The defense is taking a beating for this season but

[Patrick76777]

When your offense is the third worst in the league ahead of only Houston and San Francisco, You’d have to be a flipping moron to put too much of the blame on the D.


Only ahead of Houston and San Francisco!!!!!!!!! That’s downright embarrassing!!!

[Patrick76777]

When your offense is the third worst in the league ahead of only Houston and San Francisco, You’d have to be a flipping moron to put too much of the blame on the D.
Only ahead of Houston and San Francisco!!!!!!!!! That’s downright embarrassing!!!


Not to mention the fact that after 7 games we have the leagues 5th leading rusher with over 650 yards.


Is it even possible to have a 653 yard back who's on pace for 1500 yards and still have the 30th ranked offense? You've got to work hard to get those kind of stats.

[Pride]

Take out Willis's best day and he only has 500 yards (Wys joke)

[Patrick76777]

Take out Willis's best day and he only has 500 yards (Wys joke)
Yeah, then I see a thread here about someone calling Willis out!

That’s the thing with fans. They don’t realize that RB’s don’t go for 140 yards every week. If they did, they’d finish the year with 2240.

If Willis had the game that LT had last week, people here would be saying he’s never going to be a great back and whatnot. They’d be diving off cliffs.

But LT has that game and it’s just a small bump in the road on his way to greatness.


And if I hear one more thing about how great San Diego looks I’m going to scream! Did anyone notice that they are 3-4?????? There’s another team that’s 3-4 right now. Who is that?

[camelcowboy]

How the hell is the offense suppose to do anything when the defense can't get itself off the field, The defense does deserve its critisim. Stop the run, Offense needs to run the ball, only unit doing its job is the special teams.

[Patrick76777]

How the hell is the offense suppose to do anything when the defense can't get itself off the field, The defense does deserve its critisim. Stop the run, Offense needs to run the ball, only unit doing its job is the special teams.
I can only hope you’re joking!

[HHURRICANE]

How the hell is the offense suppose to do anything when the defense can't get itself off the field, The defense does deserve its critisim. Stop the run, Offense needs to run the ball, only unit doing its job is the special teams.

Totally agree. Even though our O sucks the D deserves the blame as well. They are not a clutch unit. I have watched them blow their share of games for us dating back to the romp at KC on SNF 3 years ago or the Jacksonville game last year which in the end cost us the playoffs. They collaspe at the most critical times.

[camelcowboy]

Re: Pat's............comments


No, i don't know what games your watching, but our Defense is making average running back look like superstars. The offense score 17 points, the defense allowed 4 rushing touchdowns on long drives. Including one drive were the raiders gain a first down on third and 5, then was moved back on holding, third and 15 they ran the same play again and picked up the 15 yards. The defense is garbage. The problem is simple, if the bills fall behind they will lose, because the defense can't stop teams from running out the clock. If they have a lead, then the Seconday which is great when teams are forced into throwing has a good chance of beating teams. Front 7 of this defense is deficiant.d

[HHURRICANE]

Re: Pat's............comments


No, i don't know what games your watching, but our Defense is making average running back look like superstars. The offense score 17 points, the defense allowed 4 rushing touchdowns on long drives. Including one drive were the raiders gain a first down on third and 5, then was moved back on holding, third and 15 they ran the same play again and picked up the 15 yards. The defense is garbage. The problem is simple, if the bills fall behind they will lose, because the defense can't stop teams from running out the clock. If they have a lead, then the Seconday which is great when teams are forced into throwing has a good chance of beating teams. Front 7 of this defense is deficiant.d

Your 2 for 2!! Your on a roll!!

[Patrick76777]

Totally agree. Even though our O sucks the D deserves the blame as well. They are not a clutch unit. I have watched them blow their share of games for us dating back to the romp at KC on SNF 3 years ago or the Jacksonville game last year which in the end cost us the playoffs. They collaspe at the most critical times.
We are smack dab in the middle of defensive rankings.
-I think all the defense talk about being great makes the defense a bigger disappointment in the eyes of the fans, but if you’re in the middle of the pack and only giving up 19.7 points a game (which also ranks in the middle), You’ve got to expect your offense to pick up some of the slack and put some points on the board.

T.O.P.
Someone mentioned how the D can’t get off the field. Sure they can’t get off the field, but when your O is going 3 and out on almost every drive of the game, not only does it wear a D out Physically but it drains them mentally also.

