Why are Buffalo fans so freakin negative?

[Novacane]

I really can't believe how many people are ready to write off the season based on last nights game! I am convinced if our first team played the Bengals first team all night we would have blown them out! In our three times with the ball we moved at will!
There were more positives last night than there were negatives IMO. Sure we have to establish a running game if we are going to be successful. But it was 3 FREAKIN SERIES that our O was out there! If they would have stayed out there and kept burning them with the pass the Bengals would have had to ajust and then the running game would have opened up. I don't care if you have all pro bowlers on your line. WHen a D is playing to stop the run you take what they are giving you!

I am not one of these a$$kissers that says you must support your team and praise them no matter what but for goodness sake, some people will gripe if we win every game! Give me a break! :angry: :drinker:

[HenryRules]

I agree completely.

[The_Philster]

I know what you mean. We have guy in my section we call the "***** Guy." He used to complain we weren't running the ball enough when we were throwing TD strikes and complain about the lack of a passing game when we were running all over the opposition. My point is, he hardly complained all night long last night.

[WG]

Let's see what the Minnesota game brings us... ;)

Better to "gripe" now and hope that someone over at 1BD reads this and decides to look into why Henry can't seem to run the ball consistently and make the appropriate adjustments before game 1. Otherwise, if the coaches know so much, then how come Henry can't seem to run except vs. only the worst couple of rush Ds in the league?

I know some of you haven't spent much time watching Drew other than when he's played us, but if you had, then you'd know that he isn't exactly at his best, which is to be expected to a degree w/ all QBs, when he has no running game to compliment. IMO, he's worse than most under pressure. He has no mobility and makes critical errors under those circumstances.

One opening drive against a team that was 6-10 last year, when they had no idea what to expect, is also not enough to make me wager a dime on the notion that somehow as a result we'll be 12-4 this year w/ the league's #4 ranked O.

Quite frankly, other than that opening drive, IMO we weren't impressive at all. STs was good.

I think a lot of this excitement is still here due to the new faces and the notion that we're still in preseason.

[Novacane]

It is funny in a way Philster. I sit in sec 337 but we moved down to the scoreboard endzone for the second half. This guy in front of us was having a coranary watching the bengals run all over the third stringers. He was *****ing about "they suck", " why can't they stop the run" etc............. It was amusing. I tried telling him relax, most of these guys will be working at burger king in 3 weeks but it did not help.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
Let's see what the Minnesota game brings us... ;)

Better to "gripe" now and hope that someone over at 1BD reads this and decides to look into why Henry can't seem to run the ball consistently and make the appropriate adjustments before game



Come on now Wys.........do you really think OBD has to read it here to work on the run game? I don't think GW is the best coach but I think he is sharp enough to study the film and work on improving the running game without us telling him he needs to!

As for Bledsoe....he was very good IMO. One bad throw which was underthrown or it would have been a TD. Not a misread of coverage as you said in another thread! Admit it...........unless he plays a perfect game you will bash him. You just don't like him which is your perogative.:)

[WG]

B2R46,

I don't think I'm bashing Drew at all. I am downplaying a first drive of the very first preseason game vs. a secondary featuring 2 no names, a rookie, and Burris, that many seem to be using as a justification as to why we're now destined to win the division.

Honestly, if you remove that first drive, are you impressed by the rest of the game? I'm not. The second TD came as a result of Cincy having been set up at their own 10 by an INT and giving us a very short field. W/ our D, I'm surely not counting on that to happen very often. Certainly not against most of the teams that we face who have RBs destined to be amongst the top RBs in the league and most of which will challenge for the NFL rushing title this year.

If GW is so astute in 'fixing' our rushing game, then why is he trying to dish Bryson when we don't even know if Henry's the guy. All that is is hope based on potential and expectations. Gee, it's not like we've seen that turn out opposite than expected in the NFL for any given team before.

Henry needs to show something, and if GW isn't careful, and waits until the season opener to establish whether or not Henry's the man, he could very well be faced w/ opening 1-4 or 0-5.

I saw more to indicate that we'd be in trouble vs. the Jets yesterday than I did to demonstrate to me that we'd beat them. W/ yesterday's team on the field, yes, even the starting D, I would fully expect Martin to have 200 yards rushing and 2+ TDs while allowing the Jets to completely dominate ToP and the clock and keep our D on the field way too long. I also didn't see enough to get me all hooped up that Henry would counter w/ a 140 yard game of his own on more than 4 ypc.

I'm not gonna put all my credence in one drive clearly set up to give the O some confidence and to remove the butterflies from Drew. Great move BTW, but our next move, given that GW is apparently so shrewd, would be to pound the running game next week until Henry has 4.0+ ypc. He plays the entire game behind whatever OL we want until he does that. If he can't do that in any of our preseason games featuring last year's 30th, 25th, and 23rd ranked rushing Ds, then I would politely suggest to GW that perhaps Bryson be given chance or some other arrangements be made.

