I want an honest statement from you guys. [Archive] - BillsZone.com

ICE74129

12-31-2005, 11:17 AM

JayWood

12-31-2005, 11:20 AM

It has been a season to forget...so if we could at least be able to go into the offseason on a high note (getting a "w") I am all for it. Have never, and will never wish for a Bills loss

HHURRICANE

12-31-2005, 11:29 AM

I never want the Bills to lose, but I can't say that I hope they win this one because of the simple fact that changes need to be made here immediately.

A loss to a team like the Jets could mean the nail in the coffin for a lot of these losers that need to be shown the pink slip... a win probably keeps them skating on thin ice.

Couldn't have said it better myself!!:goodpost:

The_Philster

12-31-2005, 11:35 AM

I'd have to stop calling myself a Bills fan if I wanted them to lose

DynaPaul

12-31-2005, 11:47 AM

I want the Bills to win always but I definitely want the Bills to lose Mularkey and Donahoe.

BAM

12-31-2005, 11:58 AM

ENOUGH... i hope we CRUSH the Jets!

Same here. This thread is crap.

Stewie

12-31-2005, 12:03 PM

because winning later might = playoffs, super bowl, happiness as bills fans for once in our lives.

winning now guarentees us a losing season and a victory over a team with 3 wins. not exactly stuff to get excited about.

And winning later might = going 1 - 16 next year. What a stupid comment.

You play to win, period. If you disagree you have no heart.

ICE74129

12-31-2005, 12:05 PM

Same here. This thread is crap.

How do you figure? Do you care to even come with something of substance or stand behind a 5th grade response?

I at least come with a well thought out view

ICE74129

12-31-2005, 12:06 PM

And winning later might = going 1 - 16 next year. What a stupid comment.

You play to win, period. If you disagree you have no heart.

That is fine for the Actual players. But what is best for this franchise is another loss. as a FAN I hope it comes. That way the changes that need to be made, to help those that don't quit, actually come.

BAM

12-31-2005, 12:08 PM

How do you figure? Do you care to even come with something of substance or stand behind a 5th grade response?

I at least come with a well thought out view
Well thought out? That's totally your opinion. I'd say it was poorly thought out.

It's like a broken record. I really don't see any reason to explain myself for the 30th time.

It's a given. You root for your team to win. I've said it many times before, you kind of "fans" make me want to puke. Grow some balls or show some heart or something. Go Buffalo.

feelthepain

12-31-2005, 12:16 PM

I say if it improves your drafting position it's the best thing for your "team" not the fans. Miami was in this same position last year against the Pats even though we won that game, before it started we had this same kind of thread. In the long run Miami got the best player in the draft. For the Fins I'm thrilled we got Brown and can live with another loss to have a player of Browns ability in a fins uni for years to come. Bottom line is it depends on the fan and their point of view.

The_Philster

12-31-2005, 12:18 PM

drafting position be damned..I want a win...besides, the ONLY thing a better draft slot guarantees is that you have to pay out more to sign your pick

tat2dmike77

12-31-2005, 12:26 PM

And winning later might = going 1 - 16 next year. What a stupid comment.

You play to win, period. If you disagree you have no heart.

Absolutly!! I never want to see a team just pack it in. I honestly don't think that beating the sorry :jetsuck: will save any ones job in the organization.

I mean your supposed to play to win no matter what!

tat2dmike77

12-31-2005, 12:27 PM

Well thought out? That's totally your opinion. I'd say it was poorly thought out.

It's like a broken record. I really don't see any reason to explain myself for the 30th time.

It's a given. You root for your team to win. I've said it many times before, you kind of "fans" make me want to puke. Grow some balls or show some heart or something. Go Buffalo.

:goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost: :goodpost:

FirstDownBills

12-31-2005, 01:24 PM

A win against the Jets= Mularkey and TD staying and it will give them reason to believe the 5 game losing streak was just a bad slide and that every team has those. Then we'll get to the draft and draft another WR in the 1st round. I don't wish for the Bills to lose either but I can see this happening now and fans *****ing and moaning and I'll be one of the few who will ask "so how does that win against the Jets still feel?"

pleasesavedrew

12-31-2005, 02:48 PM

Honestly, who here besides me wants to see the Bills (esp Holcomb) get stomped tomorrow?

I want to see Herm Edwards guys play for HIS job. We need to get TD and MM out of here. On the heels of Cinci having a total brainfart, we need to get beat by a division rival in our last game. 5-11.

I feel as is, we win this thing, NO Changes will be made. That will = 7-9 at best next year and I for one am tired of this crap.:rage:

True fans never root for there team to lose. I think any decision in terms of jobs has already been decided and nothin these last two games change. I hope TD and MM are fired, but I want them tomarow. Im sick of losing. Winning is why you have a favorite team.

bledslow

12-31-2005, 04:48 PM

I guess I am the only one that is strong enough to want what is best for the team. See that is what gets me, the short sightedness of Bills fans.

