Holcomb is clearly better than JP...

[MikeInRoch]

Or maybe not. We sure can't tell at this point.

[Turf]

Sure here's Kelly's trademark play. 3rd and 15 throw, for 2 yards, regardless of how much time is left in the game.

[ArcticWildMan]

Nice deep throw by Holcomb right into the hands of the defender. :rolleyes:

[SeatownBillsFan21]

they both suck we need matt

[ScottLawrence]

Its obvious the team plays better with Kelly in there.


People dont' care though, its all about JP.


Say one good thing about Holcomb, and you get bashed.

[L.A. Playa]

Holcomb sucks

[TacklingDummy]

JP sucks.

[ArcticWildMan]

ASk Roscoe who he likes better. Holcomb hung him out to dry on that one play.

[TacklingDummy]

Ho-Ho-Ho Bring TO to Buffalo.

Anyone see that sign?

Plus I got to see that douche bag Elvis fan again.

[bills_7]

y do these threads get started Holcomb is AVG at best.. and has nothin to do with our future,, JP is the guy..

[im4bflo]

My biggest problem with Holcomb, is his passes on 3rd down, he doesn't even give us much of a chance to get a first, unless the receiver pulls off an unbelieable play, which hasn't been done yet!
And who's sending Roscoe over the middle? Is that another trick play? :coocoo:
JP is suffering from bad o-line play and bad play calling.
Under the same gameplan, tonight, JP would have done better, IMHO.
JPD

[DaBills]

Clearly, he ain't. KH may be playing better than JP right now, but that's relative. They both suck more ass than an airline toilet right now. For a sec, I actually thought I saw RJ out there throwing some nice early x-mas INTs to the Broncos.

JP can't layoff the long ball, and KH dinks and dunks with about as much touch as Bledsoe. We're screwed at QB.

Dump all of them and get Mat Leinart. Not to mention this is also JP's second injury in two years. How long do we wait before we realize 6 years have gone by and he's out injured yet again, but hey, he's the future, right?

[weettt]

My biggest problem with Holcomb, is his passes on 3rd down, he doesn't even give us much of a chance to get a first, unless the receiver pulls off an unbelieable play, which hasn't been done yet!
And who's sending Roscoe over the middle? Is that another trick play? :coocoo:
JP is suffering from bad o-line play and bad play calling.
Under the same gameplan, tonight, JP would have done better, IMHO.
JPD

I agree with you 110%!! You obviously have a brain.

[im4bflo]

I agree with you 110%!! You obviously have a brain.
Thanks, I think we're not alone about what I've said, it's pretty obvious.

[Bmax]

Read between the lines .. jp could have played tonight .. I feel mularkey thought he could pull a upset with holcomb and some how save his skin. !!!! NOT !!!!

iT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THE AXKE FALLS ON BOTH MULARKEY AND DONAHOE.....Ho-HO-Ho FIRE DONAHOE... Hmm who would i rather have a not very mobile journeyman who doesn't have the arm strength to throw deep or a mobile strong armed rook who needs some seasoning...and a offensive line.

Bmax

[realdealryan]

I thought we had pretty good pass protection tonight. The argument could be made that if none of his receivers were open, a starting Losman would have added the dimension of scrambling. Are we really going to start a thread about a night when the protection was great, yet KH still hit linebacker #56 in the hands at least twice?

[Turf]

Pretty good pass protection?? The only time that happened they were rushing 2 guys. TWO GUYS. Let's get this right again. They rushed TWO GUYS. And Holcomb STILL got flushed out of the pocket and couldn't sit back and take time to go downfield.

[Philagape]

Holcomb is better right now, but so what? What's the relevance of that? What is there to play for this year?

There is only one objective at QB, and that's to give JP experience so he'll get better. And anyone who says he won't get better is just being a biased idiot.

[Michael82]

My biggest problem with Holcomb, is his passes on 3rd down, he doesn't even give us much of a chance to get a first, unless the receiver pulls off an unbelieable play, which hasn't been done yet!
And who's sending Roscoe over the middle? Is that another trick play? :coocoo:
JP is suffering from bad o-line play and bad play calling.
Under the same gameplan, tonight, JP would have done better, IMHO.
JPD
Excellent Post! :bf1:

[dannyek71]

next season at this time, JP will be better

[Dozerdog]

Wow. Arguing over which dog turd smells better.

