Sullivan nails it in this article

[ICE74129]

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060103/1062139.asp?tbd1062139.asp

Here is what we KNOW, Kelly holcomb is not a starter in this league. He can 'compete' all he wants, but if he is our starter next year, we are in deep crap.

If they feel JP Can't get it done, I agree....Trade him but I say do it now. Do it THIS offseason and pick up a young vet on the rise and let him take over. Holcomb is a career backup. He has proven he can't get it done on a consistant basis his entire career. 3-4 in games started and finished this year. I would expect more from a 10 year vet.

Trade for a guy like Matt Schaub that is on the rise, looked good in games and isn't willing to sit behind friggin Vick. Hell TD should have just paid Billy Volak the money he wanted when he came in to interview last year. At least that guy can throw the damn ball over 30 yards :rage:


Bottom line is this, if JP isn't starting next year, then someone else NOT ON THIS ROSTER CURRENTLY needs to be.

[HHURRICANE]

Best article on how Stupid the Bills are. I have been saying this since before the first game. If MM and his group of Vets hadn't been such puss's than we would have had a full season to evaluate JP. Now we are back to square one.

Sullivan: "Still, it didn't justify pulling the plug on J.P. Losman after four weeks and setting back Losman's development. The season could have been judged a success if Losman had gotten a full season under his belt as a starter. Instead, the Bills found out their roster wasn't nearly as good as advertised - and stunted Losman's growth in the process."

[ICE74129]

Best article on how Stupid the Bills are. I have been saying this since before the first game. If MM and his group of Vets hadn't been such puss's than we would have had a full season to evaluate JP. Now we are back to square one.

Sullivan: "Still, it didn't justify pulling the plug on J.P. Losman after four weeks and setting back Losman's development. The season could have been judged a success if Losman had gotten a full season under his belt as a starter. Instead, the Bills found out their roster wasn't nearly as good as advertised - and stunted Losman's growth in the process."

Exactly. See who in that locker room has the right to decide if JP is 'ready' or not? Of course he wasn't ready! Any vet with any common sense knows a first year QB isn't ready. Esp when he has no help.

Like I said in another post, Look at Kyle orton. One poster said 'but he looked calmer etc' Well sure he did. he had FAITH in the veterans around him. Not a one of them gave less than 100% and every one of them busted their butts. He had faith in his OL and his WR's. When you have that, you have confidence which breeds success!

Had the Defense, OL, WR's etc held up their end of things, JP would have been ok. They didn't. No one here or on that team can say they did. We all saw the games! We heard the *****ing and whining and then saw the benching. Then the suspension of moulds etc.

What really needs to be done is this, Say it is Losmans team next year. If any vet has an issue tell him 'hey, give 100%, STFU or you will be fined and suspended. Do your damn job and the kid will be ok'. But MM can't do that now. He has lost all power in that locker room. He should have done this in a meeting after the week 4 loss.

Dedicate the 06 season to finding out if losman has it, or find someone outside the org to build the team around. It needs to be a young, up and coming vet. I would have no issues at all with Matt Schaub, provided we put a line worth a crap to protect him!

[McBFLO]

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060103/1062139.asp?tbd1062139.asp

Bottom line is this, if JP isn't starting next year, then someone else NOT ON THIS ROSTER CURRENTLY needs to be.

I don't want Holcomb back at all, backup, starter, 3rd stringer... It'll turn into a distraction that this franchise obviously doesn't need!

[HHURRICANE]

Like I said in another post, Look at Kyle orton. One poster said 'but he looked calmer etc' Well sure he did. he had FAITH in the veterans around him. Not a one of them gave less than 100% and every one of them busted their butts. He had faith in his OL and his WR's. When you have that, you have confidence which breeds success!

Had the Defense, OL, WR's etc held up their end of things, JP would have been ok. They didn't. No one here or on that team can say they did. We all saw the games! We heard the *****ing and whining and then saw the benching. Then the suspension of moulds etc.


