OK, DevilPaul, debt paid...

[Ickybaluky]

You're on! Except for one thing. I will change my signature to "Tom Brady is the next Joe Montana" if they win 12 or more games. If they fail to do that, however, your signature will read "The Patriots are the biggest fluke team ever in the history of the NFL and should have asterisks next to their championships".

You won, fair and square. No reason to wait to pay up.

[Michael82]

:rofl: I love your new sig. BTW, where ya been lately? Haven't seen ya here in a while. Too depressed that the injury bug killed your team and the fact that Belichick lost his most prized possessions (his OC and DC)? Or still celebrating the damn Super Bowl?

[LtFinFan66]

Way to pay your debt!

[Iehoshua]

The only fluke is that you agreed to that bet, NE39.

If the Pats are a fluke, then by God, I wish the Bills would fluke it up for 3 years so we'd win 3 Superbowl titles...

Tom Brady isn't the next Joe Montana. There will only be 1 Joe.

However, Brady is better than Joe. Period.

[Michael82]

The only fluke is that you agreed to that bet, NE39.

If the Pats are a fluke, then by God, I wish the Bills would fluke it up for 3 years so we'd win 3 Superbowl titles...

Tom Brady isn't the next Joe Montana. There will only be 1 Joe.

However, Brady is better than Joe. Period.
Brady Better than Montana? Are you insane? :ill:

[Iehoshua]

Name one receiver Brady had that could hold Jerry Rice's jock (in Rice's prime while he was with Joe).

:tap:

[SquishDaFish]

Your crazy darth. Brady is great and one of the better QBs of all time. But Montana had a great career and is one of the all time GREATS. Brady might end there also after his career is over.

[Iehoshua]

Name one receiver Brady had that could hold Jerry Rice's jock (in Rice's prime while he was with Joe).

:tap:
:tap:

Still waiting...

[gr8slayer]

Name one receiver Brady had that could hold Jerry Rice's jock (in Rice's prime while he was with Joe).

:tap:
David Givens!

[Mr. Miyagi]

NE39, as much as I dislike your team, I respect and applaud you for honoring the bet and man-up on it. :miyagi:

[Iehoshua]

David Givens! So you think David Givens is a good as Jerry Rice was in his prime?

:rofl:

[Mr. Miyagi]

So you think David Givens is a good as Jerry Rice was in his prime?

:rofl:
No, he thinks Givens is better!

[Iehoshua]

No, he thinks Givens is better!
:roflmao:

[Ickybaluky]

:rofl: I love your new sig. BTW, where ya been lately? Haven't seen ya here in a while. Too depressed that the injury bug killed your team and the fact that Belichick lost his most prized possessions (his OC and DC)? Or still celebrating the damn Super Bowl?

I've been lurking. I've been hesitant to post lately because people around here are so down. Some posters are getting bi-polar. After Tedy Bruschi came back the hatred for the Pats reached an all-time high, so I figured I'd be better off laying low for a while.

I'm not down about the Pats. They obviously aren't the same team, but they have battled this year and look like they will get to host a playoff game (thanks to a crappy division). Granted, their prospects for winning anything in the playoffs are pretty poor, given their secondary is a complete trainwreck. However, I still enjoy watching the games and have fun anyway. You don't win every season, right?

[Ickybaluky]

The only fluke is that you agreed to that bet, NE39.

If the Pats are a fluke, then by God, I wish the Bills would fluke it up for 3 years so we'd win 3 Superbowl titles...

Tom Brady isn't the next Joe Montana. There will only be 1 Joe.

However, Brady is better than Joe. Period.

Wow, even I'm not ready to go that far yet. Brady is only 28, so he has to keep it up a few more years before you can say he rates with or ahead of Montana, IMO.

Also, don't forget that Joe won his first Super Bowl with the likes of Dwight Clark, Freddie Solomon, Earl Cooper, Charlie Young, Paul Hofer, Ricky Patton, Johnny Davis, Walt Easley and Bill Ring at the skill positions. That team had a crappy running game, but Joe was magnificent in leading them to a championship (defense was great, though).

There is plenty of time to find out if Brady can reach that level. He is having his best season yet this year, IMO, and is just hitting his prime.

[Mudflap1]

Rice was also not around yet when they went 15-1 and won it all in 1984...

Jon

[Iehoshua]

Rice was also not around yet when they went 15-1 and won it all in 1984...

Jon
Tom Brady's never had an elite receiver during his 3 Superbowl wins.

Ever.

