You know what stinks about the doom and gloomers?

[Patrick76777]

You know what stinks about the doom and gloomers?

If they’re wrong, we can’t rub it in. They’ll be happy! But if we don’t make the playoffs, they’ll say, “see, told you so”

[BAM]

Most of the reason I think more than half of them portray this attitude is to have the ability to come back and say exactly that... I told ya so. It's pathetic and I still find it hilarious.

[LtBillsFan66]

I fall somewhere in the middle, but you're right. The whole thing last week about "proving the Bills can beat the Pats" before they stepped foot on the field made me come to realize that there is no convincing these people anything. I mostly read the football threads and don't contribute because what's the sense?

[RedEyE]

I'll assume this was semi-directed in my direction because of what I posted in your last, much similar thread.

First of all, let me start by saying that I have never cheered on an opposing team facing Buffalo on game day. That's not too far from treason in my book.

The dilemma is that this team is freaking the same mediocre team since just after the Titans pulled off the Immaculate Reception. I don't know about you but I'm tired of it.

When I see other coaches that TD could have hired, the same coaches that are succeeding quite well around the league, using less talent then what the Bills currently have on the roster, then I tend to get a litttle fired up. The style of coach that TD continues to recuit is crap. And the plain truth is that they just aren't winning football games.

I don't want to go forward watching the same **** another 3, 4, 5 to 7 seasons. That's not to say I won't, but man it's freaking heart wrenching. I guess if you keep signing OCs and DCs that odds are you are eventually going to strike gold and pull anther Marv Levy out from your ass, but when there are already proven prospects lingering for a job, flying in for interviews. How in the hell do you let them walk away without doing everything in your power to get the winner to stay?

As a dedicated Bills fan. One and the same that dresses his 6 month old daughter in Bills gear on Sunday, I'm tired of the mediocrity. This team has far too much talent to be playing at this level. Something should and needs to be corrected. And I don't see it with MM. Unfortuantely, he'll be here until he shows us how really bad things can get.

While in the past, losing would send me into a tailspin for 2 days to a week, this season when the Bills lose I feel numb. Like I've just seen the hot substitute teacher....standing and peeing in the mens room urinal.

Bottom line is, I want to win. If that works with Holcomb, then great. I'll back him all the way. My spidey senses are tingling here and they're telling me that Holcomb is the guy for the Bills need to rely on for a playoff berth. I'm so sure of it Pat, that if the Bills DO make the playoffs this season, I will buy you a Bills Throwback jersey of your choice....just so you can tell me that you told me so.

As always Go Buffalo!

[LtBillsFan66]

I hear what you're saying too Red. That's why I fall in the middle. When we fail to execute plays in preseason and the eternal optomists dismiss it as "only preseason", it bothers me just as much as people willing to throw in the towel before midseason.

[X-Era]

You know what stinks about the doom and gloomers?

If they’re wrong, we can’t rub it in. They’ll be happy! But if we don’t make the playoffs, they’ll say, “see, told you so”

I for one, merely looked at the tablet we have etched so far this year and see:

30th in passing
terrible in rush D
3 and 5 record

Take your eyes of the tablet, look up at the sky, and see whatever color you like.

I dont dwell too much on impending doom, or perceptions of the sky being gloomy.

I just look at the facts and they aint that pretty. One that IS is the #5 RB in the league.

[TacklingDummy]

I just look at the facts and they aint that pretty. One that IS is the #5 RB in the league.

Did ya happen to look and see who the #5 QB is in the AFC?

Bills are ranked 30th in passing because of those 2 games of 75 yards passing for your hero.

[BSXIII]

Did ya happen to look and see who the #5 QB is in the AFC?
Bills are ranked 30th in passing because of those 2 games of 75 yards passing for your hero.

Exactly. Losman has a long, long ways to go before he's even a mediocre QB in this league. It's more than just "taking his bumps". His teammates and coaches both saw it and that's why he's on the bench. This team wanted a caretaker at QB, and Holcomb has done that well. Losman was the 4th QB taken in the draft, he's far from being a sure thing in the league.

[justasportsfan]

I'll assume this was semi-directed in my direction because of what I posted in your last, much similar thread.

First of all, let me start by saying that I have never cheered on an opposing team facing Buffalo on game day. That's not too far from treason in my book.

The dilemma is that this team is freaking the same mediocre team since just after the Titans pulled off the Immaculate Reception. I don't know about you but I'm tired of it.

