Young is dumb if he doesn't come out, and we don't need him!

[ICE74129]

Lets get this out of the way now. I am telling you we don't need the guy. Until the 2nd 1/2 of last year he did nothing. He is a great Athlete, but we have our QB. Or do we? Well we won't know until we put an NFL Caliber line in front of him and have the Coach establish he is the starter for a full year. Not until then can we state JP is anything at all.

And why young? You guys will throw his ass under the bus at the first sign of trouble, I know you will. 'But ICE he won the national championship blah blah blah'. So? many have done it, but you don't see those QB's starting on NFL Rosters do you?

Matt Lionart, Vince Young, it doesn't matter. They will all struggle as bad or maybe worse than JP did. Why? Because there are just things you can't get by being a rookie in the NFL. Sit the bench 2 years? Yeah rivers essentially did that....how did he look last weekend? Like crap! Neither of these guys is going to the Steelers so they will struggle.

That all said, Vince is worried he won't go in the top 5? Someone is advising him to wait till next year? Why? OU is back on the rise and most likely will beat Texas. Texas is losing a TON of guys (OL and defense) so they won't repeat. can tell you now Matt is wishing he went to San Fran last year, Nothing beats being the #1 pick. Now he isn't even the most talented QB coming out. The workouts will prove this. He is starting to be labled a 'system QB' which is the worst thing you could be labled. 'Well he only won because of the TEAM'. Well yeah, mostly.

Tennessee needs someone to groom to replace McNair. PERFECT situation for Vince. I would work within the NCAA Rules and see what the chances are he will go there and think long and hard about making the jump.

[don137]

He went into Ohio State and beat a great team in there own backyard in the first half of the season. He did get better as the season wore on but isn't that a sign of maturity?
I would take him over what we have but I don't see him falling to us. If he does come out that means someone that would be available could fall to us.
Someone is advising he may not go in the top 5 did so BEFORE the game. No way he drops out of the top five iver that game. Heck, I think he went ahead of Leinhart. If anyone was hurt by Young's performance it was Leinhart

[Turf]

I would take him but it would undermine our other needs for linemen.

[RedEyE]

F that. If I had to choose between Young and Losman, I'd take Young everyday of the week. The kid has poise, and knows how to win. He's already light years ahead of Losman in develpoment and will have an immediate impact on any team he signs with.

What athletic ability! He broke an NCAA record of having 2500 yards passing and 1000 yards rushing.

This kid is the future of the NFL, and everything that we wish Losman could be. Lineman or not, if this kid comes out and is available to us at the 8th over all, you have to pull the trigger.

[carybillsfan]

Relax everyone, If he comes out he will not make it past the Titans pick. No way we get him unless we trade up and that would be just stupid.

[ryjam282]

Well, if he does come out. I think he is a lock to go to Tennessee. Leinart will probably go to NO so that means another good player dropping down to us.

[DaBills]

I'd take him. No offense to JP, but after that performance, is there a choice? Young wasn't available at the time, so we went with JP. But now, if both are up there on the board when we pick, is anyone taking JP? And that's the criteria to use, plain and simple.

Say what what you will about Young being cocky, and he sure was that on the podium, but he backed it up on the field, calmly too. In THEIR stadium, on arguably his largest stage yet. Great patience, running, throwing both short and long, not making stupid mistakes causing him to throw his way back into the game. C'mon, what's not to like.

We signed RJ on the strength alone of one average NFL performance - don't tell me you guys wouldn't consider signing Vince based on last night's.

[ICE74129]

Ok hold up here. You guys are all jacked up on Young after the national championship game. That is typical fandom.

BEFORE THIS GAME there were SERIOUS Questions on how good a QUARTERBACK this guy will be in the NFL, not college, NFL. He still has issues reading defenses, Still wants to run before checking down etc.

Look I agree the kid had a great game, but we HAVE A QUARTERBACK! Vince young is NOT going to come in and lead Houston, Buffalo or anyone else outside of maybe New England or Pittsburgh to the playoffs as a rookie. The game will be way too fast for him, EVERY player is as good or better than the best defensive player on USC's Defense in the NFL Etc.

I understand the excitement, I understand the Oooh's and Ahhhh's I really do. But Step back and be realistic. We have a very talented QB on this roster now that YOU THE FANS and our coaching staff didn't really give a chance. Our veterans submarined him in the locker room etc. Vince young wouldn't have done much better IN BUFFALO this year. Sorry, No way. That is the REALITY of the situation.

Here is the other two realities....BUILD A GDAMN OLINE! No matter WHO is at QB, this OL needs a complete overhaul. As does BOTH DT spots, Both safety spots, WR, TE etc. We have a TEAM full of issues to deal with long before the luxury of taking a vince young. A good football man understands, if the seas turned red and Young was there with the 8th pick...you take the best DT or OL on the board and pass on young. This isn't madden folks.

Second reality, Houston MUST take him. Money, money and more marketing Money. You think Vick sells in Atlanta? Nothing compared to what Young does for the Texans. Add to that, they just signed thier starting RB to a 21 mill deal this offseason, you pass on Reggie bush. Take young, Draft OL And sign OL in free agency and Houston will be on the right track.

We don't need young. We need to shore up this damn TEAM and give the kid we have a decent shot before doing anything else.

