F**ked Thread:'06 WO WM/NC [Archive] - BillsZone.com

View Full Version : F**ked Thread:'06 WO WM/NC

juice

10-15-2005, 04:06 PM

Forked from: I'm calling for TD's head after this season... (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showpost.php?postid=1203440)

What if this team gets a wildcard or wins the East, which it's a possibility that we could be in 1st place outright if we win Sunday and the Pats lose to the Broncs.. will Bills fans still want TD gone?

Clements is as good as gone W/O TD as GM and Willis' contract will have to be redone.. TD with a Playoff birth might be the only one who can re-sign NC & WM since he's the one that drafted them both.

How will JPL look in '06 as starter W/O Willis and Moulds on offense and no Clements shutting down a 3rd of the field on defense.

Are Bills fans sure that they want TD gone after this season, that will make Nate and Willis much more difficult to sign and if KH can't pick it up in the passing game and get EMo 1000-1200 yds he'll be a cap cut as well, EM and WM are probably 50% of the offenses production.

We might have to sacrifice EMo in order to have a shot at keeping NC, it would be easier to replace EM's production on offense than WM's and NC on defense.. be carefull what you ask for because TKO won't be 100% next year if ever and this "D" isn't as solid as once thought W/O big Pat in the middle with Sam.

Can you imagine having the 30 ranked defense WO Nate next year and the 30 ranked offense WO Willis, Emo and with JPL starting.

Marvelous

10-15-2005, 08:29 PM

juice

10-15-2005, 10:07 PM

-Moulds will restructure or extend if he wants to retire a Buffalo Bill...
-We need NC to stay priority #1. Even more so since Spikes will never be 100% of what he was. IMO we build the whole defense around NC for years to come.. Fletch,Milloy,Adams, and Vincent are all over 30...

-I don't get all the TD flaming/hate. He does a excellent job imo. He hasn't been able to hit on a QB yet. IMO that's the hardest position to fill.....

-I expect TD to have a awesome draft next year with the extra Titans pick and comp for PigPat & Jennings..I don't think Moulds will want to remain with the Bills after his experience with the future of the Bills in JP, Moulds wants to go where he will be in a position to either win a SB or be in a system that he can be with a QB who can get him the ball and showcase the ability he has left. oulds often comments on how WR like M. Harrison have had that consistancy at QB and how that has kept his #s down.

I expect Nate to look for a huge payday with a contender as well, only being 25-26 yrs old his value will never be higher than at this season's end and the perfect time to go to team that is a CB away from getting to the SB.. with the Bills questions at QB next year he could return to the Bills and suffer through another 6-10 season.. that is a major reason you don't just write this season off as a learning experience for JP - you have to play to win for the players you have now and not the future.

TD has neglected both the OL and DL during his time here in B'lo and will find it hard to shake the effects of the Bledsoe situation.. he did an excellent job with the salary cap but has failed to win games and make the Playoffs.

The reason the QB position has been so hard to fill is because just like this year the O-Line has failed to protect the QB with DB and now JP.. the development of JPL has been effected in large part by the protection that he has to rely on.

Turf

10-15-2005, 10:11 PM

jamze132

10-16-2005, 12:12 AM

I really think that the O-line is the most important unit on a profesional football team. There is an old saying about team work... "Your only as strong as your weakest man". The offense goes where the O-line takes them. I don't think that Donahoe has given 100% to the line we currently have. But it is what it is and we are stuck with what we have. I do have faith in McNally's ability to coach the line. But how much freedom does he have with who is on the roster? You can't teach a turd to smell good. (I am not implying that we have turds on the O-line!) I just find it hard to believe that McNally has full autonomy as to who the Bills hire and fire.

LifetimeBillsFan

10-16-2005, 03:49 AM

I disagree with those who keep saying that TD has not addressed the offensive line in the draft since he has been here--the evidence simply does not support that contention.

