Was Bledsoe worth a first round pick?

[BufBlue4ever60]

I wrote this because people are saying that Jon Gruden was worth a 1st and 2nd round pick. So what do you think.

[justasportsfan]

Yup. I say this because our cap allows us to go out and get proven FA's that could make an impact right away instead of a 1st rd. project.

Win today or wait for a promise that mat never come.

[clumping platelets]

Yes!

[LtBillsFan66]

Definitely!

[venis2k1]

actully they gave 2 firsts and 2 seconds for gruden

[SABURZFAN]

without a doubt.

[JayWood]

There is no question about it...Drew was worth the first round pick!!!

[lordofgun]

I agree. Plus we have more money to play with since we don't have to sign a first-rounder. :D

[LtBillsFan66]

Asking if Drew was worth it is as silly as asking if a frog's butt is water tight!

[ArcticWildMan]

Absolutely!!!!

[McD]

Definitely worth it! Our first rounder this year (Drew) has already contributed (and at a damn high level), and will for a few years. Now let's go buy a D!!!

McD

[Pride]

lets see, our 2003 first round draft pick is a QB and is a backup in the pro-bowl.

Throw out his stats, the record, his age, and Noone would be asking this question.

[THATHURMANATOR]

I would say so!!!

[justasportsfan]

Wys? yes or no?

[The_Philster]

Yep

[RedEyE]

Ask me again in a year.

[shelby]

YES!!!!!:D

[Dman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pride
[B]lets see, our 2003 first round draft pick is a QB and is a backup in the pro-bowl.

...In addition he spent his "senior" year....getting well aquainted with our system, coaches and team mates..and the new unis...
:10:

[justasportsfan]

Nice to see ya back Dman. How've you been?

[Lone Stranger]

Would you like a first round draft choice who threw for 24 toucdowns his first year? Anyway losing a first round draft choice is not that devastating since it frees up money for a free agent pickup. Which Tampa Bay probably considered as well.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I dunno. We could have gotten Blake, Peete or Chandler for free.

[WG]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
Wys? yes or no?

Why do you ask such obvious questions? :madcurse:

Troublemaker! :D

No! Further, I think this team would have won more games by signing John Parrella at DT and using Brown, Blake, or Chandler at QB and still having this selection this year in which we could have chosen a younger QB to backfill. I also think we'd be in much better shape for next season as well.



Originally posted by RedEyE
Ask me again in a year.

I think a lot of people are on hold over this until the outcome of next season and since I'm a bettin' man, I'd wager that there will be a significant amount of controversy after next season on this. I also agree that it is too early to say that this was undoubtedly worth it. B/c of Drew plays next season vs. the top opponents just like he did this season, and if we still rely on him in a "pass-first" type of offense, then I don't think the argument can be made that it was worth it. We need a QB who knows how to play well vs. teams 10-6 or better, not one who rarely beats such teams.

Career

11-32 v. 10-6+
4-21 v. 11-5+
1-11 v. 12-4+

2002

0-1 v. 12-4 (0 TDs, 2 INTs, 4 FUM, 2 FUM Lost)
0-1 v. 11-5 (2 TDs, 3 INTs)
0-4 v. Playoff teams (3 TDs, 9 INTs, 3 FUM Lost)
2-4 v. 9-7 (8 TDs, 9 INTs, 1 FUM Lost)
1-2 v. 8-8 (3 TDs, 1 INT)
5-0 v. 6-12- (11 TDs, 0 INTs, 4 FUM, 1 Lost FUM)

All I can say is if that trend continues then most of you aren't going to be happy next season either! We don't need a QB who can light it up for half his production against the weakest 5 teams on the schedule.



Originally posted by fmr60
Would you like a first round draft choice who threw for 24 toucdowns his first year?

It's interesting that you phrase it like that 60. I would ask, would you like a first round draft choice who threw:

only 7 TDs and 15 INTs in the 7 toughest games all resulting in losses, or;

only 3 TDs and 9 INTs vs. playoff opponents this season also all in losses.