Good luck with that, guys!

[ScottLawrence]

My biggest problem with Holcomb, is his passes on 3rd down, he doesn't even give us much of a chance to get a first, unless the receiver pulls off an unbelieable play, which hasn't been done yet!
And who's sending Roscoe over the middle? Is that another trick play? :coocoo:
JP is suffering from bad o-line play and bad play calling.
Under the same gameplan, tonight, JP would have done better, IMHO.
JPD


He gives his recievers a chance to make a play, which isn't impossible to pull off.


What makes you think Losman would have done better with the same gameplan.

When have we ever seen Losman have a game like Holcomb did last night?

[Mr. Cynical]

:yawn:

[ScottLawrence]

:yawn:


I guess you can just ignore the facts.

[Mr. Cynical]

I guess you can just ignore the facts.

:yawn:

I'm sorry, did you say something?

[BillsFever21]

He gives his recievers a chance to make a play, which isn't impossible to pull off.


What makes you think Losman would have done better with the same gameplan.

When have we ever seen Losman have a game like Holcomb did last night?

You're calling that a good game by Holcomb? It must not take very much to please you.

Did you watch the game after the first drive? We only had a TD the rest of the game until mop up time came in and we got a TD.

JP had 3 TD's vs. Miami, 2 against the Chiefs but you said he sucked. Holcomb didn't get a TD until mop up time and yet another loss but he was great? Pass the pipe over here.

[Michael82]

He gives his recievers a chance to make a play, which isn't impossible to pull off.


What makes you think Losman would have done better with the same gameplan.

When have we ever seen Losman have a game like Holcomb did last night?
Holcomb: 22/35 for 202 yards, 1 TD, 88% QB Rating..... :boring:


I'd take Losman's game against the Dolphins or the one against the Chiefs over Holcomb's game last night. :::

Losman vs Chiefs: 9/16 for 137 yards, 2 TD, 124.2% QB Rating

Losman vs Dolphins: 13/26 for 224 yards, 3 TD, 1 INT, 102.1% QB Rating

[im4bflo]

He gives his recievers a chance to make a play, which isn't impossible to pull off.


What makes you think Losman would have done better with the same gameplan.

When have we ever seen Losman have a game like Holcomb did last night?
I'm only going with what happened that game Kelly started, got knocked out, and JP came in and shined with Holcombs gameplan. and he obviously can run faster and better, Holcomb gets caught easily, and add a long ball, to actually GET first downs, instead of MAYBE a reciever can make a play, maybe not impossible, but has it been done yet? JP has had better games and worse than Kelly last night, and vise-versa, but Kellys a veteran, and JP's pretty much still a rookie IMO, with all the times he's been pulled, I'll take the upcoming rookie, than the not much better veteran. He hooks up with Eric very well, but after that...:idunno:

[HHURRICANE]

Read between the lines .. jp could have played tonight .. I feel mularkey thought he could pull a upset with holcomb and some how save his skin. !!!! NOT !!!!

iT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THE AXKE FALLS ON BOTH MULARKEY AND DONAHOE.....Ho-HO-Ho FIRE DONAHOE... Hmm who would i rather have a not very mobile journeyman who doesn't have the arm strength to throw deep or a mobile strong armed rook who needs some seasoning...and a offensive line.

Bmax

God I hope your wrong about JP being able to play!! If MM is that desperate he really is an idiot. Furtheromore, This was the first game in 3 years that I didn't watch just because I had no interest in watching Ho-hum Holcomb. Sure enough we lost and I saved my evening!! Thank goodness.

[Tasker]

And anyone who says he won't get better is just being a biased idiot.

Hard to argue when you cant possible get any worse, unless there is a spot below worst in the NFL?

[HHURRICANE]

By the way, this Thread is F..NG stupid. Holcomb is a good backup. PERIOD. There is no QB controversy because if JP can't get the job done than we need to draft someone else. Holcomb is not and will never be the future of this team so let's kill this stupid argument once and for all. It's like saying Jeff Garcia is the future of the Lions.

I am sick of the comparison. How many games has Losman played?! 8??!! Eight games in his total career. How many games has Holcomb played in?Guaranteed if JP gets as many under his belt there will not even be a comparison. Everybody forgets that Jim Kelly had 2 years in TX before he showed up here. Watch some of the old Gamblers games and tell me what you think?! He had good games and bad games!!!

