Willis vs. RonnieB

[FinNasty23]

Normally, I wouldnt even ask this question... but it seems like opinions might be changing on here...

So I ask...
Who would you guys rather have? Willis or RonnieB?

And after stating who you would choose... say why... and what aspects of the player you prefer over the other...

Nasty

[DMBcrew36]

Willis, obviously.

[NJFINSFAN1]

I think its hard to compare still. Brown is only into his 11 game, but he has the look as a better back. But he still needs to show it more.

Time will tell.

[dannyek71]

willis. He has no OL to speak of and he is putting up big #s

[Devin]

Tough call, Fin fans will be biased towards Ronnie and Bills fans towards willis.

Talent wise I think Willis is the better athlete.

Attitude wise deffo Brown.

[ParanoidAndroid]

Brown has improved with the presence of Williams and plays better late in the game when he's fairly fresh. In other words, he's better in a 2 back system (so far). He could have the chance to be the main guy next year.

Willis is a workhorse who gets better the more he carries the ball.
Give me the workhorse any day.

[FinNasty23]

willis. He has no OL to speak of and he is putting up big #s
Well... the Fins o-line isnt anything special either. Here are both of their numbers. And Ronnie is SHARING carries...

Ronnie
Carries - 167
Yards - 789
Average YPC - 4.7
Runs of 20+ - 5
Long of 65
TDs - 4
EDIT:
Receptions - 26
Rec. Yards - 178
Total Yards - 967

Willis
Carries - 236
Yards - 948
Average YPC - 4.0
Runs of 20+ - 4
Long of 27
TDs - 4
EDIT:
Receptions - 17
Rec. Yards - 119
Total Yards - 1,067

[Nublar7]

Well... the Fins o-line isnt anything special either. Here are both of their numbers. And Ronnie is SHARING carries...

Ronnie
Carries - 167
Yards - 789
Average YPC - 4.7
Runs of 20+ - 5
Long of 65
TDs - 4

Willis
Carries - 236
Yards - 948
Average YPC - 4.0
Runs of 20+ - 4
Long of 27
TDs - 4
Plus, Willis is not a breakaway threat. Never really has been. He is more of a powerful short yardage back, while Ronnie is a powerful runner who can go the distance everytime. It is hard to pick one over the other simply because Ronnie has only played in 11 games. However, from what I have seen from both backs, I think Ronnie will have the better career.

[Devin]

Plus, Willis is not a breakaway threat. Never really has been. He is more of a short yardage back, while Ronnie is a powerfull runner who can go the distance everytime. It is hard to pick one over the other simply because Ronnie has only played in 11 games. However, from what I have seen from both backs, I think Ronnie will have the better career.

Well why I dont disagree that Brown is a great back your going to have little chance of arguing that with most Bills fans.

As I said Fin fans will see Brown as the better back, Bills fans Willis.

[RedEyE]

Willis.

Ronnie will run off with Tokin' Ricky Willy to find man love in Tibet.

[Nublar7]

Willis.

Ronnie will run off with Tokin' Ricky Willy to find man love in Tibet.Good luck signing Willis to an extension with Tom Donahoe as your GM and Drew Rosenhaus as his agent. :funny:

[!Papacrunk!]

Just think if Willis never had the injuries. Even for conversation, I don't feel the need to pick--I really like Ronnie Brown's attitude and his running style, but I do tend to be biased. He's a good fit for Miami, just as Willis is a good fit for Buffalo--both bring things to the table that the other may not, but at least we both have RBs w/ bright futures, unlike other teams. Also, don't forget about the pothead, I mean former pothead, Ricky who is happy contributing where he can. It seems like the 1-2 RB punch is starting to be pretty prevalent in the NFL again, so maybe the Bills will try to hop that bandwagon and get a RB to compliment Willis.

[gr8slayer]

As of right now I would take Willis. I think that once Losman breaks out of his shell it will take alot of pressure off of Willis. Willis has "it" when he wants to, when he is on I dont know if there is a player I would rather have. He is also running behind one of the worst OL's in recent history and consistantly puts up very good numbers (when Mularkey gives him the ball more than ten times a game).

I am admittidly taking a biased stand on this.

In the end I dont think Willis or Ronnie B. have proven dick in the NFL. They both have all the potential in the world but that means nothing. You know what potential stands for? Nothing, all it means is you have not done anything yet. Either way, they are both going to a nightmare for years to come.

[FinNasty23]

While I agree that Fins fans and Bills fans would probably split on this decision... I dont see a quality in Willis that RonnieB doesnt have... but I cant say the same the other way around.

