Quick question for all of the Holcomb/win now people.

[BidsJr]

What happens if we finish 8-8, win the division and get blown up at Pittsburgh in the first round of the playoffs?

Because we made the playoffs do we stick with Holcomb and build on the performance of this year? Or do we go with the unproven inexperianced backup?

The best chance to win prolly again will be Holcomb, so I guess it would be him then?

[Pride]

If we finish 8-8, we wont make the playoffs... a more likely scenerio is to finish 9-7 or 10-6 to make the playoffs (not likely in that it will happen, but likely in that it will be necessary to make the playoffs as a wild card)

That said... if we finish 9-7 or 10-6... it means that th team came together, and more importantly, beat some HELLISH good teams in doing it! I'd much rather end on a 9-7 note beating the teams we face this season, than the run we made last season against lower tier teams.

9-7 for me would be great! Then you let JP and KH fight it out in camp and preseason.

[bills&sabresmvf]

It's a tough decision, but to be honost a teams thinking is not about the future right now. No matter what we say, they take it week by week. If Holcomb finishes the year, then they'll have a tryout in pre-season for the best quarterback. That's how it goes, even though it's frusterating not to know what we're looking at next year.

[bills&sabresmvf]

you beat me to it Pride

[BidsJr]

Then.......... After finishing 9-7 for the second year in a row, you really think Mularkey and Donahue are gonna sit the QB that got them there for the second time in two years?

If they do and the Bills lose the first game with JP he is on the bench again when all hell breaks loose with the team, fans etc.

If they don't Kelly stays in maybe we finish 7-9, or 9-7 again.

[Pride]

Whats funny is... that all of these people saying put JP in dont realize something.

Just cause JP is playing, doesnt mean that HE is getting better! Not saying he wont.. but it isnt a guarantee.

[OpIv37]

As fun as it would be to finish 6-2, it might be terrible in the long term. I honestly believe that this team is on the wrong track with Donahoe, and if we finish 6-2 nothing will change.

[Pride]

If we finish the year 9-7 after a 1-3 start... that means that Kelly was 8 and 4. Not bad at all considering our defense sucks!

And why not play Kelly next year? Sure, you pay all that money to losman, but you play the better QB... no matter what.

[BidsJr]

Whats funny is... that all of these people saying put JP in dont realize something.

Just cause JP is playing, doesnt mean that HE is getting better! Not saying he wont.. but it isnt a guarantee.


What's really funny is that the people saying keep Kelly in, think that he is all of a sudden turn into a QB that can win games long term.

[Pride]

TD is not going anywhere until after Ralph passes on. Get used to it. Part of the reason he was hired was to take over for Ralph prior to and immediately following Ralph's death.

[OpIv37]

Whats funny is... that all of these people saying put JP in dont realize something.

Just cause JP is playing, doesnt mean that HE is getting better! Not saying he wont.. but it isnt a guarantee.

like I said in another thread- if he plays, at least we'll KNOW, which will make us better off at the end of the season than we were at the beginning. If he sucks, we'll know we need to start making other plans for QB, if he improves, we'll know we're onto something, but at least this season will have served a purpose.

If we leave Holcomb in to make a lame attempt at a playoff spot and we don't make it (which is the more likely outcome), this season will have meant nothing in the long run.

[bills&sabresmvf]

You're exactly right Opiv. I'm afraid if we have another turnaround season, which doesn't look good, that we won't do anything. That's what happened last year, they felt we had enough talent and we'd move on like we did last year. It just didn't work, and our schedule last year was against cake teams. I want them to win, but at the same time I want some strong aquisitions to make this team even better next year!

[BidsJr]

If JP was 4-12 this year and the Bills went 11-5 next year would you still be talking about TD?

[Pride]

What's really funny is that the people saying keep Kelly in, think that he is all of a sudden turn into a QB that can win games long term.

All I know is the fact that last week, on national primetime TV, in Foxboro.. we were winning in the 4th quarter! Call me crazy.... but I never would have expected that... not even prior to the season! He doesnt lose games... if our D was a top 15 ranked D, we would 5-3 instead of 3-5!

[Mr. Cynical]

As fun as it would be to finish 6-2, it might be terrible in the long term. I honestly believe that this team is on the wrong track with Donahoe, and if we finish 6-2 nothing will change.

100% agree. As a fan I want to win, but I also know that that will never happen with TD at the helm. So whatever it takes to get his ass out of here I support.

[OpIv37]

TD is not going anywhere until after Ralph passes on. Get used to it. Part of the reason he was hired was to take over for Ralph prior to and immediately following Ralph's death.

yeah well TD THINKS he's doing a good job and maybe a bad season will be a wake-up call that he's NOT.

