You know the OL is in trouble when...

[Ebenezer]

Jason Peters is the best OL. Seriously. Villarrial looks awful, Williams is a bust, Gandy is a turnstile...just when Teague looks like he is getting better he gets beat by Al Wallace for a sack. When an undrafted free agent TE is your best T or OL you are in serious trouble.

[Dr. Lecter]

Williams was actually playing well until he got hurt AGAIN!!!

Somebody shoot Villarrial.

[don137]

The thing that is really sad is the Bills have brought in a boat load of players for the OL the passed few years and they seem to go from bad to worse. It really is inexcusable to not get any decent players with the amount of players they brought in.
The ineffectiveness of the OL really is a big reason the Bills have not been competitive under the TD regime.

[OpIv37]

The thing that is really sad is the Bills have brought in a boat load of players for the OL the passed few years and they seem to go from bad to worse. It really is inexcusable to not get any decent players with the amount of players they brought in.
The ineffectiveness of the OL really is a big reason the Bills have not been competitive under the TD regime.

it's pretty much the ONLY reason. With a decent O-line, we could compensate for our lack of a D line and would have easily made the playoffs in 03 and 04. But TD is not a good judge of O line talent and insists on taking the best player available in the draft regardless of position. Hence, we end up with a boatload of backup receivers, no o-line help, and no depth at other positions.

[jamze132]

Our O-line is by far the worste in the NFL. And for that simnple reason, we lost today and will continue to lose until Donadick addresses the problem with some nice free agents. Anderson and Gandy don't qualify.

[Michael82]

Damien Woody.....
Mike Wahle.....
Keydrick Vincent.....
Rick DeMulling.....

:sigh:

[Forward_Lateral]

Damien Woody.....
Mike Wahle.....
Keydrick Vincent.....
Rick DeMulling.....

:sigh:

Well, Demulling isn't even a starter in Detroit anymore, and Woody looks pretty bad too. Wahle is playing well, can't say I even know who Vincent is.

[Michael82]

Well, Demulling isn't even a starter in Detroit anymore, and Woody looks pretty bad too. Wahle is playing well, can't say I even know who Vincent is.
Well then....if those guys are all doing bad, apparently TD did try to address the OL, but failed, just like other teams failed too. :idunno:

Although, I wouldn't judge anyone on Detroit. That's a terrible team. Woody isn't that bad, he's just on a pathetic team.

[Michael82]

and besides....

any of them are better than that piece of ****, Bennie "Fat Ass" Anderson. :ill:

[dannyek71]

and besides....

any of them are better than that piece of ****, Bennie "Fat Ass" Anderson. :ill:

TDs mind thinks: Fatter Linemen = better linemen.

[BillsFever21]

The thing that is really sad is the Bills have brought in a boat load of players for the OL the passed few years and they seem to go from bad to worse. It really is inexcusable to not get any decent players with the amount of players they brought in.
The ineffectiveness of the OL really is a big reason the Bills have not been competitive under the TD regime.

He keeps bringing in players but they are all a bunch of castoffs that didn't make it with their previous team(s)

He's trying to put a good line together by pairing a bunch of losers together. That won't cut it. What you're left with are a bunch of losers who aren't experienced in playing together. That leaves you with a bunch of inexperienced losers.

[BillsFever21]

Well then....if those guys are all doing bad, apparently TD did try to address the OL, but failed, just like other teams failed too. :idunno:

Although, I wouldn't judge anyone on Detroit. That's a terrible team. Woody isn't that bad, he's just on a pathetic team.

If they're a terrible team at 4-7 what does that make us? We haven't had anymore success then they have the past 5 years.

They are a lot like us. They have some talent on the team but it's not translating into victories.

[Bill Cody]

Here's what I'd like to know: for three years Drew Bledsoe had to play behind clowns as bad or worse (Mike Pucillo anyone?) as the group we're trotting out there now and there was barely a peep about the o-line's problems. Instead it was "Bledsoe holds the ball", "Bledsoe sucks" blah blah blah. Now the guy that was supposed to be a "step forward" from Bledsoe flat out chokes the game away and generates a measly 2 FG's (the D GAVE him one) AT HOME and everyone either wants to give him a game ball or blame everything from the o-line to the D to the playcalling for the fact that we flushed away a VERY winnable game. You know what? TD should have built a line 3 years ago and Bledsoe would still be here, we'd be headed for the playoffs instead of a top 5 draft pick and we'd have used that 1st, 2nd and 5th to fill OTHER holes that flushing them on JP Lossman.