RonnieB is bigger, faster, harder to bring down (though Willis has the nastiest stiff arm in the league) better receiver and a better blocker. Ronnie has the break away speed and on any run, he can take it to the house. And RonnieB also doesnt have any serious injury history. He also has a better attitude which makes things easier for the whole organization (with contract issues and stuff)...

Both havent proven much and have alot of potential... but IMO RonnieB should be the better RB...

[FinNasty23]

What about Willis makes him better than RonnieB?

basicly.. what aspects of Willis do you like better?

[DMBcrew36]

What about Willis makes him better than RonnieB?

basicly.. what aspects of Willis do you like better?

my favorite aspect of Willis that I like better is that he doesn't wear a turqouise and orange jersey :bad:

[FinNasty23]

my favorite aspect of Willis that I like better is that he doesn't wear a turqouise and orange jersey :bad:

So thats all that Willis has on RonnieB, huh? :funny:

[gr8slayer]

While I agree that Fins fans and Bills fans would probably split on this decision... I dont see a quality in Willis that RonnieB doesnt have... but I cant say the same the other way around.

RonnieB is bigger, faster, harder to bring down (though Willis has the nastiest stiff arm in the league) better receiver and a better blocker. Ronnie has the break away speed and on any run, he can take it to the house. And RonnieB also doesnt have any serious injury history. He also has a better attitude which makes things easier for the whole organization (with contract issues and stuff)...

Both havent proven much and have alot of potential... but IMO RonnieB should be the better RB...
Ronnie bigger than Willis? They are the same size on paper, Willis looks thicker IMO. Secondly, what is this injury history you speak of? One injury does not make you an injury prone player. Injury prone would be more like Julius Jones or Kevin Everett (multiple ACL tears).

[FinNasty23]

Ronnie bigger than Willis? They are the same size on paper, Willis looks thicker IMO. Secondly, what is this injury history you speak of? One injury does not make you an injury prone player. Injury prone would be more like Julius Jones or Kevin Everett (multiple ACL tears).
RonnieB is 6'0 235
Willis is 6'0 228
not a big difference, but he is bigger. Also, the NFL will bulk him up more. RonnieB is definatly thicker than Willis though. If someone could post some pics (without pads on) of the 2 to compare, that would be great...

And I never said Willis was injury prone... just that he has had a very severe injury to maybe the most important part of the body for RBs... the knee... which makes is durability slightly more of a concern than someone who hasnt had an injury like that. I aint sayin he cant handle a heavy workload or anything...

Nothing I said was anti-Willis (he is a hell of a RB)... more just like pro-RonnieB...

But can you deny that RonnieB is superior to Willis in all the aspects I listed?

I dont expect any of you to hate on Willis... he is probably the favorite player of most of you guys... but can you say that Willis is better than RonnieB at any of those things?

What about Willis, IYO, is better than RonnieB?

I am more of just trying to debate a little... I will start it off for you guys... Willis has a better stiff-arm than RonnieB...

But that is the only thing I can think of... can you name anything else?

[gr8slayer]

Ronnie is 6'0 235
Willis is 6'0 228
not a big difference, but he is bigger. Also, the NFL will bulk him up more. Ronnie is definatly thicker than Willis though. If someone could post some pics of the 2 to compare, that would be great...

And I never said Willis was injury prone... just that he has had a very severe injury to maybe the most important part of the body for RBs... the knee.

Nothing I said was anti-Willis... more just like pro-Ronnie...
And I completely understand. I would expect you to be biased twords your teams RB. I respect that. But I can tell you that a torn ACL is nothing today. I tore my ACL and was back in six months.

And honestly. It doesnt seem to be affecting Willis one bit.

[gr8slayer]

Here are their pictures.

[gr8slayer]

Sorry man, i could only find action shots. I honestly think that Willis is clearly thicker now.

[Crisis]

Willis is much more of a power back than Brown, there's no arguement there.

Brown has the speed that Willis hasn't had since the Fiesta Bowl though...

[gr8slayer]

Willis is much more of a power back than Brown, there's no arguement there.

Brown has the speed that Willis hasn't had since the Fiesta Bowl though...
I agree with you there. I still think Willis has speed he just has those freakishly long strides. But Ronnie is no doubt faster past the LOS.

[Crisis]

Willis can't outrun most linebackers...

Sorry, but he's a pure power back workhorse runner now. He's not the threat to go 70 yards to the house on any given play.

Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing.

[FinNasty23]

Here are their pictures.

wow... from those pics... I would agree that Willis looks thicker.

But that is a terrible pic of Ronnie (I thought it was Ricky at first glance by how thin RonnieB looks)

I have a test tommorrow, and I am studying so I dont have time to find a better one. Can someone post a better pic of RonnieB than that? One that isnt from directly in front of him, so you can see how thick he really is...