Somebody gets it!!:posrep:

[lordofgun]

This was probably the most frustrating season I've ever endured as a Bills fan. And it wasn't because we were losing.

[lordofgun]

I don't want Holcomb back at all, backup, starter, 3rd stringer... It'll turn into a distraction that this franchise obviously doesn't need!
Same here! That's the problem...after 10 years, he still doesnt realize he's not starter material, so he's always going to create a QB controversy...especially when you're trying to groom a young QB and the fans and "veterans" on the team are so impatient.

[ICE74129]

Same here! That's the problem...after 10 years, he still doesnt realize he's not starter material, so he's always going to create a QB controversy...especially when you're trying to groom a young QB and the fans and "veterans" on the team are so impatient.

EXACTLY! Thank you LOG! He will never get it out of his head he isn't starter material. He never has been and never will be. Personally if I am MM I tell ralph one of the moves I want to make is cutting Holcomb. That locker room MUST Understand it has a job to do no matter WHO is at QB. JP deserves a fair and clean shot at this. Not veterans screwing him over and some wannabe doing his locker room lawyer act to get JP's job hanging around either

[Patrick76777]

I would have liked to have seen JP get more time but the 2 games he played before he got benched were TERRIBLE! At the time I agreed with the benching because I didn't think it was good for him to stay in there and get dominated!

17-38 for 150 yards and 2 picks! And thats 2 games!!!!!!!

Average QB play gets us wins in both of those game! Wins over Atlanta and NO puts us at 3-1 with winable games against the Jets and Miami coming up at home. We could have started 5-1!!!!!!!!! Which would have changed the whole season.

And that's why the coaches decided to do it. Those losses killed em! And JP was getting worse in every game! He was very average against Houston and got worse each week until he looked like garbage against NO. Miami would have ate him up!

[LtBillsFan66]

I agree Pat. I actually think keeping him in could have done worse for his confidence. He was getting embarrassed out there. I'm comfortable now. JP now knows what he needs to do and learn this offseason.

[ICE74129]

I would have liked to have seen JP get more time but the 2 games he played before he got benched were TERRIBLE! At the time I agreed with the benching because I didn't think it was good for him to stay in there and get dominated!

17-38 for 150 yards and 2 picks! And thats 2 games!!!!!!!

Average QB play gets us wins in both of those game! Wins over Atlanta and NO puts us at 3-1 with winable games against the Jets and Miami coming up at home. We could have started 5-1!!!!!!!!! Which would have changed the whole season.

And that's why the coaches decided to do it. Those losses killed em! And JP was getting worse in every game! He was very average against Houston and got worse each week until he looked like garbage against NO. Miami would have ate him up!

Again NO! Average QB play doesn't win us those games. This defense has done very little this year. Playcalling and crap defense cost JP his 3rd win this year in Miami. JP did fine against Carolina. New England? The whole team sucked. And name for me any VETERAN QB Bill Billacheck hasn't torn to shreads at least a few times in his career? And you expected JP to just walk out and beat Billecheck? Please....

[ICE74129]

I agree Pat. I actually think keeping him in could have done worse for his confidence. He was getting embarrassed out there. I'm comfortable now. JP now knows what he needs to do and learn this offseason.

What JP NEEDS is the rest of the team to finally do thier jobs. He NEEDS an NFL Caliber OL in front of him and someone besides forest Gump calling the plays.

[LtBillsFan66]

I don't disagree with that Ice.

[lordofgun]

I don't disagree with that Ice.
So you agree then.

[LtBillsFan66]

So you agree then.
Sort of.

[lordofgun]

Sort of.
Ah ha!

[LtBillsFan66]

Ah ha!
Whatever.

[dannyek71]

Compare JPs 2005 stats to Eli Mannings 2004 stats. Why was Eli known to be the next great thing, but JP is a 'bust'?