'But it will be better next year'. No it wont. And it never will under Tom Donahoe. Here is what I can't wait for. We win this game, TD and MM Stay. They sign a DT, WR and LG in free agency. Then some top name pick or two in the draft. All of a sudden this and every board out there will be screaming 'THIS IS THE YEAR!'.

But it won't be. Holcomb, a career backup, will start and we will end up 7-9, maybe 8-8 and miss out on the playoffs for a 7th year. Then we do it all over again because by 07, we will have to replace about 4-5 remaining starters on Defense due to age. Then what?

Guys, it is past time to TRUELY rebuild. Just take the lumps and friggin re build the RIGHT Way. TD came in and RE TOOLED and did it wrong. I look at a Tampa team that was 5-11 last year, 5th pick in the draft I believe....will most likely be 11-5 this year and in the playoffs.

I look at a carolina team that was 1-15....1 and friggin 15, they go 11-5 and a superbowl trip. In 5 full years, with total control Tom Donahoe can't even get to .500 unless we play the worst teams in the entire NFL and most of those at home!

Nothing will change unless he and MM are gone. Nothing. I hope the Jets crush us in one of the most embarrassing losses in Bills history. Then we can get these clowns out of town and hopefully do it right this time.

i said it before and i will say it again. young,gannon, brad jonson,delhomme ect,were all considered backups at one point also.but with a little bit of talent around them(along with these qb's themselves getting better) they turned out to be real good. kelly gives buf a great chance at leading buf to the playoffs next year. jp guarantees you 3-4 wins(if the defense plays out of there minds) and a ton of blooper highlights from him pretending to be a nfl qb.

HIGH DRAFT CHOICES DO NOT MAKE YOU BETTER,SMART DRAFT CHOICES DO. there is always exceptional talent in each round(even the last round at times),you have to have a good eye,and some luck. i hope someday,the ppl with the LOSERS MENTALITY see this.

LtBillsFan66

12-31-2005, 04:50 PM

I want the Bills to win. Because I'll be at the game!

gr8slayer

12-31-2005, 05:07 PM

I NEVER wish for the Bills to lose.
And that is being a true fan right there. A real fan does not wish for his team to lose.

Cntrygal

12-31-2005, 05:17 PM

Playing to lose is NEVER acceptable.

gr8slayer

12-31-2005, 05:32 PM

Playing to lose is NEVER acceptable.
Exactly.

ICE74129

12-31-2005, 05:40 PM

i said it before and i will say it again. young,gannon, brad jonson,delhomme ect,were all considered backups at one point also.but with a little bit of talent around them(along with these qb's themselves getting better) they turned out to be real good. kelly gives buf a great chance at leading buf to the playoffs next year. jp guarantees you 3-4 wins(if the defense plays out of there minds) and a ton of blooper highlights from him pretending to be a nfl qb.

HIGH DRAFT CHOICES DO NOT MAKE YOU BETTER,SMART DRAFT CHOICES DO. there is always exceptional talent in each round(even the last round at times),you have to have a good eye,and some luck. i hope someday,the ppl with the LOSERS MENTALITY see this.

And those with any clue have said before and will say again....Kelly holcomb is a career wannabe. He NEVER going to lead this team anywhere. I can say right now, he starts next year we don't make the playoffs. So why are we wasting time on a career backup with a losing record? We are wasting time in an attempt to be a 7-9 team instead of developing or trying to develop a guy that might take us some where. Even if he doesn't you MUST give him every chance to see what he does or doesnt have. We already know KH isn't a good enough QB to be a starter full time in this league.

This would have been the perfect year to just leave JP in there the full season. Instead TD and MM tried to buck all NFL Reality and do BOTH. Develop a QB and make the playoffs. Sorry you can't have both. All you did was accomplish NOTHING this year.

ICE74129

12-31-2005, 05:44 PM

Playing to lose is NEVER acceptable.

Who said it was? I said 'I' Me the fan wants the team to lose. I never advocate the TEAM tanking it or playing to lose.

I feel the best thing FOR THIS TEAM is to not only lose but lose HUGE! That is the only chance we have of Ralph firing TD and MM. If not, I hope you guys enjoy YEARS of 6-10 to 8-8 because that is all we will field in Buffalo.

6 years no playoffs. in the last 5 years we have the 3rd worst record. We are now the only AFC team in the last 5 years to not make the playoffs other than the texans. We are tied for 1st or 2nd for the longest amount of years without a playoff birth. Tom Donahoe has proven he can't field a winning team. We win Sunday and I guarentee he stays.