Since his arrival, he has spent two first day picks on offensive linemen: a first and third rounder, that netting Jennings and M.Williams. He had spent even more second day picks on offensive linemen: two fourth rounders on Preston and Sullivan (who many had rated as a first day pick) and later picks on developmental projects McFarland and Geissinger. Prior to this year, when the Pats used their 1st rounder on Mankins, he had spent more and higher draft choices on offensive linemen than the Patriots or Jets had during his tenure.

Now, you can argue that the Bills have done a bad job of picking offensive linemen--that Williams has been a bust; that Jennings never became more than a mediocre LT; that Sullivan shouldn't have been picked at all; that McFarland and Geissinger will never amount to anything, etc. And, you may be right. But, then, the blame goes onto the scouts and/or the coaching staff. Although, I will argue that Williams has developed into a pretty good RT since McNally arrived and is only considered a bust because he is making LT money to play RT--B.McKinnie, considered the only real offensive line alternative to Williams at that spot in that draft, may be a LT, but he not only held out for half his rookie season to get more money, but hasn't exactly set the world on fire in Minny, either. Preston has shown some real potential thus far and everyone knew that Peters, McFarland and Geissinger were projects who would take time to develop.

Those who argue that the Bills should have drafted other players for the offensive line higher in the draft are basically ignoring the way that most of the players that they would have had the Bills draft have performed since coming into the league. With the exception of Jake Grove and Logan Mankins, hardly any of the offensive linemen that the BZ "draft gurus" wanted the Bills to draft have even performed halfway decently--Carey has been a bust for Miami, Munoz, Incognito and Wilkerson didn't even make it out of preseason, Barnes has struggled, and Terry is buried on the bench/practice squad, etc.--and neither Grove or Mankins were available for the Bills to pick (in Grove's case because the Bills drafted Evans and Losman) in the round they were projected to be drafted in. They also ignore the fact that a lot of offensive linemen taken with first and second round draft pick end up being at best mediocre. For every Damien Woody, Matt Light and Joe Andruzzi, there is a Jason Fabini or Vernon Carey. Even drafting a "can't miss" offensive lineman in the top 10 of the draft does not guarantee that you will get an All-Pro as evidenced by Williams, McKinnie and Robert Gallery.

If you want to slam TD for the free agent offensive linemen that he has signed, I won't argue, although here there are often things that go on behind the scenes that fans may not be aware of (as in the Verba situation). Teague has developed into a decent center--no Kevin Mawae, but decent--but was signed to play LT and is getting more money than he should. Everyone knows that Preston was drafted to replace him. C.Villarial has been a more than suitable replacement for over-paid Rueben Brown (another O-lineman drafted in the 1st Round by the Bills, but before TD arrived). The jury is still out on Gandy and Anderson--with the way McNally coaches, you have to give them a full year in his system before you can make any judgements. Yes, you can argue that there were other guys that the Bills could have signed in their stead and that TD has not spent enough on offensive linemen, but not all of the guys he might have signed have been all that much better than the ones that he did: for example, K.Vincent hasn't been very good for Arizona, which can't run the ball at all, this year, Stinchcomb is injured again and R.DeMulling has been a major disappointment for Detroit thus far.

Top flight offensive linemen don't fall out of trees and there is a reason why they are paid a ton of money. Some teams choose to spend a lot of money on the offensive line: KC, Chicago and New Orleans for example. But, the money that they spend on the O-line can't be spent elsewhere--neither KC or Chicago have more than one decent WR; KC and New Orleans have awful defenses. Most of the contending teams in the league have only a couple of reasonably high draft picks on their offensive line and have filled in around them with cheap free agents, UDFAs and projects taken in the lower rounds that they have developed: Indy doesn't spend money on guards, New England has guys like Ashworth, etc. starting, SD got lucky with a couple of low round draft picks last year like Olivea and Fonoti, etc. How many guys can you name from the Denver or Atlanta offensive lines and how many were drafted on the first day of the draft?