[FinNasty23]

Willis is much more of a power back than Brown, there's no arguement there.

Brown has the speed that Willis hasn't had since the Fiesta Bowl though...
I think they have 2 different types of power...

Willis puts harder hits on defenders... more punishing

But RonnieB has the kind of power that makes him harder to bring down... He has incredible leg drive and will literally drag multiple defenders... (the perfect stat to back this up would be Yards After Contact - anyone know where to find that to compare the 2? or maybe a stat of broken tackles if it exists?)

Here is a run of RonnieB that is a perfect example of his type of power. He is just so hard to bring down...
http://www.opethforum.com/forum/brownbreaktackles.gif He breaks 6 or 7 tackles on this run... http://images.finheaven.com/forums/smilies/eek.gif

[Samphin1]

We had this discussion on here before the season started. It was harder then to argue for Brown since he hadn't played a down in the NFL yet. However, given that he is a rookie, with less SEVERE injuries and seeing how well he has done not only RUNNING the ball, but RECEIVING as well, has been phenominal. One aspect of Ronnie's game that everyone seems to be forgetting is how well he has blocked on blitzing defensive players. Our QB's have only been sacked I think 14-18 times this year. Well, it could be up in the high 20's if it weren't for the stellar pick ups of Brown.

I am not sure how Willis compares in that aspect. I don't even know if Buffalo really expects him too, which doesn't mean he can't do it. I do know that Willis is deceptively fast. Meaning he is a lot faster than people give him credit for. I have seen him hit the edge multiple times when I thought the play was going to be pushed out of bounds. And yes, Willis lays one of the most brutal stiff arms in the game.

I don't know, both are good. I guess the injury history and my bias means I side with Ronnie but I don't think you can go wrong with either one.

I don't buy the attitude theory either. Remember, Ronnie held out of camp for quite awhile which people are crucifying Willis for before he does it.

[FinNasty23]

Willis can't outrun most linebackers...

Sorry, but he's a pure power back workhorse runner now. He's not the threat to go 70 yards to the house on any given play.

Not saying that's necessarily a bad thing.

Who would you rather have? Willis or Ronnie?

[FinNasty23]

here is a much better pic of Ronnie... it is from college (it is the first pic I found and I dont have much time to look because I have to study... damn test) but that pic of Ronnie that was posted made him look like a CB...

http://www.ronniebrown23.com/multimedia/images/brown.jpg as you can see... the kid is stacked!

[Stewie]

Brown sucks. He has no moves. Just runs real hard. That works great when you're a rookie and nobody knows your true style. And lets not kid ourselves, if he was carrying the load he'd be worn down, now that we're passed the "college" half of the schedule. He's in the perfect situation playing on a crappy team with no expectations next to a very talented pothead.

Willis sucks less. He has the moves and the talent all over brown, but his attitude sucks. It's too bad, cause he has a good work ethic (as evidenced by coming back from the college injury.) Unfortunately, Willis probably saw dollar signs lighting the end of the tunnel, instead of the glamour as being one of the best backs in the NFL.

[TedMock]

This is a tough call. On paper, the casual fan will, and should, automatically pick Brown. Personally, I have no problem taking either guy. They're both studs. What Miami did, and what Buffalo grossly failed to do, was improve the offensive line. Both teams hired two of the best o-line coaches in the NFL, no question about it. However, Miami's GM went out and found some talented players for their guy to coach. Our GM has not lifted a finger for Jim McNally. Even he, one of the best o-line coaches around can't fix this pile of poop we call a line. McGahee has nowhere to run, period. I wonder if he were able to hit a hole clean, and break outside, how dangerous he might be. I don't know how much speed he's lost, but he WAS much faster than Brown pre-draft. Brown ran a 4.4 in the 40, while McGahee ran a 4.24 which is ridiculous. McGahee also benched 375 versus Brown's 330. Again, I'm not bashing Brown at all. The guy is a beast. I just wonder how good McGahee could be behind quality blockers. Links are below.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/brown_ronnie
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/mcgahee_willis

[mysticsoto]

In truth, right now, I would probably take Brown. Willis is great at continuing to run and not going down easily, but he has disappointed me in the receiving category and more than anything else, he has angered me in the blocking category. Willis is TERRIBLE at blocking and picking up a blitzer or just in helping keep someone off JP!!! He is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE!!! If I was Mularkey, I would tell him that he needs to improve that or we're going after Reggie Bush and trading him away... How can it be possible that Mularkey has to put in Shaud Williams at 3rd down to help with the block b'cse Willis sucks at blocking? All that bull***** that Mularkey says about keeping Willis fresh is just that...bull*****. McGahee can't block for ***** and that's why he's taken out on 3rd downs alot!!!