So you guys say one worthless win, is worth sitting in football hell for at least another season? I say hell no, Jets need to win and win big.

And one last thing, I have been providing well thought out post with links when needed. And for that I now have a negative rep again? Come on. I see posters with stupid one line or even one word replies with positive reps.

ICE74129

12-31-2005, 05:51 PM

And now my rep goes lower? So it is kiss ass, not provide well thought out posts?

The_Philster

12-31-2005, 05:51 PM

The arrogant user title wouldn't have anything to do with it, would it? :scratch:
Especially considering the anti-Bills content of your posts of late

The_Philster

12-31-2005, 05:52 PM

You claim to be a Bills fan yet you root for losses..how well-thought out is that?

ICE74129

12-31-2005, 06:04 PM

You claim to be a Bills fan yet you root for losses..how well-thought out is that?

Very well. I see the big picture. Winning means nothing at this stage. It forces us lower on the draft picks, It helps ensure MM and TD stay. It causes more sentiment for a Career backup to start next year, further hurting JP's progress.

I can go on.

I am not anti Bills. I am anti Ralph Wilson, TD, MM, Holcomb, Moulds and the rest of the veterans that flat out didn't play when JP Was in there. I am pro BILLS. That means I want the Bills to succeed even over the wants of RW, TD etc.

To be the Bills I Want (Contenders) we need for TD and crew to go. Winning a MEANINGLESS game doesn't help that goal. Sometimes you need to see the bigger picture. Hell I would be willing to go 0-16 if it meant a house cleaning so we can get the right guys in here and have a DECADE of being competitive again. But that is just me.

I am also willing to sacrifice a season per say ( as was coughlin, Marvin Lewis etc) to get our QB all the reps he needs to prepare to hit the ground running next year.

But for some reason, winning one meaningless game is more important than the big picture. To me that makes me one of the few REAL fans. Do whatever it takes (Even losing) to make the changes nessacary to become contenders again.

But don't worry, We will win tomorrow. Then TD and MM stay and next December the same ones whining about 'Win now' will be complaining because we are out of the playoffs for a 7th straight season, and we will be about 7-9 to 8-8 and not much better off than now. But here is the REAL kicker. Because we will have put up a couple more wins...TD And MM stay AGAIN. And we just keep repeating this process of being mediocre or worse.

lordofgun

12-31-2005, 06:42 PM

My heart will root for the Bills, but my head will root for the Jets.

How gay does that sound? :limp:

Dr. Lecter

12-31-2005, 07:30 PM

Whenever one roots for the Bills to lose, you have proven not to be a Bills fan.

lordofgun

12-31-2005, 07:34 PM

Whenever one roots for the Bills to lose, you have proven not to be a Bills fan.
You're right! I change my views! I want the Bills to mire in mediocrity for years with subpar management and coaching! That's a true fan!

honey

12-31-2005, 07:37 PM

:gobills:

I hope they beat the Jets bigtime tomorrow! :up:

Dr. Lecter

12-31-2005, 07:38 PM

Do you really think beating the Jets is going to save the job of people that should be fired?

The result of this game is meaningless in that regard. The team will win 5 or 6 games this season. If TD stays (Highly unlikely), it will not because the Bills beat the Jets. MM might stay, based on what the team did last year, the length if his contract and the fact that the team has not given up on him.

lordofgun

12-31-2005, 07:43 PM

Do you really think beating the Jets is going to save the job of people that should be fired?

Yes. You honestly think if we get thumped tomorrow by the lowly Jets that it won't greatly improve the chances of MM and TD getting canned?

honey

12-31-2005, 07:44 PM

I still want the Bills to win! :biggrin:

ICE74129

12-31-2005, 07:46 PM

Yes. You honestly think if we get thumped tomorrow by the lowly Jets that it won't greatly improve the chances of MM and TD getting canned?

LOG I have always respected your opinions. Now even more so, you actually get it!

lordofgun

12-31-2005, 07:57 PM

Think of the outcry if the JEts beat us! The pressure on Ralph will be enormous!

gr8slayer

12-31-2005, 07:59 PM

Think of the outcry if the JEts beat us! The pressure on Ralph will be enormous!
Poor bastard might croak. The only good thing that might come out of a loss would be Ralph and TD being canned. Other than that, I dont quite get why anyone would want us to lose.

lordofgun

12-31-2005, 08:01 PM

Poor bastard might croak. The only good thing that might come out of a loss would be Ralph and TD being canned. Other than that, I dont quite get why anyone would want us to lose.
That's the whole point!

The_Philster

12-31-2005, 08:03 PM

That's the whole point!
Ralph dying and the team's future being in doubt is a good thing? :huh:

Dr. Lecter

12-31-2005, 10:13 PM

I guess so.