You can argue that TD has ignored the offensive line, but, in doing so, you are ignoring the fact that he is obviously trying to follow a pattern that has been successful for some of the best teams in the NFL. Those who are upset that he didn't use a first day draft pick on an offensive lineman this year are ignoring the fact that Mankins and the other offensive lineman that the Bills had targeted (I can't remember his name!), were both taken before the Bills took Roscoe Parrish--who has shown that he could be a valuable player for the Bills in the future. Those who argue that TD has not picked well may have a point, but fail to consider that this is only McNally's second year in Buffalo, that the Bills top two offensive linemen have missed playing time, and that McNally's offensive lines traditionally develop in a particular way that is evident in the progress of this group (you can say Jerman stinks and I won't argue with that, but he was never intended to be a starter!).

I have been watching McNally-coached offensive lines since he first joined the New York Giants. Every year his lines seem to follow the same pattern: for the first third of the season they are reasonably good at either run-blocking or pass-blocking and stink in the other area; in the second third of the season they begin to play decently in both areas, but still are a tad better in the one they started out being reasonable in; in the last third of the season they become pretty good in all phases and finish strong. That is exactly what happened last year with the Bills' offensive line. And, even with the offensive line he had with the Giants that went to the SB--a line that featured a 38 year old Lomas Brown, Bills-castoff Dusty Ziegler, street free agents Rich Seubert and Dave Diehl, and a couple of still-raw draft picks in Scott Gragg, Mike Rosenthal and Luke Petitgout--not exactly an All-Star cast, began the same way: just ask Tiki Barber who got killed every time he ran with the ball at the beginning of that season! Those are the kinds of offensive lines that McNally always has and that Bills fans should expect the Bills to have as long as he is their offensive line coach. Now you can blame TD for hiring McNally and listening to him on draft day (according to a draft day report, TD took Geissinger over DT A.Hawthorne--who is out of football BTW--based on McNally's advice), but McNally is considered one of the top O-line coaches in the NFL and why wouldn't the GM listen to him?

With T.Teague likely to be gone next year and a top group of offensive linemen coming out in the draft, I would expect TD, if he is still with the Bills, to try to take a LT on the first day, even though the Bills are publicly saying that they believe J.Peters will develop into a starting LT for them now. As in college, Peters' development as a LT has been stunted by his athleticism and the fact that the coaches have continued to use him at TE because of the injuries that they have had there. However, his athleticism is precisely what makes them believe he can be a starting LT in the NFL.

You may not like the Bills' offensive line and how TD has gone about putting it together, but, contrary to what many believe, TD has not been ignoring the offensive line any more than some of the best teams in the NFL, he is following the same pattern of assembling an offensive line that they have been following. And, the Bills' offensive line is developing in the same manner that it did last year and that McNally-coached lines always do. I won't tell you that the Bills' offensive line has been good this year or that G.Jerman doesn't stink--those are obvious facts!--but compare their performance to that of the other teams in the AFC East and the rest of the NFL this season. Then, ask yourself whether any of the moves that you would have wanted TD to make were realistic and if the ones that would have realistically been possible would have made this O-line that much better (keep in mind that no one has been able to sign Verba and that Verba publicly stated that he would retire rather than accept less than top LT money).

It is easy to criticize what TD has done with the offensive line if you don't take all of the facts into consideration. Could he have done a better job than he has? Possibly. But a lot of the things that Zoners have been criticising him for not doing were either not realistically possible or not just his responsibility but that of the people charged with finding offensive line talent and developing it. If you want to blame him from hiring those people, just remember that two of them, Modrak and McNally, are highly thought of around the NFL and are people that most Zoners have praised a lot.

God, I hate defending TD--because I have really mixed feelings about his performance as Bills' GM--but I really wish that people would be realistic and fair in their evaluation and criticisms of him!

YardRat

10-16-2005, 04:26 AM

Now that's an excellent post.

DynaPaul

10-16-2005, 09:29 AM

I disagree with those who keep saying that TD has not addressed the offensive line in the draft since he has been here--the evidence simply does not support that contention.

Regardless, this team has not tasted the playoffs since he's been the GM and Pittsburgh went nowhere with him as GM for 7 years. The picks he's made on the O-line haven't been great and he's botched other moves, like coaching staff, as well. He does all of this while touting himself as a genius and master poker player to the media.

In the end it's the results that matter most and though we could overlook his blunders while maintaining some success we haven't done that.