[FinNasty23]

Brown sucks. He has no moves. Just runs real hard. That works great when you're a rookie and nobody knows your true style. And lets not kid ourselves, if he was carrying the load he'd be worn down, now that we're passed the "college" half of the schedule. He's in the perfect situation playing on a crappy team with no expectations next to a very talented pothead.

Willis sucks less. He has the moves and the talent all over brown, but his attitude sucks. It's too bad, cause he has a good work ethic (as evidenced by coming back from the college injury.) Unfortunately, Willis probably saw dollar signs lighting the end of the tunnel, instead of the glamour as being one of the best backs in the NFL.
And the Billszone Award for "Most Insightful and Informative Post of the Year" goes to....

(drum roll)

PaulB!!! Congratulations! Come on up!


..........

But really... they both suck? :coocoo:

While RonnieB doesnt have jump cuts like LT(neither does Willis)... RonnieB makes defenders miss. and thats all that matters...
And what does the Rookie Wall have to do with who is gunna be better???

oh, and remember PaulB... Like RonnieB, Willis hasnt carried the load for a 16 game season either...

[FinNasty23]

This is a tough call. On paper, the casual fan will, and should, automatically pick Brown. Personally, I have no problem taking either guy. They're both studs. What Miami did, and what Buffalo grossly failed to do, was improve the offensive line. Both teams hired two of the best o-line coaches in the NFL, no question about it. However, Miami's GM went out and found some talented players for their guy to coach. Our GM has not lifted a finger for Jim McNally. Even he, one of the best o-line coaches around can't fix this pile of poop we call a line. McGahee has nowhere to run, period. I wonder if he were able to hit a hole clean, and break outside, how dangerous he might be. I don't know how much speed he's lost, but he WAS much faster than Brown pre-draft. Brown ran a 4.4 in the 40, while McGahee ran a 4.24 which is ridiculous. McGahee also benched 375 versus Brown's 330. Again, I'm not bashing Brown at all. The guy is a beast. I just wonder how good McGahee could be behind quality blockers. Links are below.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2005/brown_ronnie
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/mcgahee_willis

Was the 4.24 an official time? or just something that Miami did in practice one day? Ronnie was unofficially clocked pre-draft at 4.32.

And there is NO WAY Willis runs a 4.24 right now... I would guess he is in the high 4.4s or low 4.5s... Had Willis not gotten injured, he would have been nasty with his combo of speed and power... but unfortunatly injuries are a part of the game and have to be taken into account...

P.S. - by the way, all of our starting o-linemen were on our roster last year. 4 outa 5 are the same starters from last year, and the 5th is our RT Vernon Carey who rode the pine all of last season...

[Stewie]

And the Billszone Award for "Most Insightful and Informative Post of the Year" goes to....

(drum roll)

PaulB!!! Congratulations! Come on up!


..........

But really... they both suck? :coocoo:

While RonnieB doesnt have jump cuts like LT(neither does Willis)... RonnieB makes defenders miss. and thats all that matters...
And what does the Rookie Wall have to do with who is gunna be better???

oh, and remember PaulB... Like RonnieB, Willis hasnt carried the load for a 16 game season either...

I think it's funny as hell how everyone who has a different opinion than you is wrong.

Your original post asked who you would rather have, not who is better. Two completely different questions. If you asked me who was better, E Moulds or TO, I'd say TO. But I'd rather have E Moulds.

I never said Willis wouldn't wear down. Didn't even imply it. You did. I agree with you, but that wasn't my point.

All this talk about 40 times and player weight is garbage. It's stuff scouts talk about to make themselves more valuable. Do you think human beings have the ability to accurately press stopwatch buttons at tenth, let alone hundreths of a second intervals? Do you really think someone being 6 pounds heavier than someone else matters at all on a football field?

Bottom line: until he proves otherwise, RB is a one trick pony. It's a good trick, and he runs hard, no doubt. But one trick pony's have a tendency to flame out in the NFL.

[FinNasty23]

In truth, right now, I would probably take Brown. Willis is great at continuing to run and not going down easily, but he has disappointed me in the receiving category and more than anything else, he has angered me in the blocking category. Willis is TERRIBLE and blocking and picking up a blitzer or just in helping keep someone off JP!!! He is ABSOLUTELY TERRIBLE!!! If I was Mularkey, I would tell him that he needs to improve that or we're going after Reggie Bush and trading him away... How can it be possible that Mularkey has to put in Shaud Williams at 3rd down to help with the block b'cse Willis sucks at blocking? All that bull***** that Mularkey says about keeping Willis fresh is just that...bull*****. McGahee can't block for ***** and that's why he's taken out on 3rd downs alot!!!