MM has been a coach for two years and has had limited O-line ability both seasons. Teams fire coaches too quickly these days.
I really don't care if MM stays or goes, I just don't understand why people think getting rid of him is a major step in the Bills improvement.

Dr. Lecter

12-31-2005, 10:15 PM

And for those that want the Bills to lose:

1. Should players tank the game? And if so, do you really want those players on the roster?
2. Should coaches tank the game?
3. If the team shows improvement, why is that bad?

FirstDownBills

01-01-2006, 01:38 AM

Ralph dying and the team's future being in doubt is a good thing? :huh:

Seriously, where do you get this from? I have been hearing the same **** about the Bills moving to L.A. but I've never heard anything of significance coming out of the media to back that. All of you are just being way too paranoid at this point. I shouldn't be surprised to see this happen. I remember after the Miami loss how bold and daring everyone would be at the final two home games to show off to Ralph our frustrations. Then when the sitout became intriguing most of us condemned it because we were afraid this would solidfy a move to L.A. What a bunch of garbage. Now one fluke win against Cincy and some of us are having doubts about rebuilding. A pure losers mentality. And no, by saying this this does not make me a phony Bills fan. I'm a fan who always wants to see my team win, and I have enough sense to realize that this team is going nowhere if they do not rebuild. I really hope todays game does not make or break TD and MM's future, but I get this funny feeling that if the Bills go in and win at the Meadowlands that Ralph will start to have some doubts about pushing through into rebuild mode. And thats something I don't think anyone on this board wants to see happen. Cause I know if it does, the bold and daring phase will return to this board once again, but nobody will stick to their word and they'll give themselves a false sense of hope about this team being a playoff team after we draft another WR in the 1st round and then a TE in the 2nd round.

lordofgun

01-01-2006, 01:45 AM

Bill Brasky

01-01-2006, 02:27 AM

And winning later might = going 1 - 16 next year. What a stupid comment.

You play to win, period. If you disagree you have no heart.
no heart?

as a season ticket holder i use almost all of my vaction time at work (i work weekends) to drive 14 hours to every game... so go **** yourself pal. if that is not devotion I don't know what is, considering half the people in the city of buffalo are too lazy to drive the 10 miles down to OP and attend half the games themselves! hell, you people won't even support the Sabres and they have the 4th best record in the NHL. i really wonder about Buffalo sports fans sometimes and for somebody to question MY loyalty is abusurd!

if this team played to win, why couldn't they beat a team like Oakland that won 4 ****ing games the whole season, but then beats Cincy on their own turf. i'll tell you why... because of incompetant coaching. they can't motivate these players until it no longer matters. this team is full of quitters, and I blame the coaching.

the staff needs to be shown the door, sans Wyche and April. the only way it happens is if the Jets embarrass them today.

would you rather take a meaningless win against a crappy Jets team and keep these idiot coaches and managment with a 6-10 season that gets us nowhere? or take 1 more loss, weed out the morons, and have a chance at actually winning in the next few years with some new managment, get a GM in here that can actually find talent and sign free agents and better draft picks to develop?

hmmm... 1 meaningless win vs. a few good seasons. i don't know what i'd choose.

sounds like you're the one w/ no heart if you wanna see this team lose year in and year out.

again - I never want to see this team lose, but in all honesty, today's game means crap to this organization. win, and we get a lower draft pick. lose, we get rid of inept coaches, front office, and a higher draft pick. the positives outweigh the negatives.

Michael82

01-01-2006, 02:36 AM

no heart?

as a season ticket holder i use almost all of my vaction time at work (i work weekends) to drive 14 hours to every game... so go **** yourself pal. if that is not devotion I don't know what is, considering half the people in the city of buffalo are too lazy to drive the 10 miles down to OP and attend half the games themselves! hell, you people won't even support the Sabres and they have the 4th best record in the NHL. i really wonder about Buffalo sports fans sometimes and for somebody to question MY loyalty is abusurd!

if this team played to win, why couldn't they beat a team like Oakland that won 4 ****ing games the whole season, but then beats Cincy on their own turf. i'll tell you why... because of incompetant coaching. they can't motivate these players until it no longer matters. this team is full of quitters, and I blame the coaching.

the staff needs to be shown the door, sans Wyche and April. the only way it happens is if the Jets embarrass them today.

would you rather take a meaningless win against a crappy Jets team and keep these idiot coaches and managment with a 6-10 season that gets us nowhere? or take 1 more loss, weed out the morons, and have a chance at actually winning in the next few years with some new managment, get a GM in here that can actually find talent and sign free agents and better draft picks to develop?