When I see other coaches that TD could have hired, the same coaches that are succeeding quite well around the league, using less talent then what the Bills currently have on the roster, then I tend to get a litttle fired up. The style of coach that TD continues to recuit is crap. And the plain truth is that they just aren't winning football games.

I don't want to go forward watching the same **** another 3, 4, 5 to 7 seasons. That's not to say I won't, but man it's freaking heart wrenching. I guess if you keep signing OCs and DCs that odds are you are eventually going to strike gold and pull anther Marv Levy out from your ass, but when there are already proven prospects lingering for a job, flying in for interviews. How in the hell do you let them walk away without doing everything in your power to get the winner to stay?

As a dedicated Bills fan. One and the same that dresses his 6 month old daughter in Bills gear on Sunday, I'm tired of the mediocrity. This team has far too much talent to be playing at this level. Something should and needs to be corrected. And I don't see it with MM. Unfortuantely, he'll be here until he shows us how really bad things can get.

While in the past, losing would send me into a tailspin for 2 days to a week, this season when the Bills lose I feel numb. Like I've just seen the hot substitute teacher....standing and peeing in the mens room urinal.

Bottom line is, I want to win. If that works with Holcomb, then great. I'll back him all the way. My spidey senses are tingling here and they're telling me that Holcomb is the guy for the Bills need to rely on for a playoff berth. I'm so sure of it Pat, that if the Bills DO make the playoffs this season, I will buy you a Bills Throwback jersey of your choice....just so you can tell me that you told me so.

As always Go Buffalo!No one gave the pats a chance to win their first sb. They were going in as a wildcard w/ a 2nd yr. qb and Anoine Smith as their rb.

I doubt the bills will follow in their footsteps but "it's always better to have tried and lost than to have never tried at all and wonder
"what if " for the rest of your life.

[OpIv37]

I fall somewhere in the middle, but you're right. The whole thing last week about "proving the Bills can beat the Pats" before they stepped foot on the field made me come to realize that there is no convincing these people anything. I mostly read the football threads and don't contribute because what's the sense?

you know, you need to learn to ****ING READ- it wasn't PROVING- it was providing some EVIDENCE as to WHY you felt that way. I had plenty of evidence SUGGESTING (note: not PROVING) why the Bills would lose- ie struggles in primetime games, struggles in road games, NE after the bye, etc- no one came up with any similar evidence SUGGESTING the Bills could win.

[OpIv37]

Exactly. Losman has a long, long ways to go before he's even a mediocre QB in this league. It's more than just "taking his bumps". His teammates and coaches both saw it and that's why he's on the bench. This team wanted a caretaker at QB, and Holcomb has done that well. Losman was the 4th QB taken in the draft, he's far from being a sure thing in the league.

this team wanted a "caretaker QB" based on the fact that we had a good D. Holcomb is great as a caretaker, but he's not gonna win games on his own and neither is Losman. That's why it's time to play Losman- if the rest of the team steps up, we'll win with either one. If we're not winning, might as well groom Losman.

[chernobylwraiths]

I agree with much of Red's post.

My take is that Holcomb is a better QB right now and gives us a better chance to win now. It doesn't however suggest that the Bills CAN'T win with Losman. While we do have a chance at winning the East still, it is far from a very good chance. I would like to play Losman more AND win now, why does that seem so impossible? Given MM's love of trick plays, I can't believe he hasn't tried to get JP onto the field a little more in certain situations.

As much as I want to win now, I don't want to be that team that refuses to allow the young players to get much action until the last minute and never get a good long look at them.

[Jan Reimers]

You know what stinks about the doom and gloomers?

You mean besides their having every right to be pessimistic, given the perpetual state of disarray that has gripped this team for the past 6 years, including the present mishandling of Losman, the decline of the defense, and the abomination that passes for our offensive line?:cry:

[The Outsider]

You know what stinks about the doom and gloomers?

If they’re wrong, we can’t rub it in. They’ll be happy! But if we don’t make the playoffs, they’ll say, “see, told you so”

You think the outsider enjoys being a perennial joke of the NFL homeboy?

The outsider dont need to throw any more salt in the wounds and rub it in when this team gets another top 5 draft pick for the kool aid man to waste on 'the best player available'

The outsider is not a homer and his eyes are wide open....you need to become a realist and quit talking delusional nonsense about playoffs and division titles...ain't happenin jack!

[BillsFever21]

You think the outsider enjoys being a perennial joke of the NFL homeboy?