I know nothing about Willis's pass blocking... but RonnieB has been phenominal in this aspect! I honestly havent seen him miss a block or give up a sack the entire season, and he is a BIG reason why we havent given up too many sacks this year... His blitz recognition and pickup I swear is something you would expect out of a 7 year vet... Honestly... Check it out this weekend while watchin the game. You are probably gunna try to bring the heat on Gus (most do). There should be multiple occasions for you to witness it...

[Samphin1]

Brown sucks. He has no moves. Just runs real hard. That works great when you're a rookie and nobody knows your true style. And lets not kid ourselves, if he was carrying the load he'd be worn down, now that we're passed the "college" half of the schedule. He's in the perfect situation playing on a crappy team with no expectations next to a very talented pothead.
Willis sucks less. He has the moves and the talent all over brown, but his attitude sucks. It's too bad, cause he has a good work ethic (as evidenced by coming back from the college injury.) Unfortunately, Willis probably saw dollar signs lighting the end of the tunnel, instead of the glamour as being one of the best backs in the NFL.


Actually, Ronnie has a few moves. Perhap you haven't seen them since you are a Bills fan. Ronnie uses his spin move quite effectively. He also has an uncanny knack for shaking defenders and staying upright. Perhaps this weekend you will be able to see some of his moves. :)

[FinNasty23]

I think it's funny as hell how everyone who has a different opinion than you is wrong.

Your original post asked who you would rather have, not who is better. Two completely different questions. If you asked me who was better, E Moulds or TO, I'd say TO. But I'd rather have E Moulds.

I never said Willis wouldn't wear down. Didn't even imply it. You did. I agree with you, but that wasn't my point.

All this talk about 40 times and player weight is garbage. It's stuff scouts talk about to make themselves more valuable. Do you think human beings have the ability to accurately press stopwatch buttons at tenth, let alone hundreths of a second intervals? Do you really think someone being 6 pounds heavier than someone else matters at all on a football field?

Bottom line: until he proves otherwise, RB is a one trick pony. It's a good trick, and he runs hard, no doubt. But one trick pony's have a tendency to flame out in the NFL.

1. I posted the award thing as a joke (dont take it personal)because saying Willis and RonnieB suck is just rediculous... They are both extremely talented RBs...

2. I should have worded the question a little better. I meant like if you were building a team, who would you want... obviously you should choose the one that will be better. For example... I wouldnt choose Chambers over someone like Moss... (sorry I didnt clearify it better)

3. I aint to sure if I am reading this right...
I never said Willis wouldn't wear down. Didn't even imply it. You did. I agree with you, but that wasn't my point. but if you are saying that I implied that Ronnie wouldnt wear down during his rookie season... please post it... because I never said that (and if thats not what you meant.... then just ignore "3" :funny: )

4. and no I dont think 6lbs or tenths of a second on a 40 time (I didnt even bring up 40 times) matter at all. I posted earlier some of the aspects of Ronnieb that I preferd over Willis... I said Ronnie was bigger and faster (I was thinking at the time that Willis was more around 220-225) So I was thinking Ronnie had 10-15lbs on Willis which would make a difference. Then someone posted that Willis that they were the same around the same size, so I looked it up and posted their official sizes...

5. And can you explain what you mean by Ronnie being a "one trick pony"? (since he was the most versitle and complete RB in the draft) What about Willis's game makes him a "multilple trick pony" compared to RonnieB?

[FinNasty23]

Actually, Ronnie has a few moves. Perhap you haven't seen them since you are a Bills fan. Ronnie uses his spin move quite effectively. He also has an uncanny knack for shaking defenders and staying upright. Perhaps this weekend you will be able to see some of his moves. :)

exactly... RonnieB's moves arent flashy like an LT or Priest... but they are very effective and make defenders miss...

[Stewie]

Look, I think Brown is a talented back. That's why he went to Auburn and got drafted really early into the best league in the world.

The stuff about 40's I wasn't directing at you, just at the thread readers in general.

To answer your first question: I just think McGahee is a better overall back. There, that's simple. :)

[madness]

I think my avatar and title says it all.

And yes, I am biased. :D

[Patrick76777]

Hey guys, in case you didn’t notice, two of the proudest franchises in the league are both playing terrible football.

Both teams Suck!

Who cares who has the better running back right now!




Yes, yes, I know it’s a message board!

[FinNasty23]

Look, I think Brown is a talented back. That's why he went to Auburn and got drafted really early into the best league in the world.

The stuff about 40's I wasn't directing at you, just at the thread readers in general.

To answer your first question: I just think McGahee is a better overall back. There, that's simple. :)

and it is just fine for you to think that... you arnt wrong for thinking that...