hmmm... 1 meaningless win vs. a few good seasons. i don't know what i'd choose.

sounds like you're the one w/ no heart if you wanna see this team lose year in and year out.

again - I never want to see this team lose, but in all honesty, today's game means crap to this organization. win, and we get a lower draft pick. lose, we get rid of inept coaches, front office, and a higher draft pick. the positives outweigh the negatives.
Excellent Post! :bf1:

The_Philster

01-01-2006, 04:32 AM

Seriously, where do you get this from? I have been hearing the same **** about the Bills moving to L.A. but I've never heard anything of significance coming out of the media to back that. All of you are just being way too paranoid at this point. I shouldn't be surprised to see this happen. I remember after the Miami loss how bold and daring everyone would be at the final two home games to show off to Ralph our frustrations. Then when the sitout became intriguing most of us condemned it because we were afraid this would solidfy a move to L.A. What a bunch of garbage. Now one fluke win against Cincy and some of us are having doubts about rebuilding. A pure losers mentality. And no, by saying this this does not make me a phony Bills fan. I'm a fan who always wants to see my team win, and I have enough sense to realize that this team is going nowhere if they do not rebuild. I really hope todays game does not make or break TD and MM's future, but I get this funny feeling that if the Bills go in and win at the Meadowlands that Ralph will start to have some doubts about pushing through into rebuild mode. And thats something I don't think anyone on this board wants to see happen. Cause I know if it does, the bold and daring phase will return to this board once again, but nobody will stick to their word and they'll give themselves a false sense of hope about this team being a playoff team after we draft another WR in the 1st round and then a TE in the 2nd round.
We have one of the lowest ticket prices in the NFL...NY state taxes are awful and there has always been speculation that they'd move. Ralph has been the biggest proponent against franchise free agency so I don't have any real fears they'll move while he's alive. But he's old and while we all want to think there will be pleny of bidders on the team who will keep it in Buffalo, there's still a good chance that a new owner will decide to move the team elsewhere where he can make a bigger buck...like the Colts, the Ravens, Rams, Raiders, Titans (just in the past 25 years). And if the team isn't drawing attendance anymore, what's to stop the new owner from doing just that?

J-Dog

01-01-2006, 04:39 AM

I want the Bills to stomp the Jets tomorrow!! My best friend is a Jets fan and I am tired of the sh-t talking even though we have split the last three seasons. You do play to win the gam, and the draft is a craps shoot anyways. End the season with two straight wins, and look forward to next season when we are healthy and hopefuly have a revamped O-Line.

The_Philster

01-01-2006, 04:42 AM

I want the Bills to stomp the Jets tomorrow!! My best friend is a Jets fan and I am tired of the sh-t talking even though we have split the last three seasons. You do play to win the gam, and the draft is a craps shoot anyways. Thank you...:goodpost:..nice to see someone else remembers that Ryan Leaf was in fact NOT the 2nd best player in the 1998 draft ;)

Historian

01-01-2006, 07:36 AM

I want to see the Bills win 42-0.

Then I want them to clean house.

Dr. Lecter

01-01-2006, 07:47 AM

Thank you Billsology.

The idea that the two happenings are mutually exclusive is stupid. Let the Bills win and then ****-can TD on Tuesday. I really don't see why people want the Bills to lose, unless they want that to happen so they can ***** about it Sunday night. (I still think that is one reason why some were so PO'd after beating the Bengals last week. There was little to ***** about.)

BTW Freeman, if MM goes likely Wyche and April are gone too. A new coach will bring his own assistants. Guys like Krumrie and Blackmon would be gone too. And McNally.

Dr. Lecter

01-01-2006, 07:48 AM

BTW,
If some players tank the game, do we want those players back next year?

mybills

01-01-2006, 07:49 AM

I just want a new GM.
I want a new GM and a BILLS WIN today.

Bill Brasky

01-01-2006, 08:13 AM

I want to see the Bills win 42-0.

Then I want them to clean house.

so apparently you want to have your cake and eat it too.

The_Philster

01-01-2006, 08:18 AM

BTW,
If some players tank the game, do we want those players back next year?I sure as hell don't :down:

so apparently you want to have your cake and eat it too.More like a case where we don't believe those reports that a win will save the jobs of these losers...one win at the end of the season with no meaning for either team? Ralph's been around long enough to know not to take something like that into consideration, IMO

Dr. Lecter

01-01-2006, 08:36 AM

Historian

01-01-2006, 08:46 AM

so apparently you want to have your cake and eat it too.

well...that's what I pay for...

;)

Historian

01-01-2006, 08:49 AM

I think Helmet is right.

I think these guys fates (whatever that may be) were sealed down in Miami.

Perhaps a good showing today saves assistant X or Y, but the big 4: HC, OC, DC, GM were probably decided weeks ago.