The outsider dont need to throw any more salt in the wounds and rub it in when this team gets another top 5 draft pick for the kool aid man to waste on 'the best player available'

The outsider is not a homer and his eyes are wide open....you need to become a realist and quit talking delusional nonsense about playoffs and division titles...ain't happenin jack!

Agree. I've often wondered what it's like to live your life behind a pair of dark red and blue blinders.

[LtBillsFan66]

you know, you need to learn to ****ING READ- it wasn't PROVING- it was providing some EVIDENCE as to WHY you felt that way. I had plenty of evidence SUGGESTING (note: not PROVING) why the Bills would lose- ie struggles in primetime games, struggles in road games, NE after the bye, etc- no one came up with any similar evidence SUGGESTING the Bills could win.
Oh yeah. You're the one who thinks there is a difference between the words evidence and proof. My bad. I should have remembered that. BTW, what's your address? I have the dictionary I bought for you. I just need to know where to send it.

[casdhf]

How can anyone proove something that hasn't happened yet?

[LtBillsFan66]

How can anyone proove something that hasn't happened yet?
Ask OP.

[OpIv37]

How can anyone proove something that hasn't happened yet?
jesus ****ing christ, people don't ****ing read around here. NOT PROOF- EVIDENCE. It;s not the SAME ****ING THING. A reason for THINKING LIKE YOU DO. I had REASONS for thinking the Bills would lose to the Pats. You can't just say "I think the Bills will win" with no REASON behind it- that's all I was looking for, and no one answered it.

It's like I'm talking to a bunch of menopausal females- all the opinions in the world with absolutely no reasoning behind any one of them.

[OpIv37]

Oh yeah. You're the one who thinks there is a difference between the words evidence and proof. My bad. I should have remembered that. BTW, what's your address? I have the dictionary I bought for you. I just need to know where to send it.

Proof requires evidence but not all evidence is proof. OJ's glove is evidence SUGGESTING he was at the murder scene, but it doesn't PROVE his guilt on his own. Mark Fuhrman's racism is EVIDENCE that he might frame OJ, but isn't PROOF of a frame-up on it's own.

[LtBillsFan66]

The bottom line is you wanted evidence (or proof since they mean the exact same thing) as to why we thought the Bills could beat the Pats. You wouldn't accept the "any given Sunday" thing. You wouldn't accept maybe the Pats have an off day, Willis does great, etc. SO WTF DO YOU WANT AS EVIDENCE, PROOF, ETC.

You are the worst... fan.... ever....

[LtBillsFan66]

Proof requires evidence but not all evidence is proof. OJ's glove is evidence SUGGESTING he was at the murder scene, but it doesn't PROVE his guilt on his own. Mark Fuhrman's racism is EVIDENCE that he might frame OJ, but isn't PROOF of a frame-up on it's own.
Evidence and proof mean the same thing.

Have you been taking English lessons from Dora?

[casdhf]

oh, my evidence was the fact that they were winning for 90% of the game. Is that close?

[OpIv37]

The bottom line is you wanted evidence (or proof since they mean the exact same thing) as to why we thought the Bills could beat the Pats. You wouldn't accept the "any given Sunday" thing. You wouldn't accept maybe the Pats have an off day, Willis does great, etc. SO WTF DO YOU WANT AS EVIDENCE, PROOF, ETC.
You are the worst... fan.... ever....

those are slogans. Fact: the Bills struggle in night games. Evidence suggesting they win would be something like; Fact: the Pats also struggle in night games, the Bills can run against their D, something like that

Not "any given Sunday"- that says nothing about either team or how they play in the particular game situation which my "evidence" (not proof since you can't prove something that hasn't happened yet) had.

[LtBillsFan66]

oh, my evidence was the fact that they were winning for 90% of the game. Is that close?
No. Op won't accept that.

[OpIv37]

oh, my evidence was the fact that they were winning for 90% of the game. Is that close?

oh then you must be psychic. This conversation took place BEFORE the game.

[casdhf]

you suppose the players think that way?

[OpIv37]

No. Op won't accept that.
yeah, he obviously knew it 4 days before the game when we had the whole evidence/proof conversation.

[LtBillsFan66]

those are slogans. Fact: the Bills struggle in night games. Evidence suggesting they win would be something like; Fact: the Pats also struggle in night games, the Bills can run against their D, something like that

Not "any given Sunday"- that says nothing about either team or how they play in the particular game situation which my "evidence" (not proof since you can't prove something that hasn't happened yet) had.
But you forget one small detail.

THEY HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GOD DAMN GAME YET!

