Bills can't afford 'O' line or DT in the 1st

[Yasgur's Farm]

Can you spell cap hell. How can anyone justify taking any 'O' lineman or DT in the 1st round. Have we not learned our lesson with the $9M the Bills pay Mike Williams.

1st round... A big speedy receiver with good hands... EMo is history as a Bill and we'll need some size opposite Lee Evans. In addition, look to pick up FA Antwaan Randle El or Reggie Wayne.

Lee Evans
FA (Antwaan Randle El or Reggie Wayne)
Rookie
Roscoe Parish
Josh Reed
Sam Aiken

2nd round... A big speedy CB... No way does Nate Clements deserve what he'll be getting as a FA. We'll need size to offset McGee.

McGee
King
Rookie
Greer
Thomas

3rd round #1... Run stuffing DT... I believe we'll switch to a 3/4 'D' due to the emergence of Angelo Crowell. Resigning Posey for cheap will round out a good LB quad. A DT rotation of Bannan, Anderson, Sape and rookie will be adequate. Say goodbye to Sam Adams.

Bannan
Anderson
Rookie
Sape

TKO
Crowell
Fletcher
Posey
Haggan
Ezekiel
Stamer

3rd round #2... A pass defender for SS... Coy Wire can handle the run aspect of that position. We'll bring the rookie in for obvious pass situations. Toodles to Lawyer Milloy and Troy Vincent. Baker starts at FS.

Wire
Baker
Rookie
Leonhard

4th round... OL depth... There will be a fair number of decent FA OT's available. I say we pick one up and move Gandy to LG. In addition, Duke Preston starts at center. We'll resign Teague for cheap if we can. He'll make an excellent versatile backup.

FA
Gandy
Preston
Villarial
Peters
Teague
Geisinger
Lawrence

Sure... I know we won't have the shut down 'D' we had last year... But it will be servicable and equally effective against the run and pass.

With these moves on the 'O'... we should experience some solid and balanced growth here.

Of course... throw it all out the window if we have a shot at Reggie Bush. <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_1380306-->

[JefftheBillsfan]

are you serious?

[OpIv37]

this team needs line help desperately. TD's plan of taking rejects from other teams and late round/undrafted FA's to "develop" hasn't worked at all (with the exception of Jason Peters). McGahee, Losman and Evans will never reach their full potential without adequate protection on O and a D that can get off the field.

If we have to pay first round $ to a lineman for either side of the ball, so be it. We can stay out of cap jail by cutting some dead weight in the form of useless overpaid vets (Vincent, Milloy, MOULDS, Adams, Mike Williams, Posey, Reed come to mind).

[DaBills]

If TD drops to the later rounds to get 'value' out of another line pick, I'm killin myself.


Either way, WR? Disagree. We absolutely need to build the OL.

[Captain Obvious]

Picking a OT or a DT in the 1st Round and giving him a huge signing bonus doesn't have to be a problem if that player is eventually a Probowler. A WR taking in the 1st Round could just as easily be a bust as a OL like Mike Williams.

[Devin]

pass whatever it is your smoking around.

[HHURRICANE]

are you serious?

I just thought the same thing!!

[Scumbag College]

The Bills need to use three of their four Day 1 picks on the OL and DL. They would be well advised to use their first two picks on the lines. If we're drafting safeties and receivers before lineman, I'll kick the neighbor's dog in April.

[OpIv37]

The Bills need to use three of their four Day 1 picks on the OL and DL. They would be well advised to use their first two picks on the lines. If we're drafting safeties and receivers before lineman, I'll kick the neighbor's dog in April.

if TD is still the GM we will be. We need to get that "best player available". Even if it means we have 19 safeties on the roster and 3 defensive tackles.

[Throne Logic]

Picking a OT or a DT in the 1st Round and giving him a huge signing bonus doesn't have to be a problem if that player is eventually a Probowler. A WR taking in the 1st Round could just as easily be a bust as a OL like Mike Williams.


True, however, I believe Draz was alluding to the fact that the draft is a crap shoot, regardless of what round you are picking in. The money would be better spent on a known commodity or two, rather than one huge unknown.

The perfect example is Mike Williams. Most people were pretty happy with that pick. Now he's an overpaid LG.

