McGahee and Clements, pivotal moves for our future

[X-Era]

Seriously, I sometimes scratch grooves in my head by some of the thoughts here.

Did everyone forget why we are in this mess right now at least in part?

Pat Williams- a young player that was at worst a solid DT, was let go because we wouldnt pay for him. He was replaced with???? Still waiting.

Jonas Jennings- a young player that was at worst a solid LT, let go because we didnt want to pay him. He was replaced with Mike Gandy who has been a pleasant suprise, however our RT spot was in flux this year until Peters stepped up and is now playing well but very green.

Now, I dont need to tell anyone what keeping Pat would have meant. But keeping Jonas would have at least allowed us to put Mike Gandy at RT when Big Mike failed and then we could have replaced him with Peters anyways. We would have been UP one more OT at the most critical o-line position LT, and with a proven, home grown guy who may just have stepped even farther up with a big contract.

So, here we are again. We have 1 young guy who is a very very good player at the very worst, and another that may hold out.

AND MANY WANT TO LET THEM GO??????

Have you lost your minds?

The concept is easy. If you let Nate go, who do you replace him with??? Waiting...waiting. We wont, and when we dont, we head even FARTHER the wrong way.

We didnt learn from Pat or Jonas? Nate isnt a sure fire top 5 CB, but maybe a top 10. What he IS is one of the best young CB in the NFL. Dont you remember the years of guys like Ken Irvin? Chris Watson? It literally was almost a decade that our CB's was a weakness. We finally have a strong young pair of CB's and you want to let them go? when our D is already stinking?

I cant get around saying this, every single person who argues to let Nate go and NOT replace him is part of the PROBLEM not the solution. It is that EXACT mentality that has built this team into a mess.

Now, McGahee is the other guy. So we finally have a young, big, budding star RB and many of you dont want to pay him? WHAT???? You must be kidding me.

He is the fastest Bill to reach 2000 yards behind the same o-line that all of us are saying is horrible. He can be a key component to the Bills trifecta and you dont want to pay him? Who exactly would replace Willis if he held out or left somehow? Waiting....waiting, yet another move that would head us in the wrong direction yet again.

Please, please, if you wont be part of the solution, just get the hell out of the way.

A team THIS bad, needing up and coming stars THIS bad, should mortgage the whole damn city to keep McGahee and Clements in BIlls uni's Not really, but you get the point.

EVERY single time we let a player go and do not replace him with equal or better players we get WORSE. THAT, my friends, is exactly why we are where we are right now.

And dont try to shake a vet who could be servicable for a few years at me either, how well has that worked out with a guy like Vincent?

You mean overpay for a guy who is on thw rong side of 30, is getting worse every day, and will start running there mouths because they think they can? For marginal on the field play? What a great idea.

For the love of all that is good, you keep these 2 pivotal young players, at 2 very very key positions, and pay them what they are worth.

Ahh yes, what are they worth. Thats the next DUMB Bills GM concept. To TD, they are only worth what HE will pay. WRONG!!!! Its called market data folks. They are worth the average of what everyone else will pay!! Thats the facts. TD can stroke himself looking at how black his salary spreadsheet is on his own time. We want a winner! We want the playoffs!

If teams are willing to pay Clements as a top 5 CB, WE SHOULD TO. Its just that simple.

Overpay for a young up and comer? HELL YA, Ill take that any day of the week over overpaying for a vet on the decline or simply signing bargain basement backups!

And by the way, neither Clements nor McGahee are Holeceks Sam Rogers or other, they both have more talent in their little fingers than either of those clowns, so dont go pulling the Butler crap either.

Theres no way around it, we simply cant get by with trying to feel good because we got some great deal on a player or didnt overpay on another young player. That "feelin good" has very little value and you only need to look at yourself in the mirror while pointing when you wonder why we stink the next year.

McGahee and Clements need to be here! Plain and simple, losing either is a HUGE mistake.

[Pride]

They can both leave after this season... both are over-rated!

[Mitchy moo]

clements is a boil on the secondary's a**, useless. 1 int all year, a shut down corner he is not. Chambers cost him ~$4,000,000.00 this past game, maybe more but that what friends are for.

Willis is a self-centered, ego-maniacal player. He talks about how well he is doing but no 100 yard games, 5 games in a row?

If Willis doesn't pull a holdout move & becomes reasonable at the table, you keep him and hope someone tells him to shut his mouth (& he listens).

[X-Era]

They can both leave after this season... both are over-rated!

Good move.

Im sure you clapped when TD announced that he didnt need Pat because, "he thought highly of Ron Edwards".

As I said, you can be part of the problem or the solution.

[X-Era]

clements is a boil on the secondary's a**, useless. 1 int all year, a shut down corner he is not. Chambers cost him ~$4,000,000.00 this past game, maybe more but that what friends are for.

Willis is a self-centered, ego-maniacal player. He talks about how well he is doing but no 100 yard games, 5 games in a row?

If Willis doesn't pull a holdout move & becomes reasonable at the table, you keep him and hope someone tells him to shut his mouth (& he listens).

Neither you or Pride answered the question posed then.

