I keep seeing the title to this thread:

[OpIv37]

and I don't know if I should laugh or cry

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=84868

[X-Era]

and I don't know if I should laugh or cry

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=84868

Ill play, Im taking cry.

Tell ya why. If ever there was a year where we could take our struggles while starting our QB youngster and still have a shot at the playoffs for as long as possible, it was this year.

In that version its possible that we could have had both. We could have had our now and our future. The playoffs are probably a fantasy for this team no matter what but at least we would have been building toward next year and beyond.

Right now we are stuck on pause with the losing image getting burned into the screen.

You think a team that took a chance on another career backup based on one good game would have learned that it aint good enough here. And we could argue they did by trading up to get Losman. Must be we needed to give up alot to keep our benches warm in Buff. Nothing like having a highly rated prospect bench warmer. I guess thats one defintion of the twelfth man.

[justasportsfan]

It's better than "I give up "threads

[OpIv37]

It's better than "I give up "threads

ok here we go again. We may "technically" still be in the playoff hunt. But we lost our last two games- one by a large margin to an inferior opponent, and one to a weakened opponent when we had a 4th quarter lead. And the combined records of the three teams we beat this season is 6-18.

Possibilities notwithstanding, you can't honestly say we've been playing like a playoff team.

[OpIv37]

and for the last ****ing time, there's a huge difference between giving up and preparing for the future. Unfortunately in this case, attempting to make the playoffs and preparing for the future are mutually exclusive, and if we fail to make the playoffs or prepare for the future this season will be a complete ****ing waste.

[justasportsfan]

and for the last ****ing time, there's a huge difference between giving up and preparing for the future. Unfortunately in this case, attempting to make the playoffs and preparing for the future are mutually exclusive, and if we fail to make the playoffs or prepare for the future this season will be a complete ****ing waste.okay let me rephrase.It's better than "the bills suck" threads created by bills fans. :king:

[OpIv37]

okay let me rephrase.It's better than "the bills suck" threads created by bills fans. :king:

let me ask you this- what if we don't play Losman and still don't make the playoffs? We're gonna be in the exact same situation we were at the start of this year- questionable QB as the starter, inexperienced high-round draft pick on the bench still not developed. So, what purpose will this season have served? No playoffs, no success to build on and nothing done to help us in the future. Doesn't that seem like a bit of a waste of an entire season?

[X-Era]

and for the last ****ing time, there's a huge difference between giving up and preparing for the future. Unfortunately in this case, attempting to make the playoffs and preparing for the future are mutually exclusive, and if we fail to make the playoffs or prepare for the future this season will be a complete ****ing waste.

Im not so sure that the notion that the playoffs and preparing for the future is mutually exclusive. Losman lost 2 of his 3 games to the 2 of the leagues best teams. Holcomb won against 2 of the worst and hasnt won since.

I could argue that a Losman lead team may have went into the half against NE up more than 3 to 0. Why? because Losmans legs mean D's have to keep one more player honest. This opens up guys down field. And, who knows where Losman would be right now as far as poise if he had played all the games leading up to NE.

Its woulda coulda shoulda BS for sure, but we will never know.

IMO, this team would have an almost identical record to what they have now if they had never benched JP at all. Maybe, Maybe Holcomb buys us 1 or 2 more games. Ive said that all along. So, Holcomb goes 7 and 9 instead of 6 and 10. Who the fug cares? we should have just kept JP in. If Moulds didnt want to play for him, we still had Evans, Reed, and now have Parrish back. I would told him, fine then just pretend like your getting the ball to draw coverage your way, well throw to someone who wants to play.

[X-Era]

okay let me rephrase.It's better than "the bills suck" threads created by bills fans. :king:

The Bills do NOT suck.

Cleveland sucks, we just happen to have the same record. Uggghhh.

I will never stop rooting for the Bills, I sincerely hope we go to the playoffs. I just feel Im looking past that. I feel im looking right now at what the fans would feel if we lost in the first round. That will feel NO worse than if we never went at all.

[justasportsfan]

let me ask you this- what if we don't play Losman and still don't make the playoffs? if you read my posts you would've known what my answer is but I'll repeat it to you..... At least we did our best and know for sure instead of playing "what if " which you love doing. Just let the players play and stop guessing.