Jps stats
<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg1 vAlign=top><TH>Year</TH><TH>Team</TH><TH>G</TH><TH>GS</TH><TH>Att</TH><TH>Comp</TH><TH>Pct</TH><TH>Yards</TH><TH>YPA</TH><TH>Lg</TH><TH>TD</TH><TH>Int</TH><TH>Tkld</TH><TH>20+</TH><TH>40+</TH><TH>Rate</TH></TR><TR class=bg2><TD>2004</TD><TD>Buffalo Bills</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>5</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>60.0</TD><TD>32</TD><TD>6.40</TD><TD>17</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>1</TD><TD>1/0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>39.2</TD></TR><TR class=bg3><TD>2005</TD><TD>Buffalo Bills</TD><TD>9</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>228</TD><TD>113</TD><TD>49.6</TD><TD>1340</TD><TD>5.88</TD><TD>58</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>26/197</TD><TD>15</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>64.9</TD></TR><TR class=bg4><TD>TOTAL</TD><TD></TD><TD>13</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>233</TD><TD>116</TD><TD>49.8</TD><TD>1372</TD><TD>5.89</TD><TD>58</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>9</TD><TD>27/197</TD><TD>15</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>63.5</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Eli's stats
<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg0 vAlign=top><TD>PASSING</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=bg1 vAlign=top><TH>Year</TH><TH>Team</TH><TH>G</TH><TH>GS</TH><TH>Att</TH><TH>Comp</TH><TH>Pct</TH><TH>Yards</TH><TH>YPA</TH><TH>Lg</TH><TH>TD</TH><TH>Int</TH><TH>Tkld</TH><TH>20+</TH><TH>40+</TH><TH>Rate</TH></TR><TR class=bg2><TD>2004</TD><TD>New York Giants</TD><TD>9</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>197</TD><TD>95</TD><TD>48.2</TD><TD>1043</TD><TD>5.29</TD><TD>52</TD><TD>6</TD><TD>9</TD><TD>13/83</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>55.4</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[ICE74129]

Compare JPs 2005 stats to Eli Mannings 2004 stats. Why was Eli known to be the next great thing, but JP is a 'bust'?


Jps stats
<table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="bg1" valign="top"><th>Year</th><th>Team</th><th>G</th><th>GS</th><th>Att</th><th>Comp</th><th>Pct</th><th>Yards</th><th>YPA</th><th>Lg</th><th>TD</th><th>Int</th><th>Tkld</th><th>20+</th><th>40+</th><th>Rate</th></tr><tr class="bg2"><td>2004</td><td>Buffalo Bills</td><td>4</td><td>0</td><td>5</td><td>3</td><td>60.0</td><td>32</td><td>6.40</td><td>17</td><td>0</td><td>1</td><td>1/0</td><td>0</td><td>0</td><td>39.2</td></tr><tr class="bg3"><td>2005</td><td>Buffalo Bills</td><td>9</td><td>8</td><td>228</td><td>113</td><td>49.6</td><td>1340</td><td>5.88</td><td>58</td><td>8</td><td>8</td><td>26/197</td><td>15</td><td>6</td><td>64.9</td></tr><tr class="bg4"><td>TOTAL</td><td>
</td><td>13</td><td>8</td><td>233</td><td>116</td><td>49.8</td><td>1372</td><td>5.89</td><td>58</td><td>8</td><td>9</td><td>27/197</td><td>15</td><td>6</td><td>63.5</td></tr></tbody></table>


Eli's stats
<table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="bg0" valign="top"><td>PASSING</td></tr></tbody></table>
<table border="0" cellpadding="1" cellspacing="1" width="100%"><tbody><tr class="bg1" valign="top"><th>Year</th><th>Team</th><th>G</th><th>GS</th><th>Att</th><th>Comp</th><th>Pct</th><th>Yards</th><th>YPA</th><th>Lg</th><th>TD</th><th>Int</th><th>Tkld</th><th>20+</th><th>40+</th><th>Rate</th></tr><tr class="bg2"><td>2004</td><td>New York Giants</td><td>9</td><td>7</td><td>197</td><td>95</td><td>48.2</td><td>1043</td><td>5.29</td><td>52</td><td>6</td><td>9</td><td>13/83</td><td>11</td><td>4</td><td>55.4</td></tr></tbody></table>


THANK YOU! Leave it up to these guys and Joe Montana of the 80's would have been run out of town. Give the kid a damn line, let him have 16 games, Bring in vets that will give 100% regardless and he will be FINE!