If I were the owner, the Raider game would have been it for me as far as the GM was concerned.

Bill Brasky

01-01-2006, 08:55 AM

One other thing Freeman, the last couple of Sabres games have been sold out, so before you froth at the mouth about this are not supporting the Sabres do a little research and get your facts straight.

As for those of us that want the Bills to win also wanting them to lose for several seasons, I really think you should know better than that.
i have done my research toolshed.

buffalo is 20th in the league in attendence last i knew, including the last few "sell outs". selling out the last few games because most of you take 3 months to come around isn't exactly fan loyalty.

i've watched every game they've had on tv down here, the arena looks half empty, even when they say it's a sell out and it sounds exactly the same - dead. i've heard more crowd noise from the 9,000 fans at nassau colliseum.

if you guys were true fans it shouldn't take 3 months of constant winning and a 16-2-2 record over the course of 20 games to bring people to the arena... you should be there from day 1.

as for the bills winning today, i hope they do, that way you can all have something to ***** about next season when all the coaches are still here, we get a mid round draft pick, and we have another double-digit loss season because it made you guys feel good to beat a 3-12 team.

BTW,
If some players tank the game, do we want those players back next year?

yeah, they certainly gave it their all in SD, at home against NE, and take your pick of any of the other 8 loses where they didn't even get off the bus.

FirstDownBills

01-01-2006, 09:22 AM

We have one of the lowest ticket prices in the NFL...NY state taxes are awful and there has always been speculation that they'd move. Ralph has been the biggest proponent against franchise free agency so I don't have any real fears they'll move while he's alive. But he's old and while we all want to think there will be pleny of bidders on the team who will keep it in Buffalo, there's still a good chance that a new owner will decide to move the team elsewhere where he can make a bigger buck...like the Colts, the Ravens, Rams, Raiders, Titans (just in the past 25 years). And if the team isn't drawing attendance anymore, what's to stop the new owner from doing just that?

The Saints are closer to moving to L.A than Buffalo. And what isn't drawing attendance anymore? Didn't every game get sold out this year? And I'm starting to have serious doubts that if TD and MM were to remain on ship after this season that those ticket sales really wouldn't dwindle all that much cause everyone is scared of them moving to L.A.

The_Philster

01-01-2006, 09:27 AM

The Saints are closer to moving to L.A than Buffalo. And what isn't drawing attendance anymore? Didn't every game get sold out this year? And I'm starting to have serious doubts that if TD and MM were to remain on ship after this season that those ticket sales really wouldn't dwindle all that much cause everyone is scared of them moving to L.A.
Take a look around the forums...there has been plenty of talk of people not renewing seasons if TD stays...not just here, either

Bill Brasky

01-01-2006, 09:29 AM

Take a look around the forums...there has been plenty of talk of people not renewing seasons if TD stays...not just here, either

i know i won't renew. i'm not going to fork over my $ to an organization obviously committed to losing.

FirstDownBills

01-01-2006, 09:30 AM

Take a look around the forums...there has been plenty of talk of people not renewing seasons if TD stays...not just here, either

And there was also plenty of talk about sitouts at the Denver game, and even when that got condemned the orange shirt idea got some talk but how many people actually wore orange shirts in the end? Like five? All talk, I don't believe any of it until people actually follow through with their word. I guarantee games will be sold out again next year no matter whos here.

Dr. Lecter

01-01-2006, 09:52 AM

i have done my research toolshed.

buffalo is 20th in the league in attendence last i knew, including the last few "sell outs". selling out the last few games because most of you take 3 months to come around isn't exactly fan loyalty.

i've watched every game they've had on tv down here, the arena looks half empty, even when they say it's a sell out and it sounds exactly the same - dead. i've heard more crowd noise from the 9,000 fans at nassau colliseum.

if you guys were true fans it shouldn't take 3 months of constant winning and a 16-2-2 record over the course of 20 games to bring people to the arena... you should be there from day 1.

as for the bills winning today, i hope they do, that way you can all have something to ***** about next season when all the coaches are still here, we get a mid round draft pick, and we have another double-digit loss season because it made you guys feel good to beat a 3-12 team.

I find it a bit hypocritical that you criticize Buffalo are fans for not going to Sabres games when you are talking about not renewing your Bills tickets and not going to those games. Which way is it? Do true fans go to games or they do not? You can't have it both ways. Don't forget that the Sabres had really sucked for a number of years before this season, teh same coach and GM have been here and the team is still recovering from the previous ownership group screwing the entire city.

Furthermore, Sabres attendance is traditionally low until the end of football season. And, as for the crowd, the game si have been too they have sounded fine.