;)

[Dozerdog]

Ahhh--

When we started this site exactly 4 weeks ago, I was becoming a bit nervous. Not much football to report in July, and everyone was posting threads on their favorite music, playing games, bla.. blah.. blah..

Now we get to brass tacks. One game and everyone has kicked into "Season Mode". We have our eternal optomists, those doggone pessimists, and every expert on how to fix the team tomorrow in between. I Love it!!

Keep it coming guys and gals... 5 more months of it on tap! :up:

[WG]

:D

[WG]

And people were worried about the "real Wys"...

LOL

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
B2R46,



Honestly, if you remove that first drive, are you impressed by the rest of the game?


;)

I was impressed by the first team offense. WHo cares if they had a short field for the second TD. Last year we would have had 2 imcompletions, a sack and a punt with that short field! A sign of a good team is they take advantage of the short field! Not saying we will win the division but I see improvement.
Who cares about the rest of the game! If those guys end up playing we are in trouble anyway so lets pray we stay healthy this season.

[WG]

Well, OK then. I don't know what to say if 7 carries for 11 yards impresses you. It has me dearly worried!

On that second drive, Drew was sacked after a 1 yard run by Henry leaving 3rd and 11. It was only due to Drew's passing that we managed to score. Again, look at the secondary. I don't know why everyone thinks Cincy has a good secondary. Sure, they had the 12th ranked pass D last year yardage wise. But they only played 5 games vs. teams in the top 20 passing Os, and they were Detroit, T.B., Buffalo, Tennessee (2). I mean check me if I'm wrong, but not one of those teams was considered a passing powerhouse last year and those were the best passing teams that Cincy faced.

I think yesterday was overrated and everyone jumping to rash conclusions that b/c we lit up Cincy for two drives, one short one, that we're somehow now poised to do great things.

There's no apparent concern over our inability to run at all against Cincy w/ our first unit on the field. It's all excuses about who's playing what position on the OL. Teague for example; some of the same folks talking about how great he was b/c he could "play any position" and has in the past, now he's criticized for playing poorly and given the excuse that he's not played C this year yet. So which one's it gonna be? We can make excuses to be blue in the face. But I'm tellin' ya, I don't care who's playing OL, they had better be able to block and open some holes for Henry.

Meanwhile, Henry has his own thing to prove. If he's here under the impression that he's a shoe-in as starter, then GW needs to communicate a few things to him. He didn't play nearly well enough at any point so far during his short NFL career to indicate that he's anything more than an RB w/ tremendous promise trying to win a starting job. Yesterday did very little to dispel that, IMO.

He had better learn to take advantage of any hole that the OL generates and to even make more out of less at other times when counted on. No one seems to get the notion that Drew's in a world of hurt if we can't find an, A. consistent and B. productive running game.

We will be down late in games. You can count on that given the schedule we face w/ the RBs attached to those teams and those teams' proven rushing effectiveness. So Drew will be relied on enough. Hopefully we won't be down by that much late.

Me, I'd quite prefer if we weren't down! If we were up by 20 points going into the 4th Q ala Spurrier's philosophy. That is only gonna happen if we have a top 10 rushing game. Right now, we've not shown that we're any better than last year's 22nd ranked rushing team. We're not gonna be an offensive powerhouse w/ a 22nd ranked rushing O.

[justasportsfan]

That's why we keep Bryson in the mix. I think we should see what Bryson can do with the first unit .

It was clear that what GW wanted to do was put the ball in DB hands. Maybe the next game he may want to run the ball more.

Let's wait and see.

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
[B
I think yesterday was overrated and everyone jumping to rash conclusions that b/c we lit up Cincy for two drives, one short one, that we're somehow now poised to do great things.

[/B]


I don't think anyone is jumping to conclusions that we are going to do great things. I know I am not. I am just pointing out improvement!
I see people pointing to mass destruction of our season because we could not run the ball. If it continues to be a patteren I too will become concerned but not off 1 game.

You are helping to make my point WYs when you say we lit up a bad secondary! Is not it smart to go after a teams weakness? They are strong against the run. Why try to run the ball on a good run defense when their passing D sucks. Go after their weekness expecially if it is your strength which it looks like it will be ours.
I am not ready to say our running game is going to blow off of 1 game which seems to be the point you are making?
I agree with you........if they do poor again next week agains Minny I will become a little more concerned but I think they will be able to run on them so I am not going to get all worked up about it until they play. That is all I am trying to say.
What if we run for 100 yds in the first half next week but the passing game is not sharp? Will you than bash the passing game and ignore that we ran well like you are doing this week?

[shelby]

when was the last time the Bills ever excelled in the preseason?

[Captain gameboy]

Originally posted by Dozerdog
Ahhh--

When we started this site exactly 4 weeks ago, I was becoming a bit nervous. Not much football to report in July, and everyone was posting threads on their favorite music, playing games, bla.. blah.. blah..