Linemen, on both sides of the ball, tend to take a couple of years to develop. Skill players (QB aside) tend to develop quicker. Furthermore, skill players (QB especially included) will have a much better opportunity to develop if you have a strong veteran line anchoring their respective sides of the ball. Proven fact, year after year. Games are ultimately won and lost based on what is happening in the trenches.

[Devin]

The perfect example is Mike Williams. Most people were pretty happy with that pick. Now he's an overpaid LG.


Backup LG.

[HHURRICANE]

First off Draz 54 needs to reconsider his post. We might as well draft USC's whole team because they would have more talent than what Draz has on the board!! :lmao:


With that said you always take DL's early and OL's later. DL's have a better chance of panning out as rookies because they can get by on their athleticism. OL's need time to adjust to the speed of the game. Robert Gallery is still trying to find his head from his ass and he had more hype than any OL since Manadarich. I would take DL's all the way through the 3rd round. I would not draft a receiver. PERIOD.

[Forward_Lateral]

What? The Bills have 8 million in cap room BEFORE cutting ANYONE. They are anything but in cap hell.

[ajsdx]

Dude...any situation where Coy Wire is in the game is an obvious passing situation.

[Scumbag College]

One other thing, I root for the Bills and watch every one of their games. No matter if it was during the Super Bowl years or during the dark ages of today.

However...

If Coy Wire is the starting SS on Opening Day 2006, I quit and will just watch golf or NASCAR or some other mindless crap on TV that Sunday.

[Turf]

if TD is still the GM we will be. We need to get that "best player available". Even if it means we have 19 safeties on the roster and 3 defensive tackles.


:funny: How true.

[TigerJ]

Changing to a 3-4 will require a lot more retooling than draz suggests. If you look around the league at teams running a succesful 3-4 today, the DEs are all athletic 300 lb guys who played DT in college. Aaron Schobel is a LB in the modern 3-4. Maybe Ryan Denney can Bulk up a bit for the role, but I have my doubts he's athletic enough. There is a big drop off in cap costs from #4 where Buffalo picked Mike Williams to the 7th or 8th spot where I think the Bills are likely to pick in the 2006 draft. Whether the Bills stay in a 4-3 or switch they desperately need quality big defensive linemen. and they won't get them in free agency. Buffalo also needs one more good offensive tackle or guard, and better depth on the O-line. I think Peters is going to be OK. Villarial is OK too. I'm hoping Preston will be able to take over at center. Gandy is a serviceable player who couldplay tackle for one more year if need be at tackle, or if Buffalo added a good tackle he could slide over to guard and be a pretty good one.l

[Demon]

My jaw will drop more in the 06 draft if we select a WR then it did when we selected Willis....

[Bmax]

Please and i will say this one time and one time only ...NO WR IN RD ONE

Drafting ol on the 2nd day is actually what put us in the position we are in today..

The talent is there in rd 1 .. We could always trade down get a extra pick and still pick up a quality dt or ot in rd one say pick 10- 15....

Let's see what's out there first before we go off the deep end and make crazy statements..

Many jr's still haven't declared yet... time will tell what this years crop brings....


Bmax

[Yasgur's Farm]

For all of you advocating we spend our entire day 1 on the 'O' line and DT situation... What do you propose we do about the exit (or decline of play) of Eric Moulds, Nate Clements, Lawyer Milloy and Troy Vincent?

It's all about balance and measured moves.

Given our needs and projected needs... I suggest you look at what may be available in FA at each position... set up a game plan there 1st... then you can plan a decent draft strategy accordingly.

Or you can jerk your knee and draft 8 'O' linemen and DT's.

[dannyek71]

Doing this will only be doing the same things we've been doing for years. Im a firm believer that winning starts up front, with the lines.

[Night Train]

Trade down and pick up an extra day 1 pick,giving us a total of 5. 6-7 OT's are projected for Round 1, so the quality is there.

Stick to OL and DL, for the most part.

[Earthquake Enyart]

There is something to be said about the initial premise.

Unless the lineman is an Orlando Pace sure thing, you are foolish to use a high 1st rounder on a OL. Look at all the money we have tied up in Big Fat Mike. Think Minnesota is happy paying McKinney big bucks? Who was that guy that Tampa drafted the year before that everyone thought we should have? With the cap, it's just too much money to tie up in the line. If you are drafting in the top 10, you almost have to use it on skill positions.