Maybe you get your "evidence" from a crystal ball?

Of so, give me some "evidence" of the next winning lotto #s.

[casdhf]

come on, get a grip. This isnt math or science. You can't out think random plays and good execution. Any given sunday is the most logical explination for every single play.

[LtBillsFan66]

you suppose the players think that way?
Yeah. They sit around their lockers befuddled that they can't find any evidence that suggests that they have a chance to win. They wonder why they are even suiting up.

[BillsFever21]

those are slogans. Fact: the Bills struggle in night games. Evidence suggesting they win would be something like; Fact: the Pats also struggle in night games, the Bills can run against their D, something like that

Not "any given Sunday"- that says nothing about either team or how they play in the particular game situation which my "evidence" (not proof since you can't prove something that hasn't happened yet) had.

When people start saying "Any given Sunday" and "They might have an off day" right there shows how much the team sucks.

I wonder if the Colts use them slogans. By saying that you are admitting we suck and would be fortunate to win.

A good team can go out and take care of their business by their play on the field.

Some have been watching too many Al Pacino movies.

[LtBillsFan66]

When people start saying "Any given Sunday" and "They might have an off day" right there shows how much the team sucks.

I wonder if the Colts use them slogans. By saying that you are admitting we suck and would be fortunate to win.

A good team can go out and take care of their business by their play on the field.

Some have been watching too many Al Pacino movies.
There is no question that the Pats are a better team.

That doesn't mean it's an automatic win for the Pats though.

So how do you "find evidence" that the Bills could win?

Get it?

The mental deficiencies of you pessimistic fans is so clear.

[OpIv37]

But you forget one small detail.
THEY HAVEN'T PLAYED THE GOD DAMN GAME YET!
Maybe you get your "evidence" from a crystal ball?
Of so, give me some "evidence" of the next winning lotto #s.

Mother ****er- evidence SUGGESTS how the game will go, it doesn't PROVE how it will go. None of that stuff I said PROVED we would lose, but it certainly provided a significant basis for THINKING we would lose. Nothing you guys who thought we would win said did that.

You want evidence on the next lotto numbers? Well, don't pick 66 if the possible numbers don't go above 65, don't pick the same numbers that won the last few times because its' statistically unlikely that they'll come up again- not that they can't, but history and statistics suggest they WON'T. You can't PROVE what the next lotto numbers will be, but if you use historical and statistical EVIDENCE, you can improve your chances.

[LtBillsFan66]

Mother ****er- evidence SUGGESTS how the game will go, it doesn't PROVE how it will go. None of that stuff I said PROVED we would lose, but it certainly provided a significant basis for THINKING we would lose. Nothing you guys who thought we would win said did that.

You want evidence on the next lotto numbers? Well, don't pick 66 if the possible numbers don't go above that, don't pick the same numbers that won the last few times because its' statistically unlikely that they'll come up again- not that they can't, but history and statistics suggest they WON'T. You can't PROVE what the next lotto numbers will be, but if you use historical and statistical EVIDENCE, you can improve your chances.
Evidence and proof mean the same thing.

Did you look it up yet?

[justasportsfan]

Proof requires evidence but not all evidence is proof. OJ's glove is evidence SUGGESTING he was at the murder scene, but it doesn't PROVE his guilt on his own. Mark Fuhrman's racism is EVIDENCE that he might frame OJ, but isn't PROOF of a frame-up on it's own.Show me any proof or evidence with the Pats first sb. I dare you. 2nd yr. qb. Antione Smith.

Here's another, Argentina becoming basketball world champs.

Let's use you analogy, what proof did those people who won the lotto have to bilieve that they would win?

[OpIv37]

Show me any proof or evidence with the Pats first sb. I dare you.
Show me someone stating that the Pats could win the Super Bowl in the absence of any facts or evidence (NOT PROOF- we're not trying to PROVE anything here, just defend our reasons for thinking a certain way).

There is uncertainly involved, and since it is EVIDENCE and not PROOF, it's not going to be correct 100% of the time or even a large percentage of the time. But until the Bills show something on the field that SUGGESTS they can make the playoffs, I believe they can't.

[justasportsfan]

Show me someone stating that the Pats could win the Super Bowl in the absence of any facts or evidence (NOT PROOF- we're not trying to PROVE anything here, just defend our reasons for thinking a certain way). .
however you want to put it, show anyting that the pats did in regular season that lead you to believe that they would win the sb the first time they did. Nevermind, you just backtracked w/ the next statement

There is uncertainly involved, and since it is EVIDENCE and not PROOF, it's not going to be correct 100% of the time or even a large percentage of the time. But until the Bills show something on the field that SUGGESTS they can make the playoffs, I believe they can't. That logic is only applicable to other teams but not the bills. Whatever.