Now we get to brass tacks. One game and everyone has kicked into "Season Mode". We have our eternal optomists, those doggone pessimists, and every expert on how to fix the team tomorrow in between. I Love it!!

Keep it coming guys and gals... 5 more months of it on tap! :up:
Couldn't agree more Doze. We got data now.
I was extremely happy with the offensive performance last night. From the opening drive to the post game comments, Bledsoe looked like a reborn athlete. I had a bit of doubt about him because I thought he lacked a "swagger" or dynamic quality that Kelley had. I've always thought he had one of the best arms in the NFL. I am getting the feeling that he and Gilbride are kindred spririts. Guys with flashes of brilliance, but a few failures, and both probably on the back 9 of their careers with things left to prove. These things toughen people up and make them more resilient and effective. I thik it's a great combination. When Bledsoe was in last night the offense was electric. No down/distance seemed too hard. It was read/snap/ full speed baby. I got three weapons and you can't stop 'em all.
Lets work on the run next week vs the Vikes, work on the D, get the cuts done and start the freakin season.

[lordofgun]

I also was incredibly happy with how the Offense performed last night! I was there, and let me tell you, this offense is EXPLOSIVE!

I don't understand anyone griping about pass protection, lack of rushing, etc.

First of all, we DID NOT gameplan for the Bengals. They are one of the harder defenses to play when you don't gameplan for them. LeBeou (SP?) IS famous for his blitzing schemes, and that's hard to protect against if you haven't looked at much film. That said, I think we DID pass protect fairly well, especially with the starters who didn't play.

Second, it was obvious to me last night that the Bengals D (who is already very good against the run) was keying on stopping the running game. They didn't adjust well at all...not sure if they even tried. You can rest assured that once the first team offense is in there for an entire game, the defense will be forced to adjust and the running will open up.

The last thing to worry about is how the offense will perform this year. I love the wide-open style! I got the feeling that this team could score at any time...AT WILL!!!

[shelby]

woohooo!!! i hope you are right!
:gobills:

[WG]

Indeed!

B2R46,

"What if we run for 100 yds in the first half next week but the passing game is not sharp? Will you than bash the passing game and ignore that we ran well like you are doing this week?"

Bottom line: We really don't need some sort of awesome passing game to be a SB team. We do need a very good running game to do it. I'd be a lot happier each and every week if we ran for 150 and only had as much passing. Especially if we had a respectable D. That would tell me that we're controlling games.

Again, yards do not win games. Points do. Teams can often have 400 plus yards passing and still lose. It's a proven thing, just b/c you can pass does not mean jack.

To your point, if we had had any rushing yards at all w/ the first team, I wouldn't have been so critical. While Cincy may have been ranked fairly well last year, they didn't play any of the high-powered offenses. The best two Os they played all season last year were N.E. and Pittsburgh. So to say they were a tad bit overrated from last year would be accurate. Either way, even if we had played Philly or Miami, I would have expected more out of Henry.

I guess I'm just overly eager to hit the ground running this year. I'm tellin' ya now though, that if we wait until weeks 1 and 2 to work things out, we're gonna be hosed. Weeks 1 and 2 are weeks that we need to emerge from 2-0 if we're to have any chance of doing very well this season!

Cincy is a nothing team and has been for a while. If all we can do is rush for 11 yards on 7 carries against them, look for us to be 5-11 again. IMO there's no excuse for that yesterday in spite of the fact that Drew was lighting things up.

What? We want Henry to be "ironing out his running game" during the last PS game? Not me! Either he didn't play w/ a lot of heart, or he's simply not that good. I am starting to think it's the latter. While many jumped on his bandwagon last year, all he proved last year was that he could beat up on the worst rush Ds in the league but couldn't even play vs. the best or even average ones.

I simply think he, and the running game in general, should be working harder right now.

We'll see. Let's just hope this doesn't haunt us if we are careless about getting it going in the new KG system which apparently puts Bledsoe in the "Savior's seat." I don't think that's wise. If Drew has any weaknesses, it's not playing well when he's the one being counted on to "make it all happen."

I guess that's been the source of a lot of disagreements though. So why should that change now. ;)

I've said it so many times, but I'll say it again. Our offense will go as our running game goes. Not as Drew goes!