[BidsJr]

I would almost consider using the 6-10th pick on a linebacker before using it on an o-line guy. Get Greenway out of Iowa or Hawk from T-O$U. We'll need them anyway, and they are more of a sure thing than some fat pos o-lineman.

My preference would be to get a Big DT but you gotta have the right one fall to you those are risky as well.

[Patrick76777]

Can you spell cap hell. How can anyone justify taking any 'O' lineman or DT in the 1st round. Have we not learned our lesson with the $9M the Bills pay Mike Williams.

1st round... A big speedy receiver with good hands... EMo is history as a Bill and we'll need some size opposite Lee Evans. In addition, look to pick up FA Antwaan Randle El or Reggie Wayne.

Lee Evans
FA (Antwaan Randle El or Reggie Wayne)
Rookie
Roscoe Parish
Josh Reed
Sam Aiken

2nd round... A big speedy CB... No way does Nate Clements deserve what he'll be getting as a FA. We'll need size to offset McGee.

McGee
King
Rookie
Greer
Thomas

3rd round #1... Run stuffing DT... I believe we'll switch to a 3/4 'D' due to the emergence of Angelo Crowell. Resigning Posey for cheap will round out a good LB quad. A DT rotation of Bannan, Anderson, Sape and rookie will be adequate. Say goodbye to Sam Adams.

Bannan
Anderson
Rookie
Sape

TKO
Crowell
Fletcher
Posey
Haggan
Ezekiel
Stamer

3rd round #2... A pass defender for SS... Coy Wire can handle the run aspect of that position. We'll bring the rookie in for obvious pass situations. Toodles to Lawyer Milloy and Troy Vincent. Baker starts at FS.

Wire
Baker
Rookie
Leonhard

4th round... OL depth... There will be a fair number of decent FA OT's available. I say we pick one up and move Gandy to LG. In addition, Duke Preston starts at center. We'll resign Teague for cheap if we can. He'll make an excellent versatile backup.

FA
Gandy
Preston
Villarial
Peters
Teague
Geisinger
Lawrence

Sure... I know we won't have the shut down 'D' we had last year... But it will be servicable and equally effective against the run and pass.

With these moves on the 'O'... we should experience some solid and balanced growth here.

Of course... throw it all out the window if we have a shot at Reggie Bush. <!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_1380306-->



This team goes 1-15. Just so you know!

[ryven]

The only way I would agree to a WR in round 1 is if we lose moulds and dont pick some one up FA the we will need help because parrish is to small and reed is not the answer and Aiken is not consistent enough.

But

In all we we should go for a DT 1st round and OL 2nd and the first of our 3rd picks.

[ryven]

Trade down and pick up an extra day 1 pick,giving us a total of 5. 6-7 OT's are projected for Round 1, so the quality is there.

Stick to OL and DL, for the most part.


I like the thought here chances are we are going to have a high pick and if we cant get a guy like haloti Ngata (DT) by the time we pick we could trade down and have that extra pick.

[dannyek71]

Personally, I wouldnt mind doing something in reverse like we did with Dallas. Trade our 1st this year, for a 1st next year and a 2nd this year. (Obviously it looks like we will have a very low pick, so I'd also want further compensation.)

This team has so many holes and needs, we need as many high picks as we can get our hands on. If not today, then get them tommorow once JP is developed.

[HHURRICANE]

This team goes 1-15. Just so you know!

Pat you and I finally agree on something. Merry Christmas Cratchet!!!

[Patrick76777]

Pat you and I finally agree on something. Merry Christmas Cratchet!!!


Bannan
Anderson
Rookie
Sape

As our DT's,

McGee and King as our corners.

Kill me now!

[Earthquake Enyart]

Bannan
Anderson
Rookie
Sape

As our DT's,

McGee and King as our corners.

Kill me now!
And they pick up Watson as a FA. :puke:

[justasportsfan]

why even bother drafting? We have a GM who hires coordinators who couldn't put things together even if we had the AFC's best players on our team.

BTW, Josh Reed is as good as gone as MOulds.

[Yasgur's Farm]

I seem to be taking a lot of criticism here for this detailed plan. Yet I see very few willing to address all the positions that will be vacated by the departures or declining play of Moulds, Clements, Milloy, Vincent and Adams.

It's easy to say bad idea... Let's see somebody back it up with an entire plan of their own.

I'll wait.