[BillsFever21]

Here's what I'd like to know: for three years Drew Bledsoe had to play behind clowns as bad or worse (Mike Pucillo anyone?) as the group we're trotting out there now and there was barely a peep about the o-line's problems. Instead it was "Bledsoe holds the ball", "Bledsoe sucks" blah blah blah. Now the guy that was supposed to be a "step forward" from Bledsoe flat out chokes the game away and generates a measly 2 FG's (the D GAVE him one) AT HOME and everyone either wants to give him a game ball or blame everything from the o-line to the D to the playcalling for the fact that we flushed away a VERY winnable game. You know what? TD should have built a line 3 years ago and Bledsoe would still be here, we'd be headed for the playoffs instead of a top 5 draft pick and we'd have used that 1st, 2nd and 5th to fill OTHER holes that flushing them on JP Lossman.

Bledsoe just stood there and curled up in a fetal postion and took a sack and fumbling. Losman is making plays out of nothing when he gets pressured. Bledsoe would be taking twice as many sacks.

Losman is producing the same in his 6th start as Bledsoe was after 12 years for 1/3 of the price.

And if you think we'd be in the playoffs if Drew was here you need to pass the pipe this way. He had 2.5 miserable years here and couldn't get us anywhere. He was an uninspired POS.

And don't even bring up Dallas. His last 6 games have been the Drew Bledsoe we saw here. He lost two games by INT's going the other way for a score and has only 6 TD's along with 9 TO's and 8 fumbles.

[Bill Cody]

Bledsoe just stood there and curled up in a fetal postion and took a sack and fumbling. Losman is making plays out of nothing when he gets pressured. Bledsoe would be taking twice as many sacks.

Losman is producing the same in his 6th start as Bledsoe was after 12 years for 1/3 of the price.

And if you think we'd be in the playoffs if Drew was here you need to pass the pipe this way. He had 2.5 miserable years here and couldn't get us anywhere. He was an uninspired POS.

And don't even bring up Dallas. His last 6 games have been the Drew Bledsoe we saw here. He lost two games by INT's going the other way for a score and has only 6 TD's along with 9 TO's and 8 fumbles.

Right. JP's 1-5 as a starter and he has yet to pass for 200 yards in a game. It'll be YEARS before JP approaches the level of play Drew Bledsoe has shown this year. Last year we were 9-7 with Drew, this year 4-7 and sinking fast. 6-10 is likely. The Cowboys were 6-10 last year without Drew and headed for 10-6 and the playoffs with him, and he's going to the Pro Bowl for the 5th time. Deal with those facts.

My point was that we needed to build an o-line- 3 years ago.

[Spiderweb]

Damien Woody.....
Mike Wahle.....
Keydrick Vincent.....
Rick DeMulling.....
:sigh:

Yepper, of this bunch, Wahle is the one who looks good and to whom TD should have made an effort for. Last OG who moved like him in a Bills uni was Ruben Brown, and before him, Ritcher. Wahle gave a clinic on the Panthers first possession.

[DraftBoy]

Right. JP's 1-5 as a starter and he has yet to pass for 200 yards in a game. It'll be YEARS before JP approaches the level of play Drew Bledsoe has shown this year. Last year we were 9-7 with Drew, this year 4-7 and sinking fast. 6-10 is likely. The Cowboys were 6-10 last year without Drew and headed for 10-6 and the playoffs with him, and he's going to the Pro Bowl for the 5th time. Deal with those facts.

My point was that we needed to build an o-line- 3 years ago.


Dallas has a ways to go before being dubbed a playoff team they have;

@NYG
KC
@WAS
@CAR
STL

I think two out of those they will win, prolly WAS and STL. As for Bledsoe Im gonna reserve jusgement till after the season, bc I remeber all too well how quick we were to praise him here to see him turn to complete **** in one offseason, it was so wonderful.

[RedEyE]

Look at what a 3rd string QB that's never taken a snap in the NFL can do behind a good OL. Fitzpatrick threw for over 300 yards and passed for 3 TDs to win in OT after having been down by 21 points to the Texans.

IMO, a good OL teamed with good WR, then it really doesn't matter who is slinging the ball. Some are better than other (obviously) but any warm body will do.

[finsrclowns]

Dallas has a ways to go before being dubbed a playoff team they have;
@NYG
KC
@WAS
@CAR
STL
I think two out of those they will win, prolly WAS and STL. As for Bledsoe Im gonna reserve jusgement till after the season, bc I remeber all too well how quick we were to praise him here to see him turn to complete **** in one offseason, it was so wonderful.