[HenryRules]

I disagree with you Wys that Henry didn't show much of anything last year. It's obivous that we judge RB's differently, but here's my take.
Last year's OL was not opening holes at all. If you don't believe me, look at last years tapes and the fact that 4 out of 5 OL positions have new starters this year. That being said, Henry still managed to make positive yards on almost every rushing attempt. IMO, that is the absolute most important thing a RB can do. Again, another disagreement I have with you, IMO the offenses job is to move the ball (and defenses job is to stop the other team from doing so, doing those together without giveaways and you'll win most games). The easiest way for an opposing team to shut down an offense is to stop the RB for negative yards on first down - that simply does not happen to TH. This ability to not get stopped for negative yards is also of great importance in goalline or 4th down situations. I can't remember exactly how we did in those last year, but Henry impressed me enough in his running style on normal plays to have great faith in him in these situations.
Another point, TH showed that he can catch out of the backfield. While not Larry Centers, he did have some pretty good games catching out of the backfield and showed the ability to turn catches into big yards.
Also, unlike other backs on our team, Henry showed in college and throughout high school that he can be an excellent back. At every stage in his football career he has been one of the best running backs. Admittedly, there are many that fail in the NFL that fulfill this qualification, but I can't think of any that have succeeded without fulfilling this qualification.

As a related question, I'm curious as to what importance you place on an OL. You seem to blame almost all sacks on a QB and almost all rushing yardage on the RB's. In my mind, almost all the stats of all the skill players are a direct result of the OL's ability. I can't think of too many teams that have boasted of a top offense without a top line, but I can think of a few without good QB's, good RB's, or good receivers.

[WG]

Funny you say that HR! You know full well that's what the party line was last year and year's prior. Why did RJ get blamed for everything from the team's meal the night before to everything that you say shouldn't reflect on the QB? Just curious. ;)

To your points, then why hasn't Bryson gotten much more of a look? He's managed to do so much more and with much greater regularity considering that he's only had a fraction of the games that Henry's had. Yet, he's performed even more admirably. Why? Did the OL all of s sudden play up just while Bryson was in there? If so, then why? If not, then what does that say about Bryson and Henry? Are we trying to force Henry into the role w/o giving Bryson a fair shot at it? By not giving him the same opportunities to prove himself.

I'm sure someone will jump all over this and start telling us about how he's had every chance to show what he can do. My question would be when? Last year in the 4 games that he had 16, 14, 28, or 12 carries? Or was it in those 3 games that he had more than 12 carries in '00 in which he performed more than admirably averaging over 5 yards per carry while also catching for 109 yards in those games?

Or was it perhaps the other 17 games that he played in over the past two seasons where he only came in in platoon or for a play or two, rarely ever even getting double-digit carries?

Just curious as to why Bryson's been dismissed so?

Meanwhile, being given far more opportunities, Henry's done significantly less w/ them. Why? Are the cards just all falling so that it's just unfair to Henry? Each and every game?

If you can answer that, then I won't be so hard on Henry. As of yet, what has he done? Sure, he had a couple of decent games last year against poor rush D teams, the bottom of the league actually. But so did Bryson, so why are Bryson's performances negated and ignored? We managed to field a world-class OL w/ Bryson in there, but then they all got hurt while Henry was in?

I'm curious as to what you saw in Henry last year. You can blame much of his failure on the OL as I have admitted time and time again was the majority of the fault for why our team's O stunk. Funny though that in many fans' eyes, it was only and completely attributable to Rob. So which is it? Rob, or the OL? Or a combination? Or does the standard now change for Drew, Henry, and the rest?

[WG]

And if you say the OL, then how come Bryson did just fine in the two games that he had more than 14 carries, averaging 5.4 ypc while Henry averaged only 3.5 ypc in all the games that he carried the ball for more than 14 times?

Bryson had 2 TDs on 80 carries. Henry had 4 on 213.

Personally, I don't think that Bryson's had even half the opps that Henry's had. Just as you say the OL is to blame last year, you cannot deny the coaching and totally bumbling play-calling and offensive "coordinating" that beplagued us in '00 under Phillips/Sheppard. No RB got the call for any entire game.

[The_Philster]

Simply put Wys, Bryson was running a lot of plays to the outside last season while Henry had more runs up the middle.

[Captain gameboy]

I think it's too early to tell Wys. This isn't a super bowl team by any stretch. We have a new OC, a new QB and an entirely reworked line with two starters out. Let them put the system in piece by piece and see if we can run on 9-8.

[Cntrygal]

Wys.... errr nice.... to see you "back".

:D

[WG]

Philster,

Yeah, I know. There's always a "reason" to justify the fans' perceptions. :D

gameboy,

I know. While many seem to think I'd like to see Bledsoe fail, I would simply suggest that's ridiculous! I want him to succeed even more than the rest. I know this isn't a SB team. Yet! LOL

Our OL has tremendous promise. Honestly, if the OL of (eventually) Williams, Brown, Conaty/Teague, Os/Sullivan, and Jennings, also assuming we'll bring in another or two this offseason, are not going to ever be very good, then I don't know who will be.

But giving Bledsoe all that he needs to succeed includes, first and foremost, a running game. He has never had a good season w/o one. I've seen precious little emphasis on that this offseason/preseason. Teague is a pass-protecting OL-man more than a run blocker. The only upgrade we made to our rushing game from last year other than Teague is Mike Williams and he's a rookie and will need some games to adjust one way or another. Price is a headscratcher IMO, but hey, what do I know. Meanwhile many other very good starting OGs slipped away often for as little as around $1M/yr. Whatever...