[LtBillsFan66]

Ok. I have had ENOUGH of the Eli comparison. I live in NYG and NYJ territory. I have the priviledge (sarcasm) to see their games televised.

ELI IS NOT GOOD THIS YEAR!

The Giants are good because of Tiki!

We better pray to God that JP is a lot better next year than Eli was this year.

[HHURRICANE]

Ok. I have had ENOUGH of the Eli comparison. I live in NYG and NYJ territory. I have the priviledge (sarcasm) to see their games televised.

ELI IS NOT GOOD THIS YEAR!

The Giants are good because of Tiki!

We better pray to God that JP is a lot better next year than Eli was this year.

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysprow2 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Eli Manning played 16 games with a 75.9 QB Rating, completed 53% of his passes for 3,765 yards and 24 TD's and 17 ints. I'll take his sucky numbers anyday!!!

[Novacane]

Jim Kelly on WGR55 yesterday said he really does not like the system the Bills run(could tell he wanted to say HATES but did not want to be to harsh) and felt JP did not have a chance to succeed in it.

[ICE74129]

Jim Kelly on WGR55 yesterday said he really does not like the system the Bills run(could tell he wanted to say HATES but did not want to be to harsh) and felt JP did not have a chance to succeed in it.

Oh he ripped it to shreads earlier this year. He is right too. There is no system. MM can't make up his mind what the hell he wants to do. Further proof he needs to go.

[dannyek71]

It was Eli's 2nd year and he has his brothers/fathers reputation to live up to. Eli will someday be a good NFL quarterback. JP may also be one, but he needs time.

[Mr. Cynical]

What a GREAT article. :10:

First this....

"You don't blow up a team because of a couple of plays here or there," Fletcher said.
A couple of plays away? Sure, and Paris Hilton is a couple of IQ points away from Einstein. The Bills were 28th in the NFL in total offense, 30th in red-zone offense, 29th in total defense, 31st against the run, dead last in both third-down and red-zone defensive efficiency. They were outscored by 96 points - 93 in second halves. They were entirely worthy of their 5-11 record.



Then this...


Buffalo's next general manager has to do what's best for the franchise, not what's best for an embattled coach or a group of veterans. If he decides Losman isn't an NFL quarterback - after just eight starts - he should cut him and find another young QB to groom for the future. Otherwise, the new GM should make a commitment to Losman and urge his coaching staff to do the same.

Give Holcomb a chance to compete for the job, but make it clear that it's Losman's job to lose. Holcomb isn't the answer. Stop pretending you're a couple of plays away from the playoffs and admit you're a franchise in decline.
Be honest and stop the denial, then things might actually start to turn around.


This is EXACTLY the problem. Nothing against Flecth but his warped perspective is one of the biggest examples of all the Kool Aid being passed around by the front office. Sullivan definitely nailed it.

[Patrick76777]

Again NO! Average QB play doesn't win us those games. This defense has done very little this year. Playcalling and crap defense cost JP his 3rd win this year in Miami. JP did fine against Carolina. New England? The whole team sucked. And name for me any VETERAN QB Bill Billacheck hasn't torn to shreads at least a few times in his career? And you expected JP to just walk out and beat Billecheck? Please....
Did you fail reading comprehension?


Where did I say anything about Miami, New England, Bill Belichek?


I said that he was getting worse each game and in the Atl and N.O. game he got killed. At the time, I thought the benching was a good choice because JP was regressing. I think long term damage could have been done by leaving him out there to get his teeth kicked in every week.