I wonder what people will ***** about when/if the Bills win and TD is still fired this week? Or if you will ***** if they lose today?

And the draft pick thing has been argued to death. The difference between #7 and #14 is generally pretty insignificant.

Dr. Lecter

01-01-2006, 09:53 AM

i know i won't renew. i'm not going to fork over my $ to an organization obviously committed to losing.

So it is OK for you not to go to Bills game, but not OK for Buffalo area fans to not go to Sabres games?

The_Philster

01-01-2006, 10:01 AM

And the draft pick thing has been argued to death. The difference between #7 and #14 is generally pretty insignificant.Beyond insignificant, IMO...unless someone actually thinks Ryan Leaf was the 2nd best player in the 98 draft :snicker2:

Historian

01-01-2006, 10:51 AM

I find it a bit hypocritical that you criticize Buffalo are fans for not going to Sabres games when you are talking about not renewing your Bills tickets and not going to those games. Which way is it? Do true fans go to games or they do not?

I going to defend Freeman here, and that doesn't mean I'm taking sides, or think one of you is right or wrong.

But I will say this...

Freeman comes a long way to see games in person. (New York I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) As does Jan Reimers, Op and Dora, Pride, Dozer, and Helmet. (My apologies to anyone I've forgotten.)

My guess is their frustration with this team is more than ours. We can go to a game or not. It's a 15 minute ride out to the Ralph, and we can get home to see most of the 4:00 game if we were so inclined.

Not so with the above mentioned folks. And I understand the frustration. They go above and beyond to support their team, traveling vast distances to support them in person. Not just for one game, but as season ticket holders! And my guess is that they're feeling a little shortchanged in the process. There's no quid pro quo coming from 1BD, when you see the same mistakes, over and over, and no one being held accountable for them.

So I try not to judge when somebody says, "I'm through!"

It would be a lot easier for the above mentioned folks to simply throw up a dish and watch from the comfort of their sofas. Especially with the price of gas nowadays.

But what those people also have to understand is that, if they don't renew...there's always some schnook ready and waiting in line to take their seats. It's simply the nature of the beast.

Just my two cents.

Dr. Lecter

01-01-2006, 11:01 AM

I understand and do agree with you on the points you made.

But he should not criticize those who stay home from Sabres games when they have been terrible for years when he makes the same choice for the Bills, regardless of distance.

The_Philster

01-01-2006, 11:02 AM

Bills games are simply easier to go to...8 home games a year as opposed to 41....Sunday afternoons as opposed to weekday evenings

BAM

01-01-2006, 11:55 AM

I want to see the Bills win 42-0.

Then I want them to clean house.

There you go.

I can't believe some of these heartless bastards.

Meathead

01-01-2006, 12:14 PM

i love the bills

and i couldnt care less whether they win this game or not

Michael82

01-01-2006, 12:25 PM

I want to see the Bills win 42-0.

Then I want them to clean house.
You're insane if you think that a 42-0 win wouldn't make Ralph get all excited about the team and choose to keep Tom Donahoe and Mike Mularkey.

The problem is, you can't have both, you really have to have one or the other. I really think that Ralph is not sure yet what he wants to do and is going to use the final two games to help him.

The_Philster

01-01-2006, 12:26 PM

:coocoo:

Historian

01-01-2006, 12:45 PM

The only time Ralph makes snap decisions, is in anger. You're hoping that he gets embarrassed enough to do that again. I'm saying he won't make that same mistake with two GMs in a row.

Most of what he does is pretty well thought out. (Whether it's fan friendly or not)

And I believe he's made a decision on these people weeks ago.

So call me insane.

Meathead

01-01-2006, 03:16 PM

ok youre insane

Dr. Lecter

01-01-2006, 03:18 PM

I second that notion.

Nuttier than a fruitcake.

Michael82

01-01-2006, 03:54 PM

I second that notion.

Nuttier than a fruitcake.
Don't forget. He thinks Hillary is hot. :lmao:

FirstDownBills

01-01-2006, 03:58 PM

I know for a fact that if TD and MM are still here next year that I will not travel for 6 hours to a game until they are gone. I will just watch the games from the comfort of my own home.

Bill Brasky

01-01-2006, 09:26 PM

I going to defend Freeman here, and that doesn't mean I'm taking sides, or think one of you is right or wrong.

But I will say this...

Freeman comes a long way to see games in person. (New York I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) As does Jan Reimers, Op and Dora, Pride, Dozer, and Helmet. (My apologies to anyone I've forgotten.)

My guess is their frustration with this team is more than ours. We can go to a game or not. It's a 15 minute ride out to the Ralph, and we can get home to see most of the 4:00 game if we were so inclined.