I think that even the cruddiest QBs in the league can match or come close to matching those numbers. I will also depart from conventional fan opinion stating that there's no way we could have beaten Houston, Cincy, Detroit, Minnesota, Chicago, and Miami twice w/o Fiedler, and S.D. I think we would have won most if not all of those games anyway. Drew hardly even contributed in the first Miami win or in the S.D. win which we only won when we ran Henry at the last minute anyway after abandoning Drew and an ineffective passing game anyway.

Nevertheless, no need for a retort. I know just about everyone on this board vehemently disagrees with me.

;)

[justasportsfan]

Sorry guys my bad for asking wys:hitself:

I asked yes or no, instead I get the lotto numbers.

[WG]

Silly you...

:D

[Earthquake Enyart]

Originally posted by Wys Guy


I think that even the cruddiest QBs in the league can match or come close to matching those numbers. I will also depart from conventional fan opinion stating that there's no way we could have beaten Houston, Cincy, Detroit, Minnesota, Chicago, and Miami twice w/o Fiedler, and S.D. I think we would have won most if not all of those games anyway. Drew hardly even contributed in the first Miami win or in the S.D. win which we only won when we ran Henry at the last minute anyway after abandoning Drew and an ineffective passing game anyway.



Of all the things you've written (that I have actually read) this may be the silliest paragraph ever. With a crappy QB we'd have been lucky to win half of these games. Most of them were dogfights.

[WG]

Why? Plenty of "crappy QBs" beat those same teams on offenses w/ only a fraction of the talent that we have.

Many scored even more points. I've pointed them out before.

So why is that notion silly other than b/c you want it to be?

[WG]

If Cleveland could beat Houston by putting up 34 instead of the 31 we did w/ Couch, the rookie Green at RB, and the rookie Morgan at WR as their leading trio, then why is it such a laugh that we couldn't have beaten them w/ Blake or Chandler and the slew of talent we have? Drew actually underperformed Couch in terms of leading the O to points.

There's at least another dozen games suggesting that what I said was true, at least. I'm happy to post them for you if it will change your mind.

[justasportsfan]

this is what makes you paragraph silly wys. you should listen to the guy who started this thread.

http://www.billsfanzone.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2395&highlight=drew

pay attention to the title of the thread

[Earthquake Enyart]

:rofl:

[Cntrygal]

:lol:

[Voltron]

:lolpoint: wys

[WG]

Originally posted by justasportsfan
this is what makes you paragraph silly wys. you should listen to the guy who started this thread.

http://www.billsfanzone.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2395&highlight=drew

pay attention to the title of the thread

Did ya happen to take note of the date there Just?

9-16

Things change, which apparently I'm the only one who recognizes that since everyone else is and was living off of Drew's initial 6 games in supporting him. That was after 2 games and I was being gracious in implying that perhaps, and hopefully I might add, I was wrong. But it turns out I wasn't since he completely crapped the bed against the 7 toughest opponents we faced all season after that.

10 TDs/10 INTs in the 10 weeks after those first 6 games. OH BOY! Those are allstar numbers! Wow Wee! :D

In the meantime, Henry found his groove, the D found theirs, and guess what, your boy Drew lost his, almost completely playing like a second-rate retread down the stretch.

I'm tryin' to be really good here, but apparently y'all won't have it. So time to let the Drew stuff fly again, eh! Your choice...

He sucks and always has!!! ;)

Many of you will be saying I was right this upcoming season!

[WG]

I'll even pick out 7 games and wager anyone here, cash or ZBs, that Drew can't toss more TDs than INTs in those games and that we're not at least .500 in them.

That's how confident that I am that he sucks that bad!

[Earthquake Enyart]

Originally posted by Wys Guy


He sucks and always has!!! ;)




Well, apparently he had one shining moment on Sept. 16 where you thought he was pretty good. :snicker:

[WG]

Yes! He had shining moments against several teams:

Minnesota (6-10; 30th ranked scoring D)
Chicago (4-12; 25th ranked scoring D)
Detroit (3-13; 31st ranked scoring D)
Denver (8-8; 15th ranked scoring D)
Houston (4-12; 20th ranked scoring D)

Other than the Miami game, that was about it. He also had quite a few "less than shining" moments as well. ;)

So unless we face a bunch of teams that are all 6-10, 4-12, and 3-13, and get to play several other teams w/o their starting QBs and WRs, then I'd sure say there's some cause for concern coming out of our QB position.

