View Full Version : Still want to keep playing Holcomb?
Mr. Cynical
10-16-2005, 06:26 PM
We've won two now, so I know the answer for most people is yes.
His stats:
Miami: 20/26, 169, 1TD
Jets: 18/26, 172, 2TDs, 2INTs
IMO, I think he is an excellent caretaker but I still want to see JP to get another shot this year. KH can manage a game but at some point we're going to need something more and JP (because it is still unknown) may be able to do that. I just don't see KH pulling out anything special. He is Trent Dilfer, but our D is not the 2000 Ravens. It will be very interesting to see what happens against NE.
imbondz
10-16-2005, 06:28 PM
until he loses, it's not even a conversation IMO
Iehoshua
10-16-2005, 06:29 PM
until he loses, it's not even a conversation IMO
Agreed.
He's not losing games for us. Keep him in.
Forward_Lateral
10-16-2005, 06:29 PM
2-0 with Holcomb, 1-3 with JP. Wins are all that matters, aren't they? If Buffalo stops winning and falls out of contention, then JP will be back. I think the earliest we see JP starting again, barring an injury, is after the bye week vs KC, depending on how the next 2 games go.
Crisis
10-16-2005, 06:30 PM
The offense, as a whole, is better with Holcomb.
Whatever momentum/spark lit that we got under Holcomb will be gone and we'll be stuck with mediocrity for the rest of the year with Losman.
Cant wait to see the highlight reel bam.....that shot that milloy unleashed....WILLIS'S DANCE! :lmao:
Good game! :up:
Mr. Cynical
10-16-2005, 06:35 PM
The offense, as a whole, is better with Holcomb.
Whatever momentum/spark lit that we got under Holcomb will be gone and we'll be stuck with mediocrity for the rest of the year with Losman.
I agree with you about the spark and if it continues it is hard to argue against starting him. I just feel that spark is going to flame out against NE and then the offense will slide from that point. In addition teams will now gameplan him since they know he will start going forward. We'll see....
ParanoidAndroid
10-16-2005, 06:40 PM
I agree with you about the spark and if it continues it is hard to argue against starting him. I just feel that spark is going to flame out against NE and then the offense will slide from that point. In addition teams will now gameplan him since they know he will start going forward. We'll see....
I'm not sure the game planning will be that much different. He's running the same plays but is just more effective. :idunno:
finsrclowns
10-16-2005, 06:42 PM
He is Trent Dilfer, but our D is not the 2000 Ravens. It will be very interesting to see what happens against NE.
Dilfer is on pace for close to 4000 yards with a QB rating around 90. I think Baltimore was wrong to dump him because they didn't like "how" they won the SB. They've maintained the D, but the parade of bums that have tried to take his place have all failed. Like it or not (not!) Holcomb has given our whole team a spark.
Mr. Cynical
10-16-2005, 06:45 PM
Like it or not (not!) Holcomb has given our whole team a spark.
As a BILLS fan, I like it. We won.
I just want to make sure you are still around if he starts to show why he has been a career backup in this league.
Crisis
10-16-2005, 06:46 PM
Also, this year the Pats are FAR from the invincible team they were of the past.
If we keep winning, the division is ours for the taking. All the teams in the East are having huge problems with injuries (or in the Dolphins case they just suck. :lolpoint:)
I'll be here either way. You know that!
:rockout:
YardRat
10-16-2005, 06:49 PM
Holcomb did make a couple of bad throws today...especially the pick that was returned to the one.
The throw to Campbell was pure beauty, though, and over the last two games he's completed balls that never would have even left Losman's hand.
The next two weeks are going to be tough, but at least we aren't losing at home to teams we should beat (see Atlanta).
Iehoshua
10-16-2005, 06:52 PM
Holcomb did make a couple of bad throws today...especially the pick that was returned to the one.
The throw to Campbell was pure beauty, though, and over the last two games he's completed balls that never would have even left Losman's hand.
The next two weeks are going to be tough, but at least we aren't losing at home to teams we should beat (see Atlanta).
