London Fletcher

[The King]

I have the general impression that most Bills fans don't really understand Londons value to this team. I am curious to know where you think he stands.

Personally I think he is playing on a higher level than Ray Lewis and has been for the last year or two. I truely think he is top in the league right now. Donnie Edwards has been down right nasty, Zach Thomas is every bit as consistant as London, Jonathan Vilma is young and already a menace, and when Brian Urlacher can stay healthy he can hang with the best.

Where does London stand in your book.

[justasportsfan]

London = Zach. Unless we find a Vilma in the draft, we keep Fletch.

[Mudflap1]

Above average -- good. Not as good as Ray Lewis. We have the 31st (or is it 32nd now?) run defense in the league. Yes, Spikes is a big loss, no replacement for big Pat is a big loss, but London Fletcher IS the Mike linebacker, and he has more responsibility than anyone on the team for run defense. We're not getting it done. I like the guy, but he's not top 5 in the league. Maybe top dozen.

Jon

[G. Host]

I think Fletcher would be even better in a 3-4 defense.

Right now it appears conditioning is solely lacking which means MM made a major mistake giving them the "Camp Marv" approach because they appeared to be picking it up quickly.

[Mudflap1]

I agree, I think he would be great in a 3-4.

Jon

[Pride]

He was god awful this week... wanna know the reason we are getting beat up the middle on running plays? Watch the fullback/center take london out of the play EVERY time!

I watched that a lot this week... and he was consistently being blocked away from the play, rather than shedding the block and at least disrupting the RB's path.

[Gunzlingr]

Why not switch to a 3-4? It has seemed to work for the Vikes the last couple of weeks? Sam at NT and shake things up, catch NE unawares?

[mchurchfie]

London = Zach. Unless we find a Vilma in the draft, we keep Fletch.
Zach has made a living out of making plays behind the LOS, Fletcher makes all of his plays 6 yards downfield. He is the defensive version of Drew Bledsoe misiling everyone with his stats because he is always the leading tackler. He is the middle LB, he is supposed to be the leading tackler. He opitimizes this whole defense....OVERRATED.

[The King]

Who do we have play inside? We line-up Posey and Crowell Out, who plays inside with London? This is a huge reason why I think the Bills shouldv'e gone after Oj Atogwe in the draft, versatility and a replacement for either London or Troy Vincent down the road.

[mchurchfie]

He was god awful this week... wanna know the reason we are getting beat up the middle on running plays? Watch the fullback/center take london out of the play EVERY time!

I watched that a lot this week... and he was consistently being blocked away from the play, rather than shedding the block and at least disrupting the RB's path.
:bf1::bf1::bf1: Someone FINALLY sees what I have been seeing for the last couple of years. The middle LB makes the whole defense or breaks it, he IS one of the main problems on this defense. He has NO defensive awareness or vision before the snap and a lot of times gives up on the play once he gets locked up on a block instead of playing off it. He is HORRIBLE.

[eyedog]

Fletcher is an average mlb who can't do **** unless he has two fat slobs like Sam and Pat to keep blockers off him. He's missing fat Pat more than anyone. he also is having trouble getting off blocks. They need to draft a mlb next year and the guy is playing at Iowa, A. Hodge.

[justasportsfan]

Zach has made a living out of making plays behind the LOS, Fletcher makes all of his plays 6 yards downfield. He is the defensive version of Drew Bledsoe misiling everyone with his stats because he is always the leading tackler. He is the middle LB, he is supposed to be the leading tackler. He opitimizes this whole defense....OVERRATED.that's why I said Fletch=Zach. Both of them are undersized and usually get's owned by blocking OL . But they both are sure tacklers. Right now there isn't anyone out there that would be a immense upgrade over Fletcher. He's still an asset on this team.

[mchurchfie]

that's why I said Fletch=Zach. Both of them are undersized and usually get's owned by blocking OL . But they both a sure tacklers.
But..............Zach has been better over his career. He does make some impact plays once in awhile, so I wouldn't equate Fletch to Zach. That is too much credit.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I can list several ILB's that are playing better right now. I won't count Peterson from JAC because he has had it easy behind Stroud and Henderson.