[BidsJr]

This season should be for the grooming of a QB, no way we win the SB this year.

IF JP showed no signs of improvement in 16 games, you blow up the FO get rid of Donahoe, Mularkey.

THen draft a QB with our very eary pick.

[BidsJr]

All I know is the fact that last week, on national primetime TV, in Foxboro.. we were winning in the 4th quarter! Call me crazy.... but I never would have expected that... not even prior to the season! He doesnt lose games... if our D was a top 15 ranked D, we would 5-3 instead of 3-5!


All I know is that we still lost, and if we are losing I would rather be doing it with my Young QB at the helm.

[BidsJr]

All I know is that we still lost, and if we are losing I would rather be doing it with my Young QB at the helm.

And then figuring out WTH to do with the future of this team.

[TacklingDummy]

I've said before that I wouldn't be surprised to see Kelly Holcomb start the majority of the bills games this season and for the next 2 seasons.

I doubt higly that the GM is gonna give up on Losman this quick and draft another QB. Unless a could be great one falls in his lap.

[BidsJr]

I've said before that I wouldn't be surprised to see Kelly Holcomb start the majority of the bills games this season and for the next 2 seasons.
I doubt higly that the GM is gonna give up on Losman this quick and draft another QB. Unless a could be great one falls in his lap.


Well if you said that this was your preference I would call you an idiot, but it looks like you are assuming the coaches would make a very, very bad call.

[johnny green balls]

loseman is atrocious. the kid is semi-******ed.

[TacklingDummy]

My preference would be to have a great D and a Peyton Manning like QB. But Buffalo has neither.

JP or KH will never be Manning like. No matter how much any of us hope. I just can't see a organization drafting another QB after they just drafted one 2 years ago. So that's why I see Holcomb starting a majority of the Bills games the next 2 years.

It's gonna get alot worse before it gets better.

[BidsJr]

My preference would be to have a great D and a Peyton Manning like QB. But Buffalo has neither.
JP or KH will never be Manning like. No matter how much any of us hope. I just can't see a organization drafting another QB after they just drafted one 2 years ago. So that's why I see Holcomb starting a majority of the Bills games the next 2 years.
It's gonna get alot worse before it gets better.


It will have to get worse before it gets better, how much worse has to do with JP more than anything else.

[Luisito23]

All I know is that we still lost, and if we are losing I would rather be doing it with my Young QB at the helm.



Agreed.....




GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jpdex12]

All I know is the fact that last week, on national primetime TV, in Foxboro.. we were winning in the 4th quarter! Call me crazy.... but I never would have expected that... not even prior to the season! He doesnt lose games... if our D was a top 15 ranked D, we would 5-3 instead of 3-5!
Who cares if we WERE winning in the fourth quarter, we friggin lost again on national TV. I am not satisfied with being an OK team and pulling out a win every now and then. This club needs to get back to the high level status it once was! I never expected them to be that close either, but that is the same attitude that our players have and that is why they can't get over th ehump and have no confidence. Let's get the swagger back and be that kick ass team that we once were in the early 1990's. Screw 8-8 or 9-7, I want to see double digit wins in consecutive years.

[jpdex12]

If we finish 8-8, we wont make the playoffs... a more likely scenerio is to finish 9-7 or 10-6 to make the playoffs (not likely in that it will happen, but likely in that it will be necessary to make the playoffs as a wild card)

That said... if we finish 9-7 or 10-6... it means that th team came together, and more importantly, beat some HELLISH good teams in doing it! I'd much rather end on a 9-7 note beating the teams we face this season, than the run we made last season against lower tier teams.

9-7 for me would be great! Then you let JP and KH fight it out in camp and preseason.

9-7, Mediocrity??? Why?? How about 12-4?

[jpdex12]

Whats funny is... that all of these people saying put JP in dont realize something.

Just cause JP is playing, doesnt mean that HE is getting better! Not saying he wont.. but it isnt a guarantee.

Don't take this to heart Pride, but how the hell are you going to find out if he's getting better if he's not playing? You're right, there is no guarentee, but you cannot diagnos a QB's future based on 4 starts, so why cut him short?

[jpdex12]

TD is not going anywhere until after Ralph passes on. Get used to it. Part of the reason he was hired was to take over for Ralph prior to and immediately following Ralph's death.

Where did this come from?

[YardRat]

What happens if we finish 8-8, win the division and get blown up at Pittsburgh in the first round of the playoffs?

Because we made the playoffs do we stick with Holcomb and build on the performance of this year? Or do we go with the unproven inexperianced backup?

The best chance to win prolly again will be Holcomb, so I guess it would be him then?

Go into the off season with open competition for the QB spot. If Losman is better than Holcomb, he'll beat him out for the job. If he isn't, then he doesn't deserve to be starting if front of Kelly.

