I just don’t think we’re really this bad!

[Patrick76777]

Are we playing bad? Yes, no doubt. But I attribute the last 7 weeks to the team basically giving up. Sure they say they’re playing hard but there will always be a difference between playing hard at 4-8 with nothing on the line, and playing hard at 8-4 and a playoff spot staring you in the face.

Don’t be fooled by looking at the win loss record.

I don’t know why they gave up. Maybe dislike of the coach, maybe they figured we were out of the playoffs anyway. Who knows?

It’s human nature to have a let down in this type of situation. I know I’ll get the responses, Well, if they give up, they should be cut. But that’s BS! It’s as natural as can be to let your guard down.

When you’re 3-11 you’re going to be a lot less likely to throw your body in front of Jerome Bettis with reckless abandon as you would if you were 11-3 and fighting for home field advantage.

And that goes for every aspect of the game. The energy level will be slightly different for the Bills and Bengals this week.

My contention all along was that this team does have talent (maybe not at QB). We just have not found the right guy to lead them into battle.

[OpIv37]

How can you know whether or not we have QB talent behind this O line? The O line clearly has a talent gap compared to opposing D's, and both Losman and Holcomb are constantly rushing passes and running for their lives (not to mention our receivers have not been playing up to their potential). How can you judge a QB when he has no O line, no running game to take pressure off and underachieving wide receivers?

Our safeties are also old and slow- the safety blitzes never work, and they seem capable of getting there in time to put on a big hit but never in time to make a play on the ball.

The D line is by far the worst in the league. Again, the safeties may not look so bad if there was some pressure on the QB.

Talent-wise, this team needs a lot of help.

[Patrick76777]

How can you know whether or not we have QB talent behind this O line? The O line clearly has a talent gap compared to opposing D's, and both Losman and Holcomb are constantly rushing passes and running for their lives (not to mention our receivers have not been playing up to their potential). How can you judge a QB when he has no O line, no running game to take pressure off and underachieving wide receivers?

Our safeties are also old and slow- the safety blitzes never work, and they seem capable of getting there in time to put on a big hit but never in time to make a play on the ball.

The D line is by far the worst in the league. Again, the safeties may not look so bad if there was some pressure on the QB.

Talent-wise, this team needs a lot of help.


I know Op. I know how you feel. I know your thoughts! I know! We disagree. I'm just trying to help save you some time. You've posted this same thing non-stop for 5 weeks straight. You've got to be sick of writing it by know!!!!!

Who are you trying to convince and why is it so important to you?

[Novacane]

we are what we are. Records don't lie

[OpIv37]

I know Op. I know how you feel. I know your thoughts! I know! We disagree. I'm just trying to help save you some time. You've posted this same thing non-stop for 5 weeks straight. You've got to be sick of writing it by know!!!!!
Who are you trying to convince and why is it so important to you?

people like you who are in denial. Donahoe and company have been feeding us this "there's just a few missing pieces" garbage for 4 years now and it's not true- all it does is set us up for disappointment. We as fans buy into it and expect good seasons:

-Well we added defensive FA's now we'll be contenders
-Well we're going to switch to a run-oriented offense then will be contenders (KG and GW's last season- never happened)
-Well we're going to change the HC and be more run-oriented then we'll be contenders- never happend
-Well ditching Bledsoe is addition by subtraction and now we'll be contenders (we're 4-10).

For the last 4 years, the Bills FO have been putting band-aids on cancer. Trust me- I'm in no hurry to enter a rebuilding phase and deal with the losses that come with it. But the truth is that relying on current talent is just delaying the inevitable rebuilding and creating more frustration and disappointment in the meantime.

The more people that realize TD has taken this team down the complete wrong path, the better off we'll be. This team isn't even close to competitive and it's about time for the fans and the FO to wake the **** up.

[Iehoshua]

It ain't a river in Egypt...

[Patrick76777]

people like you who are in denial. Donahoe and company have been feeding us this "there's just a few missing pieces" garbage for 4 years now and it's not true- all it does is set us up for disappointment. We as fans buy into it and expect good seasons:

-Well we added defensive FA's now we'll be contenders
-Well we're going to switch to a run-oriented offense then will be contenders (KG and GW's last season- never happened)
-Well we're going to change the HC and be more run-oriented then we'll be contenders- never happend
-Well ditching Bledsoe is addition by subtraction and now we'll be contenders (we're 4-10).