Who exactly replaces EITHER and is at least equal or and upgrade?

If you give me that with a guy on the right side of 30, I say fine.

[gr8slayer]

They can both leave after this season... both are over-rated!
I still think that McGahee is our best player on Offense. The guy just needs some help from the OL. I can honestly say that I have never, in my 12 years of playing football seen a worse OL.

[justasportsfan]

I'm all for keeping them. TD and MM is gonna run them out of town however.

They are underperforming because of the coaches IMO.

[X-Era]

I still think that McGahee is our best player on Offense. The guy just needs some help from the OL. I can honestly say that I have never, in my 12 years of playing football seen a worse OL.

No, you werent paying attention, they are overrated.

See Willis got to 2000 faster than anyone else and did it behind a o-line that DIDNT include

Hull, Ballard, and Wolford.

Its just brilliant, we have fans that cant even think straight.

[JefftheBillsfan]

you think nate is a top 10 CB, I agree. If you consistently pay top 10 talent top 3 money, you won't make it in this league. I have a hard time thinking Willis would be that stupid to hold out after this poor season, so thats not even really a concern at this point.

and you do realize that if we resigned jonas jennings (who got waaaay overpayed), that we would not have signed gandy. so there goes your gandy would have played RT idea.

another thing, im getting sick of everyone getting on each other's cases because they have a different opinion. because they dont think we should resign nate, they are part of the problem? come on.

[X-Era]

you think nate is a top 10 CB, I agree. If you consistently pay top 10 talent top 3 money, you won't make it in this league. I have a hard time thinking Willis would be that stupid to hold out after this poor season, so thats not even really a concern at this point.

and you do realize that if we resigned jonas jennings (who got waaaay overpayed), that we would not have signed gandy. so there goes your gandy would have played RT idea.

another thing, im getting sick of everyone getting on each other's cases because they have a different opinion. because they dont think we should resign nate, they are part of the problem? come on.

Number 1, Gandy could have been had if we didnt waste any money on Bennie the human penalty.

Number 2, I agree that the Willis issue is a non-issue, he aint holding out.

Number 3, I say that if you want Clements gone, fine, but fess up a equal or better version, if you dont, cant, ordont want to at all, you are saying we should make this team even worse. Im sick and tired of that mentality.

Thats why we are where we are. People can have different opinions, Im all for that.

[X-Era]

clements is a boil on the secondary's a**, useless. 1 int all year, a shut down corner he is not. Chambers cost him ~$4,000,000.00 this past game, maybe more but that what friends are for.

Willis is a self-centered, ego-maniacal player. He talks about how well he is doing but no 100 yard games, 5 games in a row?

If Willis doesn't pull a holdout move & becomes reasonable at the table, you keep him and hope someone tells him to shut his mouth (& he listens).

As far as someone telling Willis to shut his mouth:

1) The number one biggest move this team can make is to get or force an existing coach or player to be that guy...that shuts some of these players mouths.

2) Willis and many others will only listen from a few select people like Jimmy Johnson, Parcells, or some other coach like that. Or a player like Peyton, or Ray Lewis. which brings me to #3

3) If you wont bring in one of the guys or someone like what I mentioned in #2, force some of your guys to step up. JP? fine, I love it actually but no one will listen yet. Mularkey? fine, but again no one will listen.

[Mahdi]

I think we definitely keep Wills. I think this drought he's in taught him a lesson in humility, and he will come back better through the rest of this season and into next year behind a real O-line. As for Clements if he is asking top dollar let him go. I would rather have Charles Woodson. He wont command as much due to his injury history and his age. Plus when Charles is in the game you dont even hear his name. A true shut down corner.

[OpIv37]

It's not that anyone wants Clements gone- it's just that like JefftheBills fan said, his quality needs to be consistent with his play. He's been horrible the last few games and he's inconsistent. We have a 53 man roster and a ~86 million salary cap. If we pay Nate what he wants, what do we do about OL, DL, safety, LB, and maybe WR? There won't be any cap room left.

And as far as Willis, if he doesn't hold out, no problem. If his scumbag agent makes him hold out, **** him. There's a million RB's that can put up the numbers he has this year. Hell, Ricky Williams could do that and he'd be a hell of a lot cheaper.

[Kerr]

It's not that anyone wants Clements gone- it's just that like JefftheBills fan said, his quality needs to be consistent with his play. He's been horrible the last few games and he's inconsistent. We have a 53 man roster and a ~86 million salary cap. If we pay Nate what he wants, what do we do about OL, DL, safety, LB, and maybe WR? There won't be any cap room left.

And as far as Willis, if he doesn't hold out, no problem. If his scumbag agent makes him hold out, **** him. There's a million RB's that can put up the numbers he has this year. Hell, Ricky Williams could do that and he'd be a hell of a lot cheaper.


Ricky Williams will be looking for a new zip code next season as a starter. As of now, I would take him over Willis. He's done well as a backup for the dolphins. And it seems he's over all that drama that surrounded him in the offseason before he impressed his teammates with a new version of himself.