You are up to bat and Johan Santana is pitching to you . Evidence shows that you aren't even good enough to make it to a highschool team therefore there is no way you are going to hit any of his pitches. Are you telling me you are gonna walk off the field before he even throws his first pitch so can can develop for next year? Your logic tells me, you would.

[BillsFever21]

Here is some PROOF for the two of you. Maybe you can quit bickering about it now.

Evidence suggests that something can/has happened. Proof is conclusive information that PROVES it did.

http://www.becomingcloser.org/Supper/page31.htm

If, as has happened to me, you have been summonsed for jury duty, you may have the privilege of serving on a trial jury. At the beginning of this proceeding, the judge (or some videotape) will explain the difference between evidence and proof. Proof is conclusive; no doubt remains. Evidence is something which points to a conclusion but which, in itself, is not proof.
Now, most of us find it absolutely necessary to pass through our daily lives working on evidence. We cannot prove the job will be there tomorrow -- but we have good evidence, and so we continue working in the hope of a paycheck. The Christian faith works the same way. It is based on evidence, which is what you would expect of the truth. It is not based on proof. If it were, there could be no doubt; if doubt were not possible, faith would be unnecessary. And without faith it is impossible to please God.

In our daily Christian walk, then, we turn the evidence of Christ (which is very solid) into the working, day to day principle that we call hope. That trusting in the evidence, and the Lord it presents, is faith. Hope is based on faith, and hope then becomes the working principle of our lives -- or should so become.
Confused? Let me give you a walking example. I have faith that my wife is faithful to me. There's a lot of evidence for that (starting with the fact she's put up with me for so long). But there is no way I could prove that she's faithful; indeed, even to make the attempt would so wound her that it would damage our relationship. So I take the evidence I have, turn it into practical hope, and go through life blithely assuming her fidelity. Hope becomes the ground work for action.

[OpIv37]

however you want to put it, show anyting that the pats did in regular season that lead you to believe that they would win the sb the first time they did. Nevermind, you just backtracked w/ the next statement
That logic is only applicable to other teams but not the bills. Whatever.
You are up to bat and Johan Santana is pitching to you . Evidence shows that you aren't even good enough to make it to a highschool team therefore there is no way you are going to hit any of his pitches. Are you telling me you are gonna walk off the field before he even throws his first pitch so can can develop for next year? Your logic tells me, you would.

Irrelevant example. Why? Because in this particular example, what would I gain by walking away? NOTHING. In the case of the Bills, they do have something to gain by walking away: a QB that's ready for next year

And as far as the Patriots thing- no one was saying they could win the SB in the first year. People here WERE saying that the Bills could beat the pats. When I asked why, the best they could do was "Any given Sunday"- please.

[BillsFever21]

Here's an example:

Christopher Columbous had evidence in him own mind that the world was round when others suggested otherwise and thought they would fall off the earth. It wasn't till Columbous went out and PROVED that his evidence was correct till they knew for sure.

If someone is dead and the police find evidence of foul play by a blood spot on the wall and they feel they have their murderer. It isn't PROVEN till they get the DNA samples back.

They have evidence he was the murderer but they couldn't prove it till they got the DNA samples.

If a girl you have been boning for months ends up pregnant there is evidence that you could be the father. There isn't proof you're the father till the blood test come back positive.

[justasportsfan]

Irrelevant example. Why? Because in this particular example, what would I gain by walking away? NOTHING. In the case of the Bills, they do have something to gain by walking away: a QB that's ready for next year
And as far as the Patriots thing- no one was saying they could win the SB in the first year. People here WERE saying that the Bills could beat the pats. When I asked why, the best they could do was "Any given Sunday"- please.
Okay, let's say you don't walk away. I'm almost sure you won't swing .Not once. Why bother, the odds are against you, WHY EVEN TRY . You're logic not mine.

Bullcrap. the odds were against the Patriots going into the playoffs that year. By your logic they shouldn't even try. :D.

I have evidence and proof (whichever you want) that teasm always have a chance to beat the defending champion no matter how bad the team is.. Want me to pull those FACTS out?

[BillsFever21]

There is no question that the Pats are a better team.

That doesn't mean it's an automatic win for the Pats though.