I fear that "selling seats" has taken a priority to winning games and that a high-powered "yardage-based" passing game is expected to lure fans into the seats for the later games this season in spite of winning games. I know we need to sell seats, but we also need to win some games in order to sell seats later this season. It's easy to talk about how well everyone is doing in camp or even preseason in a drive or two against competition that's usually less than formidable.

But what I care about is how well we're gonna do against the Jets in week 1 and how that single game will set the tone for our entire season. It's a HUGE game! Much more so than I think most people realize. It's one of only 6 divisional games this season and is against a team that we should have no trouble scoring on at this point. However, there is a caveat, and that is that they also have a high-powered offense capable of running up 40+ points any given week and most surely capable of running the ball down our throats until we throw up the white flag. Witness Martin's 258 rushing yards in two games and added another 65 receiving. Right now I'm concerned that he's gonna do even better this year.

If he has another 135 yard game, then we had better be able to counter on the ground as well. Otherwise it may very well be a long, long game. Personally, I'd rather not start off 0-1 w/ a key loss to the Jets already setting the tone for a poor divisional record. The Jets figure to be the easiest team in the division this season. If we struggle vs. them, it won't be good. Several much tougher games follow that and the Minnesota (road) games.

This offseason has been many things. But one of them has not appeared to be addressing either our running game or our rushing D, both of which are staples for success in the NFL. I would at least like to see a good faith effort here in the preseason on the part of GW to to the best that we can w/ what we have. Instead, we're looking to dish Bryson, for only a third or fourth rounder no less, while foolishly, IMO, insisting that Henry is the starter even though his brief NFL career has been beplagued by inconsistency.

Whether that inconsistency is his fault, that of the system and coaches, or of the OL notwithstanding. People will blame it on whomever they want to. But the fact remains, we need a strong running game this season and as of now, I just don't see it happening. We didn't have a strong one last year either, so it's not like we can expect anything.

Now that Bledsoe is "warmed up", and the jitters are out, I fully expect to see some running v. Minnesota. IMHO, and quite seriously, if Henry cannot amass more than a 4.0 ypc avg., and that's being generous against Minnesota, then we really need to consider putting in Bryson to see what he can do.

Bledsoe is gonna be hurtin' if we don't find a running game prior to our home-opener matchup vs. the Jets. Yeah, maybe I'm getting a little too excited. But I don't care how well Drew plays, or Wire, or anyone else during the preseason against teams who cannot cover WRs. I only want a win in week 1 vs. the Jets to kick off the year. What good is it if Drew is the best passer in the AFC this year while we are 5-11?

We have 27 days left before our home-opener, and that includes days off, days of PS games, travel days, etc. Practically speaking, it's probably about 18 or 19 days during which we can iron out the problems. Those will pass rapidly. After this Minnesota game, we ought to have a good solid idea of who's starting where on the OL. Teague was brought in b/c "he could play any position." Well it now seems that he doesn't want to play any position, that he wants to play T. Given the monstosities of OL-men we have in Jennings and Williams, it makes zero sense to put Teague on the ends. Personally, I don't think we should even have signed him, and I saw quite a few OL-men who IMO were far better. But that's water under the bridge. We have what we have. But we need to quit tinkering right up until the very last minute.

Drew is fine! He played a great game vs. Cincy. We know what he and his arm can do. So why waste the time "impressing the fans into buying tickets" when we should be focusing on what hasn't worked well at all this year or last. Namely our rushing game. We didn't do much to upgrade it. We signed no run-blocking OL-men even though a bunch of good ones were avaiable at very reasonable prices. So let's at least make sure do the best w/ what we have.

Drew is a rookie of almost 10 seasons now. I have no doubts that he'll be able to do what has been asked of him in week 1. He's been around the block and seen it all.

I'd like to see Henry get 20 carries this next PS game. If he cannot amass an avg. of at least 4.0 ypc against Minnesota, then I say let's try Bryson. I don't care what the reason is! We need to find a running game in the next two weeks at the latest. It won't be good if we're trying out different rushers a week before our season opener.

[WG]

Oh yeah,

CntryGal,

Thanks! I think...

;)

[WG]

P.S. To think we're gonna make it thru the entire season w/o a single injury to any one of our starters is silly. So to use the notion that Brown was out doesn't make a lot of sense. It allows us to concede that we'll have absolutely no running game as soon as one of our starters goes down. Hopefully MW and JJ won't get hurt.

Personally, I'd rather see Conaty in there at C since IMO he did a great job last year. Just another situation where I see salary driving starting status. What would it say for TD and GW if the high-priced Teague, WAY overpaid for IMO, sat the bench? Meanwhile, Conaty, who played injured last year and was the glue of leadership on our OL and quite possibly the O in general and did a fine job, gets to ride-the-pine. I guess if I had to pre-select an injury, if it did have to happen, Conaty filling in for Teague at center, a position that Teague apparently isn't either good at or comfortable playing, would be a good swap.