But go into some more detail. Like what do you think Willis does better than RonnieB?

I am just curious...

[Muck]

Ronnie bigger than Willis? They are the same size on paper, Willis looks thicker IMO. Secondly, what is this injury history you speak of? One injury does not make you an injury prone player. Injury prone would be more like Julius Jones or Kevin Everett (multiple ACL tears).

Willis tore the LCL in the same knee his senior year of high school in '99.

In the bowl game vs. Ohio State, he tore the ACL, MCL and PCL.

I wouldn't say he's injury prone. Just that he's suffered a lot of trauma to that joint.

[FinNasty23]

Willis tore the LCL in the same knee his senior year of high school in '99.

In the bowl game vs. Ohio State, he tore the ACL, MCL and PCL.

I wouldn't say he's injury prone. Just that he's suffered a lot of trauma to that joint.
wow...I didnt know about the injury in high school... that knee has really taken a beating...

[gr8slayer]

and it is just fine for you to think that... you arnt wrong for thinking that...

But go into some more detail. Like what do you think Willis does better than RonnieB?

I am just curious...
Stiff arm and all around better power.

[gr8slayer]

Here's another picture of Brown.

[gr8slayer]

Ronnie Brown:

Bench - 330
Power Clean - 365
40 - 4.4

Willis McGahee:

Bench - 375
Power Clean - Cant find
40 - 4.2

This was the Campus Agility Test results for both.

Im quite sure that Willis' bench has gone up being in the league just that much longer. That's not to say that Ronnie Brown isnt powerful (upper body anyway) just not as. I'll keep searching for Willis' power clean.

Im guessing that the reason I cant find the power clean is the obvious. At the time he had just had knee surgery.

[FinNasty23]

Ronnie Brown:

Bench - 330
Power Clean - 365
40 - 4.4

Willis McGahee:

Bench - 375
Power Clean - Cant find
40 - 4.2

This was the Campus Agility Test results for both.

Im quite sure that Willis' bench has gone up being in the league just that much longer. That's not to say that Ronnie Brown isnt powerful (upper body anyway) just not as. I'll keep searching for Willis' power clean.

Im guessing that the reason I cant find the power clean is the obvious. At the time he had just had knee surgery.
well... the 4.2 40 is pretty irrellevent now... he doesnt have that kinda speed anymore... and unfortunatly... he may never again...

RonnieB is the faster of the 2 now... but all the benchpress and 40 times dont really matter that much anyway...

[FinNasty23]

Stiff arm and all around better power.

I will definatly give you the stiff arm. he is the best at that...

Power is different though.

Willis's is more powerful when talking about punishing people. He puts big hits on defenders.

However, I think RonnieB is more powerful when talking about who is harder to bring down...

[gr8slayer]

Found a power clean for Willis. 405. That is pure power. Squats dont mean crap its all power clean.

[FinNasty23]

Found a power clean for Willis. 405. That is pure power. Squats dont mean crap its all power clean.

was that pre injury?

[gr8slayer]

was that pre injury?
Yes but I can tell you after having had the same injury Willis had, it isnt that hard to come back from it. I am stronger now than I ever was before I tore all my lig.

[sjoyce]

Willis hands down! What hes done with no O line is incredible! WILLIS IS THE MAN!

[LtFinFan66]

Here are their pictures.

More RB pics:
http://rds.yahoo.com/l=IVI/SIG=12elsoobd/EXP=1133525285/*-http%3A//media.theinsiders.com/Media/Other/118838_RBrown.JPGhttp://img481.imageshack.us/img481/387/202389071oa.jpg
http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/8259/200968839ni.jpg
http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/8221/fromthegame191409wc.jpg

[TedMock]

Was the 4.24 an official time? or just something that Miami did in practice one day? Ronnie was unofficially clocked pre-draft at 4.32.

And there is NO WAY Willis runs a 4.24 right now... I would guess he is in the high 4.4s or low 4.5s... Had Willis not gotten injured, he would have been nasty with his combo of speed and power... but unfortunatly injuries are a part of the game and have to be taken into account...

P.S. - by the way, all of our starting o-linemen were on our roster last year. 4 outa 5 are the same starters from last year, and the 5th is our RT Vernon Carey who rode the pine all of last season...

Yes, but they have 1 full season together. I believe McKinney was always a Dolphin. Last year you guys drafted Vern Carey (didn't play much, but obviously a great pick now), and you signed Jeno James and McIntosh. I can't remember his first name. Unfortunately for you, the QB and RB situation fell apart. My point is that you guys went out, found quality lineman, and a quality offensive line coach. We just found the coach. It's not like these guys in Miami have all been playing together long. They're well coached, and the continuity is shaping up for them in year 2. The Bills are going to have at least two new starters next season, possibly 3. The coach will help, but it takes time playing next to each other. We'll probably have to deal with early season mishaps.

