outside of a quarter against the worst football team in the league.



He was gunshy, VERY innaccurate, his mechanics suck, and his teammates ran him out of the starting job.


Things will only get much worse if we start Losman.

[Novacane]

Hows it gonna get worse playing Losman? We're gonna lose anyway with our lack of defense. Get him in there so we can find out if he's a bust. Sensible people don't decide that after 4 games

[Mr. Cynical]

We saw him play, and he was terrible outside of a quarter against the worst football team in the league.

He was gunshy, VERY innaccurate, his mechanics suck, and his teammates ran him out of the starting job.

Things will only get much worse if we start Losman.

Record under JP: 1-3 (1 win against a losing team, 2 losses against winning teams and 1 loss against a losing team)

Record under KH: 2-1 (2 wins against losing teams, and a loss against a losing team)

My point? It doesn't matter which QB is behind center at this point. Both QBs led the team to victory over losing teams. Both QBs led the team to defeat against losing teams.

In NO case did we beat a winning team (per today), regardless of the QB.

Once again, this is not a good team. It is a perfect time to see what JP can do. 4 games is not enough to see anything.

[YardRat]

I'm sticking to the strategy of keeping Holcomb in until the bye week, then re-assessing for the rest of the year.

And as far as your guys' pissing match over Losman and whether he's a dick or not really has nothing to do with how he performs on the field...Bruce Smith was a dick at times, and so was Jim Kelly...so what?

[Mr. Cynical]

I'm sticking to the strategy of keeping Holcomb in until the bye week, then re-assessing for the rest of the year.

That's fine. One more loss isn't going to make a difference in JP's curve at this point. I would have had him in the whole year, but if he starts the rest of the year after the bye I'll be okay with it.

[Novacane]

That's fine. One more loss isn't going to make a difference in JP's curve at this point. I would have had him in the whole year, but if he starts the rest of the year after the bye I'll be okay with it.


I was pissed at first but as long as he gets back in after the bye I'm glad they sat JP for these games. The arrogant vets needed to see that they need to look in the mirror and stop blaming the QB.

[Mr. Cynical]

I was pissed at first but as long as he gets back in after the bye I'm glad they sat JP for these games. The arrogant vets needed to see that they need to look in the mirror and stop blaming the QB.

True, and it also gave everyone a chance to realize playing KH isn't going to "save the season". The team has too many holes for one person to fill.

[TacklingDummy]

True, and it also gave everyone a chance to realize playing KH isn't going to "save the season". The team has too many holes for one person to fill.

True. But KH filled the QB hole.

Now if only the Bills could get someone who could stop the run, like 6 weeks ago.

[Novacane]

True. But KH filled the QB hole.
Now if only the Bills could get someone who could stop the run, like 6 weeks ago.



but that ain't gonna happen this year. Thats why JP should start the last 8 games so everyone can see that you are right about him ;)

[TacklingDummy]

but that ain't gonna happen this year. Thats why JP should start the last 8 games so everyone can see that you are right about him ;)


True, and that's why I said when they named KH starter that I rather have JP start so the Bills can go and get themselves a real QB this off-season.

[Mr. Cynical]

True, and that's why I said when they named KH starter that I rather have JP start so the Bills can go and get themselves a real QB this off-season.

4 games.

[Mr. Cynical]

We aren't going to make the playoffs. This team is not a playoff team, regardless of the QB. JP's growth is getting stunted by not playing, so he'll have to to start over again next season. MM/TD have effectively pushed back our becoming competitive by yet another year.

NOTE: I am not guaranteeing JP is the real deal. I am guaranteeing playing KH is a postponement of finding out, which effectively postpones the team's progress. Meaning, if he is the real deal, he'll be playing well by the end of the year/start of next season. If he is not the real deal, then at least we know what we need to do in the draft/FA in the offseason. But if we don't know which he is, then we have to go through this BS all over again next year and then won't go after our franchise QB until '07.

TD is a joke and needs to go. Egotistical, stubborn, power hungry and maker of bad choices. The more seasons he fails, the more the brilliance of the 90s Steelers falls on Cowher, not TD.

Anyone still disagree?

[Mr. Cynical]

To reflect upon before the year is over.... :sigh:

[BleedinGreenNC]

At least you guys have a glimmer of hope at your QB position, we have a noodle armed QB, another that played with jesus, and another that buckles under pressure, and should be playing in high school. Don't get me wrong, i know my team blows, but i will still root for them all the way!!

[The_Philster]

At least you guys have a glimmer of hope at your QB position, we have a noodle armed QB, another that played with jesus, and another that buckles under pressure, and should be playing in high school. Don't get me wrong, i know my team blows, but i will still root for them all the way!!
did you say something? was looking at the right part of your sig..




seriously, you don't like Pennington?

[Mr. Cynical]

did you say something? was looking at the right part of your sig..

:drool: