Ouch! Pasquarelli on Flowers...

[lordofgun]

DE Erik Flowers (Buffalo): A strong senior season in college catapulted Flowers into the first round of the 2000 draft, but the undersized end has not progressed the way the past Bills regime felt he would. Flowers' cap number for '02 is $1.13 million, and he will have to show something in preseason play to even make the regular-season roster. He is suffering from a neck injury that caused one club official to grouse: "Now you can't even trade the guy." Flowers has just six starts, and four sacks, in two years.

[BillsNYC]

way to go butler!

[bduff54]

lets leave the bashing of Butler since he is recovering from cancer!

[lordofgun]

It was still a stupid draft choice!

[lordofgun]

Originally posted by bduff54
lets leave the bashing of Butler since he is recovering from cancer!

You really shouldn't be bashing Flowers since he's recovering from a bone chip in his neck. :D

[bduff54]

lol, there is just something wrong with bashing a dieing man.

[WG]

Alright fellas, easy now...

I didn't think the choice was stellar that year, but I also didn't think it was horrible. Flowers was good in college. Butler, as we now know, was not the best judge of talent. That's what he had the marvelous Bills scouting staff for.

I agree that Flowers is on the bubble however. We are so thin at depth, that if we can find someone to be even average in all the depth positions, IMO he's gone. Close to or equal to Flowers, and he'll get cut. He's not expensive, but I really don't see him being on the team next year which means there's no real reason to keep him other than depth. He has no significant cap/bonus to consider. So it saves us ~ $1M straight up. That, along w/ a few others might enable us to land a decent DT or DE in replacement.

It wouldn't be hard to find a DT/DE who's at least as good as Flowers for the same or less.

[BillsNYC]

Originally posted by bduff54
lets leave the bashing of Butler since he is recovering from cancer!

i don't play by those rules...this was done before all of this...

[Ebenezer]

Actually cutting Flowers will only save about $300K this year...

His base salary is $600K...when you cut him and add another player to the roster at $300K you only get a $300K savings...

[ArcticWildMan]

I hated the pick then, and I hate it even more now. Flowers is/was the typical workout warrior. Loaded with so called "potential", but never able to utilize it.

[BillsNYC]

cut him and sign sam adams!

[Judge]

Originally posted by ArcticWildMan
I hated the pick then, and I hate it even more now. Flowers is/was the typical workout warrior. Loaded with so called "potential", but never able to utilize it.

I did too, but I just figured that Butler and everyone else knew something about this guy that wasn't readily apparent and gave them the benefit of the doubt.

Flowers rose out of nowhere in the final yr of college and in his combine workouts, right? Maybe those combine workouts are overrated- you can be a great athlete, but still need to know how to play the game!

[HenryRules]

When you look at the DE's that were drafted just after him (Darren Howard - 17 career sacks, John Engleberger - 7, Michael Boireau - yet to play) its not like there was anyone amazing to follow. Howard is way ahead of Flowers and Engleberger is ok, but if I was San Fran, I'd still be looking to upgrade at DE over him. Boireau is nothing. Yes Flowers has been unproductive, but its not like there was a whole lot of chioce for a team that was looking for a future DE.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I think Flowers will make the team only because we have no one else.

[DraftBoy]

I didnt like the pick then, but had hope. I still say the jury is out as if this preseason will determine his fate.

[clumping platelets]

Imagine having Darren Howard at LDE...........hmmmmmmmm

Hindsight is always 20/20

[The_Philster]

Originally posted by BillsNYC
way to go butler!

What do you expect? The guy screwed up our cap and then ran out of town like a coward.

[HenryRules]

I think that's a bit harsh Philster to blame all the teams problems on Butler. I think the contracts to the two QB's were in large part due to Wilson. Overall, I'd say that Butler was very good at spotting talent (the Flowers pick aside) but had a lot of trouble placing a monetary value on that talent. Event still, if it wasn't for the contract given to RJ, which at the time it was given, he was still a career backup and the amount was out of whack entirely, the Bills would not have had to cut nearly has deep or as quickly as they had to do.

[The_Philster]

Butler was good at spotting talent but he made it quite clear he had no intentions of coming back all that season. It's rather curious that his 2000 draft was one of his worst considering it was his last. As far as the contracts given to the QBs, I lay the balme for Flutie's dumb contract at Wilson's feet but Butler was behind RJ's and the contracts of everyone else. Sure they had Jim Overdorf who was in charge of the salary cap but he worked directly for Butler.

[clumping platelets]

Butler made the mistake of not trying to re-sign players before they became UFAs. He also "restructured" too many contracts by converting salary to amortized signing bonus.....that's why we had approx. $24 million "dead cap" for 2001 and approx. $14.5 million in 2002.

[blcny]

Send Flowers packing. He'e had his time to prove himself, and hasn't. BYE BYE

[HenryRules]

I don't know if I'd classify the 2000 class as the worst. DaShon Polk, Travares Tillman, and possibly Flowers could end up having key roles. Depending on where he ends up, Sammy Morris could end up contributing a lot as well. IMO, the '98 draft was worse than the 2000 (only the 40 games played by Cowart were any good - and remember, the reason he dropped so far was because of injury). Hicks, Linton, Coleman, Allotey, and Loud didn't do a whole bunch. Actually, aside from the one pick (and almost every GM has had one 1st rounder that sucked), the 2000 draft is almost as good as any other draft he had with the Bills. My point to all this, well, contrary to what a lot of people think, there isn't really a whole bunch of evidence that Butler tanked the 2000 draft.

[SABURZFAN]

Originally posted by BillsNYC
cut him and sign sam adams!



you're kidding,right?:lol:

[SABURZFAN]

Originally posted by HenryRules
I think that's a bit harsh Philster to blame all the teams problems on Butler. I think the contracts to the two QB's were in large part due to Wilson. Overall, I'd say that Butler was very good at spotting talent (the Flowers pick aside) but had a lot of trouble placing a monetary value on that talent. Event still, if it wasn't for the contract given to RJ, which at the time it was given, he was still a career backup and the amount was out of whack entirely, the Bills would not have had to cut nearly has deep or as quickly as they had to do.




i wouldn't blame it all on Butterball.the Old Senile One(wilson)was part of the blame too.

[SABURZFAN]

do you think flowers would play any better if he were to change his last name to lafleur?