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Rather than endlessly start thread after thread after thread onthe QB situation, i propose we combine all these posts into one ultimate thread.
Here we are, post away, lets get it out of our systems and do it in one place.
What say you? Surely we must clear the board of the "parallel" post. Back me up here and lets simply run one big post on this topic.
I will start it off.
1) Now, 6 games in, I feel I have deviated in my opinion on this topic very little. When Holcomb was brought in here it was as an insurance policy if Losman faulters. Losman did faulter, and Holcomb is starting. Its just that simple. Furthermore, a Holcomb lead team is now winning. Any fan who claims to root for the Bills must acknowledge that winning is the whole ball of wax, its just that simple. We cannot complain about wins, period.
2) However, what was NOT done with the intention of having Holcomb lead us to a SB or win one. I have not heard any member of the Bills organization say as much. Its what they are NOT saying that means something here. If no one is mentioning Holcomb as a SB caliper QB, then it follows that not too many people believe he can or will lead us there. Now, its still an easy equation, if Holcomb starts and the team keeps winning, we win the SB. But there in lies the rub. When do the winning Bills wear off? This perspective may be 2 games too early, or may be the rest of the season too early, I dont know and neither does anyone else. But the fact still remains that very few people including the Bills believe Holcomb is your SB QB. Can it happen? sure, keep winning. Will it happen, the chances are very slim IMO.
3) Obviously the thrust of this thread does not speak to the rest of the team but only the QB. This is, therefore, an incomplete look at the situation. Ask Jake Delhomme, a Warner lead Rams, or a Garcia lead SF team. All of which represent average, serviceable, QB's who play/played on squads who had a real chance at the playoffs and possibly the SB with these guys at the helm. This speaks to the notion held by many that you can win a SB without a star at QB. Yes, it can be done. Lets get that out there right now. However, IMO it will NOT be done in Buffalo in my lifetime. Why? because we have the following: 1) a GM who has had several chances to get SB caliper coaches yet grabbed 2 guys with zero head coaching experience instead, 2) a gm who refuses to sign big name and expensive OL talent but is willing to wet some fans appettites with a high 1st round draftee, 3) for some reason we perpetually end up with players who play down to the level of competition and dont show mental toughness over and over, 4) we in Buffalo still may have some dark cloud over our heads (im not sure I believe it, but many fans do). So, for all these reasons I feel the notion that an average QB starting here in Buffalo and taking us to the SB is so very very remote. How we did we fair with Collins, RJ, and Drew? Its been proven here over and over. In fact, many (including the skipping record guy who shall not be named but will respond quickly) would show you a Drew lead team in Dallas that is very very successful. Really what that shows us is exactly my point. That an average QB on this team wont get it done. However, put that same guy on a team with a great o-line and a SB winning coach and you have a recipe for the SB. Its just further proof that we need the second coming of Kelly to win here. When will we learn?
4) Back to our current situation. We now are starting Holcomb. IMO, the winning will end without a SB victory. When that happens, we are in the exact same boat we were at the start of the season. So, then, what was the point? Again, keep winning and you wont hear whining. But when it ends, where are we? Well bakc in the same boat where we need a star at QB. How do we do that? Does anybody truly believe that the same GM who wouldnt sign a SB caliper coach would now trade for or sign a SB caliper QB outright? Lets assume for a moment that Drew Brees becomes a FA and the Bills belive Drew is a SB QB (obvioulsy many people would debate that). Does anyone believe that TD would pay maybe the 8 to 10 mil per that it would require to sign him? OK, there go the sign a guy plan. How about a trade. What team in there right mind would trade their star QB for anything in the world? The Vikes have an off the field mess right now, would they trade Culpepper to us? What would it take and would TD give up that much? Losman and 2 1st rounders? Would they take it? Would it be worth it? I think I would make that trade honestly, but if it were made, would we all quietly say that was a great move? Hell no, the same people that hated us drafting Losman will be here blasting away at giving up so much. The bargain basement shoppers will want the next Gracia even though that guy could not possibly lead the Bills to the SB because of all the reasons I stated in #3. Would I like the move, yes, but watching TD so far, its a HUGE bet that he simply wouldnt make that move.
