Mike Williams new name....

[The King]

Should be Pussyfoot.

Thats all he did on Sunday. Just danced around the pocket. Sure he bumped a few guys but when your as big as he is there is no excuse.

[EDS]

Looked to me like he was was not 100%, seemed to be favoring one leg.

[colin]

he had some absolutely crushing run blocks, and after one bad play smothered the right hand side of the Jets pass rush.

i'll take that every week.

[Dr. Lecter]

So him blocking his guys effectively is not enough for you?

[ParanoidAndroid]

Should be Pussyfoot.

Thats all he did on Sunday. Just danced around the pocket. Sure he bumped a few guys but when your as big as he is there is no excuse.

:shakeno:

[HHURRICANE]

Should be Pussyfoot.

Thats all he did on Sunday. Just danced around the pocket. Sure he bumped a few guys but when your as big as he is there is no excuse.

Hmmm. I thought he looked a lot better than Jerman. IMO I think he made a huge difference out there. I was actually pretty impressed. Gandy is the one that is starting to worry me. He is very mediocre.

[The Spaz]

Funny how all of McGahee's good runs we're to his right? Wonder who plays RT...

[vicmantak]

Looked to me like he was was not 100%, seemed to be favoring one leg.
Maybe but what is the reason that make me think that he was not 100% from many years ago...

[The_Philster]

Funny how all of McGahee's good runs we're to his right? Wonder who plays RT...
:scratch: Not sure...but he wore #68 :idunno:

[Iehoshua]

He looked better in run blocking than pass blocking, but the line as a whole was better all around. Gotta build on the strengths and strive to improve weaknesses...

[EDS]

He looked better in run blocking than pass blocking, but the line as a whole was better all around. Gotta build on the strengths and strive to improve weaknesses...

The line looked better because it was the first time since the first game of the season that the starters all started and finished the game together. They all did a great job today. Imagine how well they play when Villareal and Williams are actually healthy!

[The King]

I think a lot of you are giving MW more credit than he deserves almost all of McGahees runs were after first contact. Credit goes to the runner in those situations. McGahee actually broke out of a few piles too. I was paying close attention to MW I just dont think he is all that strong.

[mysticsoto]

I think a lot of you are giving MW more credit than he deserves almost all of McGahees runs were after first contact. Credit goes to the runner in those situations. McGahee actually broke out of a few piles too. I was paying close attention to MW I just dont think he is all that strong.

Be that as it may, MW is an order of magnitude better than Jerman, and I rather have him there any day! I thought he did some good run blocks. Keep in mind that the entire Oline was facing a top Dline - maybe one of the best in the NFL! For that reason, I don't even fault Gandy who had 2 penalties. Considering who they were facing, I thought they did fantastic! I expected Holcomb to be on the floor and maybe even leaving the game hurt and JP coming in. To my pleasant surprise, the line outperformed the Dline and I am still in shock!

[Spiderweb]

I think a lot of you are giving MW more credit than he deserves almost all of McGahees runs were after first contact. Credit goes to the runner in those situations. McGahee actually broke out of a few piles too. I was paying close attention to MW I just dont think he is all that strong.

You might wish to review tape of the game. Outside of the one breakdown he had on Ellis (sack), and despite a gimpy ankle that is going to bother him for a while, Williams did a very good job overall. As well as McGahee played, the first contact wasn't a 270-300 pound defensive lineman, and often it wasn't even a LB. A number of those "first contact" runs where McGahee made extra yards were initiated by DB's, and that's about all you can ask for from the OL. I'll take Williams over anyone else on our roster at RT any day of the week and over most of the "other" RT's in the league, when healthy.

Nope, the return of Williams was a pleasant event, even if he wasn't 100%. Personally, I enjoyed the fact that the Bills and McGahee were able to run to the right side very effectively and a large part of that was Williams.

[colin]

I think a lot of you are giving MW more credit than he deserves almost all of McGahees runs were after first contact. Credit goes to the runner in those situations. McGahee actually broke out of a few piles too. I was paying close attention to MW I just dont think he is all that strong.

i gotta disagree.

i have the game TIVO'd, some of the runs to the outside had williams just remove his man from the play entirely.

i was worried mike would get his ass handed to him all game after that one terrible sack he let up early, but for our line as a group to manhandle a great jets line (their DT was D player of the week against Tampa, and a 4th overall pick himself) makes me a lot happier about what we have.

you'll notice that holcomb rushed passes a couple of times even tho he had time, that tells you how much our protection has improved.

[Mr. Cynical]

$8M+ a year sure doesn't get what it used to I guess.