[bledslow]

poor holcomb was the VICTIM of some bad drops last night.he had about 3 passes that were dropped that all went over 20 yards in the air that would have went for first downs and drives would have keep alive. his numbers should have much better. lee evans getting alligator arms on a 20+ yard pass when a defender was 8 yards away from him. what a bust(and puzzy) evans turned out to be. mould also dropped one of the passes that should have gone over 20 yards also. he still had a good game though. --moulds mind is elsewhere. i think he is thinking about next year when he becomes a patriot running routes with branch and givens in foxboro and SHREDDING teams apart.

[Tasker]

Holcomb: 22/35 for 202 yards, 1 TD, 88% QB Rating..... :boring:


I'd take Losman's game against the Dolphins or the one against the Chiefs over Holcomb's game last night. :::

Losman vs Chiefs: 9/16 for 137 yards, 2 TD, 124.2% QB Rating

Losman vs Dolphins: 13/26 for 224 yards, 3 TD, 1 INT, 102.1% QB Rating

OK OK
while holcomb is no JESUS in cleats, Remember he is the backup, and so he is doing his job, that of a backup very well.

Losman is the HIGHER paid starter.

And the games you pointed out? look good the way you put it. BUT

VS Chiefs, still only 14 point total in a home game, hardly a good outing.
VS Dolphins 180 yads in the first quarter I believe and 44 yds in the next 3 quarters combined, and you forgot his fumble.
Again hardly a NFL starter..

AND you left out 3 games below a 35 rating....35! or less 3 times this year.

VS ATL 33.1 rating
VS NE 33.6
VS NO 34.0 rating

and a season 49% completeion rate? and
6 passing 1st downs per game average?

43.9 QB RATING WHen trailing by 1 to 8 points...
gets worse when we need him most.



http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493000/splits/2005

While he is young, even an improvement next year would be sub-playoff quality play.

Holcomb is not the answer, but he is doing HIS job as backup very well.
Hes not the starter.

Losman didnt do even an average job of starter, which is why he is paid, he should carry Mularkey's bags on the way out the door.

[ScottLawrence]

OK OK
while holcomb is no JESUS in cleats, Remember he is the backup, and so he is doing his job, that of a backup very well.

Losman is the HIGHER paid starter.

And the games you pointed out? look good the way you put it. BUT

VS Chiefs, still only 14 point total in a home game, hardly a good outing.
VS Dolphins 180 yads in the first quarter I believe and 44 yds in the next 3 quarters combined, and you forgot his fumble.
Again hardly a NFL starter..

AND you left out 3 games below a 35 rating....35! or less 3 times this year.

VS ATL 33.1 rating
VS NE 33.6
VS NO 34.0 rating

and a season 49% completeion rate? and
6 passing 1st downs per game average?

43.9 QB RATING WHen trailing by 1 to 8 points...
gets worse when we need him most.



http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493000/splits/2005

While he is young, even an improvement next year would be sub-playoff quality play.

Holcomb is not the answer, but he is doing HIS job as backup very well.
Hes not the starter.

Losman didnt do even an average job of starter, which is why he is paid, he should carry Mularkey's bags on the way out the door.


While I don't believe Losman should be out the door yet, its still way to early, and hes at least shown glimpses.

You make the point I've been trying to make, thank you.

[Michael82]

OK OK
while holcomb is no JESUS in cleats, Remember he is the backup, and so he is doing his job, that of a backup very well.

Losman is the HIGHER paid starter.

And the games you pointed out? look good the way you put it. BUT

VS Chiefs, still only 14 point total in a home game, hardly a good outing.
VS Dolphins 180 yads in the first quarter I believe and 44 yds in the next 3 quarters combined, and you forgot his fumble.
Again hardly a NFL starter..

AND you left out 3 games below a 35 rating....35! or less 3 times this year.

VS ATL 33.1 rating
VS NE 33.6
VS NO 34.0 rating

and a season 49% completeion rate? and
6 passing 1st downs per game average?

43.9 QB RATING WHen trailing by 1 to 8 points...
gets worse when we need him most.



http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493000/splits/2005

While he is young, even an improvement next year would be sub-playoff quality play.

Holcomb is not the answer, but he is doing HIS job as backup very well.
Hes not the starter.

Losman didnt do even an average job of starter, which is why he is paid, he should carry Mularkey's bags on the way out the door.
He asked me this question....