Brooking - ATL
Morgan - CAR
Urlacher - CHI
Pierce - NYG
Vilma - NYJ

I've been critical of Fletcher this year but I have not taken into consideration that RB's are coming through the line untouched and at full speed. He's had to do a lot of chasing and he's too slow for that. The D-line needs to do a better job of making at least some contact at the line to slow these RB's down a little.

[justasportsfan]

But..............Zach has been better over his career. He does make some impact plays once in awhile, so I wouldn't equate Fletch to Zach. That is too much credit. ZAch has been playing well under Sabans new scheme. Before that he was no different. He was making tackles behind the LOS. He too was one of the top tacklers in the league but not a big play lb. He's one of the reasons why the fins have been known to fold in Decemeber. Zach usually disappears as well.

Don't get me wrong, I have all the respect for Zach but he wasn't a dominant Lb. Even finfans called him overrated.

[mchurchfie]

I can list several ILB's that are playing better right now. I won't count Peterson from JAC because he has had it easy behind Stroud and Henderson.

Brooking - ATL
Morgan - CAR
Urlacher - CHI
Pierce - NYG
Vilma - NYJ

I've been critical of Fletcher this year but I have not taken into consideration that RB's are coming through the line untouched and at full speed. He's had to do a lot of chasing and he's too slow for that. The D-line needs to do a better job of making at least some contact at the line to slow these RB's down a little.
Instead of doing the chasing why doesn't he do what all good middle LBs are supposed to do and anticipate and meet him in the hole. That is his job while the DL and DTs take up the blocks. He is ALWAYS one step behind the play.

[mchurchfie]

ZAch has been playing well under Sabans new scheme. Before that he was no different. He was making tackles behind the LOS. He too was one of the top tacklers in the league but not a big play lb. He's one of the reasons why the fins have been known to fold in Decemeber. Zach usually disappears as well.
Don't get me wrong, I have all the respect for Zach but he wasn't a dominant Lb. Even finfans called him overrated.I agree, he does disappear at some very important times.

[McGahee420]

I can list several ILB's that are playing better right now. I won't count Peterson from JAC because he has had it easy behind Stroud and Henderson.

Brooking - ATL
Morgan - CAR
Urlacher - CHI
Pierce - NYG
Vilma - NYJ

I've been critical of Fletcher this year but I have not taken into consideration that RB's are coming through the line untouched and at full speed. He's had to do a lot of chasing and he's too slow for that. The D-line needs to do a better job of making at least some contact at the line to slow these RB's down a little.

How about Odell Thurman from cinci, he is NASTY!
Zach Thomas is having a great season too along with DJ Williams

[ParanoidAndroid]

Fletcher is an average mlb who can't do **** unless he has two fat slobs like Sam and Pat to keep blockers off him. He's missing fat Pat more than anyone. he also is having trouble getting off blocks. They need to draft a mlb next year and the guy is playing at Iowa, A. Hodge.

I think we need a DT first, someone top flight and Hodge is sure to be gone by round 2. DT is a deep position this year, but Haloti Ngata is just too damn good to pass up on. BUT, if Ahmad Brooks is around when we draft, he is worth considering. He's as much of a sure thing as Vilma was. Taller, bigger, faster and better than Hodge.

A linbacker like D'Qwell Jackson could be had in round 2 or anthony Schlegel in round 3.
Schlegel: He did lead the team in tackles for loss with an impressive 10.5, and may have the best overall ability at linebacker of any LB at OSU. A very tough overall prospect who will be just as good in the pros when he gets there. http://condraft.com/player.php?id=758
They are talking about a team who also has AJ Hawk.

This would allow us to go after an OT or OG in round 2. There will be some very good OT's (Darryn Colledge) left. That position is MAD deep this year.

who wants to talk draft? It's my absolute favorite.

[ParanoidAndroid]

How about Odell Thurman from cinci, he is NASTY!
Zach Thomas is having a great season too along with DJ Williams

Can't disagree with that. I stopped listing...it was getting depressing.

[Lexwhat]

Can't disagree with that. I stopped listing...it was getting depressing.

How about Jeremiah Trotter of Philly? Last year when he became the starter, The Eagles pass defense went from one of the worst to one of the best. At the end of the season, they finished #12 in the league, if I remember correctly. But I do know that things turned around a lot when he came in.

