Bennie is in for Mike Williams (Big Bust) [Archive] - BillsZone.com

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Mitchy moo

11-13-2005, 01:07 PM

MW looks lost, very lost.

Mr. Cynical

11-13-2005, 01:14 PM

:fat:

Novacane

11-13-2005, 01:30 PM

a $9mill backup guard :rolleyes:

Mitchy moo

11-13-2005, 01:37 PM

a $9mill backup guard :rolleyes:

Soon be ex-bill @ that price!

billsburgh

11-13-2005, 02:37 PM

I know he's not really a good tackle but to be fair he's never played guard before. did you really think he was going to be perfect after a couple practices at a new position

Mitchy moo

11-13-2005, 03:32 PM

I know he's not really a good tackle but to be fair he's never played guard before. did you really think he was going to be perfect after a couple practices at a new position

No but after 4 years he really doesn't know how to play any position that well.

billsburgh

11-13-2005, 03:45 PM

No but after 4 years he really doesn't know how to play any position that well.
very true. the coaches must really be down on him if he's healthy enough to play and is behind Jason Peters

Wolffman

11-13-2005, 03:47 PM

MW looks lost, very lost.

NO ****. He's playing a position he hasn't played since high school probibly.

Mitchy moo

11-13-2005, 03:54 PM

NO ****. He's playing a position he hasn't played since high school probibly.

Therefore enjoy the bench you $9 million dollar nobody.

MW He better save all his money, he ain't going to see anymore from Buffalo!

Lexwhat

11-13-2005, 04:09 PM

ShadowHawk7

11-13-2005, 04:56 PM

MW was solely responsible for two seperate plays where a defensive player came in free and sacked Holcomb, one of them caused a turnover in the red zone and knocked Kelly out. Luckily we benched him before he could do further damage. Make him compete at RT for his real job, or let him ride the bench and be cut imo.

DynaPaul

11-13-2005, 05:28 PM

I think Donahoe scouted his size and never bothered looking at his skill. Another guy who was great in college solely because of his physical size but just doesn't know how to play the game.

Mitchy moo

11-13-2005, 06:35 PM

Devin

11-13-2005, 06:37 PM

NO ****. He's playing a position he hasn't played since high school probibly.

Im assuming you mean OG.

Because he cant play OT and he has played that for sometime now.

don137

11-13-2005, 07:12 PM

Sad part is he is making more money sucking in one year than all us posters will make in a lifetime...

Mitchy moo

11-13-2005, 07:45 PM

Sad part is he is making more money sucking in one year than all us posters will make in a lifetime...\

Well I can't say all of us but most to be certain.

Mitchy moo

11-14-2005, 11:34 AM

From right tackle to left guard to the bench.

For Buffalo Bills offensive lineman Mike Williams, last week’s progression is surely one he’d like to forget.

Williams, the Bills’ first-round selection in the 2002 NFL Draft, was sent to the sidelines during the Bills’ 14-3 victory over the Kansas City Chiefs on Sunday at Ralph Wilson Stadium.

During the second quarter, he was beaten on a third-and-five play from the Kansas City 7 yard line. Quarterback Kelly Holcomb fumbled on the ensuing sack, which resulted in a turnover, and also suffered a concussion, knocking him out of the game.

On the next Bills’ drive, Williams was a spectator.

“We had a couple of breakdowns in there,” coach Mike Mularkey said. “I don’t fault Mike Williams, we kind of threw him into the fire. Maybe he just needs more time in there to work.”

http://www.niagara-gazette.com/cnhi/niagaragazette/sports/gnnsports_story_317224603.html?tbdgnnsports_story_317224603.html

pintonick96

11-14-2005, 03:15 PM

Luisito23

11-14-2005, 03:33 PM

Whats sad about fans who only look at stats is that you dont see how Mike Williams did a decent job at run blocking, but still pass blocks like a OT. He needs to find a way how to keep inside instead of looking at only one guy. If given a little time, he may start there again.

Agreed....

MW is not the playmaker he should be but he's no scrub neither....
I think the biggest problem Buffalo needs to realize and fix is our run D. cause we are going nowhere if week keep giving RBs career days....
specially with L.D. coming up....