[DynaPaul]

You won, fair and square. No reason to wait to pay up.

I'm impressed man, you're definitely a man with honor. I wasn't sure if you'd pay up or not but I was wrong to doubt you. Hopefully next year things will be more competitive in our division and a lot more exciting. I think all of us AFC East fans are let down with the way things went down this year.

:rockon:

[sjoyce]

There is now way Brady is better than Joe Montana!:coocoo: Brady I will admit is a great QB BUT not a Joe Montana by no means!:lmao:

[X-Era]

You won, fair and square. No reason to wait to pay up.

Well done. Now as much as I hate Brady, I will also give him some props.

He, right now today, has the best pocket presence in the league. Only Peyton rivals him in this phase.

But, my opinion is that he would probably would go the route of Kurt Warner and be a clown if he played for an average or worse team. The same CANNOT be said for the TRUE stars like Peyton Manning.

Anyways, you deserve serious props for stepping up like this and doing this. You deserve all the respect in the world for being willing to accept when you are wrong, more people should be like you as far as thats concerned.

If I was able to give you positive rep, I would.

[Ickybaluky]

But, my opinion is that he would probably would go the route of Kurt Warner and be a clown if he played for an average or worse team. The same CANNOT be said for the TRUE stars like Peyton Manning.

Warner's downfall can be traced, in large part, to the injuries he suffered as his offensive line went to crap in St. Louis. He was never the same after the thumb injury.

As for Manning, the guy is a great player and I actually would be happy for him if he got his ring, if the Pats aren't going to win it. He deserves it. That said, the argument works both ways, and one has to wonder how Brady would do handing off to Engerrin James and throwing to the likes of Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Brandon Stokley and Dallas Clark.

It is funny the whole "system QB" argument, because people used to say the same thing about Montana. It was argued he was a product of the West Coast offense and Bill Walsh was the real reason he was so great. People didn't think he would be as good elsewhere, unlike the "true stars" like Dan Marino and John Elway.

However, one of the best games I ever saw Montana play was a playoff victory against Houston when he was in Kansas City. That was the Houston team that ran the run-n-shoot with Moon, and their defense had been taken over by Buddy Ryan. They were probably better than KC, and Montana was near the end of his career. He no longer could move like he did when he was younger, pretty much a pocket passer.

In the first half Ryan's defense blitzed the crap out of Montana, and he just stood in the pocket and kept trying to get the ball downfield. I remember he took a viscious beating early, and even threw a pick (maybe 2) in that first half as KC fell behind.

However, in the 2nd half, Montana started hitting some of those shots downfield and burning Houstion's 46 defense on the blitz. He his some big plays and Ryan had to back off the blitz because Montana was hitting big plays against it. KC ended up winning the game.

I remember being struck by how smart Montana was and how he showed so much patience. He knew going in he was going to take some big hits, but he also knew he had to hit some big plays downfield against that rush if KC was going to win. He stayed patient early on and was able to hit those plays and win the game.

So, I don't know how you quantify that, or measure it, but that is what made Montana great. He understood what he had to do for his team to win, and he went out and executed it despite facing a hard rush early on. He didn't panic, he managed the game for the win. He may not have had the prettiest numbers, but he won.

Sometimes there are hidden stats which show a QB's greatness. For instance, did you know that the Patriots WR are leading the NFL in yards-after-catch? If you look at them, you aren't going to find a T.O.- or Moss-type talent in the lot. However, the reason they do so well after the catch is because Brady is so good at getting the ball to the open guy and leading him to the open spot. You rarely see a Pats WR get lit up because he rarely throws the ball into traffic (unless it is a late-game/critical situation and he is forced to do it).

Seriously, it is uncanny how good Brady is at making the right read and getting the ball accurately to the open guy. That is what makes him great. I swear he has only had 2 or 3 bad throws all season. He has 8 picks, but a number of them were either deflections, late in games they trail and he has to force a ball because of the situation, or balls where the defender made a great play in single coverage. It is rare you look at it and say he made a terrible read or threw into double-coverage.

I remember even when Bledsoe was playing well here he would have 2-3 throws a game where you would just cringe, where he would be on fire and just make some monumentally stupid play seemingly out of the blue. Brady goes game after game without making those kinds of plays. It is to the point where you are almost shocked when it happens. It takes a lot of stress out of watching the games, because you expect him to do the right thing.

