JP might be the future, so he should start now

[YardRat]

Preston might be the future at center, so he should start now instead of Teague too.

Also...Parrish could be the future, so he should start instead of Moulds.

Gates instead of McGahee, Greer instead of Clements, Ezekiel instead of Fletcher, Geisinger instead of Villariel, Jefferson instead of Adams, King instead of McGee, Leonhard instead of Vincent, and Wilson instead of Evans.

Did I leave anybody out?

[Mr. Cynical]

:rolleyes:

[lordofgun]

Flawed logic.

[YardRat]

Flawed logic.

How so? Clements is dashing for big money after this season...shouldn't we find out now if his replacement can play?

Fletcher and Adams are getting old and the defense sucks anyway...shouldn't the young guys get a chance to see they can play in their place? Can't do any worse, can they?

The offensive line sucks, and there will be changes there also...how are we going to find out if the rookies are going to be the future on the line unless they play now?

Actually, it's perfect and basic logic.

[YardRat]

I can't believe you negged me for that :D

[Mr. Cynical]

Flawed logic.

Completely.

[BSXIII]

I agree Yard Rat. Some people just like to obsess about the QB and overlook all the other faults this team has. The best players should play period.

[Throne Logic]

The flaw is that you are giving Holcomb the equivilent value of Probowl type talent. He's show enough to prove he isn't on that level.

[lordofgun]

The flaw is that you are giving Holcomb the equivilent value of Probowl type talent. He's show enough to prove he isn't on that level.
Bingo

[lordofgun]

I can't believe you negged me for that :D
Wasn't me.

[gr8slayer]

QB is a bit more of a complex position than any of the others you mentioned. Your team can still win without an above average FS, SS, CB, SLB, WLB, MLB, blah blah blah.

But you dont have a prayer if your QB is not well above average.

[Throne Logic]

QB is a bit more of a complex position than any of the others you mentioned. Your team can still win without an above average FS, SS, CB, SLB, WLB, MLB, blah blah blah.

But you dont have a prayer if your QB is not well above average.

Most would through the Trent Dilfer effect at you. I'll ellaborate a bit more on this. You need a QB who is functional. Functional in that he executes plays properly and commits very few errors. He doesn't need to do anything special.

Holcomb is close to being able to fill that roll. However, he has shown one major shortcoming. He does not find receivers more than 10 yards down the field. I'm not yet sure if this is just conservative coaching, but Holcomb has missed most of the few passes he did toss down field.

Let Losman learn. At least we know he has the strong potential to get the ball down field. The offense is completely feeble and anemic. Losman could provide some spark here and there to keep drives going in situations that Holcomb is unable to do.

The biggest problem: The coaching staff is unimaginative and predicatable after they get beyond the pre-scripted plays to start the game. They just cannot make in-game adjustments very well.

[kgun12]

Most would through the Trent Dilfer effect at you. I'll ellaborate a bit more on this. You need a QB who is functional. Functional in that he executes plays properly and commits very few errors. He doesn't need to do anything special.
Holcomb is close to being able to fill that roll. However, he has shown one major shortcoming. He does not find receivers more than 10 yards down the field. I'm not yet sure if this is just conservative coaching, but Holcomb has missed most of the few passes he did toss down field.
Let Losman learn. At least we know he has the strong potential to get the ball down field. The offense is completely feeble and anemic. Losman could provide some spark here and there to keep drives going in situations that Holcomb is unable to do.
The biggest problem: The coaching staff is unimaginative and predicatable after they get beyond the pre-scripted plays to start the game. They just cannot make in-game adjustments very well.

I agree

Dilfer was aleast able to throw the ball at least 20 yards. Holcomb has shown NO ability to throw the ball down field, hence as we saw yesterday and will see as long as he is QB is 8 in the box, stop Willis and let Holcomb dink and dunk down the field til the red zone without the run it's hard to throw in the red zone.

You can't learn watching from the sideline can't be done! The Giants were 5-4 last year when decided to put Eli in, they suffered through the season took alot of crap from fans, media and probably players (like Moulds did) I wonder where his maturation would be this year if they didn't stick to there guns last year. I'm not saying JP's progress would be as good, however standing on the sidelines assures us we will never know!

[justasportsfan]

Holcomb is close to being able to fill that roll. However, he has shown one major shortcoming. He does not find receivers more than 10 yards down the field. I'm not yet sure if this is just conservative coaching, but Holcomb has missed most of the few passes he did toss down field.
. He's tossed for 400 yds in a playoff game and can't seem to achieve half of that here. Is this his flaw or was this an OL or coaching problem? :idunno:

Dilfer had a running game and D that were guaranteed weapons in every game . Holcomb has neither.