[HenryRules]

Wys, what Henry showed me that Bryson doesn't is a lack of carries for negative yards. Bryson is built in the style of Barry Sanders (although I think we can all agree nowhere near as gifted) where he'll have a few carries for negative yards and then bust a big play for 20+ yards. That is not at all what I consider a good running back. That is what I consider a good receiver running reverses and no team builds their running game around their receivers. It may work out to a good ypc, but I don't care, rushes for negative yards carry a lot more weight in my books than a ypc of 4+. If ypc were all that anyone cared about, Andre Reed's reverses should have been the staple of our running game back in the early 90's cuz he'd always do a good job. Henry on the other hand seldom breaks any big runs, but at the same time, hardly ever gets stopped for negative yards. As I said in my post, this is what I consider to be the most important ability of a RB. I don't care nearly as much about td's, yards, ypc, whatever, as I do about not having rushes for negative yards.

[HenryRules]

Wys, many fans may have blamed RJ for a lot of things, including the sacks he took, but not me (well some were his fault, but almost all good QB's take the odd sack waiting for a big play). No, I think that RJ is a decent thrower and may end up having a couple of good seasons as a QB. However, the reason that I thought RJ should not be back is the number 4. What's that number you ask? That's the number of games that he started and finished last year. I don't care how many hits he takes, that number is unacceptable for a starting QB with backups that are nowhere near his talent level playing on a team that is in a lot of close games. That means that 3 out of every 4 games we played last year we had a backup QB in for the most important moments of the game. Don't blame that on the OL either, because many QB's have taken a lot of hits and still managed to finish games and at least once or twice a year, every QB has games where they get sacked more than 6 times. RJ just was never able to handle that punishment. I think it was courageous of him to come back and start the next week after some of these injuries, but that doesn't matter, I want a starting QB who finishes games. Let's not get off topic here and start talking about RJ, I just wanted to clarify with you that not all Bills fans blame RJ for taking sacks.

[WG]

Are you sure HR? What are you basing this on?

Here are the two games that matchup well for both of those guys from late last year. Van Pelt started in both of those games. We had essentially the same OL. Both rush Ds sucked. Here are the stats between the two rushers:

A B
-2 -2
-1 -2
0 -1
0 -1
1 0
1 0
1 0
2 1
2 2
2 2
2 2
2 3
2 3
3 3
3 4
3 4
3 4
3 4
4 5
4 5
4 6
5 6
5 9
7 9
9 10
13 11
14 14
15

Who was who, w/o going and looking?

[Cntrygal]

:rolleyes:

[WG]

RB B had 16 runs of 3 yards+ and 7 rushes for 0 or negative yards.

RB A had only 15 runs of 3 yards+ but only 4 rushes for 0 or negative yards.

[WG]

LOL Cntry. Just tryin' to put some meat into this analysis. It ain't true.

[colin]

Originally posted by Wys Guy

Bottom line: We really don't need some sort of awesome passing game to be a SB team. We do need a very good running game to do it. I'd be a lot happier each and every week if we ran for 150 and only had as much passing. Especially if we had a respectable D. That would tell me that we're controlling games.


This is incorrect. Nearly every superbowl winning team had two things in common, good D and good passing. Running games were usually good too, but they were nearly always very good passing.

[HenryRules]

I disagree Colin. The Giants, the Ravens, and the Bears in recent vintage have won the super bowl based on a running game without a great passing game (some had decent passing games, but they're a super bowl team so they're not gonna be horrible at anything). Can't think of any teams in the last 15 years that won without a dominant running game.

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by Wys Guy


To your points, then why hasn't Bryson gotten much more of a look? He's managed to do so much more and with much greater regularity considering that he's only had a fraction of the games that Henry's had. Yet, he's performed even more admirably. Why?



That's because Bryson was drafted by Butler. If in case you didn't notice , TD is starting to get rid of them 1 by 1. Moulds will be the only one left.

IMO Bryson should have a fair shot at no. 1 spot. I like Henry but and ever since he was drafted he was annointed as the Bills future RB and we overlooked Bryson. I say keep them both and let them fight it out for no.1.

[justasportsfan]

It's been said that Bryson was a Antain Smith kind of Rb who punishes his tackler because of his size and speed.

Throw Bryson in and let him punish Zach Thomas and co. and when they are all softened up, let Henry walk to the endzone.:bones:

[WG]

Colin,

"This is incorrect. Nearly every superbowl winning team had two things in common, good D and good passing. Running games were usually good too, but they were nearly always very good passing."

If that was true, they first had a very good if not excellent rushing game. Name one single team who won a SB w/o having a decent running game. Going back you could argue the Ravens, but they won almost purely by D, the other primary ingredient.