I don't know if this is true, but I heard someone say that the Redskins MLB Lemar Marshall is an up and coming player. But I have never seen him, so I dont know.

[Lexwhat]

How about Jeremiah Trotter of Philly? Last year when he became the starter, The Eagles pass defense went from one of the worst to one of the best. At the end of the season, they finished #12 in the league, if I remember correctly. But I do know that things turned around a lot when he came in.

I don't know if this is true, but I heard someone say that the Redskins MLB Lemar Marshall is an up and coming player. But I have never seen him, so I dont know.


Oops, I meant run defense, not pass defense.


And by the way, I dont dislike London, I think he does the best he can with the physical abilities that he has. As someone else said, unless there's gonna be a big upgrade at that position, I dont see London leaving.

[colin]

I can list several ILB's that are playing better right now. I won't count Peterson from JAC because he has had it easy behind Stroud and Henderson.

Brooking - ATL
Morgan - CAR
Urlacher - CHI
Pierce - NYG
Vilma - NYJ

I've been critical of Fletcher this year but I have not taken into consideration that RB's are coming through the line untouched and at full speed. He's had to do a lot of chasing and he's too slow for that. The D-line needs to do a better job of making at least some contact at the line to slow these RB's down a little.

with the exception of pierce, all these guys are TOP TOP talent guys.

they have rare speed, strength, size, aggressiveness and smarts. TKO is just like they are, but a better super athlete, but they are along the same lines of guys who do all the dirty jobs very well AND make big time plays.

london is an over acheiver, and a solid linebacker when protected by DTs, but is too small, too slow, and not a sure enough tackler to match up with any of those guys, not even close.

we COULD use a new MLB, but posey spikes crowell might be better than any other combination. spikes in the middle is a beutiful thing.

we do need a young safety or 2, and 2 DTs

[Forward_Lateral]

[quote=MBBedard]I have the general impression that most Bills fans don't really understand Londons value to this team. I am curious to know where you think he stands.

Personally I think he is playing on a higher level than Ray Lewis and has been for the last year or two. quote]

WHAT!!!!!! I'm sorry, but Ray Lewis doesn't get run over by a RB in a gap, or anywhere else. London got run over at least a few times on Sunday by Lamont Jordan. He's nowhere near Ray Lewis. MBB, this might be the biggest homer post I've ever seen.

[The King]

WHAT!!!!!! I'm sorry, but Ray Lewis doesn't get run over by a RB in a gap, or anywhere else. London got run over at least a few times on Sunday by Lamont Jordan. He's nowhere near Ray Lewis. MBB, this might be the biggest homer post I've ever seen.

I am sorry, but Ray Lewis has lived off his name the last two seasons, his play has dropped off dramatically. Fletch was taking Jordan on after he ripped through the line untouched 5-10 230lbs. Jordan runs like a cannon ball, I honestly dont think Ray Lewis could've done much better in that situation.

[bigbub2352]

i think london fletcher has taken to much of a beating for his slitle frame and he is only as good as the players around him, i went to the oakland game he got run over consistently and i have gone to 3 other games and seen the same, part of it is that tim anderson is a bum and sam adams only plays every 3 games, but he was consistently out of position and bulled over, he is a little past his prime in my opinion and i think we missed the window with our d

[LtBillsFan66]

:bf1::bf1::bf1: Someone FINALLY sees what I have been seeing for the last couple of years. The middle LB makes the whole defense or breaks it, he IS one of the main problems on this defense. He has NO defensive awareness or vision before the snap and a lot of times gives up on the play once he gets locked up on a block instead of playing off it. He is HORRIBLE.
Is he horrible or average?

[LtBillsFan66]

I'm surprised with the poll results. I've been defending Fletcher the last few years from people who say he sucks. Most voted above average. And the people who say he sucks, vote average like I did. :scratch:

I do admit he got pummeled against Oakland.

[The King]

I'm surprised with the poll results. I've been defending Fletcher the last few years from people who say he sucks. Most voted above average. And the people who say he sucks, vote average like I did. :scratch:

I do admit he got pummeled against Oakland.

You cant really dispute that. But you're right about the results, thats kind of why I started this poll in the first place.