We're gonna be in the exact same situation we were at the start of this year- questionable QB as the starter, inexperienced high-round draft pick on the bench still not developed. So, what purpose will this season have served? No playoffs, no success to build on and nothing done to help us in the future. Doesn't that seem like a bit of a waste of an entire season? How do you know this for sure. Have you been calling Ms. Cleo?

[X-Era]

if you read my posts you would've known what my answer is but I'll repeat it to you..... At least we did our best and know for sure instead of playing "what if " which you love doing. Just let the players play and stop guessing.

How do you know this for sure. Have you been calling Ms. Cleo?

if you read my posts you would've known what my answer is but I'll repeat it to you..... At least we did our best and know for sure instead of playing "what if " which you love doing. Just let the players play and stop guessing.

So, we were so poor of a talent judge and predictors of success that we sacrificed next years playoff chances as well as this years just to try our best?

In this game, you dont get to just say, "ohh well, at least we tried". I promise you there is not a signle person on this board that wont complain if and IMO when we dont win a SB this year with Holcomb. Its the next step thats the worst. They ALL will say, well if it isnt Holcomb, we might as well have played Losman. Yeah, and....

By no means do you know anything for sure. You will NEVER know where JP would be right now as far as his play if he wasnt benched. Could he have beat Mia and NYJ? I absolutely think so. We will never know.

[OpIv37]

if you read my posts you would've known what my answer is but I'll repeat it to you..... At least we did our best and know for sure instead of playing "what if " which you love doing. Just let the players play and stop guessing.
How do you know this for sure. Have you been calling Ms. Cleo?

you just don't get it.

If we play Losman and he sucks, we'll know he sucks. If we play Losman and he improves, we know we have our man. I'm not Miss Cleo so I don't know which it will be, but I DO KNOW FOR A FACT that by playing Losman, we'll have more knowledge at the end of the season than we did at the beginning.

If we hold onto some ridiculous playoff dream and don't make it, we gain absolutely nothing from this season. The prize may not be the same my way, but at least we're guaranteed to get something out of this season. You'd rather risk it all on the big prize and screw up next season too.

[X-Era]

you just don't get it.

If we play Losman and he sucks, we'll know he sucks. If we play Losman and he improves, we know we have our man. I'm not Miss Cleo so I don't know which it will be, but I DO KNOW FOR A FACT that by playing Losman, we'll have more knowledge at the end of the season than we did at the beginning.

If we hold onto some ridiculous playoff dream and don't make it, we gain absolutely nothing from this season. The prize may not be the same my way, but at least we're guaranteed to get something out of this season. You'd rather risk it all on the big prize and screw up next season too.

To me the ultimate point is that Holcomb can get no better. The team we have today, right now, is what is possible with Holcomb at the helm, it cant get much better. That isnt good enough. That should be the end of the story, but for some reason it isnt.

Losman has upside, Holcomb has only downside.

[justasportsfan]

you just don't get it.
If we play Losman and he sucks, we'll know he sucks. If we play Losman and he improves, we know we have our man. I'm not Miss Cleo so I don't know which it will be, but I DO KNOW FOR A FACT that by playing Losman, we'll have more knowledge at the end of the season than we did at the beginning.
If we hold onto some ridiculous playoff dream and don't make it, we gain absolutely nothing from this season. The prize may not be the same my way, but at least we're guaranteed to get something out of this season. You'd rather risk it all on the big prize and screw up next season too.

YOU don't get it. I'll play what if's. what if JP turns out to be Tim Couch? What if JP pans out but we lose our top payers like Willis. Are you gonna go through life trying to develop players or are you gonna grab every oppurtunity you can. In case you missed it, this is a league that thrives on today and not next year. We may never have this chance again.

While you talk like the bills don't have a chance in hell, the Pats were playing rookies in the playoffs all the way to the sb LAST YEAR because their coach didn't give up on them.

I would hate for you to be my coach. I work my butt of for you every pratice doing it your way and just becuse things haven't gone your way (even though we still have a chance) you bail out on us just so you can see if a player will pan out or not. What about the rest of us who are trying to make something out of a bad situation?

Screw that, I'll go w/ BB who never gives up even if his best players are on IR. The Capt. goes down with the ship but he doesn't intentionally sink the ship.


You're not MS. Cleo but you sure act like her when it comes to this season. There are games to be played. The rest of the AFCE haven't given up on the season but you want to be the first one? I have more respect for finfans who are still hoping to make playoffs .