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!

vicmantak

11-15-2005, 12:29 AM

DOES ANYONE (CLUMP) KNOW WHAT OUR APPROXIMATE CAP SAVINGS WILL BE NEXT YEAR IF WE CUT MIKE WILLIAMS BEFORE THE SEASON STARTS? I HOPE IT'S NOT A CAP HIT....

AND WHAT ABOUT IF WE CUT JEFF POSEY? I KNOW IT PROBALLY WONT HAPPEN, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO GET RID OF POSEY AND PUT CROWELL IN HIS PLACE. CROWELL WOULD BE CHEAPER AND ACCOMPLISH JUST AS MUCH, IF NOT MORE...

Those 2 moves would free up some cap space I hope. The loss of Josh Reed and Trey Teague should also free up some space. If anything, I think Teague would re-sign at a lower salary. And the way things are going right now, it seems like Sam Adams will be gone too.

If today is any indication, Rashard Baker could move into the starter's position at Free Safety in place of Troy Vincent. If we cannot re-sign Clements, I can see Troy Vincent going back into the CB spot and taking Nate's vacant position....

With these moves, I would hope we are able to sign some good free agents. (LeCharles Bentley, Steve Hutchinson, perhaps a D-Tackle and/or Safety)
Good suggestions but I can see this scenario but a little different.
SECONDARY:Let's figure out that Bills do a conservative move franchising Nate Clements to keep him relatively cheap (top 5 paid average) or to get a late 1st round pick.
If some team is interested (San Diego, KC, Oakland, Giants, etc) it will mean that Bills will make the gamble in the 1st round drafting a rookie with that pick. If not, the next step will be "purge" the secondary cap and IMO it must be Troy Vincent. On the other hand, I can also see Bills drafting the future replacement of Lawyer Milloy.
DL: Even if Bills decide to keep Denney and Bannan (keep the DL intact) and draft the best DT available on the first round... Bills really need masive Sam Adams.
LB: This situation suddenly changed after TKO's injury but there are two facts that the FO might not forget: 1) Bills will commit suicide if they decide to let Crowell go (I'm crossing fingers to see him resigned before it's too late) and 2) Bills have two lessening LBs on Jeff Posey and London Fletcher.
IMO Spikes might return to his original position (MLB) and let Crowell continue his work on the weak side. Fletcher is doing and did a great job and agree or not he is the man to let him go.
OL: Even if Mike shows that he will be a good G... Tom Donahoe is showing some healthy signals of objectiveness and it seems that Mike will be fired. New England has shown us that you've better go for intelligence ahead of "rounded shapes" and IMO Bills will help the OL via FA. In other words, Bills will spend the off-season money on the OL.

mchurchfie

11-15-2005, 01:36 AM

Tom Donahoe is showing some healthy signals of objectiveness and it seems that Mike will be fired.In other words he might actually put the good of the team in front of his HUGE ego. I'm all for it.:coocoo:

Lexwhat

11-15-2005, 05:22 AM

Good suggestions but I can see this scenario but a little different.
SECONDARY:Let's figure out that Bills do a conservative move franchising Nate Clements to keep him relatively cheap (top 5 paid average) or to get a late 1st round pick.
If some team is interested (San Diego, KC, Oakland, Giants, etc) it will mean that Bills will make the gamble in the 1st round drafting a rookie with that pick. If not, the next step will be "purge" the secondary cap and IMO it must be Troy Vincent. On the other hand, I can also see Bills drafting the future replacement of Lawyer Milloy.
DL: Even if Bills decide to keep Denney and Bannan (keep the DL intact) and draft the best DT available on the first round... Bills really need masive Sam Adams.
LB: This situation suddenly changed after TKO's injury but there are two facts that the FO might not forget: 1) Bills will commit suicide if they decide to let Crowell go (I'm crossing fingers to see him resigned before it's too late) and 2) Bills have two lessening LBs on Jeff Posey and London Fletcher.
IMO Spikes might return to his original position (MLB) and let Crowell continue his work on the weak side. Fletcher is doing and did a great job and agree or not he is the man to let him go.
OL: Even if Mike shows that he will be a good G... Tom Donahoe is showing some healthy signals of objectiveness and it seems that Mike will be fired. New England has shown us that you've better go for intelligence ahead of "rounded shapes" and IMO Bills will help the OL via FA. In other words, Bills will spend the off-season money on the OL.