[WG]

Oh yeah, and did I mention that Drew was 3-8 v. teams .500 or better this season with a whopping 13 TDs in those 11 games and 15 INTs...

OOPS! I think I did... Sorry! :D

Gosh, I sure hope he puts up those kind of numbers next season...!

:rolleyes:

[Voltron]

You confuse me Wys. When Rob was in town you were all behind him. ( I admit I was too until the very end).

Now we have a QB that does a lot more than try to figure out what the clouds are shaped like while he is on his back and you give him 5 games and claims he sucks.

I am not attacking you as a poster but your logic in supporting a QB with no potential, no love for the area, and no brains. But not suppoting a QB that has already proven himself in this league, who is a Pro-bowl player, has been to 2 SB, likes the area and bought a house with in the first month he was here (RJ lived in a hotel I believe) and not only is a smart player but a good person.

[WG]

I don't care if he buys half of Buffalo. The question is can he go play in the playoffs and the Super Bowl w/o giving the game away?

The answer to that is "very unlikely." Never throughout his entire career has he shown the propensity to play well in big games let alone play well in them. Never!

These "SB appearances" that you talk about, the Pats made the playoffs in spite of him, not b/c of him. You'd have to be blind to not see that after viewing the boxscores and play-by-play. I also think most of us watched every one of those games anyway.

Has he really changed his style of play this season? NO! He's the same old Drew that I said sucked while he was in N.E., yet w/o all the friendly fan animosity.

If his horrendous play this season vs. those same exact teams is supposed to excite me, it isn't working. He can only beat divisional teams with very significant injuries and "Rob Johnson-like" QBs at the helm. That's a fact! NOT my opinion. It's a real, true-to-life fact!

As to RJ, he didn't have a history behind him prior to Buffalo. I know he has issues, but he played at least a dozen very good if not excellent games for us while he was here. Instead, everyone focuses on the handful, 4 or 5 absolutely abysmal games that he had last season and blames him for not winning games on the same exact bases that Drew is given a pass. The logical flaws behind those supporting Drew are the problem.

Meanwhile, we're all really expected to believe, which is absolutely laughable, that we could only have beaten teams like 2-14 Cincy, 4-12 Houston, an expansion team, 4-12 Chicago, 3-13 Detroit only b/c of Drew? Come on now...

Further, in the other three wins, Drew had only 2 TDs in those and we almost lost the S.D. b/c of him. We had the fortunes of the D playing well enough in that game that allowed us to turn to Henry on our last drive for the win. Drew and the passing game only led us to 13 points, 1 TD, 2 FGs, thru 57 minutes. Miami game was similar.

We have the Ostrich Club over here with their heads in the sand saying we could only have beaten the league's scrubs w/ Drew.

Do you honestly believe that? If so, if we're really that bad, then we have no shot at all next year and we're at least 2 seasons away from doing anything at all.

What are Drew's real accolades that aren't totally subjective? It's essentially yards thrown for, attempts, and completions in the context of the past, namely "being the youngest QB to..." whatever.

Are those important? Yards, attempts, completions?

Or would you say wins, performances against the better teams, and TDs and lack of INTs are more important?

I'd say it's the latter. How many other QBs are there in the league who have around 4 seasons out of about 10 or so where they threw for more than 20 TDs? I'd say there's plenty or a whole bunch really close to it.

You'll see, Drew will do the same thing next year that he did this. He'll pitch 80+% of all of his INTs in the 6 or 7 games that we most desparately need to win while amassing huge yardage numbers against teams w/o Ds like Cincy again and the other 3 or 4 weakest teams on our schedule. It's a dang good thing for Drew that we had an easy schedule this season. Next year it toughens up, and I'm tellin' ya, waiting for him to change his ways is like waiting for a leopard to change his spots.