[LtBillsFan66]

It's the message board mentality I guess. You can't simply say someone is average. He has to suck and needs to be cut asap or is a first ballot hall of famer.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Fletcher misses way too many tackles. He's average at best.

[gr8slayer]

The guy is a freak and elite.

[Earthquake Enyart]

When the other team can run at will on you, there is no way your MLB is "elite"

[The King]

When the other team can run at will on you, there is no way your MLB is "elite"

Thomas Jones racked up 139 yards and 5.6ypc against Ray Lewis and Baltimores Defense. I think Jordan is a hell of a lot more dominant than Jones. You cant judge a player by one game.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I'm not. What are we, 31st in run defense?

[The King]

I'm not. What are we, 31st in run defense?

We also have a MLB who has been left out to dry. His job has changed quite a bit since last year, he is taking much more heat over the middle and a lot of times he is putting himself in a position to cover Crowells back. I just dont think its all that accurate to judge London on this years performance. There are too many variables.

[HHURRICANE]

He was god awful this week... wanna know the reason we are getting beat up the middle on running plays? Watch the fullback/center take london out of the play EVERY time!

I watched that a lot this week... and he was consistently being blocked away from the play, rather than shedding the block and at least disrupting the RB's path.

Right on brother!! Someone who actually watches the game like me! Great post.

[eyedog]

I think we need a DT first, someone top flight and Hodge is sure to be gone by round 2. DT is a deep position this year, but Haloti Ngata is just too damn good to pass up on. BUT, if Ahmad Brooks is around when we draft, he is worth considering. He's as much of a sure thing as Vilma was. Taller, bigger, faster and better than Hodge.

A linbacker like D'Qwell Jackson could be had in round 2 or anthony Schlegel in round 3.
Schlegel: He did lead the team in tackles for loss with an impressive 10.5, and may have the best overall ability at linebacker of any LB at OSU. A very tough overall prospect who will be just as good in the pros when he gets there. http://condraft.com/player.php?id=758
They are talking about a team who also has AJ Hawk.

This would allow us to go after an OT or OG in round 2. There will be some very good OT's (Darryn Colledge) left. That position is MAD deep this year.

who wants to talk draft? It's my absolute favorite.

I'm not talking 1st rd, i'm thinking 2nd or 3rd rd with hodge. I fully agree this team needs both o@d linemen.

[justasportsfan]

he is only as good as the players around him, this best describes Fletcher, IMO. Just LIke Pat was awsome w/ Ted Washington and Sam Adams and can't do squat at Minny.

[mchurchfie]

Is he horrible or average?
I voted average but am leaningly heavily towards awful.

[LtBillsFan66]

I voted average but am leaningly heavily towards awful.
:rolleyes:

[colin]

i just reviewed the raiders game, london was HORRIBLE in that one.

he missed tackles, ran himself out of plays, and on passes always found a way to have no effect.

the way he has been playing, he is no longer an average NFL middle linebacker. he needs to improve in the rest of the season or else he is gonna be out of a job here.

crowell, spikes, posey would be a pretty solid combo. posey doesn't make many plays, but can do some of the dirty work.

[The King]

bump

[Kerr]

I'll put it this way. We could do worse than London Fletcher. Having said that, I think that as long as he has guys up front who will take care of blockers, he'll make loads of plays.

[PECKERWOOD]

Elite.

[Historian]

He'd be much better with a couple real DTs in front of him, but the guy is all over the field.

[shelby]

Above average, and underrated if anything.
Church and i always did disagree about Fletcher.

[Billsrock4life]

:bf1::bf1::bf1: Someone FINALLY sees what I have been seeing for the last couple of years. The middle LB makes the whole defense or breaks it, he IS one of the main problems on this defense. He has NO defensive awareness or vision before the snap and a lot of times gives up on the play once he gets locked up on a block instead of playing off it. He is HORRIBLE.

its not the LBs responsibility to take on Lineman, sure if an OL comes out to block him he should shed them and make the tackle.....BUT its the DL's job to keep the OL off the backers so they can make tackles, which obviously if he is taking on blockers alot then the DL isn't getting it done. Oh and any good LB would be better with 2 big DL in front of them.......thats what allows LB's to roam free and make tackles.