Good points!

I can definetly see the NY Giants and/or SD Chargers going after Nate Clements. If I remember correctly, they both have cap space and are in need of a CB. Of course I would prefer that Nate go to the NFC NY Giants instead of the to the AFC SD Chargers. Getting a 1st rounder from the Giants would be ideal, IMO.

Does anyone know what the CB pool looks like for the 2006 draft? We would of course need a bigger physical CB to be able to complement McGee on the opposite side. Maybe someone who follows the draft (JP-era) can tell me about the CB class for bigger CBs...

I agree that the Bills should purge the "secondary cap," but I'm wondering if that rookie would be able to assume responsiblity immediately? IMO, the chances are that McGee would stay covering the smaller quicker receivers. I'm not sure McGee could match up well with the bigger, stronger WRs. That's the only reason why I think that we should keep Vincent around for another year so that the rookie can learn...but I guess it will all depend on exactly which CB we are able to land.

In other words, Vincent wouldn't be as much of a liability as the rookie would be. Especially as a potential playoff team next year (I hope), a rookie CB covering the best receivers could be trouble...A WR burning a CB on one play can change the outcome of the game. And of course, 1 game could change our playoff picture.

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You're right about Sam Adams. Especially with the lack of experience at the D-Tackle position, Sam would be an asset. Now that you mention it, I changed my mind about that...

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If the Bills let Crowell go, I would be baffled. Teams would jump to sign him. IMO, he has lots of upside...The reason I would want to move Crowell into Posey's spot is that we would then be able to field our best 3 LB combination on the field at a time.

It's tough to say, but after thinking about it, would you rather have Crowell/Fletcher/Spikes in that order or have Posey/Spikes/Crowell in that order? IMO, Posey has already hit his maximum upside. I want to see what a younger and fresher Crowell can do in his spot. Posey is not a bad player, but he's not much of a playmaker (at least not in the 4-3). If it's any indication so far, Crowell is becoming a playmaker...I actually would hate to see Fletcher go. I think Fletcher would be effective again with an improved D-Line and Spikes next to him. And would you agree that Spikes would be less effective at a position he hasen't played in years while at the same time coming back from a major injury?

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Nothing would make me happier than if we sign 2 great players to add to our O-Line (Bentley, Hutchinson, others). With Big Mike gone, we could certainly afford it. It almost seems too good to be true. IMO, I sincerely believe we are 2 good O-Linemen away from a high-powered offense. We all know what JP / KH are capable of if they have a lot of time to throw. And we all know how much more effective Willis can be if the line is creating holes for him.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess the future basically rests with JP. If he turns out to be good, I think we have a young up-and-coming team to be truly excited about. Otherwise, it's just wishful thinking and we will probally end up rebuilding again.

:nervous:
Hoping for the best!

mysticsoto

11-15-2005, 09:07 AM

Good points!

I can definetly see the NY Giants and/or SD Chargers going after Nate Clements. If I remember correctly, they both have cap space and are in need of a CB. Of course I would prefer that Nate go to the NFC NY Giants instead of the to the AFC SD Chargers. Getting a 1st rounder from the Giants would be ideal, IMO.

Does anyone know what the CB pool looks like for the 2006 draft? We would of course need a bigger physical CB to be able to complement McGee on the opposite side. Maybe someone who follows the draft (JP-era) can tell me about the CB class for bigger CBs...

I agree that the Bills should purge the "secondary cap," but I'm wondering if that rookie would be able to assume responsiblity immediately? IMO, the chances are that McGee would stay covering the smaller quicker receivers. I'm not sure McGee could match up well with the bigger, stronger WRs. That's the only reason why I think that we should keep Vincent around for another year so that the rookie can learn...but I guess it will all depend on exactly which CB we are able to land.

In other words, Vincent wouldn't be as much of a liability as the rookie would be. Especially as a potential playoff team next year (I hope), a rookie CB covering the best receivers could be trouble...A WR burning a CB on one play can change the outcome of the game. And of course, 1 game could change our playoff picture.