[HHURRICANE]

I seem to be taking a lot of criticism here for this detailed plan. Yet I see very few willing to address all the positions that will be vacated by the departures or declining play of Moulds, Clements, Milloy, Vincent and Adams.

It's easy to say bad idea... Let's see somebody back it up with an entire plan of their own.

I'll wait.

1) FA we will need a reciever to replace Moulds.

2) Josh Reed needs to be cut or restructered ie 5th receiver.

3) We won't cut both Milloy and Vincent. I would rather keep Vincent because Milloy has looked so bad this year. Vincent seems to still have his speed.

4) The first 3 picks should be dedicated the DL. The 4th and 5th picks should be OL. After that should be the best player available.

5) Cut Tim Anderson, Haggan, Posey, Wire, Teague, Gandy, Moulds and Adams.

6) Franchise Clements - he's better than he's looked and we can get something for him.

FA is needed to address our o-line. I would also think about cutting Villareal. The line sucks period. Peters is the only keeper. This kid will be in the Pro Bowl next year. Obviously we can't cut the whole line so we need to pick our spots. But the more upgrades the better. No more Gandy for Jennings moves!!!!

[Patrick76777]

1)

5) Cut Tim Anderson, Haggan, Posey, Wire, Teague, Gandy, Moulds and Adams.

6) Franchise Clements - he's better than he's looked and we can get something for him.



6. Thank god! I agree 1000%

5. I wouldn't cut Moulds or Adams! They're both under contract, Adams for a reasonable amount and if you put a beast next to him, nobody will run on us. IMO.

5b. Haggen is my boy. he needs to stay. He's jumped in our seats 2 of the last 3 home games before kickoffs. This week we're making a sign and my buddy is getting a jersey. We need Haggen!

[HHURRICANE]

6. Thank god! I agree 1000%

5. I wouldn't cut Moulds or Adams! They're both under contract, Adams for a reasonable amount and if you put a beast next to him, nobody will run on us. IMO.

5b. Haggen is my boy. he needs to stay. He's jumped in our seats 2 of the last 3 home games before kickoffs. This week we're making a sign and my buddy is getting a jersey. We need Haggen!

I am on the fence about Adams. At times he's looked great. So I'll give you that one. There is no reason to keep Moulds. He counts for 5 Million if we keep him and I think we can actuially upgrade for alot less. I'll jump in the seats for you if Haggan gets cut.

[Tatonka]

Picking a OT or a DT in the 1st Round and giving him a huge signing bonus doesn't have to be a problem if that player is eventually a Probowler. A WR taking in the 1st Round could just as easily be a bust as a OL like Mike Williams.
:goodpost:

[ryjam282]

How you can say a big receiver and put Randle El in that statement is beyond me. I would love to see Wayne here next year if we lose EmO. Him and Evans would be nice and Parrish will grow in the slot. But, it will take a lot to get him. Other teams will be throwing serious cash at him.

[Yasgur's Farm]

How you can say a big receiver and put Randle El in that statement is beyond me. I would love to see Wayne here next year if we lose EmO. Him and Evans would be nice and Parrish will grow in the slot. But, it will take a lot to get him. Other teams will be throwing serious cash at him.Look closer at what I wrote... I said draft a big receiver and possibly pickup Antwaan Randle El or Reggie Wayne as a FA.

[Tatonka]

reggie wayne will get more money than peerless did.. which was more than moulds..

i would love to have him here.. but i cant see it happening.

[Yasgur's Farm]

Maybe not... But the $5M or so we reportedly save on Moulds can go a long way.

[Throne Logic]

There is something to be said about the initial premise.
Unless the lineman is an Orlando Pace sure thing, you are foolish to use a high 1st rounder on a OL. Look at all the money we have tied up in Big Fat Mike. Think Minnesota is happy paying McKinney big bucks? Who was that guy that Tampa drafted the year before that everyone thought we should have? With the cap, it's just too much money to tie up in the line. If you are drafting in the top 10, you almost have to use it on skill positions.

I agree. Although I'd take it a step further to suggest that you'd be better off trading that top 10 pick for more picks, a solid veteran, or some combination of both. The CAP hit is huge for an unknown commodity. I don't care what number you're picked at, every player has the potential to become a Ryan Leaf. I'd rather get that Veteran or look for talent a bit later in Day 1 or early Day 2.