For the last 4 years, the Bills FO have been putting band-aids on cancer. Trust me- I'm in no hurry to enter a rebuilding phase and deal with the losses that come with it. But the truth is that relying on current talent is just delaying the inevitable rebuilding and creating more frustration and disappointment in the meantime.

The more people that realize TD has taken this team down the complete wrong path, the better off we'll be. This team isn't even close to competitive and it's about time for the fans and the FO to wake the **** up.


If you don't care if you waste your time. Then I don't care!

[Iehoshua]

It’s human nature to have a let down in this type of situation. I know I’ll get the responses, Well, if they give up, they should be cut. But that’s BS! It’s as natural as can be to let your guard down.

When you’re 3-11 you’re going to be a lot less likely to throw your body in front of Jerome Bettis with reckless abandon as you would if you were 11-3 and fighting for home field advantage.

I agree with this to a point.

However I don't believe we're much better than perhaps 1 or 2 wins... Maybe...

[OpIv37]

Don’t be fooled by looking at the win loss record.

It’s human nature to have a let down in this type of situation. I know I’ll get the responses, Well, if they give up, they should be cut. But that’s BS! It’s as natural as can be to let your guard down.
When you’re 3-11 you’re going to be a lot less likely to throw your body in front of Jerome Bettis with reckless abandon as you would if you were 11-3 and fighting for home field advantage.


Two things:
1. How can you just dismiss the W/L record? That's pretty much the most important thing in pro sports (well other than money /soapbox). This is like reverse Wys-ism: "if you ignore the 10 losses, we're not that bad!"

2. I agree that players will not play as hard when they are out of the playoff hunt. But how does that explain the TB, Atlanta, NO, Oakland and SD games? We were still very much in the playoff hunt and the team totall gave up, and either got blown out or allowed the other team to control the ball for 8 minutes in the 4th quarter to eliminate any chance at a comeback.



Who are you trying to convince and why is it so important to you?

I think I finally figured out why it's so important to me- it's a desperate attempt to try to understand people like you. What I mean is that I just can't comprehend how you look at the overwhelming evidence that we suck and still say we're not that bad. By any measure, this team his horrible: statistics, W/L this year, W/L over the last 5 years, playoff appearances, league rankings, take your pick. No matter what standard you use, this team falls short.

Now, I could be wrong and I have been wrong about things I've said on this site, but at least I have a logical thought process as to how I arrived at my opinions. The logic can be flawed due to bad information or a bad process or completely unexpected results, but at least the logic is there. People like you come on here and make bold assertations with absolutely no thought process, logic, facts, information etc, behind what you say. And I just don't get it.

[eee1776]

Players give up when they know the GM and Head couch will not be around the coming year.

[dolphinssuck]

This team has ultimately underachieved this season no doubt about it.:rage:

[Patrick76777]

With Spikes and a good QB we're 9-5 right now.

[Ebenezer]

With Spikes and a good QB we're 9-5 right now.
hell...with Spikes and Bledsoe we would be 9-5 right now...

[Ebenezer]

2. I agree that players will not play as hard when they are out of the playoff hunt. But how does that explain the TB, Atlanta, NO, Oakland and SD games? We were still very much in the playoff hunt and the team totall gave up, and either got blown out or allowed the other team to control the ball for 8 minutes in the 4th quarter to eliminate any chance at a comeback.

Look at the list of players on this team. Bonafide vets from winning teams. This team quit someplace along the line. They have the talent to go at least 8-8...some tweaking and they are there.

[Buckets]

we are what we are. Records don't lie

And if the players have "give up" I don't want them around next year.

[Mr. Cynical]

Please get your head out of the sand. It is this perception that has fueled our mediocrity for years.

WE SUCK.

Accept it, then push and scream for a turnaround.

[ddaryl]

Are we playing bad? Yes, no doubt. But I attribute the last 7 weeks to the team basically giving up. Sure they say they’re playing hard but there will always be a difference between playing hard at 4-8 with nothing on the line, and playing hard at 8-4 and a playoff spot staring you in the face.

Don’t be fooled by looking at the win loss record.

I don’t know why they gave up. Maybe dislike of the coach, maybe they figured we were out of the playoffs anyway. Who knows?

It’s human nature to have a let down in this type of situation. I know I’ll get the responses, Well, if they give up, they should be cut. But that’s BS! It’s as natural as can be to let your guard down.

When you’re 3-11 you’re going to be a lot less likely to throw your body in front of Jerome Bettis with reckless abandon as you would if you were 11-3 and fighting for home field advantage.