Not so with the above mentioned folks. And I understand the frustration. They go above and beyond to support their team, traveling vast distances to support them in person. Not just for one game, but as season ticket holders! And my guess is that they're feeling a little shortchanged in the process. There's no quid pro quo coming from 1BD, when you see the same mistakes, over and over, and no one being held accountable for them.

So I try not to judge when somebody says, "I'm through!"

It would be a lot easier for the above mentioned folks to simply throw up a dish and watch from the comfort of their sofas. Especially with the price of gas nowadays.

But what those people also have to understand is that, if they don't renew...there's always some schnook ready and waiting in line to take their seats. It's simply the nature of the beast.

Just my two cents.

wierd, a person on the board that can actually see the viewpoint of others!, thank you billsology for actually having a brain unlike some of you here.

i want to keep my tickets, but in all honesty, keeping these guys in the FO basically tells me this team doesn't give a **** about it's fans or winning so why should i keep putting off repaying my student loan so I can buy season tickets. i spent almost 500$ to go to the opener, and most of the other games cost around 250-300... do the math. that's 2500$ i dump into this team and for what? to be told by the GM I can't bring in noisemakers, signs... or that he is embarrassed to be part of the city of buffalo and that we as fans, who pay this organization's salary, are jerks? not to mention the pathetic product being put on the field year in and year out.

i mean, come on guys, you think this type of crap would fly in a place like NY or Dallas? the minute they start losing or acting like this they can the guys responsible. how do you think they keep so many people in the seats - by winning and not allowing ineptness to prosper! sadly, that's what's happened in buffalo because we've allowed TD to hang around for 5 years without putting up a hissy fit. buffalo fans are pretty level headed and for it to come to this I think speaks volumes beacuse in a major market heads would have spun after TD's 3rd season.

i think the fans, who pay the salaries of these guys, have every right to be pissed and complain. i've stood by this team win or lose, but it gets to a point where you get so sick of losing, the only way to possibly trigger a change is by hurting them in thier wallets. it's the only way to get through to corporations because look at what *****ing has done for 5 years - it got us Mike Mularkey - a downgrade from Greg Williams.

Lecter, you can call me a bad fan or whatever else, but until you make the time and effort that some of us do on this board to make it to 1 game don't try and put us down.

the sabers sucked for the 2 seasons before the lockout, but they have made the playoffs 24 times in 35 seasons, how exactly does that constitute "sucking for a while"... the bills on the other hand, negating the last 2 years of the 80s and through most of the 90's, have sucked forever... and I still support both.

i think its terrible that people only come around to the sabres when they're good, cuz i've been by them during the good and the bad, and i think people living within a 20 mile radius of the arena have no excuse to attend the majority of the games - win or lose.

it's called hometown pride... not hometown jump on the bandwagon and then burn it when it isn't successful.

Dr. Lecter

01-01-2006, 10:14 PM

freeman, I think you are missing my point.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Fans can be good and never go to a game. For some people that is not what they like. I do not look at real fans having to go to games whether it be for the Bills, Sabres, UB or any other are sports team. And, as I already said, I very much respect those that travel a distance to do so. Fellow ticket holders in my group come from NYC. Obviously they do more than me driving 30-45 minutes to go a game. However, I really am not into this “I drive further or go to more games than you do so I am a better fan” stuff. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The fact is no Buffalo Sports team has been in the playoffs for 5 years (The Sabres have struggled for more than 2). Do the Sabres have a higher percentage of season's in the playoffs? Yes. But recall what the NHL was in the early 80's - 21 teams and only 5 missed the playoffs, so the comparison is not a fair one. And there are harder, deeper feelings from people in the area from the Rigas mess. Is it Galisano’s fault? Not all. But it exists. And a league and its players calling off a season out of greed does not sit well with community of blue collar people. The lack of support for the Sabres so far this season is for many deep, complex reasons. <o:p></o:p>
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And I too have been to Sabres and Bills games, both good and bad. I remember being in Rich Stadium when the Bills were 2-14. And going to Sabres games while they were fighting for 10th place in the East. <o:p></o:p>
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But if you can't see how one could take your support of people not going to Bills games while offering criticism of people not going to Sabres as being conflicting, I apologize because I did not make myself clear. <o:p></o:p>
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And I never, never said people don't have the right or should not even complain. They should. And TD should be gone. (Even though he called one caller on a talk show a jerk – not all fans. That story was distorted.)<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Where I draw the line are fans saying they are rooting for the Bills to lose. Much like a child, one should want to team to win at all times. Losing is never good. And like Billsology said, we should have wanted this team to win followed by the appropriate changes. Expecting all we can out the team is not too much to ask. <o:p></o:p>
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I don’t think you are bad fan. Maybe misguided for wanting the team to lose. But not bad. <o:p></o:p>
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