[Iehoshua]

I was going to post something else I've posted 1000 times about how it's a waste to start Holcomb and how JP should play but heck with it. Pointless debate.

Just go get T.O.!!!

[Goldengriff85]

I agree with JPDex12. JP on the bench isn't helping him grow and you can't evaluate how well he may do holding a clipboard. He had an opportunity to learn from a much more season and successful QB last year.

One concern I have is the absolutely terrible play calling and offensive gameplans they've rolled out this season. The coaches are being way too conservative with the passing offense hoping the defense will keep us in games. This is evidenced by the infrequent attempts to throw downfield. We have talented players at the skill positions (WR & RB) yet the only pass play we consistently attempt is a 5 yard out.

[jpdex12]

I agree with JPDex12. JP on the bench isn't helping him grow and you can't evaluate how well he may do holding a clipboard. He had an opportunity to learn from a much more season and successful QB last year.

One concern I have is the absolutely terrible play calling and offensive gameplans they've rolled out this season. The coaches are being way too conservative with the passing offense hoping the defense will keep us in games. This is evidenced by the infrequent attempts to throw downfield. We have talented players at the skill positions (WR & RB) yet the only pass play we consistently attempt is a 5 yard out.

No doubt that we haven;t taken attempts downfield but the coaches know our line was not giving much time for JP to toss them plus they didn't want him to force things which is what he was doing and trying to learn at the same time. The line is part of the reason that the capable of throwing 400= yards Holcomb can't even toss them long. We cannot blame all of the poor passing on JP when he had a learning curve to begin with.
For christ sakes, he didn't play any worse than Eli did last year and our balless management pulled the rip cord before he even had a chance. Shame on them for still thinking that we are a playoff caliber team and for picking Mike Williams 4th overall. and the *****ty playcalling, and for not beefing up either side of the line.

[Billzz]

People the NFL is about winning now not building for the future anymore. Free Agency and salary caps have made that happen. Regardless if it is hurting JP or not they want to win now.

Personally I would like to see JP in but that is not the way it works. Like it has been said 1000 times you won't see JP until Mularkey thinks it is time.

Mularkey to me hurt JP with his choices of when to put him in. The end of the NE game last year? Wow what a *****ty choice. Ok so on the record I think some piss poor choices are being made that overall have hurt JP between benching, just handing him the team and not having a competitive training camp for the best QB to start. Stupid Stupid Stupid.

[BillsFever21]

All I know is the fact that last week, on national primetime TV, in Foxboro.. we were winning in the 4th quarter! Call me crazy.... but I never would have expected that... not even prior to the season! He doesnt lose games... if our D was a top 15 ranked D, we would 5-3 instead of 3-5!

But we didn't win the game and why was that? Because the offense couldn't put the game away.

It's pretty sad when some fans are happy we were in the lead for 50 minutes. That doesn't mean squat.

If we got our buts kicked for 50 minutes and made a comeback would anyone's excuse be "He shouldn't be starting. We were losing the game for the first 50 minutes"

The only thing that matters are wins and Holcomb isn't doing that either. Isn't that why everyone felt Losman should be benched because we wern't winning? Holcomb has lost two in a row against losing teams so we're not winning with him either.

The QB isn't the problem with this team it's the coaching. Till they are gone it will never change.

[X-Era]

Whats funny is... that all of these people saying put JP in dont realize something.

Just cause JP is playing, doesnt mean that HE is getting better! Not saying he wont.. but it isnt a guarantee.

Funnier thing about keeping Holcomb in is that we KNOW he WONT get any better and furthermore, that he isnt good enough NOW!

This is the biggest non-issue ever.

Seriously, this is AVP as our starting QB part deux

[X-Era]

All I know is the fact that last week, on national primetime TV, in Foxboro.. we were winning in the 4th quarter! Call me crazy.... but I never would have expected that... not even prior to the season! He doesnt lose games... if our D was a top 15 ranked D, we would 5-3 instead of 3-5!

Dude, with all do respect, no team and especially no QB who goes into the half 3 to 0 after like 4 or 5 trips to the red zone has ANYTHING to brag about. In fact, that would be the winner of the "most likely to spend your career on the bench" prize.

Unfortunately, KH IS probably the guy to most likely win games now. The concept to me has ZERO to do with which QB wins more games now. Because in no way do I feel this team can win a SB now, I personally dont think we even make the playoffs.

So, this like arguing who should drive the Escort at the Indy 500. Whats the point?

The Bills supposedly thought so much of Losman as their future to trade picks, and move up to get him. But why give him invaluable playing time in a non-playoff or SB year when you can sacrifice games next year as well?