[The King]

$8M+ a year sure doesn't get what it used to I guess.

I guess this was kind of my feeling. Someone with his size and paycheck I guess I just expect to be a lot more dominant than he is.

Does anyone think he plays at a first round level?

[Mr. Cynical]

I guess this was kind of my feeling. Someone with his size and paycheck I guess I just expect to be a lot more dominant than he is.

Does anyone think he plays at a first round level?

Not even close. I've said this a million times before, show me an RT in this league that makes that much on a righty QB team. TD f'ed up by drafting him at #4, unless he was going to work at LT.

[colin]

$8M+ a year sure doesn't get what it used to I guess.

wow, you must have taken all day to read out loud in class as a child.

MIKE WILLIAMS DOES NOT MAKE 8 MILL A YEAR

MIKE WILLIAMS HAS A CAP NUMBER OF NEAR 8 MILL A YEAR

MIKE WILLIAMS NO MORE MAKES 8MILL A YEAR NOW THAN HE MADE 2 MILL A YEAR WHEN WE DRAFTED HIM (~CAP NUMBER THEN).

MIKE WILLIAMS HAS A 6 YEAR 35 MILL TOTAL VALUE CONTRACT, HE MAKES JUST UNDER 6 MILL A YEAR.

[Mr. Cynical]

wow, you must have taken all day to read out loud in class as a child.

Maybe so, but I'm quite sure I graduated. You on the other hand I have serious doubts about.

So, now that we've traded personal insults, on to the facts:

2006

Salary: $4 million
Roster bonus: $3 million
Amortized bonus: $3,453,333
"Deion" debit: $360,431
(add all 4)
Cap hit: $10,813,764

2007

Salary: $5 million
Amortized bonus: $3,453,333
"Deion" credit: ($1,081,293)
(add 1st 2 and subtract credit)
Cap hit: $7,372,040

No, his salary is not $8M/year. But look at his cap numbers. Guess who has the biggest cap hit on the team? I'll give you one little hint: he plays RT. The next closest are TKO and Moulds at $5.4M. You want to tell me he is worth the biggest cap hit over every other player on the team???? :crazy:

[Crisis]

I love the people who complain about not bringing OL in, and then ***** when we have to pay one.

Make up your minds.

[Mr. Cynical]

I love the people who complain about not bringing OL in, and then ***** when we have to pay one.

Make up your minds.

We only ***** when we severely overpay for the position and level of performance. Name a successful RT who gets the same kind of money on righty QB team. I don't mind paying that kind of coin for an LT, but at RT it's just stupid.

[mysticsoto]

We only ***** when we severely overpay for the position and level of performance. Name a successful RT who gets the same kind of money on righty QB team. I don't mind paying that kind of coin for an LT, but at RT it's just stupid.

Well Gandy isn't getting paid an extreme amt to play LT, so if it makes you feel better, add them both up and divide by 2 and I bet you it is comparable to what many teams pay for both their Tackles...

[Mitchy moo]

Well Gandy isn't getting paid an extreme amt to play LT, so if it makes you feel better, add them both up and divide by 2 and I bet you it is comparable to what many teams pay for both their Tackles...

It's all based on performances but you get good values and not so good values all over a team. Clemens is earning pennies and the dollar now but next year it will be way different for him. You cannot catch all the right players and pay them all the right amounts at the right time. Gandy isn't getting paid that much, so the split is a good way to look at it!!

[colin]

Maybe so, but I'm quite sure I graduated. You on the other hand I have serious doubts about.

So, now that we've traded personal insults, on to the facts:

2006

Salary: $4 million
Roster bonus: $3 million
Amortized bonus: $3,453,333
"Deion" debit: $360,431
(add all 4)
Cap hit: $10,813,764

2007

Salary: $5 million
Amortized bonus: $3,453,333
"Deion" credit: ($1,081,293)
(add 1st 2 and subtract credit)
Cap hit: $7,372,040

No, his salary is not $8M/year. But look at his cap numbers. Guess who has the biggest cap hit on the team? I'll give you one little hint: he plays RT. The next closest are TKO and Moulds at $5.4M. You want to tell me he is worth the biggest cap hit over every other player on the team???? :crazy:

look back at his numbers when we drafted him einstien.

he was drafted fourth overall, and got a back loaded contract and a big bonus. we are just eating the back end now because we had him "cheap" against the cap to start.