He's doing better now because he has weapons and he's not eating turf every play, like he was in 2003.

[DraftBoy]

He's doing better now because he has weapons and he's not eating turf every play, like he was in 2003.

What weapons would that be? Meshaun and Terry Glenn? He has Moulds, Price, and Evans while he was here. Then you must be talking about Jones and Barber, but wait he had Henry and McGahee here. So tell me how this isnt different from when he was here again? Also do we have a stat to compare sacks taken in 03 compared to this year in 05?

[DraftBoy]

Look at what a 3rd string QB that's never taken a snap in the NFL can do behind a good OL. Fitzpatrick threw for over 300 yards and passed for 3 TDs to win in OT after having been down by 21 points to the Texans.

IMO, a good OL teamed with good WR, then it really doesn't matter who is slinging the ball. Some are better than other (obviously) but any warm body will do.


Not exactly, if you compare the stats from this year Buffalo has allowed 32 sacks while STL has allowed 39 sacks, and their OL is one of the worst in football. Allowing for two QB's to be injured. Im not saying we are better but they dont have a good OL and the QB makes a big difference.

[RedEyE]

Not exactly, if you compare the stats from this year Buffalo has allowed 32 sacks while STL has allowed 39 sacks, and their OL is one of the worst in football. Allowing for two QB's to be injured. Im not saying we are better but they dont have a good OL and the QB makes a big difference.

I could agree with that. I'm just saying that it doens't take a prodigy to hop in there and get the job done if you have the right protection and the WRs that know how to make it happen. Their OL is better than ours and look who they were playing. That makes all the difference in the world. If that had happend against Seattle, the results would have been very different.

Our latest losses have come against Carolina and San Diego. The chagers are going far in the playoffs, I have no doubnt about that, and Carolina is a tough team to beat. Still we held our ground aginst them and actually pulled off a win against a KC team that took it to the Pats.

I guess my point is that JP and McGahee could both have better games if the OL was twice as better as they are currently. Its tough watching a young guy like Fitzpatrick walk into a game like that and come up with those kind of #s, when JP has been working his ass off and can't even find the 200 yard mark, let alone a late win.

Look at what Baltimore did when they won the Super Bowl. Average QB, good OL, great running game, excellent defense = ring. Look at what Chicago is doing this season. It's very similar to the Ravens SB season.

JP is begining to look like a better than average QB (if he continues to improve) and if he just had the right tools for the job we might have won a few games more than what we have.

Wins:

Dolphins
Jets
Texans
Cheifs

IMO, the Cheifs were the biggest win on the schedule thus far despite division wins over the Jets and Dolphins.

Games lost by the skin of our teeth:

Carolina
New England (Holcomb)
Atlanta (some what)

All similar situations with the same ending results.

[DraftBoy]

I could agree with that. I'm just saying that it doens't take a prodigy to hop in there and get the job done if you have the right protection and the WRs that know how to make it happen. Their OL is better than ours and look who they were playing. That makes all the difference in the world. If that had happend against Seattle, the results would have been very different.

Our latest losses have come against Carolina and San Diego. The chagers are going far in the playoffs, I have no doubnt about that, and Carolina is a tough team to beat. Still we held our ground aginst them and actually pulled off a win against a KC team that took it to the Pats.

I guess my point is that JP and McGahee could both have better games if the OL was twice as better as they are currently. Its tough watching a young guy like Fitzpatrick walk into a game like that and come up with those kind of #s, when JP has been working his ass off and can't even find the 200 yard mark, let alone a late win.

Look at what Baltimore did when they won the Super Bowl. Average QB, good OL, great running game, excellent defense = ring. Look at what Chicago is doing this season. It's very similar to the Ravens SB season.

JP is begining to look like a better than average QB (if he continues to improve) and if he just had the right tools for the job we might have won a few games more than what we have.

Wins:

Dolphins
Jets
Texans
Cheifs

IMO, the Cheifs were the biggest win on the schedule thus far despite division wins over the Jets and Dolphins.

Games lost by the skin of our teeth:

Carolina
New England (Holcomb)
Atlanta (some what)

All similar situations with the same ending results.


I still have to disagree with the begginning of your post Fitzpatrick won that game for them and it was all the QB he showed that he's not just some joe-blow behind a good line, hell he was sacked 5 times. Jackson gained 110 and that helped but it was all Fitzzy in this game, you need a good line to win yea I hear ya but this was not an example of such. I think a prodigy QB makes a huge difference in games where the OL just isnt that good. Somebody who can make a confident throw with the game on the line and the DL in his face? We dont have it and Fittzy showed he does, atleast for one Sunday.