So how do you "find evidence" that the Bills could win?

Get it?

The mental deficiencies of you pessimistic fans is so clear.

Same with the deficiencies of you homers who live in your own little world.

If you seem so sure how about we make a wager. I'll bet you $100 the Bills won't make the playoffs. Put up or shut up.

[justasportsfan]

Same with the deficiencies of you homers who live in your own little world.

If you seem so sure how about we make a wager. I'll bet you $100 the Bills won't make the playoffs. Put up or shut up.have you ever bought a lotto ticket? Don't lie.

[BillsFever21]

have you ever bought a lotto ticket? Don't lie.

Of course. When you buy a lottery ticket any normal person doesn't expect to win and realize that they probably won't. About the same with our odds of winning the division.

If you guys treat everything like the Bills then you have your millions spent before you win it.

[BSXIII]

I think expecting Losman to magically develop into a superstar QB just by getting playing time, and making a significant difference next year is a far bigger stretch than expecting this years team to win the East.

[justasportsfan]

Of course. When you buy a lottery ticket any normal person doesn't expect to win and realize that they probably won't. About the same with our odds of winning the division.

If you guys treat everything like the Bills then you have your millions spent before you win it. The bills have a better chance of making playoffs than you winning the lotto. That's a FACT but yet you still continue to contradict yourself by way of your actions. Oh well.

You can give up on the players all you want. Chances are we won't make playoffs but I won't apologize to you or anyone that likes to surrender when there is a chance. Even when Losman comes in, he plays to win, not DEVELOP.

[OpIv37]

I think expecting Losman to magically develop into a superstar QB just by getting playing time, and making a significant difference next year is a far bigger stretch than expecting this years team to win the East.

I don't know if he will get better by playing or not. I do know that he WON'T get better by watching. I've been watching football since I was 11 years old and I still can't throw for ****. If he is ever going to develop, he will need playing time. Why not let him get it now while we're pretty much screwed as it is?

[LtBillsFan66]

Same with the deficiencies of you homers who live in your own little world.

If you seem so sure how about we make a wager. I'll bet you $100 the Bills won't make the playoffs. Put up or shut up.
I'm not a homer.

I have the same arguments with the unwavering optimists.

Nice to label me though. You fake fan.

[ParanoidAndroid]

You know what stinks about the doom and gloomers?

If they’re wrong, we can’t rub it in. They’ll be happy! But if we don’t make the playoffs, they’ll say, “see, told you so”

It's called a "defense mechanism."

[BillsFever21]

I'm not a homer.

I have the same arguments with the unwavering optimists.

Nice to label me though. You fake fan.

Yeah, fake fan. Why because I'm not a :homer: like you. I'm a realist and if this team sucks I'm not afraid to say it and don't care what everyone else thinks.

I haven't been wrong about them for the last 3 years. You have been wrong for the last 3 years though.

[justasportsfan]

I don't know if he will get better by playing or not. I do know that he WON'T get better by watching. ? you have facts or is that just your opinion. At least come up w/ some kind of evidence that you are right because I have evidence that you could be wrong too.



I've been watching football since I was 11 years old and I still can't throw for ****.
maybe because you don't even try. With your "why even try" attitude , I'm not surprised you're not Flutie. The guy shouldn't even bother. He's too short.


If he is ever going to develop, he will need playing time. Why not let him get it now while we're pretty much screwed as it is? because we don't have players that quit like you do and I'm glad. :king:

[justasportsfan]

Yeah, fake fan. Why because I'm not a :homer: like you. I'm a realist and if this team sucks I'm not afraid to say it and don't care what everyone else thinks.

I haven't been wrong about them for the last 3 years. You have been wrong for the last 3 years though.you're not being a realist when you buy your lotto tickets . You're being a :homer: but you keep doing it anyways :snicker:

[BillsFever21]

you're not being a realist when you buy your lotto tickets . You're being a :homer: but you keep doing it anyways :snicker:

It's called taking a big chance for a big reward. I haven't bought a lottery ticket in 2 years.

The only gambling I do are with football bets and pools and I do quite well.

[OpIv37]

you have facts or is that just your opinion. At least come up w/ some kind of evidence that you are right because I have evidence that you could be wrong too.


yeah, sure, there are the Ryan Leifs and Rob Johnsons as evidence that not all players get better with time on the field. Plenty of evidence the other way too. So, if JP gets on the field and improves, we'll know we have our man for the future. Even if he's not spectacular- as long as he's learning from his mistakes and improving steadily, we're set. If he shows zero improvement or even slips as the season goes on, we'll know we need QB help. Either way, we're better off cuz at least we know.