The 40 times are off the NFL.com pre-draft site. I'm not sure if it was considered official. I believe those times are taken at the pro-day workouts. I remember Ronnie Brown drastically improving his speed for the combine. That was quite impressive.

[gr8slayer]

More RB pics:
http://rds.yahoo.com/l=IVI/SIG=12elsoobd/EXP=1133525285/*-http%3A//media.theinsiders.com/Media/Other/118838_RBrown.JPGhttp://img481.imageshack.us/img481/387/202389071oa.jpg
http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/8259/200968839ni.jpg
http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/8221/fromthegame191409wc.jpg
Still doesnt look as big as Willis.

[Stewie]

and it is just fine for you to think that... you arnt wrong for thinking that...

But go into some more detail. Like what do you think Willis does better than RonnieB?

I am just curious...

I think these things made or make him a better back:

-He came from a better college program
-He has a more deceptive burst
-He has a better stiff arm
-He has better downfield moves
-He gets stronger at the end of games
-He can run vertically or horizontally with equal success (in other words, he has the capability to bounce it outside if the gap isn't there)
-He came back from a devastating injury, so he's proven his drive to succeed


That said, I think Brown and McGahee are both effective backs when used properly. But I think Brown's style will lend him to wear down faster, and I just think McGahee has more talent.

Personally, I think Miami has a great RB situation for another 3-4 years if they can convince Ricky and Ronnie they need each other, for the benefit of both. If Brown is smart, the mileage he saves by having a guy like Ricky could lead him to getting 2 big contract extensions instead of 1. After a few years, Ricky can retire to amsterdam and Ronnie can be the man.

[FinNasty23]

I think these things made or make him a better back:

-He came from a better college program
-He has a more deceptive burst
-He has a better stiff arm
-He has better downfield moves
-He gets stronger at the end of games
-He can run vertically or horizontally with equal success (in other words, he has the capability to bounce it outside if the gap isn't there)
-He came back from a devastating injury, so he's proven his drive to succeed


That said, I think Brown and McGahee are both effective backs when used properly. But I think Brown's style will lend him to wear down faster, and I just think McGahee has more talent.

Personally, I think Miami has a great RB situation for another 3-4 years if they can convince Ricky and Ronnie they need each other, for the benefit of both. If Brown is smart, the mileage he saves by having a guy like Ricky could lead him to getting 2 big contract extensions instead of 1. After a few years, Ricky can retire to amsterdam and Ronnie can be the man.

What does his college program have to do with anything? I mean... LT went to freakin TCU?!? Plus, Auburn has a history of producing some amazing RBs...

Regardless... We will see how they do tomorrow... Pay close attention to Ronnie. Pass blocking, broken tackles, speed, and downfield moves(spin, hurdle, and his non-flashy jukes that still make people miss).

You will see why Fin fans are so high on him...

Nasty

[Stewie]

What does his college program have to do with anything? I mean... LT went to freakin TCU?!? Plus, Auburn has a history of producing some amazing RBs...

Regardless... We will see how they do tomorrow... Pay close attention to Ronnie. Pass blocking, broken tackles, speed, and downfield moves(spin, hurdle, and his non-flashy jukes that still make people miss).

You will see why Fin fans are so high on him...

Nasty

Let me ask you a question: If you're looking at two recent MBA graduates, one went to Harvard and the other went to the University of Phoenix, would you assume Harvard did a better job educating their graduate? If the two guys had similar grades going in, and similar grades coming out, wouldn't you still assume the Harvard guy knows more?

The program has a lot to do with it. Garbage in garbage out still applies here. Which is why pure talents like LT come from schools like TCU, because even a sorry program like that can't screw up his skills. But don't tell me that a qualty program has nothing to do with developing talent. And I don't think you have a leg to stand on if you're going to tell me Auburn has a better football program than Miami.

One more thing.. I noticed that after all that pestering, the college program is the only point you took me up on. Is that because you know everything else I said is true?

[!Papacrunk!]

Willis tore the LCL in the same knee his senior year of high school in '99.
In the bowl game vs. Ohio State, he tore the ACL, MCL and PCL.
I wouldn't say he's injury prone. Just that he's suffered a lot of trauma to that joint.
:bigwave: :bigwave:

Daddy, is that you, it's me, Buh Buh?

[Devin]

Let me ask you a question: If you're looking at two recent MBA graduates, one went to Harvard and the other went to the University of Phoenix, would you assume Harvard did a better job educating their graduate? If the two guys had similar grades going in, and similar grades coming out, wouldn't you still assume the Harvard guy knows more?