Offense getting all of my blame?
In the world of Internet message boards it’s usually all or none. I fully blame the defense for being terrible at stopping the run. But it’s unacceptable to have the 3rd worst offense behind San Fran and Houston when you have Willis McGahee, Eric Mounds and Lee Evans.

4 or 5 plays.
If our offense can make just a few more plays, we beat NO and Atlanta. The O was terrible in those games and still we were right in the game.

[camelcowboy]

Your 2 for 2!! Your on a roll!!

Thanks, I only hope the D can prove me wrong on Sunday night, but our team even when the defense was great, SUCKS durring prime time.

[camelcowboy]

We are smack dab in the middle of defensive rankings.
-I think all the defense talk about being great makes the defense a bigger disappointment in the eyes of the fans, but if you’re in the middle of the pack and only giving up 19.7 points a game (which also ranks in the middle), You’ve got to expect your offense to pick up some of the slack and put some points on the board.

T.O.P.
Someone mentioned how the D can’t get off the field. Sure they can’t get off the field, but when your O is going 3 and out on almost every drive of the game, not only does it wear a D out Physically but it drains them mentally also.

Offense getting all of my blame?
In the world of Internet message boards it’s usually all or none. I fully blame the defense for being terrible at stopping the run. But it’s unacceptable to have the 3rd worst offense behind San Fran and Houston when you have Willis McGahee, Eric Mounds and Lee Evans.

4 or 5 plays.
If our offense can make just a few more plays, we beat NO and Atlanta. The O was terrible in those games and still we were right in the game.

Patrick once again your disapointing me, Defense is middle in the rankings because teams don't need to throw on us because they can run. Their milking the clock. Sometimes a drive that takes 8 mins off the clock can be just as good as a scoring drvie. Last week we were 29th vs the run, and number 1 against the pass. Thats were we get the average rank. If our defense could stop dante Stallworth, or Vick we could have won those games. This defense can't get off the field on third downs.. Listen we are in agreement, offense sucks, Defense sucks. Offense needs to stick with the run. Rest the Defense and control the clock, Defense needs to stop giving up third and long. Maybe if we didn't blitz everydamn play.

[Luisito23]

Only ahead of Houston and San Francisco!!!!!!!!!


Pathetic...simply pathetic.........




GO BILLS!!!!!!!!

[Patrick76777]

Your 2 for 2!! Your on a roll!!
Wrong, He’s being closed-minded and lacks vision.

The defense surely deserves a good portion of the blame but based on all the preseason talk about being great, they’re taking way too much heat.

You can’t objectively look at an offense averaging 238 yard and 16 points a game and not think that they deserve a TON of the blame.


By the way, You don’t need glasses, Those are the actual numbers. 238 yards a game. I’m embarrassed to even post it. Especially since Willis accounts for 93 of those yards simply running the ball. That means that the rest of the offense is averaging 145 yards a game. SAD!

[HHURRICANE]

[quote=Patrick76777]We are smack dab in the middle of defensive rankings.
-I think all the defense talk about being great makes the defense a bigger disappointment in the eyes of the fans, but if you’re in the middle of the pack and only giving up 19.7 points a game (which also ranks in the middle), You’ve got to expect your offense to pick up some of the slack and put some points on the board.

T.O.P.
Someone mentioned how the D can’t get off the field. Sure they can’t get off the field, but when your O is going 3 and out on almost every drive of the game, not only does it wear a D out Physically but it drains them mentally also. [quote]

Let me help you out here. Oakland got the ball with over 8 minutes left in the 4th Quarter and I believe we had all of our time outs. We needed to 2 scores to tie the game up. Now I don't believe anybody felt that we were going to do this but we had the time if the D played tough. Instead the Raiders held the ball for over 7 minutes, made us burn all of our time outs and ended up scoring a TD. Did you watch the game? The D sucks. I would have graduated with a minor is statistics from UB but they eliminated it as a major all together. Stats mean nothing.

[Patrick76777]

[quote=Patrick76777]We are smack dab in the middle of defensive rankings.
-I think all the defense talk about being great makes the defense a bigger disappointment in the eyes of the fans, but if you’re in the middle of the pack and only giving up 19.7 points a game (which also ranks in the middle), You’ve got to expect your offense to pick up some of the slack and put some points on the board.

T.O.P.
Someone mentioned how the D can’t get off the field. Sure they can’t get off the field, but when your O is going 3 and out on almost every drive of the game, not only does it wear a D out Physically but it drains them mentally also.

Let me help you out here. Oakland got the ball with over 8 minutes left in the 4th Quarter and I believe we had all of our time outs. We needed to 2 scores to tie the game up. Now I don't believe anybody felt that we were going to do this but we had the time if the D played tough. Instead the Raiders held the ball for over 7 minutes, made us burn all of our time outsn and ended up scoring a TD. Did you watch the game. The D sucks. I would have graduated with a minor is statistics from UB but they eliminated it as a major all together. Stats mean nothing.

Of course nobody thought we could do it Even the defense knew we couldn’t do it.


Why do you refuse to blame the 30th ranked offense?

I think that’s what’s blowing me away.

[camelcowboy]

[quote=HHURRICANE]

Of course nobody thought we could do it Even the defense knew we couldn’t do it.


Why do you refuse to blame the 30th ranked offense?

I think that’s what’s blowing me away.

I maybe close minded, and lack vision. That must make you close minded with really poor reading comprehension. I said both unit deserve blame, but you shouldn't defend the defense because they are just as poor as the offense.

[Patrick76777]

Hold up Camel man!

MB arguments can get out of control quickly because you miss things. In reading back over the thread it appears that we both blame the other side of the ball. Only it appears that you’re blaming the defense more and I’m blaming the offense more.

It just seemed that we were heading in a bad direction where I thought you were saying it was all defense and you thought I was saying it was all offense.


We can disagree about which side of the ball deserves most of the blame but we agree that both sides are not holding up their end of the deal.

[HHURRICANE]

[quote=HHURRICANE]

Of course nobody thought we could do it Even the defense knew we couldn’t do it.
Why do you refuse to blame the 30th ranked offense?
I think that’s what’s blowing me away.

This is a ridiculous argument. Our offense had just scored at the beginning of the 4th quarter. We were only down by 7. On the next possesion the Raiders marched down the field and put the game out of reach. Again, did you watch the game? The D sucked! Than with 8 minutes left the Raiders kept the ball for fricken 7 minutes running on every play. We knew they were running. And MM has the nerve to whine about the Raiders not taking a knee. My buddies and I were cheering because we had wasted another Sunday rooting for the Bills down here in Atlanta and wanted the D embarrassed.

[Patrick76777]

[quote=Patrick76777]

I maybe close minded, and lack vision. That must make you close minded with really poor reading comprehension. I said both unit deserve blame, but you shouldn't defend the defense because they are just as poor as the offense.
I wrote my last post before I read this. That last post explains it.

[Patrick76777]

[QUOTE=HHURRICANE][quote=Patrick76777]

Again, did you watch the game? QUOTE]
Yes Hurricane, I did watch the game. I’ve watched every single Bills game beginning to end since 1987 when I was 11 years old. That’s 18 seasons of never missing a game and only missing a handful of plays.

And I’ve got to tell you that even when we got within 7, I still had no confidence that we would win that game.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I'm very disappointed in the play on both sides of the ball.

I can't believe we can't throw it better, and I can't believe how poorly the D plays against the run.

[camelcowboy]

Hold up Camel man!

MB arguments can get out of control quickly because you miss things. In reading back over the thread it appears that we both blame the other side of the ball. Only it appears that you’re blaming the defense more and I’m blaming the offense more.

It just seemed that we were heading in a bad direction where I thought you were saying it was all defense and you thought I was saying it was all offense.


We can disagree about which side of the ball deserves most of the blame but we agree that both sides are not holding up their end of the deal.

Naw Pat we're cool, Any anger you see from me is that fact that i see no improvement from this team since TD has taken over.

[Patrick76777]

I'm very disappointed in the play on both sides of the ball.
I can't believe we can't throw it better, and I can't believe how poorly the D plays against the run.
Agreed! And on offense, although I don’t think they run the ball as much as they should, we still have moved the ball on the ground. I think my biggest problem is the constant 4 to 7 yard passes. I’m not asking for bombs, but whatever happened to 20-30 yard crossing patterns? Then never throw down the middle of the field. It’s so frustrating.

I mean, we’re down to the Raiders late, and the Raiders are most likely playing a defense to stop the big play. Which means they’re willing to give up that middle of the field stuff and still we’re throwing 5 to 7 yard passes.

[colin]

we haven't had a 200 yard passing game in 11 straight games, and our last 300 yard passing game was at jacksonville in 03 (when we were 2-0, greggggggggg's last year).

our D has been the best in that period (03,04) and is starting to fall apart now, but losing only a couple guys brought us down, so adding a couple of guys should fix our D (add spikes, a DT or 2, and a young safety and we are back in the top 5 or so).

our O has been god awful for a long long time now. our O line does have problems, but our O as a whole is much worse. there are about 10-15 o lines worse than ours in the NFL (as demonstrated by our running game, we can do somethings right on O), but our passing game is just too bad. i've been blaming JP and so on, but it goes much much deeper.

carolina, green bay, with the injuries dallas (certainly last year), miami, and a few other teams have not good to bad O lines, but can still pass the ball.

we have at the very least average skill players, and i'd say better than average, yet we can't get anything done.

i put most of the blame on clements. we didn't even try play action last week on the road in oakland, we have just been running plays that don't give us a chance to win, and once we were behind we still played for the tie

[camelcowboy]

Agreed! And on offense, although I don’t think they run the ball as much as they should, we still have moved the ball on the ground. I think my biggest problem is the constant 4 to 7 yard passes. I’m not asking for bombs, but whatever happened to 20-30 yard crossing patterns? Then never throw down the middle of the field. It’s so frustrating.

I mean, we’re down to the Raiders late, and the Raiders are most likely playing a defense to stop the big play. Which means they’re willing to give up that middle of the field stuff and still we’re throwing 5 to 7 yard passes.

Yeah, im getting pretty pissed at third and 12 and throwing it to a tightend running a 5 yard curl.

[Novacane]

we suck on both sides of the ball

[Buckets]

I have a question. Why is it that when a D spends 40 min. on the field they are wearing down, what's happening to the opposing teams offense? Are they the Eveready rabbit or something? Sure the Bills O goes 3 and out sometimes but it's the D's job to see that the opposing team also goes 3 and out.

Right now this team sucks on both sides of the ball.

[camelcowboy]

I have a question. Why is it that when a D spends 40 min. on the field they are wearing down, what's happening to the opposing teams offense? Are they the Eveready rabbit or something? Sure the Bills O goes 3 and out sometimes but it's the D's job to see that the opposing team also goes 3 and out.

Right now this team sucks on both sides of the ball.

Im sure the opposing offense is a little tired too, but they also are pumped, because they are man handling the Defense.

[chubluv]

we suck on both sides of the ball

I agree !!! We have to stick with the run its our bread & butter right now and it seems our coaches for some reason get away from it once we are losing by 7 points.

On defence it seems like we are monsters on 1st & 2nd down then all of a sudden they dont show up for 3rd down.. I just dont understand the zone defence on every 3rd down with the CB's playing 7-10 yrds off the WR when its 3rd & short. Any idiot can see that and throw a quick pass for the first down. And most of all STOP LETTTING THEM RUN THE BALL UP THE MIDDLE ALL OVER YOU !!!

[Earthquake Enyart]

Agreed! And on offense, although I don’t think they run the ball as much as they should, we still have moved the ball on the ground. I think my biggest problem is the constant 4 to 7 yard passes. I’m not asking for bombs, but whatever happened to 20-30 yard crossing patterns? Then never throw down the middle of the field. It’s so frustrating.

I mean, we’re down to the Raiders late, and the Raiders are most likely playing a defense to stop the big play. Which means they’re willing to give up that middle of the field stuff and still we’re throwing 5 to 7 yard passes.
Our OL can't hold the rush out long enough to run a 20-30 yard pattern.

[justasportsfan]

I have to agree that the D is partly to blame. Last year through the 1st 7 games , we scored 16.5 ppg. That's w/ a better D and ST scoring as well.

This year , we are averaging 16 ppg and 4 of those games a rookie was playing qb.



Here's the interesting part.

opponents :(through 7 games)

year rush att total yds ave ypg Time of poss. /game
2004 194 579 97 31.04
2005 218 1113 159 29.04

It's weird that opponents actually have the ball less(TOP per game) this year compared to last year but the yards are :idunno:


Discliamer: stats don't paint an entire picture. we have to consider qb's and strangths of teams we faced this year and last year.

[LtBillsFan66]

1) I agree with you Pat.
2) The offense never mentioned being the best offence in history like the Defense said they were after.

[Patrick76777]

Our OL can't hold the rush out long enough to run a 20-30 yard pattern.
I disagree. The O-line is being made the scapegoat again. IMO, it’s all play calling! It only takes a second to throw those 20-30 yard passes.