And that goes for every aspect of the game. The energy level will be slightly different for the Bills and Bengals this week.

My contention all along was that this team does have talent (maybe not at QB). We just have not found the right guy to lead them into battle.


LMAO
We are that bad, we do not have enough talent, and most of the palyers on the team have absolutly NO HART AT ALL.

Wether they gave up or not, they looked like crap and I could care less if we gutted all 52 players and started from scratch, because I have as about much respect for the Bills, the players and the organization these days as I have for the conservative right, and thats down in the negative numbers dsome where. The Bills suck, and so do republicans.

[OpIv37]

With Spikes and a good QB we're 9-5 right now.

hell...with Spikes and Bledsoe we would be 9-5 right now...

Based on what? With Spikes the D wouldn't have given up and we may get 2-3 more wins tops.

No QB is going to look good behind this O- line. Bledsoe would be a sitting duck. Remember, every time you see JP run, chalk up a sack of Bledsoe. He got sacked 7 TIMES last week behind an o-line that's much better than ours. And don't forget there were like 5-6 drops on Saturday against Denver, none of which were the QB's fault. It's just not possible to judge a QB when there's no running game, no O-line and no help from the WR's.

[ublinkwescore]

I don't think we suck that much either - we've got talent to compete with the best teams in the league at skill positions, but unfortunately as we all very well know now - skill position players don't make a team great without help in front of them before each snap.

BTW - Clements can walk for all I care he's not worth a single cent as far as I'm concerned now (actually we'll franchise him and get some value for him).

[Mr. Cynical]

hell...with Spikes and Bledsoe we would be 9-5 right now...

[BillsRockSOMUCH]

Bledsoe never got it done in Buffalo...Why would he have been able to with an even more pathetic line?

[Iehoshua]

Bledsoe never got it done in Buffalo...Why would he have been able to with an even more pathetic line?
...because Bledsoe bought me a house and a brand new car and sends me $4000 a week of tax-free money.

(Can't think of any other reason why he'd warrant so much praise from some individuals...) :idunno:

[Ebenezer]

the point about Bledsoe was that he is still better than any of the three slugs we have here...there was never a call to bring him back...:rolleyes:

[Iehoshua]

the point about Bledsoe was that he is still better than any of the three slugs we have here...there was never a call to bring him back...:rolleyes:
He's still not good enough to bring a Super Bowl trophy to Buffalo. That's it, period.

Perhaps Losman isn't either but to judge at this point is simply shortsighted.

[Ebenezer]

He's still not good enough to bring a Super Bowl trophy to Buffalo. That's it, period.

Perhaps Losman isn't either but to judge at this point is simply shortsighted.
by that logic you then have to cut all 53
by that logic Kelly, Reed, Thomas and Smith sucked too and should have been cut after the first Super Bowl.

Bledsoe and PW and JJ were all better than their "replacements" and the team is paying for it...

[L.A. Playa]

I think this team lack chemistry, discipline and creativity. By creativity I dont mean more trick plays , I mean that the coaches are trying to fit players into a "system" rather than being creative enough to make a "system" to best use the players here and to cater to aplayers strength rather than their weaknesses.

I believe the talent is here but the coaching is seriously lacking.

[Ebenezer]

I think this team lack chemistry, discipline and creativity. By creativity I dont mean more trick plays , I mean that the coaches are trying to fit players into a "system" rather than being creative enough to make a "system" to best use the players here and to cater to aplayers strength rather than their weaknesses.

I believe the talent is here but the coaching is seriously lacking.
...and the coaches lost the core veterans along the way...

[Iehoshua]

by that logic you then have to cut all 53
by that logic Kelly, Reed, Thomas and Smith sucked too and should have been cut after the first Super Bowl.

Bledsoe and PW and JJ were all better than their "replacements" and the team is paying for it... Not every player has as great an influence over the team as a QB does, else they wouldn't be so scrutinized. It's sort of like a pitcher in baseball.

Kelly and crew led their respective Bills squad to 4 consecutive AFC titles. Bledsoe stumbled into 1. Bledsoe couldn't carry any member of the 90's 4 peat squad's jock. Perhaps Norwood's I suppose since the laundry could've gotten mixed up and they (wore)wear the same number...

[ublinkwescore]

LMAO
We are that bad, we do not have enough talent, and most of the palyers on the team have absolutly NO HART AT ALL.

Wether they gave up or not, they looked like crap and I could care less if we gutted all 52 players and started from scratch, because I have as about much respect for the Bills, the players and the organization these days as I have for the conservative right, and thats down in the negative numbers dsome where. The Bills suck, and so do republicans.