He made some bad throws but did make a few sweet completions, the Campbell one was a good example.
Philagape
10-16-2005, 06:55 PM
Keep him in for now.
colin
10-16-2005, 06:59 PM
holcomb only made 3 or 4 bad throws, it's just that 2 of them were for picks, both resulting in a TD (although the 91 yard drive was on the D).
with our starters in, our pass blocking is OK, and our run blocking is great.
our O can play, couldn't say that with JP in
buffalofan19
10-16-2005, 07:02 PM
Right now, the Bills are tied for first place in the division, and he was a big reason why they got there. You can't take him out now.
ScottLawrence
10-16-2005, 07:05 PM
The team obviously plays better with Holcomb in there.
This is a very dumb post.
Novacane
10-16-2005, 07:08 PM
I'd keep him in as long as were winning.
Mr. Cynical
10-16-2005, 07:10 PM
I hear everyone. I'll keep this thread bookmarked for future reference. Hopefully I won't need to bring it back except to say "you were right".
capitolneal
10-16-2005, 07:10 PM
He seems to manage the game better I will support whoever the Bills throw in there.... I just think Kelly has the pulse of the team and keeps us in third and managable
capitolneal
10-16-2005, 07:10 PM
He seems to manage the game better I will support whoever the Bills throw in there.... I just think Kelly has the pulse of the team and keeps us in third and managable
Mr. Cynical
10-16-2005, 07:16 PM
You bet your ass.
Too risky. I never bet body parts. Pooping would be infinitely harder to do if I lost. :;
finsrclowns
10-16-2005, 07:18 PM
As a BILLS fan, I like it. We won.
I just want to make sure you are still around if he starts to show why he has been a career backup in this league.
I will. There is no doubt in my mind we're 1-5 right now if Losman is still in there. So IMO it's already been worth it. You can have all the 5 year rebuilding plans you want.
Ngxtreme13
10-16-2005, 07:31 PM
if any of you listened to the postgame radio show coach mularky said he is starting holcomb next week vs raiders
Mr. Cynical
10-16-2005, 08:08 PM
You can have all the 5 year rebuilding plans you want.
Well it's been 10 years since we've won a playoff game and 5 years without the playoffs.
IMO KH is not the answer to getting this team to the promised land, i.e., winning a SB. Anything less is a waste of time.
chernobylwraiths
10-16-2005, 08:11 PM
I still wanted to see JP finish off this season, but I just don't see them pulling Holcomb until he looks bad in a loss.
Anybody can look bad in a win. :D
Mr. Cynical
10-16-2005, 08:14 PM
I still wanted to see JP finish off this season, but I just don't see them pulling Holcomb until he looks bad in a loss.
Anybody can look bad in a win. :D
Oh, I agree...he will not be pulled even if he throws 4INTs in the game, as long as the rest of the team bails him out and they win. A win is a win.
But it's penny wise, pound foolish.
chernobylwraiths
10-16-2005, 08:18 PM
Oh, I agree...he will not be pulled even if he throws 4INTs in the game, as long as the rest of the team bails him out and they win. A win is a win.
But it's penny wise, pound foolish.
This is strange agreeing with you like this. But I have felt from the day that they released Bledsoe and annointed JP as the starter that he needed the entire season to learn the NFL. I also felt that he would be crap for some games and that we would have to suffer through it.
Oh well, it is nice to win a couple though. Hopefully they can beat some good teams too.
chernobylwraiths
10-16-2005, 08:21 PM
I will. There is no doubt in my mind we're 1-5 right now if Losman is still in there. So IMO it's already been worth it. You can have all the 5 year rebuilding plans you want.
I don't think we would be 1-5 either.
I think the only way we would have a 5 year rebuilding period is if we keep putting off developing our players for the sake of a couple more wins.
John Doe
10-16-2005, 08:37 PM
Oh, I agree...he will not be pulled even if he throws 4INTs in the game, as long as the rest of the team bails him out and they win. A win is a win.