Moulds and TKO get more than their salary cap figures show, it is just that they are spread out over a long period of time unevenly.

players are neither cheap nor expensive against the cap based on one year's cap hit, you have to look at the life of the contract.

this has been explained to you and you don't understand it, so here is a very simple example:

Total contract 42Mill over 7 years, 15 mill signing bonus

here is a breakdown over 7 years

Cap hit Bonus Paid Salary Bonus Ammortized against cap
3.15M 15M 1M 2.15M
4.15M 0 2M 2.15M
4.15M 0 2M 2.15M
4.15M 0 2M 2.15M
7.15M 0 5M 2.15M
9.15M 0 7M 2.15M
10.15M 0 8M 2.15M


so from the above dick simple example you can see cap hits go from 3.15M to 10.15M, yet the average cost of the player agianst the cap is 6Mill (as 42/7 = 6). so you can't say something stupid (well, you can, but it won't be accureate) like "he only costs us 3.15M a year" or "he is costing us over 10M a year".

now add in roster and many other kinds of bonuses and you a more complicated picture, but the results are the same:

looking at today's salary cap cost and thinking that is what the player costs "per year" is ******ed.

i'm sure you are the hardest working fajita flipper at your job tho.

[Mr. Cynical]

he was drafted fourth overall, and got a back loaded contract and a big bonus. we are just eating the back end now because we had him "cheap" against the cap to start.

This gets the prize for most obvious yet irrelevant post. Just because we drafted him that high doesn't mean we have to "eat the back end". He has been sub par until recently and he still is overpaid for an RT.

And you still have yet to provide me with an example of a successful RT in this league on a righty QB team that gets paid what he does. You just keep defending him without using whatever brain matter you have rolling around in your head. In fact, you sound alot like Juice's blind love affair with Ruben at this point.

:fat: :hump:


looking at today's salary cap cost and thinking that is what the player costs "per year" is ******ed.

Gee, that's interesting. And here I thought each team has a certain cap as to what they can spend PER YEAR. :crazy:

Tell me again how it doesn't matter that MW has a bigger cap hit than any other player on the team? How it doesn't effect the team's financials at all? How he is worth being the biggest cap hit?


i'm sure you are the hardest working fajita flipper at your job tho.

I guarantee I make 3 times what you do, but that's as irrelevant to this discussion as most of the banal garbage that you post.

EDIT: And just for the record, you started the personal attacks, not me.

[Turf]

I'll say it for the one millionth time, Williams is an all pro GUARD. If it wasn't for TD's ego, after all he couldn't draft a Guard at #4 or Roy Williams, he would be playing guard where he clearly belongs.

[Mr. Cynical]

I'll say it for the one millionth time, Williams is an all pro GUARD. If it wasn't for TD's ego, after all he couldn't draft a Guard at #4 or Roy Williams, he would be playing guard where he clearly belongs.

Good point.

[colin]

This gets the prize for most obvious yet irrelevant post. Just because we drafted him that high doesn't mean we have to "eat the back end". He has been sub par until recently and he still is overpaid for an RT.

And you still have yet to provide me with an example of a successful RT in this league on a righty QB team that gets paid what he does. You just keep defending him without using whatever brain matter you have rolling around in your head. In fact, you sound alot like Juice's blind love affair with Ruben at this point.

:fat: :hump:



Gee, that's interesting. And here I thought each team has a certain cap as to what they can spend PER YEAR. :crazy:

Tell me again how it doesn't matter that MW has a bigger cap hit than any other player on the team? How it doesn't effect the team's financials at all? How he is worth being the biggest cap hit?



I guarantee I make 3 times what you do, but that's as irrelevant to this discussion as most of the banal garbage that you post.

EDIT: And just for the record, you started the personal attacks, not me.

i'm not looking to show you an example of any player at any position, you won't ever understand it.

what i am doing is trying to show everyone how the current year's salary cap number for a player doesn't indicate what we are paying a guy over a period of time. it is pretty obvious you will never understand that, you just aren't smart enough (although it doesn't require much brain power).

if we don't eat the end of mike's contract we get a cap hit from his remaining bonus, and if we cut him we lose our best linemen just entering the prime of his NFL career.

instead of saying the same dumb garbage you always spew, where you eat JPs nuts or curse bledsoe because you think he'll never play well again (nice call by the way) and obsessing over some minor detail you need to step back and look at the bigger picture, we need a RT and if we lose M williams we don't have one. salary cap room doesn't just win you games. is there some top flight RT who we can just sign? of course you have no idea, you still can't get past the serve and volley game.

and if you make 3 times what i do, congratulations, you have a 7 figure salary.

oh, wait, you forgot to even consider what i make, didn't you? well that's par for you, isn't it?