Rams, Pats, Denver, G.B., Skins, Niners, Cowboys of their day, Steel Curtain teams, and most since have had very good running.

The Niners two years ago were about the best example of a team who had an oustanding passing game but no run or no D and look what they did. They were 5-11 or 6-10. I forget which. But Garcia made the pro-bowl on merit and was awesome quite frankly. Much better than Drew's ever played even. So even if Drew were to play like that this year, unless we had a decent running game to compliment, we wouldn't fare well in the POs.

Another fact is that no team w/ worse than a 12th ranked D has ever won the SB before last season. And the Pat D was playing MUCH better at year's end, so that is somewhat skewed due to the youth of their defensive talent. They improved all year long until they allowed less than 14 ppg over their last 12 including the POs.

In any case, we don't appear to have that kind of D as long as we cannot stop the run at all.

[HenryRules]

justasportsfan, last year the two of them were in competition for the job and TH grabbed it right off the bat - he looked amazing in preseason last year, and in my mind in the regular season as well. Bryson has had plenty of opportunity under this regime and the previous regime to grab the first-string RB role but hasn't done it. If he had burst on to the scene the way that Josh Reed is doing at receiver this year, he easily could have beaten out Antawain Smith for the starting job. Point is, SB never seems to jump up and grab the job when given an opportunity, nor does he seem to create opportunities for himself. Only time he seems to do well is at the end of a season when everything has pretty much been decided. Doesn't say a whole lot about his personality to me. Maybe this year will be different because he did pretty well in his two carries last game, but we'll see if he carries that on.

[WG]

I don't know how some people define "opportunity." To me, it means some games in which you're given the sole responsibility for carrying the ball the entire game, which usually entails getting the ball at least 20 times or so.

I have no idea how anyone can consider getting the ball 11 times a game in 3 different drives scattered throughout the game can be considered fair to a RB.

Bryson's never had that luxury! He's had only 1 game over 15 carries in '00, w/ most games being in the 8-12 range.

Last year he had only 2 games over 15 carries and only 1 over 20. So that's only 1 game w/ over 20 carries his entire career.

You think that's fair? I don't. I don't think he's been given a decent chance. I can tell ya what though, if Henry doesn't have at least 4.0 ypc this Friday against Minnesota, if I'm GW I make sure that Bryson starts the next game and gets the first half w/ the starting unit.

Much like w/ Brown, I don't think Bryson's been given much of anything. There was so much fan hype surrounding Henry last year that he has become irrefutably ensconced as the the Bills starter even though he's had far more inadequate games that good ones.

I think we're cheatin' ourselves as fans to not demand that GW play Bryson some. It would be a shame to trade him and see him be largely successful elsewhere. Until Henry actually does show up and start putting up some consistency in his running, I don't know if I'd be so hasty to shop Bryson.

[colin]

Originally posted by HenryRules
I disagree Colin. The Giants, the Ravens, and the Bears in recent vintage have won the super bowl based on a running game without a great passing game (some had decent passing games, but they're a super bowl team so they're not gonna be horrible at anything). Can't think of any teams in the last 15 years that won without a dominant running game.

Wys said that we DON'T need a great passing game, that is not true, we do. The passing game is required, I did not say running does not matter, but is of secondary importance.

Look at all of the superbowl teams, you can even extend it to the championship game teams. Very very few of them have a lesser passing game, nearly none have a bad D.

Furthermore, how many teams have a good passing game and a poor running game? Being able to pass is harder and more important.

[Bert102176]

the Bills are gonna ha one heck of a year with the team we have the other teams are introuble.
:punk:

[justasportsfan]

It's been said that "you are only as good as your last performance" .Bryson did a great job before the season ended last year and he's done a better job during the bengals preseason game com[ared to Henry. Don't get me wrong, I think Henry is our future, but if Bryson turns out to be better for now, use him.

I still think Henry will end up being our starter, but don't let Bryson go until Henry is a proven 1000 yard runner.

It's only been one preseason game but if Bryson turns out to do better, I don't think the starting job should be handed to anyone. I guess the Bills org. knows this. Let's just wait and see.

[WG]

As of now, all the ado about Henry is simply that; a bunch of talk.

Again, the excitement precedes reality here. What's he done thus far? Nothing this year! Not much last year either in most games he played in. Sure, he lit up the 28th and dead last rush Ds for over 100. Big deal. So did Pittman and a bunch of other scrub rushers on other teams.

All I'm saying is WTH are we so intent on forcing Henry into this mold when he's not proven anything. I'm tellin' ya, if he were to start and have another year like last year, he wouldn't be startin' again next year.

It's really simple; I'd just like to see our rushing O fixed by the HO. Since we have no rush D to speak of, that means teams will run all over us. I see no solution to that anymore for this season. The only counter to that will be a ball-control strong rushing game of our own. There is no way on earth that we're gonna effectively counter on a consistent basis, strong ball-control efforts by our opponents w/ a passing game. Perhaps once or twice, but not regularly.