[BillsFever21]

The bills have a better chance of making playoffs than you winning the lotto. That's a FACT but yet you still continue to contradict yourself by way of your actions. Oh well.

You can give up on the players all you want. Chances are we won't make playoffs but I won't apologize to you or anyone that likes to surrender when there is a chance. Even when Losman comes in, he plays to win, not DEVELOP.

A realist doesn't expect to win because they know their odds are slim. Some around here sound like they think they actually have a good chance.

[Novacane]

The mods should just ban realistic posters from this board so the homers don't have to deal with us raining on their dream

[justasportsfan]

Plenty of evidence the other way too. So you could be wrong. Next time don't make it look like you know for sure. Brady never took a snap and he learned watching Drew. So there goes you logic AGAIN.

[justasportsfan]

It's called taking a big chance for a big reward. I haven't bought a lottery ticket in 2 years.

The only gambling I do are with football bets and pools and I do quite well.So is going out there and playing your heart out even when the odds are against you. So you call yourself a realist when talking about the bills odds but don't see how much of a bigger homer you are when you buy a lotto ticket. :roflmao:

[justasportsfan]

A realist doesn't expect to win because they know their odds are slim. Some around here sound like they think they actually have a good chance.Actually you just described a quitter. :snicker:

[LtBillsFan66]

Quitters make me sick.

BillsFever and OpIv remind me of France.

[BAM]

So many quitters in here. It's disgusting. You all make me sick.

Actually you really don't bother me one bit, but that's the cliche I'm going with. You're actually all quite hilarious

[LtBillsFan66]

I hate them BAM.

[BAM]

If they only knew how pathetic they all looked. It's one thing to make a point about it every so often when the occasion arises, another thing to be obsessed with it. Put down the internet and step outside for a little bit, it'll be OK. LOL

[OpIv37]

So you could be wrong. Next time don't make it look like you know for sure. Brady never took a snap and he learned watching Drew. So there goes you logic AGAIN.

WRONG AGAIN. None of the people who said the Bills could beat the Patriots came up with any evidence at all. I admitted before the Pats game that I could be wrong, but the evidence suggested we had no chance. No one responded with any contrary evidence.

[justasportsfan]

So many quitters in here. It's disgusting. You all make me sick.

Actually you really don't bother me one bit, but that's the cliche I'm going with. You're actually all quite hilarious Op's cool , the arguments are nothing personal on my side . Just don't agree with his way of thinking. They like to quit, I don't.

[justasportsfan]

WRONG AGAIN. None of the people who said the Bills could beat the Patriots came up with any evidence at all. I admitted before the Pats game that I could be wrong, but the evidence suggested we had no chance. No one responded with any contrary evidence.there was no evidence that the fins could beat the pats last year. There was no evidence that the pats could win their first sb and instead you come up with "uncertainty" excuse all of a sudden when asked to explain because you don't have any so called evidence:shakeno:. evidence does not make it fact. You play the game until it becomes a fact. You on the other hand want to quit before it even starts.

[BAM]

Op's cool , the arguments are nothing personal on my side . Just don't agree with his way of thinking. They like to quit, I don't.

I hear you. He's borderline obsessing over it though lately.

Silly kids.

[justasportsfan]

I hear you. He's borderline obsessing over it though lately.

Silly kids.
hence, wys jr.

[BAM]

Got evidence?

[justasportsfan]

Got evidence?
nope, but I have proof.

[fabolouspaul]

If they only knew how pathetic they all looked. It's one thing to make a point about it every so often when the occasion arises, another thing to be obsessed with it. Put down the internet and step outside for a little bit, it'll be OK. LOL

Hey Bam, maybe you shouldn't allow the quitters to view your highlight videos?

[LtBillsFan66]

No one can top wys.

[justasportsfan]

No one can top wys.wait til' Op threatens to bust your knee caps and you might change your mind.

Besides, it was right about this time since wys first posted that he became obssesed w/ his constant negativity. There's still hope for Op, I won't quit on him. I have faith in him. The odds are against him but there's still that chance :D.

[BAM]

Hey Bam, maybe you shouldn't allow the quitters to view your highlight videos?

There'd be about 5 people allowed to view them.. LOL

[Patrick76777]

No one can top wys.


Remember how that dude sent me a PM saying he was going to take out my ACL if I came near him!

The best part is that I had him on Ignore so the PM didn’t go thru. I didn’t get it until months later.