[Mr. Cynical]

i'm not looking to show you an example of any player at any position, you won't ever understand it.

what i am doing is trying to show everyone how the current year's salary cap number for a player doesn't indicate what we are paying a guy over a period of time. it is pretty obvious you will never understand that, you just aren't smart enough (although it doesn't require much brain power).

if we don't eat the end of mike's contract we get a cap hit from his remaining bonus, and if we cut him we lose our best linemen just entering the prime of his NFL career.

instead of saying the same dumb garbage you always spew, where you eat JPs nuts or curse bledsoe because you think he'll never play well again (nice call by the way) and obsessing over some minor detail you need to step back and look at the bigger picture, we need a RT and if we lose M williams we don't have one. salary cap room doesn't just win you games. is there some top flight RT who we can just sign? of course you have no idea, you still can't get past the serve and volley game.

and if you make 3 times what i do, congratulations, you have a 7 figure salary.

oh, wait, you forgot to even consider what i make, didn't you? well that's par for you, isn't it?

Let's break this down, shall we?

1. Once again you haven't answered my question, even though I've asked it 3 times now. I'll try once more, just in case you can get someone to read it to you so that you can understand it.

Name a successful RT on a righty QB team that makes as much as MW.

2. "what i am doing is trying to show everyone how the current year's salary cap number for a player doesn't indicate what we are paying a guy over a period of time. it is pretty obvious you will never understand that, you just aren't smart enough (although it doesn't require much brain power)."

A team has a cap PER YEAR, irrespective of the life of a contract of a player. Put simply, in deference to you, that means they can only spend, at most, the amount of the CAP each year. Tell me Gomer how his huge cap hit is NOT an impact to the team financially? How he is worth being the BIGGEST cap hit of any Bills player?

3. "if we cut him we lose our best linemen just entering the prime of his NFL career."

Like being the best lineman on our oline is an accomplishment. :rolleyes:

He's not worth the money, especially at RT.

4. "..and obsessing over some minor detail you need to step back and look at the bigger picture, we need a RT and if we lose M williams we don't have one. salary cap room doesn't just win you games. is there some top flight RT who we can just sign?"

The fact that you consider that our RT has the biggest cap hit on our roster a "minor detail" shows you have absolutely no clue. And who says we need a "top flight" RT to replace him? When did MW become top flight? Last time I checked, MW still hasn't made a pro bowl.

5. "and if you make 3 times what i do, congratulations, you have a 7 figure salary."

Wow, Custodial Engineers are getting paid that much these days? Maybe you aren't as dumb as I thought. Thanks for keeping the toilets clean. The world is a better place for it.

[BSXIII]

I think Mike Williams could be a very good guard. His main attribute is his size. Let him go against 400 pound DT's. Most good defensive ends use good footwork to get around the offensive tackles. You really never see them plow through the OT's. Having Williams at guard could help give the O-line a push on the line of scrimmage, which would create a bigger pocket for the QB. And let someone a little more athletic play RT.

Holy Sh..... Pujos just hit a 2 out 3 run homer in the bottom of the 9th. Cardinals may live to see another day.

[BSXIII]

Double post

[Mr. Cynical]

I think Mike Williams could be a very good guard. His main attribute is his size. Let him go against 400 pound DT's. Most good defensive ends use good footwork to get around the offensive tackles. You really never see them plow through the OT's. Having Williams at guard could help give the O-line a push on the line of scrimmage, which would create a bigger pocket for the QB. And let someone a little more athletic play RT.

Turf said this as well and I agree with you both. He is a decent RT but maybe he could be a very good G for the reasons you mentioned. The only challenge is his money. I don't know that he will accept a restructure and may leave if asked to take one..

The bottom line is our oline has been a major source of our offensive problems (I don't think anyone would disagree with this) So and any one of them is expendable and I won't lose sleep over any of them leaving.

[vicmantak]

IMO Bills might consider the following points on OL:

1. Restructure Williams' contract immediately and aggresively if Bills loose chances to be on playoffs
2. Re-sign Peters
3. Extend Gandy's contract
4. then, wait to see what happens on the league.

[The King]

Pussyfoot Williams at your service again

[Mr. Cynical]

Pussyfoot Williams at your service again

:rofl:

But hey, according to some people he's cheap, right? So no big deal.

[The King]

Bump. I just wanted to remind all of you that you're dumb asses.

[eyedog]

LOL. "Big Mike".

Speaking of Pussyfoot, what are they plaining to do with this oversized baby ?