When have we ever seen Losman have a game like Holcomb did last night?

So, I answered it. :up:

[Philagape]

Hard to argue when you cant possible get any worse, unless there is a spot below worst in the NFL?

Oh, some have tried.

On a general note, when will some people start to understand that several good QBs started out just as bad? That it often takes at least a year of experience to become a good QB? Why do people keep judging him as if he were a veteran? How hard is this to understand? Are some people so simple-minded?

[cloudycloud]

poor holcomb was the VICTIM of some bad drops last night.

If you want to talk about drops, you can't forget to mention the sure three or four interceptions he had dropped by Denver defenders.

[Michael82]

If you want to talk about drops, you can't forget to mention the sure three or four interceptions he had dropped by Denver defenders.
exactly!

[TacklingDummy]

If you want to talk about drops, you can't forget to mention the sure three or four interceptions he had dropped by Denver defenders.

The same could be said for Losman. Many a INT has been dropped.

[Night Train]

Sure here's Kelly's trademark play. 3rd and 15 throw, for 2 yards, regardless of how much time is left in the game.

Dead on.

There is a reason he's 33 and started roughly 15 total games in the NFL.:drool2:

[TacklingDummy]

There is a reason he's 33 and started roughly 15 total games in the NFL.:drool2:

Would that reason be that he had 3 first round draft picks ahead of him?

[Devin]

Would that reason be that he had 3 first round draft picks ahead of him?

Holcomb is a good backup to Losman.

[Night Train]

Would that reason be that he had 3 first round draft picks ahead of him?

In other words, Steve DeBerg lite ? :coocoo:

[ddaryl]

Would that reason be that he had 3 first round draft picks ahead of him?

Regardless of what else Holcomb has done for the Bills this season, he has shown one thing that cannot be denied, he doesn't deserve to be a starter in this league at his age. Which means he does nothing to make it worth keeping JP on the bench.

[TedMock]

The only time this season that Losman had the same gameplan as Holcomb was in the KC game. There is something fundamentally flawed with our inconsistant gameplanning on offense. I'm all for moving things to fit a player's strength, but the plays are TOTALLY different with JP and Holcomb. The coaches don't put these two in 'like' situations. Either way, the o-line sucks, and both QB's are victims of that. Part of the problem is coaching. If the players can't get into a rhythm because they have to change their approach all the time, they can't ever perform at 100%. The biggest problem is still the GM's negligence with the o-line. I say you just keep JP in there and let him take his lumps. Many a QB had horrible ratings in year one, and went on to be successful.

[jamze132]

His stats may look better, but what good does it do when it's 3rd and 20 and he checks down for a 10 yard gain? Yeah it looks good on paper but WTF?

[RedEyE]

This is the most ****ing ******ed QB controversy thread yet. Leave it alone!!!!!!!

[Mr. Cynical]

Would that reason be that he had 3 first round draft picks ahead of him?

:shakeno:

Please...

KH played his first two years behind Jim Harbaugh at Indy ('96 and '97). Yes, Jim was a #1 pick in 1987, but so what. He was out of Indy at the end of '97 and then they drafted Manning for the '98 season. Seems to me if KH was good enough to start, they wouldn't have drafted another QB.

Then he played behind yes, another stellar #1 pick at Cleveland, Tim Couch, a guy who is no longer in football. He split games with Couch in '03 (Couch's last year in the NFL), and did so well that they decided to pick up and start Jeff Garcia in '04, as well as draft Luke McCown in the 4th round.

As a backup he is very capable and I'm glad we picked him up for that purpose. But he is simply not starter material in this league. End of story.

[chubluv]

Its apples to oranges with the comparison of the 2 QB's. Defences play each QB different wich allows us to play different ofeence schemes against them.
For instanse when JP is in there its like watching Bledsoe & RJ in there all over again because defences are teeing off on him and sending an all out blitz just about every time. With Holcomb in there defenses are playing more conservative which is why JP throws the deep ball more often and has to roll out so much & why Holcomb stays in the pocket and dinks and dunks underneath the coverage.
The real problem here is the O-Line & the play calling by MM. If 73000 people can see the way defenses are lining up against each QB differently why cant the coaches and make the necessary adjustments. It seems like they try to hard to run their scripted plays ( which usually work pretty well) & then lose their ability to call a game after that. We look like adjustments are never made at halftime or any other time during a game.