[Mr. Cynical]

He's tossed for 400 yds in a playoff game and can't seem to achieve half of that here. Is this his flaw or was this an OL or coaching problem? :idunno:

Dilfer had a running game and D that were guaranteed weapons in every game . Holcomb has neither.

We getting dangerously close to having another "Drew-ish" debate here.

"It's the oline, the rb, the d, the coach, etc., etc."

Anyway, regardless of how good KH is or is not, the simple fact is that the *team* is not good. Therefore we may as well get JP in there to get him the experience. KH doesn't need experience, he's a 10 year career backup. If we were a playoff team, then playing KH has some possible merit. But on a non-playoff team, it makes no sense whatsoever.

[Throne Logic]

He's tossed for 400 yds in a playoff game and can't seem to achieve half of that here. Is this his flaw or was this an OL or coaching problem? :idunno:
Dilfer had a running game and D that were guaranteed weapons in every game . Holcomb has neither.

Holcomb's 400 yard playoff game was one game. Rob Johnson had a great game with Jacksonville. So great that Buffalo gave up a 1st & 4th rounder for him. Do you know how Holcomb got to 400 yards that game? Was it made up of some really successful screen plays, like most of his yards from the Raiders game? I haven't researched it, but I bet you haven't either. "Even a blind squirrel sometimes finds a nut."

I'm not trying to bash Holcomb. I like him. I think he is the absolutely PERFECT backup for this team. He seems to be an intelligent QB. But he doesn't have starting physical talent. JP has the physical talent. He needs to work on his decision making abilities in live game situations.

Regardless of where the problems lie, we all acknowledge that there are some big problems that, for whatever reason, don't look like they are going to improve anytime soon. That just supports the argument that Losman should be in gaining whatever experience he can now. That way, when the rest of the numerous problems are eventually worked out, the young QB will be ready.

[YardRat]

We getting dangerously close to having another "Drew-ish" debate here.

"It's the oline, the rb, the d, the coach, etc., etc."

Anyway, regardless of how good KH is or is not, the simple fact is that the *team* is not good. Therefore we may as well get JP in there to get him the experience. KH doesn't need experience, he's a 10 year career backup. If we were a playoff team, then playing KH has some possible merit. But on a non-playoff team, it makes no sense whatsoever.

And thus the confusion on why there is a double-standard being applied, with one set of 'logical' rules for the QB and another entirely for the rest of the team.

So you believe Holcomb isn't the answer, the Bill's are definitely NOT a play-off, JP is the future and he needs experience in game conditions to progress and hopefully evolve into the capable, or even dynamic, player you envision him to be. Fine.

But why not apply that to the rest of the team? Clements will bolt for big money after this season, he's not going to help the team make the playoffs this year, why not put the future at CB in now so that HE can gain game experience, and be a better player for next year? Why not bench Teague in favor of Preston so that he can gain experience in the trenches and be better prepared for next year?

And the 'he's a Pro Bowl quality player' is an invalid argument...you're not going to make the play-offs regardless of whether you've got a Pro Bowler at corner or not, so what's the difference?

If you're going to build the TEAM for the future, then play the guys you know are going to be here in the future, regardless of their current talent level, so that they may be better prepared for next year. If you're trying to accomplish a goal THIS year, such as making the playoffs, then put the best players at their respective positions on the field and worry about the future when it's the only thing you have to hold on to.

[The_Philster]

Most would through the Trent Dilfer effect at you. I'll ellaborate a bit more on this. You need a QB who is functional. Functional in that he executes plays properly and commits very few errors. He doesn't need to do anything special.

Holcomb is close to being able to fill that roll. However, he has shown one major shortcoming. He does not find receivers more than 10 yards down the field. I'm not yet sure if this is just conservative coaching, but Holcomb has missed most of the few passes he did toss down field.

Let Losman learn. At least we know he has the strong potential to get the ball down field. The offense is completely feeble and anemic. Losman could provide some spark here and there to keep drives going in situations that Holcomb is unable to do.

The biggest problem: The coaching staff is unimaginative and predicatable after they get beyond the pre-scripted plays to start the game. They just cannot make in-game adjustments very well.
Honestly, I think Holcomb has a possibility of succeeding in a Dilfer-type role..but we have to surround him with better talent at various positions like Dilfer had

[TAILGATERTHOM]

What ever happened to Rob Johnson???