5) If you buy into #1, 2, 3, and 4, it stand to reason that we are in an almost inaleinable position here in Buffalo. We MUST do the following to finally get redemption for 4 SB losses for this blue-collar city. We MUST: 1) draft a QB with loads of potential, 2) draft a QB with a fire in his gut only rivaled by Kelly, 3) start that guy, 4) stand by through the highs and lows until he develops to the point where we have built our own star. Can we make a bad pick? absolutely, but we simply wont know for many many games. If the growth ends, it the development stops, if the same mistakes are repeated over and over through a dozens games with no signs of it getting fixed, you an be convinced you screwed up and picked the wrong guy. That leads us to Losman.
6) I do not now, and may not ever try to claim that Losman is OUR guy who will lead us to the SB. So save the responses that talk about me being a Losman lover. It just aint true. What I see in him is several of the attributes that OUR QB should have. Losman surely has a fire in his gut to play; he also has an attitude. It remains to be seen whether that means he is the next Kelly, a LB who plays QB, or the next Leaf who would simply explode or rather implode on himself and destroy any chances he ever would have to be good. Again, the potential for the right approach is there in Losman it is just unproven and unknown right now. I also believe that a team that wont sign or draft a great o-line better have a QB who can run. Losman certainly can do that, thats a known. I think it will always help a QB's cause when he can throw the ball hard. Touch is wonderful, but if you simply cant throw far enough to hit Evans open 40 yards down the field, accuracy is then worthless. Losman also has one hell of a rocket for an arm. So, with so many of the attributes that the Bills should be wanting in a QB seemingly possible with Losman, why is he not the fit? Well, we just dont know. We dont know if he EVER will be the guy. We wont know until he plays LOTS LOTS more.
So finally, following my logic, it just seems a bit shortsighted to me to have dumped Losman in favor of a guy who is winning now but is likely to quickly stop being the answer. And in the mean time, we have possibly put off any additional forward movement towards our possible SB win. In the end, I am conflicted. I want that SB win, I think that is about the ONLY thing that us fans can all agree on. I also feel pretty strongly that Holcomb wont do it or wont be enough to do it. But, right now we are winning. A few weeks ago we werent winning with Losman. I cant disagree with starting Holcomb right now. But you can bet that I will disagree with starting him if and IMO when we start losing again.
Keep winning, lets win the SB, i dont give 2 sh_ts honestly who it is at QB when we do it, and we will. But until we do, if you were to ask my opinion on who it should be, I would say it needs to be the second coming of Kelly, not the first coming of Holcomb!
Here we are, post away, lets get it out of our systems and do it in one place.
What say you? Surely we must clear the board of the "parallel" post. Back me up here and lets simply run one big post on this topic.
I will start it off.
1) Now, 6 games in, I feel I have deviated in my opinion on this topic very little. When Holcomb was brought in here it was as an insurance policy if Losman faulters. Losman did faulter, and Holcomb is starting. Its just that simple. Furthermore, a Holcomb lead team is now winning. Any fan who claims to root for the Bills must acknowledge that winning is the whole ball of wax, its just that simple. We cannot complain about wins, period.
2) However, what was NOT done with the intention of having Holcomb lead us to a SB or win one. I have not heard any member of the Bills organization say as much. Its what they are NOT saying that means something here. If no one is mentioning Holcomb as a SB caliper QB, then it follows that not too many people believe he can or will lead us there. Now, its still an easy equation, if Holcomb starts and the team keeps winning, we win the SB. But there in lies the rub. When do the winning Bills wear off? This perspective may be 2 games too early, or may be the rest of the season too early, I dont know and neither does anyone else. But the fact still remains that very few people including the Bills believe Holcomb is your SB QB. Can it happen? sure, keep winning. Will it happen, the chances are very slim IMO.
3) Obviously the thrust of this thread does not speak to the rest of the team but only the QB. This is, therefore, an incomplete look at the situation. Ask Jake Delhomme, a Warner lead Rams, or a Garcia lead SF team. All of which represent average, serviceable, QB's who play/played on squads who had a real chance at the playoffs and possibly the SB with these guys at the helm. This speaks to the notion held by many that you can win a SB without a star at QB. Yes, it can be done. Lets get that out there right now. However, IMO it will NOT be done in Buffalo in my lifetime. Why? because we have the following: 1) a GM who has had several chances to get SB caliper coaches yet grabbed 2 guys with zero head coaching experience instead, 2) a gm who refuses to sign big name and expensive OL talent but is willing to wet some fans appettites with a high 1st round draftee, 3) for some reason we perpetually end up with players who play down to the level of competition and dont show mental toughness over and over, 4) we in Buffalo still may have some dark cloud over our heads (im not sure I believe it, but many fans do). So, for all these reasons I feel the notion that an average QB starting here in Buffalo and taking us to the SB is so very very remote. How we did we fair with Collins, RJ, and Drew? Its been proven here over and over. In fact, many (including the skipping record guy who shall not be named but will respond quickly) would show you a Drew lead team in Dallas that is very very successful. Really what that shows us is exactly my point. That an average QB on this team wont get it done. However, put that same guy on a team with a great o-line and a SB winning coach and you have a recipe for the SB. Its just further proof that we need the second coming of Kelly to win here. When will we learn?