[bills&sabresmvf]

Yo, OP you have to understad the thinking of an NFL team, they take it week by week, if they have the slimest chance to win they're going to go with Holcomb, enough said. As much as us looking at it would like to not see a waste of a season...that's just how the business goes...it won't happen if we have a chance as frusterating as it is to us fans who'd like to think of the future. The NFL teams don't look to the future during the season, that's just dumb, week by week, I know how cliche that is, but it's truth. As much as I hate your posts, I love to see 'em, You keep these forums going. I'm not being sarcastic, I really enjoy 'em! keep it up

[OpIv37]

YOU don't get it. I'll play what if's. what if JP turns out to be Tim Couch? What if JP pans out but we lose our top payers like Willis. Are you gonna go through life trying to develop players or are you gonna grab every oppurtunity you can. In case you missed it, this is a league that thrives on today and not next year. We may never have this chance again.
While you talk like the bills don't have a chance in hell, the Pats were playing rookies in the playoffs all the way to the sb LAST YEAR because their coach didn't give up on them.
I would hate for you to be my coach. I work my butt of for you every pratice doing it your way and just becuse things haven't gone your way (even though we still have a chance) you bail out on us just so you can see if a player will pan out or not. What about the rest of us who are trying to make something out of a bad situation?
Screw that, I'll go w/ BB who never gives up even if his best players are on IR. The Capt. goes down with the ship but he doesn't intentionally sink the ship.
You're not MS. Cleo but you sure act like her when it comes to this season. There are games to be played. The rest of the AFCE haven't given up on the season but you want to be the first one? I have more respect for finfans who are still hoping to make playoffs .

Hope isn't always a good thing- it blinds people to reality. If Losman is Tim Couch, we need to ****ING KNOW THAT SO WE CAN MOVE ON! I don't understand why you can't grasp that point. And once again, the players on this team are going to be here next year (most of them anyway)- think they want to be going through this QB mess again? And I'm not convinced the players on this team have worked their ass off. They certainly didn't look like they were trying against Tampa Bay or Oakland. When you're 3-5 and almost every player has consistently underperformed, why do you think the players deserve the respect of the coaching staff? The coaches need to show some leadership and say, "look, unless you want to be 3-5 again a year from now, we gotta get this QB thing figured out". Again, I'm NOT saying JP is the answer- I'm saying the only way to find out is to play him.

The Captain can also attempt to salvage whatever parts of the sinking ship he can- unlike sinking ships, football teams have future voyages to account for.

[OpIv37]

also, justa- you seem to forget one important point. This team has to perform a LOT better if we're going to make the playoffs. The run D showed slight signs of improvement against the Pats, but their running game is off this year. The coaching and pass blocking have not improved at all this season. The receivers have only had one good game all year- against NE's depleted secondary.

So not only are we facing the fact that the Bills could win out and still miss the playoffs, we have to overcome our own poor play and make some improvements as well. And as you've probably noticed, adjustments aren't exactly a Mularkey hallmark.

[BidsJr]

So not only are we facing the fact that the Bills could win out and still miss the playoffs,


Not to nitpick but if we win out we will make the playoffs.

But the chances are better that Jim Kelly makes a successful comback this week, than the chances that we win out.

[OpIv37]

Not to nitpick but if we win out we will make the playoffs.
But the chances are better that Jim Kelly makes a successful comback this week, than the chances that we win out.

if we win out and NE wins out except us, we'll have the same record- do we beat them on tiebreakers?

[BidsJr]

We'll be 11-5 we'll surely get a wildcard.

But pigs would be flying.

[Dora The Explorer]

:hump:
hijacked

[justasportsfan]

Hope isn't always a good thing- it blinds people to reality. If Losman is Tim Couch, we need to ****ING KNOW THAT SO WE CAN MOVE ON! I don't understand why you can't grasp that point. And once again, the players on this team are going to be here next year (most of them anyway)- think they want to be going through this QB mess again? And I'm not convinced the players on this team have worked their ass off. They certainly didn't look like they were trying against Tampa Bay or Oakland. When you're 3-5 and almost every player has consistently underperformed, why do you think the players deserve the respect of the coaching staff? The coaches need to show some leadership and say, "look, unless you want to be 3-5 again a year from now, we gotta get this QB thing figured out". Again, I'm NOT saying JP is the answer- I'm saying the only way to find out is to play him.
The Captain can also attempt to salvage whatever parts of the sinking ship he can- unlike sinking ships, football teams have future voyages to account for.
You want us to give up every chance we have to find out if JP is a Farve or a Couch? Even if JP turns out to be a Farve and a few of our players goes down to injury. you'll just give up on Losman and start developing players around him. Whatever.
Maybe that's why you can't throw a football because instead of working at it, you just guessed you couldn't do it and accepted defeat.
We'll never see eye to eye because I don't give up like you do. I compete, you love to guess. When I play basketball I play to win even if one of my teamates goes down to injury. You would've asked for a sub because what's the use ,right?