But it's penny wise, pound foolish.
Winning is never foolish.
Mr. Cynical
10-16-2005, 09:06 PM
This is strange agreeing with you like this. But I have felt from the day that they released Bledsoe and annointed JP as the starter that he needed the entire season to learn the NFL. I also felt that he would be crap for some games and that we would have to suffer through it.
Oh well, it is nice to win a couple though. Hopefully they can beat some good teams too.
I don't think we would be 1-5 either.
I think the only way we would have a 5 year rebuilding period is if we keep putting off developing our players for the sake of a couple more wins.
:hi5:
HolyHolcomb10
10-16-2005, 09:08 PM
IM PUMPEDDDDD
YardRat
10-16-2005, 09:13 PM
I think this experience makes JP a better QB in the long run.
This is going to be the biggest chip on a Bill's shoulder since Thurman dropped to us in the second round.
Mr. Cynical
10-16-2005, 09:19 PM
I think this experience makes JP a better QB in the long run.
This is going to be the biggest chip on a Bill's shoulder since Thurman dropped to us in the second round.
Maybe...but what about this...what if we get to the playoffs this year and KH plays well? Do you sit JP another year and play KH in '06?
chernobylwraiths
10-16-2005, 09:30 PM
Maybe...but what about this...what if we get to the playoffs this year and KH plays well? Do you sit JP another year and play KH in '06?
I think that would be the plan.
I hate to say it, but I'm beginning to see how all of you people who wanted Bledsoe gone feel.
Not that I agreed with you about him, just that I understand.
Mr. Cynical
10-16-2005, 10:07 PM
I think that would be the plan.
I hate to say it, but I'm beginning to see how all of you people who wanted Bledsoe gone feel.
Not that I agreed with you about him, just that I understand.
Well, KH threw 2 INTs today but at least he didn't turn the ball over 3 times like the aforementioned Statue.
TigerJ
10-16-2005, 10:17 PM
Buffalo should continue starting Holcomb, but needs to look for opportunities to play Losman late in games when the score is not close, and then call plays as if it is close. Losman has to get some playing time or he's going to be stuck in his development. If he is to be the Bills starter next year, which I assume is the plan, he has to have some opportunity to learn on the field, or the Bills will go through much the same frustration as they did the first four games of this season.
Mr. Cynical
10-16-2005, 10:37 PM
JP has to have some opportunity to learn on the field, or the Bills will go through much the same frustration as they did the first four games of this season.
Yep. :up:
DaBills
10-16-2005, 10:46 PM
Can't argue with a win. Have no choice but to stay the course thanks to MM.
AndreReed83
10-16-2005, 10:58 PM
I think if JP was playing, the QB stats go from 2 tds and 2 ints to 0 tds and 4 ints. JP's time will definitely come, but I don't think it will be this season, at least not for a long while.
buffalofan19
10-16-2005, 11:38 PM
Well it's been 10 years since we've won a playoff game and 5 years without the playoffs.
IMO KH is not the answer to getting this team to the promised land, i.e., winning a SB. Anything less is a waste of time.
Here's why I go for the playoffs now (i.e. leave Kelly Holcomb in). One is I would like to see the Bills in a postseason game, it's been a while. Secondly, it isn't necessarily a given that if the Bills get in, they won't go far. Look at the Jets last year. They didn't even really deserve to be in the playoffs over a team like Jacksonville, Baltimore, or even Buffalo, but once they got in, good things started to happen for them. They beat the Chargers in San Diego (albeit because of Nate Kaeding more than anything else) and were really close to beating the Steelers in Pittsburgh. Look at the Panthers the year before. They were a wild card, and able to beat Philadelphia, who was the major favorite to go to the Super Bowl that year and take New England, who no one seemed to be able to even come close to, down to the wire.