Now, as to this position that I'm taking, I've tried, several times to quit talking about this stuff. I didn't start this thread. My first post was quite matter of fact and I was just chiming in before all the assaults and "implications" started. I can't win for losing, so I'll at least get my money's worth. ;)

[WG]

The bottom line there Voltron is that sometimes the best thing that a player can do to help their team win is to simply not make mistakes. Drew is one of those players when the big games come up. He certainly didn't do much to help us win games in losses. He put up only contributed 10 TDs in all 8 losses combined. Yet, he put up every single one of his 15 INTs. Which do you think had a greater impact? The 1.2 TDs/game, or the very Brees/Flutie-like 1.5 INTs/game for a .8 TD/INT ratio?

Who cares if he can light up the scrub teams for 3 TDs/game. Big deal! Many QBs who don't cost half of what Drew does can do that. Heck, Van Pelt did it once last year too.

Come on here! This isn't higher math. It's simple common sense. Now if we're happy being .500 w/ no shot at any sort of success in the playoffs, then we'll all be happy. I'm not at all impressed or satisfied w/ mere playoff appearances anymore.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
The answer to that is "very unlikely." Never throughout his entire career has he shown the propensity to play well in big games let alone play well in them. Never!




How about last year's AFC Championship?

BTW, Ostrich club was pretty funny. :snicker:

[WG]

Yeah, what about it EE? I've asked the same exact question before w/o getting a sensible answer that wasn't simply a laundry list of excuses and drivel. Here's what he did in that game:

In a game in which Brady was 12/18 (67%), 6.4 YPA, for 115 in less than a half, Drew was 10/21 (48%), 4.9 YPA, for 102 yards.

Drive 1: Drew came in for Brady halfway down the field at the Pittsburgh 40. He went 3/3 for 36 yards and TD.

Drive 2: Starting at the Pittsburgh 35, Drew was 1/4 for 4 yards, possession lost on downs. Impressive?

Drive 3: Drew was 0/1 and on sack on 3rd-and-12 for a loss of 10 and to force a punt. Impressive?

Drive 4: Drew was 3/5 for 34 on a drive on which 2 of the 3 Pats 1st downs came by running the ball. The drive ended on a Drew incompletion on 3rd-and-4 at the Pittsburgh 26. FG Pats. Impressive?

Drive 5: On a drive begun at the Pat 9 YL, Drew led the team on a 9-play, 28 yard drive. He was 3/7 for 29 yards and had 1 sack. The drive stalled on a Bledsoe incompletion on 3rd-and-10. Impressive?

Drive 6: 0/1 w/ the drive ending on a Bledsoe incompletion, again, at the Pittsburgh 32. The result was a missed 50-yd FG. Impressive?

Drive 7: Ran out the clock on snaps after Smith rushed for one 1st down.

So is this really supposed to impress anyone? B/c I've heard so much about this game, and the only bright spot I can see is half a drive which probably caught the D by surprise in transition where Drew went 3/3 for a TD. Are we supposed to base a postseason game on 3 passes? All I hear from the "Ostrich Club" is how you can't just look at one or a few plays. You have to look at the entire game. Yet, when we do that, Drew sucked, no ifs, ands, or buts about it.

He was 7/18 for 66 yards other than those three plays and couldn't match Brady's totals in spite of having played more of the game.

It's ridiculous!

Look at it this way, if he did that for us here in the POs, would you be happy? I think not! Is it unfathomable that most other QBs could have had a game like that? I don't think so. Most QBs of this year's playoffs have certainly played better in at least one game.

[justasportsfan]

Wys gives Rob credit for a few good games he had in his 4 years as a bill and he blasts Drew on his 1st year. :scratch:

I think I'll go to the twilight zone where everything makes sense. BRB.

[WG]

:z:

Funny thing is that I'm sure that's the argument against everything I just laid out...

Back to sleep!