:limp:

[Mr. Cynical]

Bledsoe and PW and JJ were all better than their "replacements" and the team is paying for it...

:rolleyes:

I'm seriously beginning to believe Darth's assertion that Drew bought some of you a house and a car.

THE BILLS SUCK RIGHT NOW REGARDLESS OF WHO IS AT QB.

Drew would have gotten destroyed just like he has been the last few weeks in Dallas. Our oline sucks. So the team isn't paying for anything besides eating the salaries and dead cap of useless vets. JP has played 9 games so to make any judgement on him at this point is absurd to the nth degree.

[Ebenezer]

JP has played 9 games so to make any judgement on him at this point is absurd to the nth degree.


You guys don't win arguments by interjecting your interpertations into what others said...I never said JP was a bust...I said DB was better than any of the three slugs that we have playing QB. His team is over .500...he is the 5th rated passer in the NFC...our guys don't even register...can you at least admit that at this time he is a better QB than either of the three.....and no, I know you can't. I am sure that the personnel departments of at least 31 NFL teams wouldn't agree with you either.

[ScottLawrence]

Are we playing bad? Yes, no doubt. But I attribute the last 7 weeks to the team basically giving up. Sure they say they’re playing hard but there will always be a difference between playing hard at 4-8 with nothing on the line, and playing hard at 8-4 and a playoff spot staring you in the face.
Don’t be fooled by looking at the win loss record.
I don’t know why they gave up. Maybe dislike of the coach, maybe they figured we were out of the playoffs anyway. Who knows?
It’s human nature to have a let down in this type of situation. I know I’ll get the responses, Well, if they give up, they should be cut. But that’s BS! It’s as natural as can be to let your guard down.
When you’re 3-11 you’re going to be a lot less likely to throw your body in front of Jerome Bettis with reckless abandon as you would if you were 11-3 and fighting for home field advantage.
And that goes for every aspect of the game. The energy level will be slightly different for the Bills and Bengals this week.
My contention all along was that this team does have talent (maybe not at QB). We just have not found the right guy to lead them into battle.


Truth is, we aren't


Had we started the better quarterback from the beginning of the season, we aren't 4-10, we are probably around 6-8, 7-7, or 8-6, and the team isn't falling apart.

People will critcize me for saying this, but hes basically killed the entire team.

[ScottLawrence]

You guys don't win arguments by interjecting your interpertations into what others said...I never said JP was a bust...I said DB was better than any of the three slugs that we have playing QB. His team is over .500...he is the 5th rated passer in the NFC...our guys don't even register...can you at least admit that at this time he is a better QB than either of the three.....and no, I know you can't. I am sure that the personnel departments of at least 31 NFL teams wouldn't agree with you either.


I'll take a majority of the starters in this league over Bledsoe, even our back up in Holcomb.

Did you follow the Bills in 2002?

Its the exact same year he had then, as he came out hot, and is slowly starting to come back to his below average form.


Theres too much needed for Bledsoe to even be an average quarterback, that, along with his inability to play on the road, or against good teams, is just not something you want.

[Mr. Cynical]

I'll take a majority of the starters in this league over Bledsoe, even our back up in Holcomb.

Did you follow the Bills in 2002?

Its the exact same year he had then, as he came out hot, and is slowly starting to come back to his below average form.

Theres too much needed for Bledsoe to even be an average quarterback, that, along with his inability to play on the road, or against good teams, is just not something you want.

Exactly.


I said DB was better than any of the three slugs that we have playing QB. His team is over .500...he is the 5th rated passer in the NFC...

They are ONE game above .500...not exactly lighting it up. If you do your homework on Drew's performance over the season, you will see a steep decline after mid season as many of us predicted. (not that it was hard to do...just look at his entire career to see the trend)

His record against teams over .500 this year? He's 3-5.

Two of them came in the first half of the year, Game 1: SD and Game 6: NYG. The third was against KC in Game 14 (his best game of the year).

Yes it is a team game, but they are holding on by their fingernails and Drew's horrid performance last week was MOSTLY his fault. I have no problem saying he was the primary (not the only) reason for them losing. The facts are there plain as day.

He is not better than JP IMO. Put JP behind Dallas' oline and I bet he does at least as well if not better.

Anyway moot and completely overtired debate. This thread is about the TEAM not being bad and I can say with complete confidence THIS TEAM SUCKS from the GM on down. We are 30-48. Nuff said.