[Mitchy moo]

http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060103/1062139.asp?tbd1062139.asp

Here is what we KNOW, Kelly holcomb is not a starter in this league. He can 'compete' all he wants, but if he is our starter next year, we are in deep crap.

If they feel JP Can't get it done, I agree....Trade him but I say do it now. Do it THIS offseason and pick up a young vet on the rise and let him take over. Holcomb is a career backup. He has proven he can't get it done on a consistant basis his entire career. 3-4 in games started and finished this year. I would expect more from a 10 year vet.

Trade for a guy like Matt Schaub that is on the rise, looked good in games and isn't willing to sit behind friggin Vick. Hell TD should have just paid Billy Volak the money he wanted when he came in to interview last year. At least that guy can throw the damn ball over 30 yards :rage:


Bottom line is this, if JP isn't starting next year, then someone else NOT ON THIS ROSTER CURRENTLY needs to be.

Hummm,

I brought this up after watching him play on 10-10-2005,

http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=82658&highlight=schaub

Seems like a good idea.

[LtBillsFan66]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR class=ysprow2 align=right height=16><TD class=yspscores align=left></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD> </TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD class=yspscores></TD><TD> </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Eli Manning played 16 games with a 75.9 QB Rating, completed 53% of his passes for 3,765 yards and 24 TD's and 17 ints. I'll take his sucky numbers anyday!!!
Point taken. People act like he's a god though. He's average.

[Bill Brasky]

Ok. I have had ENOUGH of the Eli comparison. I live in NYG and NYJ territory. I have the priviledge (sarcasm) to see their games televised.

ELI IS NOT GOOD THIS YEAR!

The Giants are good because of Tiki!

We better pray to God that JP is a lot better next year than Eli was this year.
You are wasting your time with a post like this because I can't begin to count how many times I've said the same exact thing.

You can't get through to some people on this board, especially the ones who know only what guys like Stuart Scott tell them.

Like Arnold says "I have no respect for those who have no respect fo logic!"

[HHURRICANE]

Point taken. People act like he's a god though. He's average.

I agree but he was good enough to get them into the playoffs. If that's what a year under your belt buys you than we should have let JP play it out.

[LtBillsFan66]

You are wasting your time with a post like this because I can't begin to count how many times I've said the same exact thing.

You can't get through to some people on this board, especially the ones who know only what guys like Stuart Scott tell them.

Like Arnold says "I have no respect for those who have no respect fo logic!"
Holcomb is ranked better than Eli.

[LtBillsFan66]

I agree but he was good enough to get them into the playoffs. If that's what a year under your belt buys you than we should have let JP play it out.
Tiki got them in. Not Eli's arm.

[pleasesavedrew]

Jerry Sullivan is an absoulute moron, by far the worst writer on the football staff. He is the most nebative person ive ever read. He never says one positive thing, its shocking that they'll publsih such BS. He never supports the Buffalo QB, alwayscalling for someone else, and the few times this team has actually done sumthing good these past 5 years, he brings you right back down, never letting a good thnig stick. And to top it off, hes never right in his critiziams.

[HHURRICANE]

Tiki got them in. Not Eli's arm.

I never said that Eli was the reason. All I'm saying is that he played consistantly enough to get them there. Tiki was awesome this year and deserves alot of the credit along with some great blocking in front of him!

[Historian]

This was probably the most frustrating season I've ever endured as a Bills fan. And it wasn't because we were losing.

Amen to that, Log.

[HHURRICANE]

Jerry Sullivan is an absoulute moron, by far the worst writer on the football staff. He is the most nebative person ive ever read. He never says one positive thing, its shocking that they'll publsih such BS. He never supports the Buffalo QB, alwayscalling for someone else, and the few times this team has actually done sumthing good these past 5 years, he brings you right back down, never letting a good thnig stick. And to top it off, hes never right in his critiziams.

Now that you got that off your chest what part of his article do you disagree with?! I actually thought it was right on.:wtf: