Last year, we held on to the playoff pipedream too long....

[OpIv37]

We need to learn from last year. Bledsoe started because we were winning and had a shot at the playoffs. Well, we didn't make the playoffs and we set JP's development back half a season. Let's learn from our mistakes and just accept the fact that this team isn't going to make the playoffs. Even if we win out, NE could still take the division from us, and the wild card race is going to be too tight for us to sneak in.

We need to start JP NOW. It's time to start building for the future. I don't care if we don't win another game as long as players like Losman, Evans, Parrish, Peters, and Crowell start to show improvement that we can take into next season.

Well, let me clarify: If we lose, I'll still be pissed after the games. But in the long run, 11-5 is no different than 3-13 if you're not in the playoffs. I'd rather see these young guys develop than keep Holcomb in only to fall 2 games short of the playoffs again.

[OpIv37]

bump

[RedEyE]

At this point I have to agree with you. I hope the Mularkey has the sense to make the switch back, but my gut tells me that Holcomb starts at least 4 more games.

[RedEyE]

They could take advantage of the next two weeks to prepare the kid.......but will they?

[OpIv37]

They could take advantage of the next two weeks to prepare the kid.......but will they?

that's why this is the perfect time to put him back in- he can get two weeks of practice reps with the first team.

But who knows if they'll use the opportunity. Mularkey and TD haven't exactly been on my list of "People making smart decisions" lately.

[Meathead]

ok, i agree on starting losman now but i ain't gonna allow you to say we hung on too long last year.

let me say this as gently and warmly as possible - have you lost your frikken latino (or is it latina, no latino) mind?!? they bills were crushing people last year during their run. they were a smokin' machine. granted, the season ending collapse was the worst choke in team history (yes it was, don't even go there), but the run was magnificent.

even knowing what I know now I'd rather have that run than jp sucking ass last year. yes, we'd probably have more wins now, but that was some fun-ass football for a long time. i enjoyed it, especially since i've learned to blank my mind out from that last game.

what were we talking about again?

[OpIv37]

ok, i agree on starting losman now but i ain't gonna allow you to say we hung on too long last year.
let me say this as gently and warmly as possible - have you lost your frikken latino (or is it latina, no latino) mind?!? they bills were crushing people last year during their run. they were a smokin' machine. granted, the season ending collapse was the worst choke in team history (yes it was, don't even go there), but the run was magnificent.
even knowing what I know now I'd rather have that run than jp sucking ass last year. yes, we'd probably have more wins now, but that was some fun-ass football for a long time. i enjoyed it, especially since i've learned to blank my mind out from that last game.
what were we talking about again?


Ok I have to admit the end of last year was fun- it's kind of coming from a hindsight perspective. The Bills didn't make the playoffs, and as such it would have been better to get JP experience last year as long as we weren't getting in.

Of course, last year wasn't this year. We're not going to make another run like we did with this impossible schedule. It's time to throw in the towel for this season and play JP. Will Mularkey do that? I doubt it, but that's what SHOULD be done for the future of this franchise.

(oh and for the record, my wife is Latina but I'm, well, white I guess- Irish, Italian and German. I was surprised as you to find out that this kind of marriage is legal in Virginia).

[BillsFever21]

The difference in making a run last year and making one this year is we had a cupcake schedule and a defense and ST's that went wild.

Neither of the three are happening this year. We have a tough schedule, our defense is sucking and our ST's aren't getting TD's.

[justasportsfan]

Giving up when the odds are stacked against you is always the easy way out for you , huh OP ? Throw in the towel. :shakeno:

I agree w/ putting Jp in there but don't give up. Are you sure you're not part french?



:jk:

[Tinboy]

I'm a firm beliver that this year shedule will only benefit JP development.

Let's go with JP, perhaps we will some game at the end of the season.

[OpIv37]

Giving up when the odds are stacked against you is always the easy way out for you , huh OP ? Throw in the towel. :shakeno:
I agree w/ putting Jp in there but don't give up. Are you sure you're not part french?
:jk:

well the problem with playing when the odds are against you is that you usually LOSE- that's why the odds are against you. Sure, there's always the chance for a miracle, but you can't take that chance every time. We took that chance last year, and all it did was cost JP development time and give us fans false hopes for this year.

This time, we need to take a long-term perspective. Keeping Holcomb in to win an extra 2 or 3 games this year isn't going to get us into the playoffs or help us in the future. Playing JP will, because he will either develop into a starting-caliber QB or we'll know we need to keep looking. But either way we're better off doing that than having him as a big question mark on the bench.

[Pride]

As I said before. You play your heart out as long as you have a chance. Right now, the bills have a chance!

Quitting on the season now has more of an effect that people realize. Putting JP in tells the other 52 guys that we are quitting on the season. That is the easiest way for players to not show up to game... As long as the belief is that we have a chance... the guys will show up to play!

[OpIv37]

As I said before. You play your heart out as long as you have a chance. Right now, the bills have a chance!

Quitting on the season now has more of an effect that people realize. Putting JP in tells the other 52 guys that we are quitting on the season. That is the easiest way for players to not show up to game... As long as the belief is that we have a chance... the guys will show up to play!

what makes you think they believe they have a chance now? We lost to the Saints and Raiders, and still have to play KC, SD, Denver and NE again.

[HHURRICANE]

The difference in making a run last year and making one this year is we had a cupcake schedule and a defense and ST's that went wild.

Neither of the three are happening this year. We have a tough schedule, our defense is sucking and our ST's aren't getting TD's.

Totally right!! START JP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[justasportsfan]

Sure, there's always the chance for a miracle, but you can't take that chance every time. wrong, when there's hope or a chance you grab that oppurtunity. I couldn't care if Shane Mathews was in there. You play to win. You play to win and not play just for the sake of showing up. We obviously don't share the same philosophy when I say" When the odds are against you you fight to survive. You don't just lay down and die."

[BillsFever21]

As I said before. You play your heart out as long as you have a chance. Right now, the bills have a chance!

Quitting on the season now has more of an effect that people realize. Putting JP in tells the other 52 guys that we are quitting on the season. That is the easiest way for players to not show up to game... As long as the belief is that we have a chance... the guys will show up to play!

Wanna know how bad we are? We are only 1 game ahead of the Texans, Cardinals and San Fransico. They both have 6 losses.

I guess these guys are still in the playoff hunt too. There is a chance that the 49ers and Cardinals could end the season with a better record then us. Their schedule is easier then ours.

Scary isn't it? But I forgot we're gonna finish 7-1 and make the playoffs while jumping ahead of 5 other teams who are currently ahead of us in the WC race or make up 2+ games on the Patriots and win the division.

Even the Dolphins are ahead of us.

10-6 might not even be good enough to make the playoffs. It might even take 11-5.

[HHURRICANE]

As I said before. You play your heart out as long as you have a chance. Right now, the bills have a chance!

Quitting on the season now has more of an effect that people realize. Putting JP in tells the other 52 guys that we are quitting on the season. That is the easiest way for players to not show up to game... As long as the belief is that we have a chance... the guys will show up to play!

I usually agree with your posts however not here!! I am not sure that if we had just stuck with JP to begin with that we would not have the exact same record!! Holcomb scored 16 points against a banged up secondary. And yes, he had time to throw. Put JP in and maybe he beats the Chiefs which might be the spark this team needs!!

[justasportsfan]

what makes you think they believe they have a chance now? We lost to the Saints and Raiders, and still have to play KC, SD, Denver and NE again. In case you missed it, the AFCE sucks. Maybe w/ your logic, Denver should've given up after they lost to the fins.

Oh and tell takeo he's stupid for playing his best every game when he played for the bengals. He should've given up since every game he played had no chance.

[OpIv37]

wrong, when there's hope or a chance you grab that oppurtunity. I couldn't care if Shane Mathews was in there. You play to win. You play to win and not play just for the sake of showing up. We obviously don't share the same philosophy when I say" When the odds are against you you fight to survive. You don't just lay down and die."

you're missing a big piece of the puzzle- what you call "fighting to survive" is damaging to the futue. Forget about NOW for a second and think about next season or the season after- preferably ones where we won't be 3-5 at week 8.

[AndreReed83]

I don't know if Losman could have started last year, with the broken leg and all. It might have done him more permanent harm to get out there and play, instead of helping him.

[Meathead]

oh you’re latino alright. you’re infected now.

just ask yourself these questions:

- do you like tacos, burritos, and chicken mole?
- do you have an insatiable urge to make your car ride one inch off the ground?
- do you like your woman like you like your picante - thick and sassy?
- do you like to overdress for the job you have?
- do you think jlo‘s ass is too small?
- when was the last time you were on time for something?
- do you like sparkly things?

uh huh. i thought so.

[justasportsfan]

you're missing a big piece of the puzzle- what you call "fighting to survive" is damaging to the futue..how so? Are you telling me giving up is a better option? If any player had the same logic you do, I wouldn't want him here in the future in the first place. The jets went o-4 and came back to make playoffs. It's a good thing they never listened to you.


Forget about NOW for a second and think about next season or the season after- preferably ones where we won't be 3-5 at week 8. Once we identify the players who like Spikes gave his best when w/ the bengals, our future will be bright.

the Patriots who won three sb's even when the odds were against them. I'd rather learn from that instead of your example. The pats make your logic crazy. They should've given up especially in the first sb when the odds were against them all the way to the sb.

[BillsFever21]

how so? Are you telling me giving up is a better option? If any player had the same logic you do, I wouldn't want him here in the future in the first place. The jets went o-4 and came back to make playoffs. It's a good thing they never listened to you.

Once we identify the players who like Spikes gave his best when w/ the bengals, our future will be bright.

the Patriots who won three sb's even when the odds were against them. I'd rather learn from that instead of your example. The pats make your logic crazy. They should've given up especially in the first sb when the odds were against them all the way to the sb.

Playing JP isn't giving up on the season. We probably would've also went 2-2 while JP has been on the bench. Who knows how his development could've been by now. He may have given us a better chance for the rest of the season.

He would've been much further ahead after these last 4 games. And he also doesn't turn the ball over 2+ times a game.

[justasportsfan]

Playing JP isn't giving up on the season. We probably would've also went 2-2 while JP has been on the bench. Who knows how his development could've been by now. He may have given us a better chance for the rest of the season.

He would've been much further ahead after these last 4 games. And he also doesn't turn the ball over 2+ times a game.
Read my post. I'm all for JP coming in but not because we gave up on the season. He comes in expecting/playing to win and not just developing. That's the attitude I want coming from him and any of our players. Na, sitting him down IMO was not a bad move. He would've been dead and his confidence shattered. I'm pretty sure he benefited from watching Holcomb especially when it cmes to composure in the pocket. He tends to panic and I think he learned that from his predecessor.

[OpIv37]

- do you like tacos, burritos, and chicken mole?- guilty
- do you have an insatiable urge to make your car ride one inch off the ground?- hell no
- do you like your woman like you like your picante - thick and sassy?- guilty
- do you like to overdress for the job you have? hell no
- do you think jlo‘s ass is too small? guilty
- when was the last time you were on time for something? guilty
- do you like sparkly things? guilty when drunk

ok guess I'm getting there.

[Meathead]

- do you have an insatiable urge to make your car ride one inch off the ground?- hell no

you are in some serious denial my friend.

what does this do for you, huh? makes you hungry for a little carjack action, don't it? little homesick feeling to, eh.

http://www.chimayomuseum.org/images/58ChevyImpalaHardtop.jpg

[OpIv37]

you are in some serious denial my friend.
what does this do for you, huh? makes you hungry for a little carjack action, don't it? little homesick feeling to, eh.
http://www.chimayomuseum.org/images/58ChevyImpalaHardtop.jpg
lmao- the problem is that they're terrible about fixing potholes and a lot of driveways/parking lots are really steep.

If I had a car like that I'd have to repaint the bottom of it every weekend.

[Meathead]

that's the price of being latino, mi hermano

[HHURRICANE]

In case you missed it, the AFCE sucks. Maybe w/ your logic, Denver should've given up after they lost to the fins.

Oh and tell takeo he's stupid for playing his best every game when he played for the bengals. He should've given up since every game he played had no chance.

I am sure glad that I saved my money, went to college, built my career, started my business instead of taking on a live for today attitude. Unless the world is ending soon I'd like to develop a real winner. TD thought we had a real playoff team 3 years ago. We don't. The chemistry is bad and the coaching is bad. Too many over the hill veterans on this team. "Kelly Holcomb, Super Bowl MVP" is not going to be announced in my lifetime. So let's cut bait and work on the future.

[BillsFever21]

I am sure glad that I saved my money, went to college, built my career, started my business instead of taking on a live for today attitude. Unless the world is ending soon I'd like to develop a real winner. TD thought we had a real playoff team 3 years ago. We don't. The chemistry is bad and the coaching is bad. Too many over the hill veterans on this team. "Kelly Holcomb, Super Bowl MVP" is not going to be announced in my lifetime. So let's cut bait and work on the future.

But you could've made more money working at a job at that time then taking the chance and developing your career for the future.

[justasportsfan]

I am sure glad that I saved my money, went to college, built my career, started my business instead of taking on a live for today attitude. Unless the world is ending soon I'd like to develop a real winner. TD thought we had a real playoff team 3 years ago. We don't. The chemistry is bad and the coaching is bad. Too many over the hill veterans on this team. "Kelly Holcomb, Super Bowl MVP" is not going to be announced in my lifetime. So let's cut bait and work on the future.you just made my point. You did what you had to do and did your best which led you to where you are now. Isn't that what Spikes did. He played his heart out even though he knew the team wouldn't go anywhere and now he is one of the best OLb there is in the entire league is he not? Have you read my post on JP?

[AngryTeste]

We need to learn from last year. Bledsoe started because we were winning and had a shot at the playoffs. Well, we didn't make the playoffs and we set JP's development back half a season. Let's learn from our mistakes and just accept the fact that this team isn't going to make the playoffs. Even if we win out, NE could still take the division from us, and the wild card race is going to be too tight for us to sneak in.

We need to start JP NOW. It's time to start building for the future. I don't care if we don't win another game as long as players like Losman, Evans, Parrish, Peters, and Crowell start to show improvement that we can take into next season.

Well, let me clarify: If we lose, I'll still be pissed after the games. But in the long run, 11-5 is no different than 3-13 if you're not in the playoffs. I'd rather see these young guys develop than keep Holcomb in only to fall 2 games short of the playoffs again.

Well said. I am a Jets fan and have faced similar situations. Buffalo, and the rest of the league, could learn something from the Giants QB move. They tanked their season last year to give the kid experience, and it has paid off. Now that Buffalo has Losman, they can concentrate on building a line to protect their QB...something they haven't had in years. Losing games doesn't sell tickets THIS year, but it allows you to evaluate the talent under JP's guidance and adjust for next year. McGahee has offered a new dimension to Buffalo that won't be fully utilized if teams are just gonna stack the box to stop the run (like with the Jets). He had an outstanding game against NE, and the discredit begins with the line failing to pick up the guy who smeared Holcomb (along with the 4 yard pass on 4 and 8).

I know it's a business, and selling tickets is the bottom line for the FO. But the bottom line to successful organizations is finding a way to win. People will still go to see the Bills this year if JP is at the helm. You will watch another horrible season (like me and the Jets), and build on this future franchise QB. If Buffalo's intentions were such that JP was supposed to be their future, then they need to allow him to go through the growing pains that first year starters go thru (I know he was here last year, but no starts).

I always felt the Bills FO does a great job, much better than the Jets, but keeping JP on the sideline is not only intellectually ******ed, but will cripple a salary cap for a QB that isn't expected to start.

Put JP in.
Put Brooks Bollinger in.

This just in....Dan Marino still hasn't won a Superbowl!

[gr8slayer]

Hey guys. Im as big a Bills fan as the next person but we need to start being realistic. Some of you sound like the fools from Fin Heaven.

We need to realize that we are simply not a playoff team this year.

Lets say that an act of god resulted in a playoff birth. Would it really be worth giving up a years worth of learning (Losman) only to get blown away in round one (see Colts vs. Broncos last year)?

The way I see it is; if were going to lose lets at least get something out of our losses. Put Peters, Losman, Preston, and Gesinger (sp?) in and lets start the re-building process.

Alot of you may disagree but I dont think that Donahoe is the right fit here in Buffalo. Sure the guy drafts well 90% of the time and can evaluate player talent pretty well but where has it all gotten us? We have been the joke of the NFL for too long. Its time to get going again. Early 90's style.

[HHURRICANE]

Hey guys. Im as big a Bills fan as the next person but we need to start being realistic. Some of you sound like the fools from Fin Heaven.

We need to realize that we are simply not a playoff team this year.

Lets say that an act of god resulted in a playoff birth. Would it really be worth giving up a years worth of learning (Losman) only to get blown away in round one (see Colts vs. Broncos last year)?

The way I see it is; if were going to lose lets at least get something out of our losses. Put Peters, Losman, Preston, and Gesinger (sp?) in and lets start the re-building process.

Alot of you may disagree but I dont think that Donahoe is the right fit here in Buffalo. Sure the guy drafts well 90% of the time and can evaluate player talent pretty well but where has it all gotten us? We have been the joke of the NFL for too long. Its time to get going again. Early 90's style.

I'm with you!!

[Meathead]

and now a word from our sponsor, the Wonderthong ...

http://img.jenniferlopez.net/jlo/pics/jennifer-lopez/lopez_ass.sized.jpg

[OpIv37]

Alot of you may disagree but I dont think that Donahoe is the right fit here in Buffalo. Sure the guy drafts well 90% of the time and can evaluate player talent pretty well but where has it all gotten us? We have been the joke of the NFL for too long. Its time to get going again. Early 90's style.

the problem is that Donahoe lacks an overall philosophy. He's good at evaluating talent (examples: McGahee, Evans, Peters, McGee come immediately to mind) and knowing when to let players go (usually: Winfield, Henry, Price). But he has yet to fit players to a system and is too willing to take a better player over a position of need. That's why we have tons of guys who can play the 3rd receiver slot but no depth on o-line or d-line.

Donahoe needs to go.

[gr8slayer]

the problem is that Donahoe lacks an overall philosophy. He's good at evaluating talent (examples: McGahee, Evans, Peters, McGee come immediately to mind) and knowing when to let players go (usually: Winfield, Henry, Price). But he has yet to fit players to a system and is too willing to take a better player over a position of need. That's why we have tons of guys who can play the 3rd receiver slot but no depth on o-line or d-line.
Donahoe needs to go.
I honestly think that overall Donahoe has been near perfect except in one department. The only problem is this department is the most important in all of football. This department gives your WR that one extra second to make one little move that allow him to get downfield. This department gives your young, scard ****less QB one extra second to realize that the WR has made the one extra move. This department makes D's quiver at the thought of a running game, which makes them stack the line to allow your WR to get his route run and your QB time to realize that the route has been run. What is this department you ask?























I know the suspense is killing you by now....

































................
























THE MOTHER FRIGGIN OL

[Meathead]

is that hair creeping up her thigh

[justasportsfan]

the problem is that Donahoe lacks an overall philosophy. He's good at evaluating talent (examples: McGahee, Evans, Peters, McGee come immediately to mind) and knowing when to let players go (usually: Winfield, Henry, Price). But he has yet to fit players to a system and is too willing to take a better player over a position of need. That's why we have tons of guys who can play the 3rd receiver slot but no depth on o-line or d-line.
Donahoe needs to go.my problem w/ TD is that he keeps hiring unproven coaches who can piece the talent he put together.

[Drive 4 Five]

As I said before. You play your heart out as long as you have a chance. Right now, the bills have a chance!

Quitting on the season now has more of an effect that people realize. Putting JP in tells the other 52 guys that we are quitting on the season. That is the easiest way for players to not show up to game... As long as the belief is that we have a chance... the guys will show up to play!

It's simple really. Our record is what? 3-5? Holcomb stays in until we have lost seven games because at that point, we will have no shot of making the playoffs.

[Meathead]

http://www.thomz.com/cons/y2002/million/million_art/jlo.gif

[Stewie]

I agree that we should start Losman immediately, but 11-5 is way, way different than 3-13. Try getting a Mike Williams to take a paycut for a 3-13 team. Or getting free agents to accept a fair contract from a 3-13 team.