[Voltron]

Well obviously no one on Fox, CBS, ESPN or CNN/SI agrees with you. They played this game (most of them) professionally. Their Job during the week is to sit down and watch film! They seem to think that Drew is one of the best QBs in the league. I have heard it from every single one of them. I have also heard them say he holds on to the ball to long but they still say he is one of the top 5 QBs in the league.

A quandary......


If you were looking to buy a car would you listen to the advice of a mechanic or a hot Wing sauce maker when making your decision on whether to buy that car?

Just pickin Wys.
;)

[vabillsfan]

Ahem......well, that all depends. Lets look at the stats, shall we?

On Sundays when the sun shines in the month of September, Drew completes 82.794% of his passes and throws for an average of 2.8 TD's/game and 398.043 yds/game.

On those same Sundays when the top WR is hurt, his avg drops to 1.284 TDs and 246.0964 yds/gm.

However, when its partly cloudy or the wind is gusting up to 23.4 miles per hour, his stats drop considerably. But, if Henry is playing well and avgs 104 yds/gm, his stats go back to the Sept Sundays whenthe sun shines.

Once Oct/Nov roll around, his stat drop to 1.94 TDs/gm and 201.2 yds/gm, unless Travis Henry fumbles, and then all hell breaks loose.

In Oct/Nov if its really cold, it worse. When the snow falls early, his stats actually go up.

Now, take his age, divde by the number of years in the league, add in his avg yd/s per game times his avg td's/gm, factor in wind chill and avg temp, plus wind gust (unless its blowing N/S) and I think he was worth it. Of course if the wind blows E/W we're screwed because it drops his stats to .93 tds/gm and 101.984 yds/gm. Go figure!

Throw it all away though if it rains. Then he was not worth it.

Of course, this doesn't count whether or not its a sellout at the Ralph. And then, when the opposing team's starting defense has 80.38% of its starters playing, his numbers go WAY down.

So my friends, the stats tell us.........................NOTHING!

Hell yes it was worth it!

Go Bills, Go Drew!!

[Earthquake Enyart]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Yeah, what about it EE

Look at it this way, if he did that for us here in the POs, would you be happy? I think not! Is it unfathomable that most other QBs could have had a game like that? I don't think so. Most QBs of this year's playoffs have certainly played better in at least one game.

Who won the game?

I don't care if he's 10 for 80 for 30 yards. A win is a win is a win.

[Patrick76777]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Oh yeah, and did I mention that Drew was 3-8 v. teams .500 or better this season with a whopping 13 TDs in those 11 games and 15 INTs...

OOPS! I think I did... Sorry! :D

Gosh, I sure hope he puts up those kind of numbers next season...!

:rolleyes:


Was Drew 3-8 vs. winning teams this year or was our team 3-8 vs. winning teams this year?

[WG]

What, are you guys Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum?


Originally posted by Earthquake Enyart


Who won the game?

I don't care if he's 10 for 80 for 30 yards. A win is a win is a win.

I got you tellin' us that Bledsoe won the game while Tweedle-Dum is tellin' us that it should count as a team win down below! Perhaps you two should figure this out.

As for me, since only 7 points had anything at all to do with Bledsoe (less than a 14 PPG avg.), and since the STs scored the other two TDs, and since on the Pats lone FG drive, Drew only contributed 1 pass for 6 yards, and since the Pat D still held the Steelers to only 17 points, I'd say that the STs and D won that game! Call me crazy, but 7 points, witness this year's N.E. game, isn't enough to win many games in this league.



Originally posted by Patrick76777



Was Drew 3-8 vs. winning teams this year or was our team 3-8 vs. winning teams this year?

Good question! Great question in fact!

You tell me! Last year "Rob" was 1-6 or whatever and took all the heat. So now this 3-8 mark all of a sudden belongs to the team?

Sounds like a hot potato except that RJ had to play w/ his hands tied.

You guys crack me up. Tweedle-dopes. :D (Just messin')

[SABURZFAN]

Oy Vey......


:shakeno:

[WG]

Don't look at me. Look at the two on the same side of the argument who can't figure it out between themselves. I'm just pointin' it out.