Montana, IMO, is the greatest QB I ever saw play. He threw more accurately, especially on the run, than anyone I've seen. He managed a game and was able to do what it took to win better than any other QB. The reason Brady is compared to him is because he has a lot of the same intangibles, the same accuracy and the willingness to keep working hard to get better despite his early success. IMO, those carry over into any pro system, unless someone plans on rolling out the wishbone in the NFL. The kids decision-making during games is as good as anyone in the NFL, including Manning.

Maybe you have to watch him a lot to appreciate it.


Anyways, you deserve serious props for stepping up like this and doing this. You deserve all the respect in the world for being willing to accept when you are wrong,

Thanks for the kind words, but it isn't like I'm a nobel candidate or anything. As far as accepting when I'm wrong, I've had some practice.

[Michael82]

I've been lurking. I've been hesitant to post lately because people around here are so down. Some posters are getting bi-polar. After Tedy Bruschi came back the hatred for the Pats reached an all-time high, so I figured I'd be better off laying low for a while.

I'm not down about the Pats. They obviously aren't the same team, but they have battled this year and look like they will get to host a playoff game (thanks to a crappy division). Granted, their prospects for winning anything in the playoffs are pretty poor, given their secondary is a complete trainwreck. However, I still enjoy watching the games and have fun anyway. You don't win every season, right?

bi-polar? :rofl: Yup, I can see that. Actually, the Bruschi stuff really made people not hate the Pats so much, but more him and ESPN. Just out of curiousity, what did you think of the Bruschi overkill? Any comments on it?

That's the sad thing about this year. The Pats aren't the same team this year and wouldn't come close to sniffing the playoffs on a regular year, but this isn't a regular year for this division. All the teams suck, the Patriots just seem to be the best out of everyone else. I will enjoy seeing them get killed in the playoffs though. Then again, with home field advantage in the first round, anything can happen. :scared:

[gr8slayer]

So you think David Givens is a good as Jerry Rice was in his prime?

:rofl:
Come on. Anyone with a fourth of a brain wouldnt seriously even mention the two names in the same sentence.

[Ickybaluky]

Just out of curiousity, what did you think of the Bruschi overkill? Any comments on it?

Yeah, even I thought it was way over-the-top. The ESPN coverage was to be expected because that is what they do (and why they suck). I thought the NFL naming him player of the week was a joke as well. It was pretty amazing that he was able to come back and play so many plays after only a few practices after so much time off, but it wasn't like he lit the world on fire in that game.

That said, it is an pretty amazing story given that nobody thought he could come back. You can't say he did it for the money, as he could have retired, collected the rest of his contract and been lined up with a cushy job doing PR work for the Pats. The offer was there and he turned it down to come back. Says a lot about him as a player, IMO.


Then again, with home field advantage in the first round, anything can happen.

I love the team battling, but I don't see it given the condition of their secondary. There are some floating the theory that the Pats coaches are having them playing very vanilla schemes because they are probably locked into the #4 seed. The theory is they will hope to get guys healthy and pull out their real tricky stuff in the playoffs.

I don't buy it, though.

I think their offense will be fine if they get guys healthy. Dillon, Graham, Givens and Faulk are about to return and will provide a boost.

Their OL has taken some hits, including their LT in Light (who recently had a setback and might not return this season) and C in Koppen. That is the two most-important OL positions. On the plus side, they drafted two OL this year who have been starting for them and will be good players. Mankins has done a solid job as a rookie at LT. Kaczur has been overmatched at times at LT, but has done better than I thought and probably starts at RT next year when Light gets back. The Pats have a good, young OL to built around for the long-term.

Getting Seymour and Bruschi back gives them a front-7. Bruschi moved to Ted Johnson's old LB slot and Vrabel is playing the other ILB position. That gives them a front-7 of Seymour-Wilfork-Warren-McGinest-Vrabel-Bruschi-Colvin, which is solid up front.

However, their secondary is a trainwreck and it isn't a fluke. Samuel and Wilson are good players, but their play is down because they aren't surrounded by good players and leaders like they were before. The rest of their secondary is rookies and guys they picked up off the street, and they can't stop anyone. I wouldn't be surprised if Brooks Bollinger passed for 300 yards this week.

The Pats were so effective on defense because they got early leads and were able to use exotic sub packages with a lot of situational play. Now, they are behind more and have to play more vanilla because they can't execute the basic stuff. They are struggling to rush the passer because they aren't getting into the favorable situations they used to, and it is compounding the problem.

To think they are going to roll out some exotic schemes with players who can't get the base stuff down is fantasy, IMO. Even with Brady having a great year, they can't beat a good team because their defense can't stop the pass anymore.