I'm not sure who's better, a homer finfan who thinks they are winning the sb when there is no chance or bills fans who give up even though there is a chance. Maybe this is why some HOMERS succeed, because they are too stupid to quit that they eventually get there.

[BidsJr]

You want us to give up every chance we have to find out if JP is a Farve or a Couch? Even if JP turns out to be a Farve and a few of our players goes down to injury. you'll just give up on Losman and start developing players around him. Whatever.
Maybe that's why you can't throw a football because instead of working at it, you just guessed you couldn't do it and accepted defeat.
We'll never see eye to eye because I don't give up like you do. I compete, you love to guess. When I play basketball I play to win even if one of my teamates goes down to injury. You would've asked for a sub because what's the use ,right?


There is a difference in competing for the sake of competing, and competing for the chance to be a champion.

[justasportsfan]

There is a difference in competing for the sake of competing, and competing for the chance to be a champion.Now how do you know how far you'll go unless you try. I've given OP examples about people making it despite the odds. Pats in their first sb and last year when they were playing rookies in the playoffs. Don't tell me they were favored against Pitts with rookie cb's playting last year in the playoffs. How about an old midget never giving up hope even though the odds were against him? Don't tell me he's just playing to compete. He plays to win which is why he's still around.

I'll take that midget over Rob who gave up on himslef.

We are not playing just to compete because the rest of the AFCE sucks just like we do.

[BidsJr]

Now how do you know how far you'll go unless you try. I've given OP examples about people making it despite the odds. Pats in thei first sb and last year when they were playing rookies in the playoffs. Don't tell me they were favored against Pitts with rookie cb's playting last year in the playoffs.
We are not playing just to compete because the rest of the AFCE sucks just like we do.


I am not a pessimist. But the 49ers have a chance to compete also. That argument can be made about any team at any time. Your example about the Patriots who had a 2 time SB winning coaching staff, and QB doesn't fly.

They beat the odds by putting players that a 2 time SB winning GM aquired, a 2 time SB winning coach "coached up", and a 2 time winning QB passed to victory.

I'd love to have those odds every year, and I'm sure that the Pats fans do.

[OpIv37]

You want us to give up every chance we have to find out if JP is a Farve or a Couch? Even if JP turns out to be a Farve and a few of our players goes down to injury. you'll just give up on Losman and start developing players around him. Whatever.
Maybe that's why you can't throw a football because instead of working at it, you just guessed you couldn't do it and accepted defeat.
We'll never see eye to eye because I don't give up like you do. I compete, you love to guess. When I play basketball I play to win even if one of my teamates goes down to injury. You would've asked for a sub because what's the use ,right?
I'm not sure who's better, a homer finfan who thinks they are winning the sb when there is no chance or bills fans who give up even though there is a chance. Maybe this is why some HOMERS succeed, because they are too stupid too quit that they eventually get there.

didn't we go over this yesterday? Not every player is a first round draft pick who is supposed to be the future of the franchise. When you invest that much in a player you at least need to commit to him enough to find out what he can do.

If I'm playing in a basketball game and the best teammate goes down, I keep playing because that's a different situation- I'm not ****ing up my future or losing an opportunity by playing.

You don't sacrifice to develop EVERY player, just the ones who are supposed to be the future of the team. We sacrificed a ton of money and a roster spot to keep McGahee. And you don't sacrifice every opportunity- only the ones that the players and coaches have already ****ed up.

You keep making worthless analogies and trying to extend the Losman situation and the team's situation to everything in life. Every player on the team is not like Losman, and situations like a pickup basketball game have nothing to do with the future of the Buffalo Bills.

[BidsJr]

I'm not sure who's better, a homer finfan who thinks they are winning the sb when there is no chance or bills fans who give up even though there is a chance. Maybe this is why some HOMERS succeed, because they are too stupid to quit that they eventually get there.