My point is, once you get in, anything can happen. That's why you always go for the playoffs now if it seems at all feasible. Given the situation that AFC East is in (hell, Buffalo is tied for first place), IMO, it is feasible. Therefore you go with your best chance to win, and that is Kelly Holcomb. I see the point about developing Losman, but I can't agree with it as long as this team has any possibility for the playoffs whatsoever. If the Bills were like Cincinnati last year, or Indianapolis in Peyton Manning's rookie year, where that team wasn't going to go too far no matter what they did, I would say go for it. However, the Bills have a lot better chance at the postseason than those teams did. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, Kelly Holcomb should be the man.
Meathead
10-17-2005, 04:02 AM
except to say "you were right".
why procrastinate
TacklingDummy
10-17-2005, 06:02 AM
As a BILLS fan, I like it. We won.
I just want to make sure you are still around if he starts to show why he has been a career backup in this league.
Yeah, and then JP can show you why he was benched for a career backup.
If the Bills had an open competition durning pre-season and not just give JP the starting job the Bills could easily be 6-0 to 5-1 right now.
Mr. Cynical
10-17-2005, 11:21 AM
JP's time will definitely come, but I don't think it will be this season, at least not for a long while.
If that's the case, then IMO we aren't an SB contender for a long while. It's either JP or someone else. It's not KH.
Mr. Cynical
10-17-2005, 11:23 AM
Yeah, and then JP can show you why he was benched for a career backup.
Yup. And then I suppose TD can show you why he is still the GM of a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 5 years. Pass the Kool-Aid. It's tasty I've heard.
Mr. Cynical
10-17-2005, 11:27 AM
Here's why I go for the playoffs now (i.e. leave Kelly Holcomb in). One is I would like to see the Bills in a postseason game, it's been a while. Secondly, it isn't necessarily a given that if the Bills get in, they won't go far. Look at the Jets last year. They didn't even really deserve to be in the playoffs over a team like Jacksonville, Baltimore, or even Buffalo, but once they got in, good things started to happen for them. They beat the Chargers in San Diego (albeit because of Nate Kaeding more than anything else) and were really close to beating the Steelers in Pittsburgh. Look at the Panthers the year before. They were a wild card, and able to beat Philadelphia, who was the major favorite to go to the Super Bowl that year and take New England, who no one seemed to be able to even come close to, down to the wire.
My point is, once you get in, anything can happen. That's why you always go for the playoffs now if it seems at all feasible. Given the situation that AFC East is in (hell, Buffalo is tied for first place), IMO, it is feasible. Therefore you go with your best chance to win, and that is Kelly Holcomb. I see the point about developing Losman, but I can't agree with it as long as this team has any possibility for the playoffs whatsoever. If the Bills were like Cincinnati last year, or Indianapolis in Peyton Manning's rookie year, where that team wasn't going to go too far no matter what they did, I would say go for it. However, the Bills have a lot better chance at the postseason than those teams did. Therefore, as far as I'm concerned, Kelly Holcomb should be the man.
Fair enough. But let's see how KH does against a real team like NE. If he is able to hold up and perform well (meaning, the team wins with him, not in spite of him) then I will support the decision. Right now he's won against two teams in serious decline and didn't do anything special. I still feel this team is not a very good team, so unless he can do something special, it will all come crashing down when the team hits the wall.
Right now he's won against two teams in serious decline and didn't do anything special. I still feel this team is not a very good team, so unless he can do something special, it will all come crashing down when the team hits the wall.
So I'm just curious... would you say that what JP Losman did against Houston was special then?
Mr. Cynical
10-17-2005, 11:40 AM
So I'm just curious... would you say that what JP Losman did against Houston was special then?
Nope. But that was his first NFL start. And since we traded our #1, #2, and #5 for him to be our franchise QB 2 years ago, I want to see if he has anything special. 4 games isn't even close to enough games to know.
X-Era
10-17-2005, 11:50 AM
So I'm just curious... would you say that what JP Losman did against Houston was special then?
Im really getting sick of this arguement. It isnt one, JP has something both Drew and holcomb dont have, potential. It isnt Holcombs play that has us winning, its the rest of the team actually showing up. I actually would like to see what JP would do with the rest of the team that came to play yesterday.