[djjimkelly]

u forgot we had pork chop williams in here too and last i looked hes playing pretty good for a 9-3 seattle team. IMO our o line has 1 player and i think thats mike williams. i know hes hurt alot lately but just think abiout run production with him at RT and then without him there. i know willis had a big game vs pats but otherwise willis hasnt beeen running too well in any other game without him in there at RT and as far as im concerned the rest of the o line can go. teague is about 30 pounds to light and about 25% short on skill. villarial is useless so is anderson. GANDY is the biggest joke of a move our team has made in the DUMBASAHOE era.

and i have to point out the last few weeks we might the only team since 1960 to start 4 white guys on the dline. now obviously being white or black makes zero difference of weather u can play in this league or not. but its a weird cooincidence since we started to play the FARM BOY SPECIAL D LINE WE ALLOW 150 yards rushing a game and besides schobel no one gets near the QB

[DraftBoy]

The guy's name is Floyd "Pork Chop" Womack, and is that a racially motivated stab at the end of your post?

[djjimkelly]

lol im white so its definately not i couldnt care less if the line where green im just pointing out fact. i dont need to see white boys playing d line like crap we need some 330 pound DT's that can play and they seem to be brothers normally

[finsrclowns]

What weapons would that be? Meshaun and Terry Glenn? He has Moulds, Price, and Evans while he was here. Then you must be talking about Jones and Barber, but wait he had Henry and McGahee here. So tell me how this isnt different from when he was here again? Also do we have a stat to compare sacks taken in 03 compared to this year in 05?


FYI, Glenn is 11th in the league in receiving yards, Witten 2nd in the NFC for TE's.

You've got a very short memory. Price wasn't here in 2003. Neither was Evans. Our #2 receiver was Reed who couldn't cut it, Bobby Shaw was # 3 and Moulds was playing hurt most of the year. In 2002 he had weapons and he had production. If you look at the line he had it's a wonder he survived the season, never mind maintain the torrid early season pace but he still set 10 Bills passing records.
And if you want to talk about sacks, consider this: Bledsoe was sacked at a lower rate per attempt all three of his years here than the combo of Losman and Holcomb has so far this year.:peace:

[DraftBoy]

FYI, Glenn is 11th in the league in receiving yards, Witten 2nd in the NFC for TE's.
You've got a very short memory. Price wasn't here in 2003. Neither was Evans. Our #2 receiver was Reed who couldn't cut it, Bobby Shaw was # 3 and Moulds was playing hurt most of the year. In 2002 he had weapons and he had production. If you look at the line he had it's a wonder he survived the season, never mind maintain the torrid early season pace but he still set 10 Bills passing records.
And if you want to talk about sacks, consider this: Bledsoe was sacked at a lower rate per attempt all three of his years here than the combo of Losman and Holcomb has so far this year.:peace:

I find it amussing that you choose to ue 2003 instead of 2002 as the season to compare it to. Bledsoe looked awesome here in 2002 his first year as he does with Dallas, I dont see comparing 03 his 2nd year and this year in Dallas as a good comparison, so why choose 03 and not 02?

[finsrclowns]

I find it amussing that you choose to ue 2003 instead of 2002 as the season to compare it to. Bledsoe looked awesome here in 2002 his first year as he does with Dallas, I dont see comparing 03 his 2nd year and this year in Dallas as a good comparison, so why choose 03 and not 02?

You said he fell off a cliff after his first year. I was explaining why that was. He had fine weapons here in 2002 and he produced. That's the point. If he'd had a good line he would have kept up the alltime yards pace but he got beaten down. Anyone would. We threw a LOT and that was a piss poor pass blocking group. People didn't get that then but now that he's gone the fog is beginning to lift. 2003 the weapons weren't there. 2004 was an offense that didn't fit what he did well but after Willis and Evans were made starters we won almost every week. Parcells has given him weapons and a system that uses what he does well. We could have done that here. TD chose to ignore the line. Now people seem surprised that the QB's are getting sacked at a higher rate than the statue Bledsoe. I'm not.

[L.A. Playa]

Womack had a season ending injury a few weeks ago if I remember correctly

[ScottLawrence]

He's doing better now because he has weapons and he's not eating turf every play, like he was in 2003.

He still sucks, I don't care what anyone says.

Cowboys aren't going anywhere with him.

[L.A. Playa]

Actually the problem is interior line play, why not just put Preston and Geisinger in tehr now and let them take their lumps, they cant do any worse. Gandy and Peters have been playing pretty good ball this year