Can you give us a percentage on the Homers that succeed?

I mean seriously, there are great stories everywhere. For every 1 Lance Armstrong the are 1 millon people who never get there.

What ever happened to results, accountability and forward thinking?

If you want to apply life analogies to football those are some that I'd be looking at first.

[BidsJr]

[QUOTE=BidsJr]What ever happened to results, accountability and forward thinking? QUOTE]

Any profitable buisness has to live and die by these directives. That is unless you live in a Socialist country.

[justasportsfan]

I am not a pessimist. But the 49ers have a chance to compete also. That argument can be made about any team at any time. Your example about the Patriots who had a 2 time SB winning coaching staff, and QB doesn't fly..what are you talking about. 49'ers? Are you kidding me, they are last in their divsion. We are second in ours and the Pats aren't exactly a team that cannot be beat.



They beat the odds by putting players that a 2 time SB winning GM aquired, a 2 time SB winning coach "coached up", and a 2 time winning QB passed to victory.
I'd love to have those odds every year, and I'm sure that the Pats fans do.Brady was a second year qb when he won when their 1st sb and their rb was Antoine Smith. What are you talking about. They were a wild acrd team and went all the way to win the sb because they played the game when people said they couldn't do it.

I doubt we're gonna go anywhere but I'm not gonna tell my players to give up hope just so that we can develop 1 player. That's a sure way to get rid of your players.

Spikes should've never come to buffalo w/ that attitude. He played his best even though he knew the bengals were going no where. Can you explain that? Maybe Spikes is a HOMER like OP calls people who do their best anyways when there is no hope.

[justasportsfan]

Can you give us a percentage on the Homers that succeed?
I mean seriously, there are great stories everywhere. For every 1 Lance Armstrong the are 1 millon people who never get there.
What ever happened to results, accountability and forward thinking?
If you want to apply life analogies to football those are some that I'd be looking at first. Spikes, Flutie, Fletcher, Brady, Zach Thomas, Bulger ,etc. and every player out there who were drafted late but never gave up because people like you and OP said, "you can't do it"

[OpIv37]

justa you want to use your basketball analogy? Fine-

There's 10 minutes left in the game- you're playing a much better team and losing by 25 points. You twist your ankle- it's not so bad that you can't play, but you know you could hurt it worse by playing. So, do you go in and play on the off-chance that your team could come back to win, knowing that you could end up being out for a month? Or do you rest it so you can be ready to play again in a day or two?

What happens if you play, lose by 35, and your ankle swells up to the size of the ball? What did you gain by playing? If you rest, at least you know that you'll be ready to be competitive in the next game.

That's a much better analogy than yours.

[BidsJr]

Spikes, Flutie, Fletcher, Brady, Zach Thomas, Bulger ,etc. and every player out there who were drafted late but never gave up because people like you and OP said, "you can't do it"


You know what that guy in your profile picture needs?

A pair of Rose colored glasses, LMAO.


And you know what? Sometimes someone just can't do it.

You ever fired someone?

[Luisito23]

If Losman is Tim Couch, we need to ****ING KNOW THAT SO WE CAN MOVE ON!
Agreed...


I wanna go confident next year knowing that the QB spot is secure....
I got Holcomb's back even after that pathetic performance last week...
but I was surprised that J.P. was not starting this week....
The kid is basically a rookie, and who's to say we wouldn't have the same or better record with him starting....
but if he continued to look lost, at least we can do something either through the draft or free agency...
I don't want to go into next season with a another ? on the QB.....



GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BillsFever21]

if you read my posts you would've known what my answer is but I'll repeat it to you..... At least we did our best and know for sure instead of playing "what if " which you love doing. Just let the players play and stop guessing.

So, we were so poor of a talent judge and predictors of success that we sacrificed next years playoff chances as well as this years just to try our best?

In this game, you dont get to just say, "ohh well, at least we tried". I promise you there is not a signle person on this board that wont complain if and IMO when we dont win a SB this year with Holcomb. Its the next step thats the worst. They ALL will say, well if it isnt Holcomb, we might as well have played Losman. Yeah, and....

By no means do you know anything for sure. You will NEVER know where JP would be right now as far as his play if he wasnt benched. Could he have beat Mia and NYJ? I absolutely think so. We will never know.

His last 7 passes he went 5-7 for about 50 yards and then they bench him.

He'd be just as good if not better then Holcomb right now had we stayed the course.