I'm amazed at the "we're gonna win the division" aire around here simply b/c our O and Drew had one outstanding series. Sure it's a huge step up from last year, but a passing game is only one, the least necessary for success in this league after a rushing game and a rushing D.

Let's see what the Minnesota game brings. Maybe Henry finds his mojo and lights the Vike D up for 70 yards on 12 carries!

[lordofgun]

I can't believe there are people actually complaining about Bledsoe's performance. The man was GREAT on friday.

Not naming any names. :D

[justasportsfan]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
As of now, all the ado about Henry is simply that; a bunch of talk.

Again, the excitement precedes reality here. What's he done thus far? Nothing this year! Not much last year either in most games he played in. Sure, he lit up the 28th and dead last rush Ds for over 100. Big deal. So did Pittman and a bunch of other scrub rushers on other teams.

Wys, Henry didn't do such a bad job either despite the OL we had plus the fact that he was a rookie. Don't be too quick to write him off.I'd give him a chance and give Bryson an "equal" chance as well.

[WG]

I won't disagree w/ you completely. He didn't do anything much. The reasons why are what we have to figure out, and quickly, now. If it truly was the OL, then he should have some good PS games coming up. The rush D of Minnesota was attrocious last year, so it should be relatively easy for him to have a good game.

At what point would you be willing to say "let's give Bryson a try" considering that he's never had one and when he has been given the carries, he's shone everyone of the few times it's happened.

Like I said, if it was the OL last year, then it should be corrected now. We still don't have the Hog OL from the late '80s and early '90s, but it's very much better than it was for most of last year and probably around average right now w/ the hopes of improving immensely as the season goes on.

[WG]

He was great on Friday!

Who was complaining...?

:scratch:

[WG]

GO BILLS!!!

[lordofgun]

I agree!

[Michael82]

I didn't read all of Wys posts because quite honestly...who ever reads a whole post of his? :lol:

I do however have one thing to say. how can wys comment? He was not at the game and didn't listen to or watch the game on TV. All the comments about the game are coming from stats. Stats don't tell all and quite honestly...they don't let wys know what really happen. The first drive for Drew was awesome...so was the 2nd and 3rd too! The 1st team offense kicked ass, and didn't want to run...it seemed. The passing o was awesome! Whoever doesn't agree...is on crack! :D

[The_Philster]

I agree Mikey. Not only about needing to see what actually happened to judge (stats never tell the whole story) but about reading a full Wys post...it takes too darn long. :lol:

[Novacane]

Originally posted by Wys Guy
He was great on Friday!

Who was complaining...?

:scratch:


Gee, I don't know? Somebody did say something about his interception being a misread coverage and complaining that his week point is misreading coverage even though the person that said that was not at the game and the int. was not a misread coverage just a little underthrown or it would have been 6! :hammer:

[Novacane]

Even if you were going by just stats Bledsoe had a great game!

[HenryRules]

Wys, first, unlike other people, before responding to your posts, I will read the whole thing, so don't think your posts are being wasted on everyone.
I disagree that Bryson has not had any opportunites. Opportunities are not just given to you in the middle of the regular season. Opportunities are earned and doors must be broken down to get into starting lineups, something Bryson has been unable to do (for examples of people who have been able to do so, see Nate Clements, Pat Williams, and Travis Henry - in training camp last year). Point is, Bryson has gone into two training camps (I'm not counting this one) where a great camp would have earned him the starting nod. Henry was most definitely not given the job last year, he stole it in training camp by having an amazing camp. In 2000 what better opportunity could Bryson have had, he was given the starting nod in about 8 games or so and did alright, but not much better than Morris or Smith, two players who will no longer be with the team at the end of training camp. What more does he need to be given to qualify as having an "opportunity"? He has an opportunity every practice and every down he's on the field to steal the job from Henry. Point is, he's never taken advantage of any of these opportunities - except for parts of 2000 but even then, he was no better than the other backs deemed unworthy of starting for Buffalo.

[HenryRules]

Having said that, if JJ isn't playing for an extended period of time, I don't know if it really matters who our starting RB is.

[Earthquake Enyart]

I want to preface this by saying that I did not see the game, as the toilet hookup was unsuccessful. But I don't understand how you all could be beating the offense to death when they allowed almost 200 yards rushing. Suddenly Bills players look better in FFL because they will be in shootouts all year.

[northernbillfan]

I'm not going to read any of these posts, I just got back from a mini vacation, saw the report on TSN after the game.

I am to understand Bledsoe only played for a bit of the game, if I am wrong please correct me. The Bills looked good to me in the 90 seconds they showed.

I am not getting negative about the game, it was just preseason. I will not write off this season, hell, it hasn't even started yet.

I still believe!