4) Back to our current situation. We now are starting Holcomb. IMO, the winning will end without a SB victory. When that happens, we are in the exact same boat we were at the start of the season. So, then, what was the point? Again, keep winning and you wont hear whining. But when it ends, where are we? Well bakc in the same boat where we need a star at QB. How do we do that? Does anybody truly believe that the same GM who wouldnt sign a SB caliper coach would now trade for or sign a SB caliper QB outright? Lets assume for a moment that Drew Brees becomes a FA and the Bills belive Drew is a SB QB (obvioulsy many people would debate that). Does anyone believe that TD would pay maybe the 8 to 10 mil per that it would require to sign him? OK, there go the sign a guy plan. How about a trade. What team in there right mind would trade their star QB for anything in the world? The Vikes have an off the field mess right now, would they trade Culpepper to us? What would it take and would TD give up that much? Losman and 2 1st rounders? Would they take it? Would it be worth it? I think I would make that trade honestly, but if it were made, would we all quietly say that was a great move? Hell no, the same people that hated us drafting Losman will be here blasting away at giving up so much. The bargain basement shoppers will want the next Gracia even though that guy could not possibly lead the Bills to the SB because of all the reasons I stated in #3. Would I like the move, yes, but watching TD so far, its a HUGE bet that he simply wouldnt make that move.
5) If you buy into #1, 2, 3, and 4, it stand to reason that we are in an almost inaleinable position here in Buffalo. We MUST do the following to finally get redemption for 4 SB losses for this blue-collar city. We MUST: 1) draft a QB with loads of potential, 2) draft a QB with a fire in his gut only rivaled by Kelly, 3) start that guy, 4) stand by through the highs and lows until he develops to the point where we have built our own star. Can we make a bad pick? absolutely, but we simply wont know for many many games. If the growth ends, it the development stops, if the same mistakes are repeated over and over through a dozens games with no signs of it getting fixed, you an be convinced you screwed up and picked the wrong guy. That leads us to Losman.
6) I do not now, and may not ever try to claim that Losman is OUR guy who will lead us to the SB. So save the responses that talk about me being a Losman lover. It just aint true. What I see in him is several of the attributes that OUR QB should have. Losman surely has a fire in his gut to play; he also has an attitude. It remains to be seen whether that means he is the next Kelly, a LB who plays QB, or the next Leaf who would simply explode or rather implode on himself and destroy any chances he ever would have to be good. Again, the potential for the right approach is there in Losman it is just unproven and unknown right now. I also believe that a team that wont sign or draft a great o-line better have a QB who can run. Losman certainly can do that, thats a known. I think it will always help a QB's cause when he can throw the ball hard. Touch is wonderful, but if you simply cant throw far enough to hit Evans open 40 yards down the field, accuracy is then worthless. Losman also has one hell of a rocket for an arm. So, with so many of the attributes that the Bills should be wanting in a QB seemingly possible with Losman, why is he not the fit? Well, we just dont know. We dont know if he EVER will be the guy. We wont know until he plays LOTS LOTS more.
So finally, following my logic, it just seems a bit shortsighted to me to have dumped Losman in favor of a guy who is winning now but is likely to quickly stop being the answer. And in the mean time, we have possibly put off any additional forward movement towards our possible SB win. In the end, I am conflicted. I want that SB win, I think that is about the ONLY thing that us fans can all agree on. I also feel pretty strongly that Holcomb wont do it or wont be enough to do it. But, right now we are winning. A few weeks ago we werent winning with Losman. I cant disagree with starting Holcomb right now. But you can bet that I will disagree with starting him if and IMO when we start losing again.
Keep winning, lets win the SB, i dont give 2 sh_ts honestly who it is at QB when we do it, and we will. But until we do, if you were to ask my opinion on who it should be, I would say it needs to be the second coming of Kelly, not the first coming of Holcomb!
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