I think one of the reasons Eric King is getting alot of playing time is b'cse it's going to be McGee, King and Greer. If Kevin Thomas comes back healthy and doesn't get hurt yet again, he may play a part in this mix, but overall, I think this is what they are planning. Will we have the shortest secondary in the NFL?

You're right about Sam Adams. Especially with the lack of experience at the D-Tackle position, Sam would be an asset. Now that you mention it, I changed my mind about that...

I expect we will get a massive DT with our 1st rd pick and place him next to Sam. Then hopefully Sam will get his wish. The rookie can hold the fort down while Sam rushes into the backfield and disrupts the play. When Edwards returns, he will do the rushing while Sam, rookie or backup hold the fort.

If the Bills let Crowell go, I would be baffled. Teams would jump to sign him. IMO, he has lots of upside...The reason I would want to move Crowell into Posey's spot is that we would then be able to field our best 3 LB combination on the field at a time.

It's tough to say, but after thinking about it, would you rather have Crowell/Fletcher/Spikes in that order or have Posey/Spikes/Crowell in that order? IMO, Posey has already hit his maximum upside. I want to see what a younger and fresher Crowell can do in his spot. Posey is not a bad player, but he's not much of a playmaker (at least not in the 4-3). If it's any indication so far, Crowell is becoming a playmaker...I actually would hate to see Fletcher go. I think Fletcher would be effective again with an improved D-Line and Spikes next to him. And would you agree that Spikes would be less effective at a position he hasen't played in years while at the same time coming back from a major injury?

Keep in mind that Posey's position is subject to the scheme that Gray wants to play. His position doesn't usually entail making plays. Would Crowell be happy in a position that doesn't have much glory? This is the reason Sam Adams isn't happy - b'cse he's being forced into a position that doesn't make plays and just mans his spot - no glory. I'm not saying I wouldn't mind Crowell taking the spot. I'm just saying that if you don't hear his name often once he takes the spot - you shouldn't be surprised.

Nothing would make me happier than if we sign 2 great players to add to our O-Line (Bentley, Hutchinson, others). With Big Mike gone, we could certainly afford it. It almost seems too good to be true. IMO, I sincerely believe we are 2 good O-Linemen away from a high-powered offense. We all know what JP / KH are capable of if they have a lot of time to throw. And we all know how much more effective Willis can be if the line is creating holes for him.

I don't know if we save anything by releasing big Mike or if we take such a substantial cap hit, that it is not worth it. I do know that after next year, he is definitely gone, regardless. I think Clump had broke it down in a post. Here's the link: http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=83035

Here's the summary of it:

Scenario 1: Release before roster bonus due whatever date but before 6/1: I would assume Bills decide not to pay roster bonus and release him. The cap savings are:

Cap hit - remaining amortization = cap savings

$10,813,764 - (2 X $3,453,333) = $3,907,098 in 2006

$7,372,040 on 2007

This scenario holds true for a trade as well as long as the Bills do not pay roster bonus

Scenario 2: Release after 6/1 and do not pay roster bonus:

Cap hit - 2006 amortization = cap savings

$10,813,764 - $3,453,333 = $7,360,431 in 2006

However, he would still count $3,453,333 on 2007 cap

It looks like it comes down to...paying the bulk of it in 2006 or 2007. Either way, we take a steep cap hit at some point. And if we are not going to need him (his Guard play isn't great and Peters is now set at Tackle) we might as well cut him and do scenario 2. Take the immediate hit and lessen it in 2007...Damn...I thought he was a FA after 2006...

We can draft a massive Tackle/Guard next year to play backup Tackle (dump Jerman) and we may need to keep Teague or bring in FAs just in case...