I just imagined walking to the Zone Tailgate not knowing that he was out for blood and having this dude do some kind of roundhouse leg chop to my knee. I never would have saw it coming.

[Novacane]

That would have been funny :bad:

[X-Era]

Yeah, fake fan. Why because I'm not a :homer: like you. I'm a realist and if this team sucks I'm not afraid to say it and don't care what everyone else thinks.

I haven't been wrong about them for the last 3 years. You have been wrong for the last 3 years though.

To me its a bit simpler. The QB spot has been a problem on this team since Kelly. Why do I say that? because NONE of them have done really anything here.

Just because a player is SB worthy doesnt mean he can do it on ANY team. It is a team effort afterall. However, if a player is NOT SB worthy, it doesnt matter what team he is on, it aint gonna happen.

I think Drew is an example of a SB worthy QB who would NEVER have taken THIS team there. We dont have the SB HC, the great o-line, and the experienced WR's (at least not as many). Notice I left the D out of this. However, I believe that Drew could go to and win a SB with Dallas based on their decent D, great o-line and all world coach. He would NEVER have been in that situation here.

Therefore: Drew and many other QB's are NOT the answer here. What is then? Good question. I think its a QB like Kelly who DID take this team to the SB. Why was he different? Well, many felt he had a LB's mentality yet was a QB. There are some others that had success like that Favre, Young are a few. On this team, we need a QB whos leadership and mental toughness can make up for some of the types we seem to get. Thurman, Bruce Smith, Reed, Ruben and even Moulds have done there share of whining. Whether its contract, etc...They also have shown a lack of mental toughness from time to time. So who steps up and keeps them playing well enough to win when that happens? MM? Why would they listen what has he won as a HC? On a team like Dallas, Parcells speaks and the players listen so Drew doesnt have to. Was it Marv back in the day? hell no. It was Kelly. If we are gonna have an inexperinced HC, you better have a QB who will yell and scream to keep the team playing well. That works, but only when the team learns to respect him. Eric Moulds will never listen to JP, wont happen. Will Moulds keep quiet while Losman steps up as a leader? Maybe. I think our past 10 years of guys who werent leaders ought to be enough evidence that it doesnt work here. Unfortunately Kelly H is another one of those guys.

Is Kelly good enough to win games? yeah...some. But he isnt a bigtime leader and simply doesnt have SB quality talent. Facts are facts, we dont have the supporting team to go to the SB anyways, despite a average QB. Holcomb has proved nothing to anyone even on this team. To me he has only proved to be better than Losman right now. But I feel he is a FAR FAR cry from being good enough to lead a team thats playing average at best to the playoffs much less than the SB.

To me the KH issue is SO similar to the guys who clamored that AVP was all we needed. How did we end up that year?

Im not saying to be eternally pessimistic, what I am saying is we have been basically smacked in the head for a decade with the "quiet types" at QB who cant get it done for us, arent the bruises worth anything? The most frustrating part is that we have a guy on the bench who looks like he could develop the talent to be a SB QB and ALREADY HAS the type of attitude that is so important to THIS team. Yet hes still on the bench, we still are 30th in the league in passing, KH is 25th behind guys like Carr, Orton, Aaron Brooks, Gus Ferrote, even Trent Dilfer in TD's thrown, he is not even in the top 30 as far as yards thrown with guys like Ferrotte, McCown, Anthony Wright, and again Trent Dilfer above him.

But hes all we need? Dont let a thing like evidence get in the way of a good dream. Is he effecient? yes. But is he ability to move the ball ins hort spurts but not score TD's good enough? not even close, ask the team that was 3 to 0 in a game going into the half that they DOMINATED the Pats in. If we had what we REALLY need in that game, we should have been 10 or 17 to 0 at that point and the Pats wouldnt have caught up. NUFF SAID!

[X-Era]

So many quitters in here. It's disgusting. You all make me sick.

Actually you really don't bother me one bit, but that's the cliche I'm going with. You're actually all quite hilarious

I simply WILL NOT quit. I will always root for the Bills.

If anything Im quitting on the types that claim the next Difler is all we need at QB. Thats my issue. If it aint Holcomb, who the hell is and when exactly do we want to get started on getting to and winning the damn SB?

I love the game, I love my Bills, but I got a serious feeling it wont be this year. Thats it in a nutshell, enjoy a beer with me, lets enjoy the games, save the I told ya so's, I just want us to get on track as soon as possible. I dont care who or with who.