;)

[THATHURMANATOR]

"What, are you guys Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum? "

Hey watch the name calling and insults bro...

[THATHURMANATOR]

EE never said Bledsoe won the game by himself I think it was implied as a team win IMO.

[Patrick76777]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
What, are you guys Tweedle-Dee and Tweedle-Dum?



I got you tellin' us that Bledsoe won the game while Tweedle-Dum is tellin' us that it should count as a team win down below! Perhaps you two should figure this out.

As for me, since only 7 points had anything at all to do with Bledsoe (less than a 14 PPG avg.), and since the STs scored the other two TDs, and since on the Pats lone FG drive, Drew only contributed 1 pass for 6 yards, and since the Pat D still held the Steelers to only 17 points, I'd say that the STs and D won that game! Call me crazy, but 7 points, witness this year's N.E. game, isn't enough to win many games in this league.




Good question! Great question in fact!

You tell me! Last year "Rob" was 1-6 or whatever and took all the heat. So now this 3-8 mark all of a sudden belongs to the team?

Sounds like a hot potato except that RJ had to play w/ his hands tied.

You guys crack me up. Tweedle-dopes. :D (Just messin')


I wasn’t here last year…….So you’re surly not talking about me. I always have said that it’s a team game……Last year we had Henry in his first season, a terrible O-line and a defense without a strong MLB….This year we had a better, albeit inexperienced O-line (should get better), Henry in his second season (should get better) Bledsoe (stats alone and the fact that he started all 16 games makes him a step up from RJ, and a strong MLB. We went from 3 wins to 8 wins. If all Henry, the O-line and the defense improves this offseason, we should go from 8 wins to 10 or 11. It’s all about the complete team…..Put Joe Montana in his prime on the Bungles of this year and maybe they win 4 or 5 games…..Put Dan Marino on the Lions and maybe they win 4 or 5 games, put Rich Gannon on the Texans and maybe they win 4 or 5 games. A team needs to be strong in every aspect of the game, and you can say all you want about how well the defense played at the end of the year, but the fact remains, that they were not a Superbowl caliber squad.

I wouldn’t take Brad Johnson on my team, but yet, you put him with a Number 1 defense and he’s in the Superbowl…..RJ and DF both played with a number 1 defense……I don’t remember any Superbowl. Let’s give Drew that same chance before we run him out of town.

[Iehoshua]

Was Bledsoe worth a first round pick?

No.

[justasportsfan]

Wys gives Rob credit for a few good games he had in his 4 years as a bill and he blasts Drew on his 1st year. :scratch:

I think I'll go to the twilight zone where everything makes sense. BRB.

WTF? Did I say that?

I supported Drew but I know when enough is enough. Time to move on. Some people just don't learn.

[Iehoshua]

WTF? Did I say that?


:lolpoint: DrewLover!

:jk:

I was so excited when we first traded for Drew I went out and bought both home and away replica jerseys. Glad they weren't authentics... :whew:

Time has proven Drew is not the guy to lead us, in my eyes...

[FTG]

WTF? Did I say that?

I supported Drew but I know when enough is enough. Time to move on. Some people just don't learn.

Same here. When he came here I said yes. In hindsight I say HELL NO!. I don't even care about the pick. Just get him the hell outta here now.

[Mr. Cynical]

Not just a #1, but $21M and counting.....

[lordofgun]

I still think it was worth a shot at the time.

[Iehoshua]

I still think it was worth a shot at the time.

In comparison with other high profile trades, however (Dillon, Owens) I think we got shafted...

[pats-were-right]

That WG is a frigging prophet

[justasportsfan]

That WG is a frigging prophetw/ a stuttering problem... keeps repeating himself :crazy:

[Mr. Cynical]

I still think it was worth a shot at the time.
I will admit it - I thought the same thing. I was excited about the deal. However, I was under the same spell that many others were and failed to do my homework on him. When the wheels came off mid-02, I did that homework and realized we got shafted by BB.

But I'm not an "expert" so I'm allowed to be wrong. :; Problem is our experts kept him on even after '03 when it was painfully clear he was done.