Hell, lets never play him, build a permanently mediocre team, let him sit for the next 4 years and then trade him for the next Mr. Irrelevant pick. Makes sense to me.

KH is a known, proven, mediocre at best QB. No one disputes that. Furthermore most people feel the rest of the team wont go to the playoffs or SB. Again, this is a monumental non-issue. The Bills are playing a stupid game to save face where they are so bull headed to not conceed the year that they will sacrifice most of next year as well. So, it costs them now, it costs them later, and it costs all of us fans in the form of frustration as well.

Sounds like a winner

[Typ0]

a lot of things to respond to here.

There will be no wildcard team comming from the AFC East. 9 - 7 might get us to the playoffs...but it will be because that's what won the division.

KH threw the pass in the NE game that was the key turnover that cost the game.

Where does the line draw on these "development" throw away games? I know after the houston game JP was entirely non-existant on the field. He sucked in such a fashion that NOTHING was getting done. The error we made was having him in there two games too many...it's likely we beat any or all of the teams we lost to early in the season with some production from the QB position. This could be a playoff team...and no they won't make much noise in the playoffs but guess what...the team will be better in the future just for getting there and having the experience. So how much does the organization have to throw away just to have some games for JP to develop? What's next then we have to throw away games so we can have a decent offensive tackle?

[X-Era]

a lot of things to respond to here.

There will be no wildcard team comming from the AFC East. 9 - 7 might get us to the playoffs...but it will be because that's what won the division.

KH threw the pass in the NE game that was the key turnover that cost the game.

Where does the line draw on these "development" throw away games? I know after the houston game JP was entirely non-existant on the field. He sucked in such a fashion that NOTHING was getting done. The error we made was having him in there two games too many...it's likely we beat any or all of the teams we lost to early in the season with some production from the QB position. This could be a playoff team...and no they won't make much noise in the playoffs but guess what...the team will be better in the future just for getting there and having the experience. So how much does the organization have to throw away just to have some games for JP to develop? What's next then we have to throw away games so we can have a decent offensive tackle?JP on his worst play did not look as bad as Eli last year, where are the Giants now. Your assumption is that Losman wasnt developing that what we saw was it from him. That is not even close to being fair or correct. There are WAY too many exmples of other QB's that show the opposite is true to believe that.

What I saw, was a guy who was too hesitant. He wasnt making big plays but also wasnt giving up many big plays either. I saw enough to get excited about the future. Again, KH beat 2 of the leagues worst, JP lost against 2 of the leagues best. Really, JP has had one bad game against NO. If KH is worthy of being a starter based on one good game, JP should lose his job based on one bad one?

[X-Era]

a lot of things to respond to here.

There will be no wildcard team comming from the AFC East. 9 - 7 might get us to the playoffs...but it will be because that's what won the division.

KH threw the pass in the NE game that was the key turnover that cost the game.

Where does the line draw on these "development" throw away games? I know after the houston game JP was entirely non-existant on the field. He sucked in such a fashion that NOTHING was getting done. The error we made was having him in there two games too many...it's likely we beat any or all of the teams we lost to early in the season with some production from the QB position. This could be a playoff team...and no they won't make much noise in the playoffs but guess what...the team will be better in the future just for getting there and having the experience. So how much does the organization have to throw away just to have some games for JP to develop? What's next then we have to throw away games so we can have a decent offensive tackle?JP on his worst play did not look as bad as Eli last year, where are the Giants now. Your assumption is that Losman wasnt developing that what we saw was it from him. That is not even close to being fair or correct. There are WAY too many exmples of other QB's that show the opposite is true to believe that.

What I saw, was a guy who was too hesitant. He wasnt making big plays but also wasnt giving up many big plays either. I saw enough to get excited about the future. Again, KH beat 2 of the leagues worst, JP lost against 2 of the leagues best. Really, JP has had one bad game against NO. If KH is worthy of being a starter based on one good game, JP should lose his job based on one bad one?

[DynaPaul]

Whats funny is... that all of these people saying put JP in dont realize something.

Just cause JP is playing, doesnt mean that HE is getting better! Not saying he wont.. but it isnt a guarantee.

Yeah but we gotta find out now whether or not the kid is a bust. Only playing time will show us that.

[JD]

What happens if we finish 8-8, win the division and get blown up at Pittsburgh in the first round of the playoffs?
Because we made the playoffs do we stick with Holcomb and build on the performance of this year? Or do we go with the unproven inexperianced backup?
The best chance to win prolly again will be Holcomb, so I guess it would be him then?
If we make the playoffs, HUGE party at my house first of all. JP will probably want to be traded if he doesnt play anymore this year so I dont know what next year will hold if we stick with Holcomb straight through this year.