[Nublar7]

Ricky Williams will be looking for a new zip code next season as a starter. As of now, I would take him over Willis. He's done well as a backup for the dolphins. And it seems he's over all that drama that surrounded him in the offseason before he impressed his teammates with a new version of himself.Ricky isn't going anywhere. He is going to be a Fin in 2006. Period.

[FinNasty23]

yo JP-era...

There is a difference between holding on to young up and coming talent... and badly overpaying for marginal players. Jennings was average and definatly not worth as much as he got. Be glad you didnt tie up your cap with a guy like that...

[X-Era]

yo JP-era...

There is a difference between holding on to young up and coming talent... and badly overpaying for marginal players. Jennings was average and definatly not worth as much as he got. Be glad you didnt tie up your cap with a guy like that...

Hey, the concept was easy.

If your going to let young guys go (not all were up and comers but many are just solid), thats fine but you need to replace them with equal or better talent or your team gets WORSE.

This entire point revolves around letting Pat Williams go and not replacing him.

If anyone thinks we can let either McGahee or Clements go and NOT replace them and then be just as good they are sadly mistaken.

[Kerr]

Ricky isn't going anywhere. He is going to be a Fin in 2006. Period.

Is this according to him or you?

[Michael82]

:bigwave: Nate "Burnt Toast" Clements

[Mahdi]

Hey, the concept was easy.

If your going to let young guys go (not all were up and comers but many are just solid), thats fine but you need to replace them with equal or better talent or your team gets WORSE.

This entire point revolves around letting Pat Williams go and not replacing him.

If anyone thinks we can let either McGahee or Clements go and NOT replace them and then be just as good they are sadly mistaken.
I dont think we have a choice. If we sign Nate then we are going to have to live with terrible line play for yet another year. I would rather upgrade the O-line and D-line. Keep the offense on the field longer and the defense less. And when the D does get on the field getting pressure on a QB can make an average corner into a great corner. However even a great corner such as Clements when he decides to play, can be made to look silly when he has to cover a receiever for more than 4 secs.

[finsrclowns]

I stopped reading after you called Pat Williams a young player.

[Michael82]

I stopped reading after you called Pat Williams a young player.
:lmao:

[bills_7]

if clements has to do with our future we could be in trouble lol

[Spiderweb]

I stopped reading after you called Pat Williams a young player.

1.) Pat Williams is 33 years old. Young in life, maybe, but not in this game.

2.) Jonas Jennings squeezed 36 Mil (approx) with a 8 figure signing bonus from the
49'ers for an oft injured LT, talented but seemingly a bit brittle. For the record, he
played three games this year before his season ended.

I'd have liked to have kept Phat Pat, and the $$$ the Bills offered was close to the Vikings offer, but I feel TD miscalculated that he would get it close and win on the "home team discount" that Pat talked about during last season. TD lost. What is an assuming note is that we once paid similar money to what Pat got for guys like Riemersma. Yet when you went and called him "young".

The rest of your post , I couldn't read it either after your beginning.

[frank74]

willis is done in buffalo because he doesn't believe in this organization anymore. until there's an o-line and some coaching, mcgahee will do nothing. right now he's reminiscent of antowain smith. as far as who can replace willis? at this point, anyone. how about shaud williams? he's actually faster than mcgahee and i'm sure many will disagree. willis is a ***** with an agent who pumps his ego making him think he's better than he really is. nate "playmaker" clements. he is definitely not worth the money especially after this year. so, replace him with king or greer. does it really matter? we need to address the real issues of this team. it would be in our better interest to sign some stud linemen with the money we'd save from not paying top dollar for a decent cornerback. anyway...go sabres!

[dolphinssuck]

Yeah TD and MM are the ones whos killing WMs careerin Buffalo with no line its rare to get the most out of even the best back!

[THATHURMANATOR]

Pat Williams- a young player that was at worst a solid DT, was let go because we wouldnt pay for him. He was replaced with???? Still waiting.

Jonas Jennings- a young player that was at worst a solid LT, let go because we didnt want to pay him. He was replaced with Mike Gandy who has been a pleasant suprise, however our RT spot was in flux this year until Peters stepped up and is now playing well but very green.



Pat williams was not a young player he is at least 33.

Jonas was decent but was the top Free agent tackle on the market and very injury prone.

Yes at some point we do need to start keeping guys. I say we start with Clements and Willis!

[ddaryl]

McGahee could be a great playyer, but IMO he needs ot shut his pie hole. I DO NOT AND WILL NOT RESPECT ANY SUCH PLAYER. He blows his own horn too much.

If he learns to shut up and let his play speak for him then I'll gain some respect for him. As of now he's just a punk, and not much of a leader.

But I agree if we lose him, we will be struggling to find a replacement, unless some proven FA RB falls in our lap this offseason.

Clements can be kept based upon the fact he doesn't deserve a huge pay day that we feared he would command. He cost himself some $$$, but who knows a teammight still be interested in signing him for top 5 cash.

[dolphinssuck]

I agree with you 100% if he would stop bragging and just keep all that cockiness and swagger on the field he would not only be better but would be a much more respected back in the league and among the Bills family! FIRE TD and MM PLEEEEEEASE!