Mitchy moo

11-15-2005, 10:51 AM

Wow, what to do with him. Maybe we can lower his salary to -$4,000,000. Then he owe the bills money.:funny:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left width=470>Williams staying at left guard
By ALLEN WILSON
News Sports Reporter
11/15/2005 </TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>http://www.buffalonews.com/images/space.gif</TD></TR><TR><TD width=2>http://www.buffalonews.com/images/space.gif</TD><TD vAlign=top width=499 bgColor=#ffffff>Mike Williams thinks he's better off at right tackle. The Buffalo Bills apparently don't agree.
Coach Mike Mularkey said Monday that Williams would remain at left guard for at least another week.
A surprise starter at left guard Sunday, Williams looked like a guy who never played the position. He blew some critical blocking assignments, twice failing to pick up Kansas City Chiefs defensive end Carlos Hall on a stunt. One breakdown led to a sack that knocked quarterback Kelly Holcomb out of the game with a concussion.
Mularkey blamed himself for Williams' struggles, saying it was too much to ask Williams to perform at a new position after just three days of practice. "We put Mike in a position that wasn't fair to him," Mularkey said. "We're going to give him some more time at that position. And when we feel like it's enough, we'll give him a shot again." Williams admitted it was tough adjusting to guard, which is why he prefers to play tackle.

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20051115/1004654.asp?tbd1004654.asp
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

justasportsfan

11-15-2005, 10:55 AM

I'm surprised no one here suggested plugging Williams in at LG and have him DEVELOp ? :idunno:

Lexwhat

11-15-2005, 06:00 PM

Mysticsoto,

Thanks for showing me about Mike Williams cap situation! I was wondering about that for a while, but I guess I never saw that thread...

I would certainly hope we are able to sign another CB to replace Nate. IMO, A secondary that small would certainly spell problems for our defense, especially in the end zone if the opposing QB throws up jump balls. I think it would create a sore mismatch...

As for DT, good point that he would be a massive guy. But 2 things. I imagine if we pick a DT that early in the draft, he would have run-stuffing as well as pass-rushing capabilities combined. In other words, he would be a player similar to Sam Adams. I would hope a 1st round DT can do more than just stuff the run. Secondly, I highly doubt Ron Edwards would be re-signed. Isnt Edwards a FA after this season is over? IMO, He has shown nothing spectacular in the games he has played...

I am aware of Posey's "role" on the team and that it does not entail big time stats. However, I have seen many times where Posey doesn't make the play he's supposed to. I get especially mad when I see Posey miss tackles. It's hard to point out exact moments right now, but I have seen him miss plenty of tackles (or slide off the ball carrier) and have seen him react late to other plays as well. Moreover, IMO, he gets blocked very easily...It's hard to point out the instances since he is more or less a role player, but I think there's many times when he could have made plays but he didn't. As for Crowell, do you think he would complain? I think he would just be happy that he has been promoted to starter. He probally wouldn't have stats like he would if he played in Spikes's position, but I honestly think he could make something more happen, even at Posey's position. Besides, what's the worse that could happen? If anything, he would be cheaper than Posey and do the same job. I'm not disagreeing with you though, you brought up good points!

IMO, it's not fair to judge Mike Williams based on 1 game at Guard with only a week to practice...But a lot would need to happen to keep him on our team. For one, he would need to play GREAT at guard as the season progresses in order to keep his job. Secondly, he would need to take a pay-cut. Would all of that stuff work out like that? I'm not sure. I do hope so, and I like Mike Williams as a person. If I were to guess, he might take a pay cut to benefit the team and allow us to sign 1 more player to add to the O-Line. It all depends though how his season progresses....

Mitchy moo

11-15-2005, 09:35 PM

Lexwhat

11-16-2005, 03:00 AM

I have not judged him by 1 game but dozens. The guy is a load but fails to do his job and now @ $9 Million is he a bargain or a bust.

$900,000, he is a bargain and we'll find something he is good at except keeping the bench warm. At $9 Million that money could be well spent on 2 other great players, like keeping nate and a few others in town.

I meant to say it's not fair to judge him on 1 game at the Guard Position. I was saying a lot would have to happen if we were to keep Mike Williams.

1. He would need to play GREAT at Guard in order to have a chance.
2. He must be willing to take a significant pay cut to be at about the league's average as far as Guards go.

Do I think this will happen? Not really. But if that scanario works out, it would be nice to see. MW is a nice guy and if he's willing to make it work, why not give him the chance? If he doesn't fulfill both of those above requirements, then I say let him go...