Holcomb is a known quantity, he has limited to no upside, he is what he is. And to me, it wasnt good enough for any other team to start and keep him. That speaks volumes.
JP has tons of upside but may never reach his potential. We wont know until he plays,
lots!!!
JP vs. Houston, Holcomb vs. fins or jets. The level of production was virtually the same in my book.
Now, do I want Holcomb to start? yes. But as soon as we see what is probably inevitable, real chinks in the armor, I would yank him fast.
I think the chinks started to show yesterday.
To me, if he plays well and we win vs. NE, he stays in for this year. Even though that by no means equals a playoff berth.
The ultimate question is, can we win a SB with Holcomb? I say no way in hell. Can we with Losman? very possible if he grows into what we think he will. So then, lets get going on our path to the SB, which means these games are just wasted time.
Again, I hope Im wrong
Im really getting sick of this arguement.
So am I.
I really wish you guys would stop bringing it up.
No skin off my back though. We won. I am happy about it.
Nothing will change either of those. No matter how much you all whine.
ublinkwescore
10-17-2005, 11:56 AM
If that's the case, then IMO we aren't an SB contender for a long while. It's either JP or someone else. It's not KH.
Wow dude, let's just stick a fork in KH right now - there's no chance at him improving his game to that of worthy starter under Wyche's tutelage. This new pulse found by our O will definitely fade away sooner or later. Our D isn't as good as it was last season, but it's still solid, and it still makes big plays.
Just remember one thing this season still has quite a ways to go before we can even start to paint a playoff picture, and right now, because of Holcombe, we are well established in the hunt.
Mr. Cynical
10-17-2005, 12:10 PM
Wow dude, let's just stick a fork in KH right now - there's no chance at him improving his game to that of worthy starter under Wyche's tutelage.
Like the old expression goes, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken s**t. Not saying KH is a bad QB - quite the contrary, I think he is an EXCELLENT BACKUP, but again there is a reason no other teams fought to grab him as their starter in the offseason. Looking around the league, there are plenty of places that could use a new starting QB. But they all passed. To me, that speaks volumes (not to mention the fact that he couldn't beat out Garcia or McCown last year when he was given the opportunity)
John Doe
10-17-2005, 04:46 PM
Yup. And then I suppose TD can show you why he is still the GM of a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 5 years. Pass the Kool-Aid. It's tasty I've heard.
Let me get this straight: You are complaining about TD not getting the Bills to the playoffs, but you want him to sacrifice this entire season for the sake of getting Losman game reps?
Sounds fair.
justasportsfan
10-17-2005, 04:57 PM
If you play JP right now, he could end up like Carr or Ramsey. Batterred and bruised w/ an inconsistent OL. Besides, who's to say he isn't learning by watching Holcomb spread the ball and use our weapons instead of waiting, waiting and then run. I think Crew took the time clock w/ him when he left.
Iehoshua
10-17-2005, 05:05 PM
If you play JP right now, he could end up like Carr or Ramsey.
:ill:
If you put it that way, I'd never want to play him...
TigerJ
10-17-2005, 05:27 PM
You know, I just realized something. Kelly Holcomb does not have cool initials. "JP" and "JPL" have a ring to them. KH does not. In fact it sounds downright ugly. I wonder what that means.
Mitchy moo
10-17-2005, 05:37 PM
You know, I just realized something. Kelly Holcomb does not have cool initials. "JP" and "JPL" have a ring to them. KH does not. In fact it sounds downright ugly. I wonder what that means.
You need to refill your prescriptions. :lmao:
Mr. Cynical
10-17-2005, 08:23 PM
Let me get this straight: You are complaining about TD not getting the Bills to the playoffs, but you want him to sacrifice this entire season for the sake of getting Losman game reps?
Sounds fair.
As I have said many times already, if JP succeeds, then TD succeeds. Hard for that to happen with him sitting on the bench.
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