The program has a lot to do with it. Garbage in garbage out still applies here. Which is why pure talents like LT come from schools like TCU, because even a sorry program like that can't screw up his skills. But don't tell me that a qualty program has nothing to do with developing talent. And I don't think you have a leg to stand on if you're going to tell me Auburn has a better football program than Miami.

One more thing.. I noticed that after all that pestering, the college program is the only point you took me up on. Is that because you know everything else I said is true?

I gotta disagree here.

I honestly dont believe the program has much of anything to do with it.

LT came from TCU, Ricky from Texas, Larry Johnson from Penn State...........etc

A good running back is a good running back. And on draft day or throughout their career it makes no difference.

[Stewie]

I gotta disagree here.
I honestly dont believe the program has much of anything to do with it.
LT came from TCU, Ricky from Texas, Larry Johnson from Penn State...........etc
A good running back is a good running back. And on draft day or throughout their career it makes no difference.

So you're saying that college coaches and the program have absolutely no influence on the development of a running back?

Why bother having a rb coach then? I mean, if a good RB is a good RB, then it doesn't matter. Right?

Seems to me every college and pro program disagrees with you.

Bottom line: quality programs attract the best coaches, and the best coaches get the most out of the talent they recruit.

[FinsAreLife]

Willis, obviously.



thats a tough choice nasty, willis is an excellent back and at this time a top 5 back in the league.....he has downside, injury and oncomign errogance, he brags about himself but does not back it up with his play that much

ronnie though is young, and deff emerging in his rookie year, yardage wise they are both great to have and id take either, their both fun to watch but id take ronnie, he can catch, hes bigger, hes younger and he humble, idk but i really like him....

[Mr. Cynical]

Brown has improved with the presence of Williams and plays better late in the game when he's fairly fresh. In other words, he's better in a 2 back system (so far). He could have the chance to be the main guy next year.

Willis is a workhorse who gets better the more he carries the ball.
Give me the workhorse any day.

Perfect analysis. Was going to say the same thing.

In fact, it would be really interesting to see Willis' YPC before and after 20 carries. My bet is the avg is at least 30% higher after 20. He is one of those backs that needs alot of carries to get into his groove.

[MinnesotaFury]

Tough call, Fin fans will be biased towards Ronnie and Bills fans towards willis.

Talent wise I think Willis is the better athlete.

Attitude wise deffo Brown.
Thats why you got the vikings fan here....

I pick RonnieB just because hes less injury prone, and i think he has more of a future ahead of him. We've only seen 11 games from him, but really if you ask me, Willis kinda let me down this season. I thought he was going to be better than he has done... plus, i think Ronnie has a bit more power as he bangs it in the endzone a bit better imo. Unless Willis gets 1500+ this season, then im gonna have to go with brown.

[FinNasty23]

Let me ask you a question: If you're looking at two recent MBA graduates, one went to Harvard and the other went to the University of Phoenix, would you assume Harvard did a better job educating their graduate? If the two guys had similar grades going in, and similar grades coming out, wouldn't you still assume the Harvard guy knows more?

The program has a lot to do with it. Garbage in garbage out still applies here. Which is why pure talents like LT come from schools like TCU, because even a sorry program like that can't screw up his skills. But don't tell me that a qualty program has nothing to do with developing talent. And I don't think you have a leg to stand on if you're going to tell me Auburn has a better football program than Miami.

One more thing.. I noticed that after all that pestering, the college program is the only point you took me up on. Is that because you know everything else I said is true?

I didnt respond to all your points, because I realized that no matter what... we are gunna disagree... I figured we'd just see them match up Sunday... I just responed to the college program thing because I thought it was a little rediculous and exagerated.

I agree that the college program plays a minor role... but not a significant one. If they are in a good college program that faces top defenses on a regular basis... I think that is the important thing. You are gunna have good running back coaches at any big football program.

[Crisis]

Ronnie is so humble that he held out of training camp to get a bigger contract.

[FinNasty23]

Ronnie is so humble that he held out of training camp to get a bigger contract.

ya he held out... but in all fairness, the fins were lowballing RonnieB pretty bad. He was slotted, but the fins were offering him way less than his slot. It more had to do with our front office being cheap than him being a greedy little b!tc#....

[dolphinssuck]

Both are very good but I must go with Willis because his O line is not up to snuff and he still puts up big numbers! But his injury he suffered can bring up some questions but hes still a top back in the NFL! Ronnie is a talented back but has a better O line to help him along! Not taking anything away from him hes still good I just like Willis and being a Bills fan I guess Im showing favortism!