I will hold my judgement about his capabilities at Guard until towards the end of the season...I would hate to see the draft pick be a complete waste. I would hope we can at least get SOMETHING out of it, if possible.

vicmantak

11-16-2005, 04:57 AM

Lex,

It's really interesting your points.
LBs: IMO it's the most important and controversial point to improve or maintain respect on defense. The combination of Crowell, Fletcher and Spikes really makes sense and looks very very strong but:
1) Spikes' nature is MLB. If you see photos when he was a Bengal (or inclusive on college) his body build was significantly different. If I'm not wrong Spikes "sacrificed" weight and power for speed. He is the best player Bills ever had for at least 10 years and IMO Bills should build the defense from the middle...
2) Posey. As mysticsoto exactly said, Posey's position is subject to the scheme that Gray wants to play. He is the only back who brings size (6-4) and experience, and if he gets hurt believe me that coaches will face several dilemma issues when they make the calls... To be frank, this is the reason that I insisted to draft big and aggressive LBs during the past off-season.
3) Fletcher. He is now the soul of the defense but unfortunately for him, Bills maybe have the best MLB depth in the NFL. He is still a tackling machine but for several reasons... Bills need something more at the middle.

OL: To be frank, Bills did a very big mistake when they didn't do what they are doing now with Mike Williams. Mike's dimensions and skills doesn't fit to tackle and Bills might have switched to LG from the beginning of the off-season. It will significantly cost a lot of $ but unfortunately it will cost a RELIABLE LG and TIME. Anyway, Bills are fortunately looking forward the playoffs and they might still focus to upgrade the LG spot.
DL: I'm really happy to know that keep Sam Adams and draft a DT in the first round are becoming OBVIOUS.

Lexwhat

11-16-2005, 06:12 AM

Lex,

It's really interesting your points.
LBs: IMO it's the most important and controversial point to improve or maintain respect on defense. The combination of Crowell, Fletcher and Spikes really makes sense and looks very very strong but:
1) Spikes' nature is MLB. If you see photos when he was a Bengal (or inclusive on college) his body build was significantly different. If I'm not wrong Spikes "sacrificed" weight and power for speed. He is the best player Bills ever had for at least 10 years and IMO Bills should build the defense from the middle...
2) Posey. As mysticsoto exactly said, Posey's position is subject to the scheme that Gray wants to play. He is the only back who brings size (6-4) and experience, and if he gets hurt believe me that coaches will face several dilemma issues when they make the calls... To be frank, this is the reason that I insisted to draft big and aggressive LBs during the past off-season.
3) Fletcher. He is now the soul of the defense but unfortunately for him, Bills maybe have the best MLB depth in the NFL. He is still a tackling machine but for several reasons... Bills need something more at the middle.

I will admit, I never closely paid attention to Spikes while he was with the Bengals. I knew he was a key player, but back then, I never really watched him in games. If you say his natural position is MLB, then I'll take your word for it...

With the emergence of Crowell, it made me wonder. How about the Bills in a 3-4 defense? However, I think this would limit the productivity of Spikes. IMO, we need to maximize the abilities of Spikes and not let a system limit him. You are right, I agree that Spikes is the best player the Bills have had in the last 10 years.

I would be sad to see Fletcher go. I really like the guy. I have another question, but maybe it's just my imagination. Do you think Fletcher would ever succeed playing Strong Safety? I guess I would be sad to see Fletcher go, and would like him to play on the Bills regardless of position.

Mitchy moo

11-16-2005, 06:18 AM

I think that MW & his money messed up his mind. He has been sporadic @ best at his position. The coaches have dedicated many hours and a very high draft pick into him.

I personally think he needs a change of environment and different coaches working w/him. That will happen on another team at significantly less cost. Currently this guy is worthless on our team, sorry to say.

The Outsider

11-16-2005, 12:33 PM

If The Outsider had his way the whole lot of these bums would be kicked to the curb!

Big Bust Mike Williams isn't worth 9 dollars let alone 9 million!

Bennie 'The Penalty' Anderson is a fat slob that knows more about the buffet line than the offensive line.

As for Teague, his subpar inconsistent play was exposed way back when he was still a bucking denver bronco.

Mitchy moo

11-16-2005, 02:25 PM