[DaBills]

Yep, I hear ya. I'm a little jacked up. Watching a college team actually have an OL better than ours got me crazy, lol. But I've been in favor of starting JP all year and have always said build the line, so have some others, not changing my tune now.

And start JP for no other reason than the coaching staff made such a big deal out of the announcement. Everyone went 'But he's not ready!' Ok, fair enough. But NO rook QB is ever truly ready. How's he going to learn though by sitting and watching KH?

Their biggest mistake – besides having TD on staff – was saying JP was going to start, then benching him. Right now, that's how many games we could've used to develop him or see if would've gotten worse? Now, MM is still here and tell me that there weren't be a fractured relationship between QB and HC?

If JP is ultimately going to be great, he HAS to be on the same page as his HC. Things is, will that happen with MM and can Levy step in to fix things, remains to be seen. I firmly believe that MM and TD got too ahead of themselves in how they game-planned for JP. It looked too many times like they were trying to make him be this great NFL prototypical pocket passer and go deep all the time. Almost like they were trying to justify their decision to start himand prove he was a legit NFL-caliber QB. All that did imo was set him up for failure.

They needed to put him in situations that would allow him to have a bunch of smaller successes, then build on that. So maybe you max-protect him a little more until he gets his feet. Few more screens and dump-offs. Moulds on slants, etc. NOT a freakin' homerun ball almost every time. Exaggerating of course, but you see what I mean. Drew the human statue had good success utilizing Centers out of the backfield, but we couldn't do that with WM for JP? I don't get it.

I'm thinking if Parcells can max-protect for a statue like Bledsoe, why couldn't MM for JP seeing how he needed time to develop? (Yes I know, MM is not even 25% the coach Parcells is.) Point being, MM depended too much on JP scrambling his way out of trouble to make up for ****ty OL line play and lack of depth at same.


Anyway, only thing I'm saying is, those two come out the same this year though, and I'm taking Young hands down. There were a lot of doubters of how JP would do in the pros too, but I don't recall him having a game like Young did last night which would've silenced some of the critics.



:afro:

[The Natrix]

The Bills would obviously take Young if he was available. But they won't, because Houston is going to take him and trade Carr.

[ICE74129]

Yep, I hear ya. I'm a little jacked up. Watching a college team actually have an OL better than ours got me crazy, lol. But I've been in favor of starting JP all year and have always said build the line, so have some others, not changing my tune now.

And start JP for no other reason than the coaching staff made such a big deal out of the announcement. Everyone went 'But he's not ready!' Ok, fair enough. But NO rook QB is ever truly ready. How's he going to learn though by sitting and watching KH?

Their biggest mistake – besides having TD on staff – was saying JP was going to start, then benching him. Right now, that's how many games we could've used to develop him or see if would've gotten worse? Now, MM is still here and tell me that there weren't be a fractured relationship between QB and HC?

If JP is ultimately going to be great, he HAS to be on the same page as his HC. Things is, will that happen with MM and can Levy step in to fix things, remains to be seen. I firmly believe that MM and TD got too ahead of themselves in how they game-planned for JP. It looked too many times like they were trying to make him be this great NFL prototypical pocket passer and go deep all the time. Almost like they were trying to justify their decision to start himand prove he was a legit NFL-caliber QB. All that did imo was set him up for failure.

They needed to put him in situations that would allow him to have a bunch of smaller successes, then build on that. So maybe you max-protect him a little more until he gets his feet. Few more screens and dump-offs. Moulds on slants, etc. NOT a freakin' homerun ball almost every time. Exaggerating of course, but you see what I mean. Drew the human statue had good success utilizing Centers out of the backfield, but we couldn't do that with WM for JP? I don't get it.

I'm thinking if Parcells can max-protect for a statue like Bledsoe, why couldn't MM for JP seeing how he needed time to develop? (Yes I know, MM is not even 25% the coach Parcells is.) Point being, MM depended too much on JP scrambling his way out of trouble to make up for ****ty OL line play and lack of depth at same.


Anyway, only thing I'm saying is, those two come out the same this year though, and I'm taking Young hands down. There were a lot of doubters of how JP would do in the pros too, but I don't recall him having a game like Young did last night which would've silenced some of the critics.



:afro:

Great post brother, and I agree if JP were side by side with young, I might just take young. BUT! BOTH NEED TIME!

Some on this board seem to think Young is going to walk onto the field and win a superbowl.....Uh NO! he needs TIME TO DEVELOP! If the texans take the time, this kid will be one hell of a QB.

[ICE74129]

The Bills would obviously take Young if he was available. But they won't, because Houston is going to take him and trade Carr.

Prove it. Prove to me Ralph wilson, Marv Levy and Tom Modrak would take young instead of putting a line in front of losman. You can't.

Now we know why Marv is going to be GM and Modrak handle the draft. Because TD would have made that STUPID move you are talking about. I am not saying you are stupid, I am saying when you have a first round pick on your team with tons of talent and you don't put a line in front of him, then write him off to take the next first round QB that comes along....that is STUPID!

[The_Philster]

Young will need more than time...he'll need some blocking up front..something Carr hasn't had his entire time in the NFL

[The Natrix]

Prove it. Prove to me Ralph wilson, Marv Levy and Tom Modrak would take young instead of putting a line in front of losman. You can't.

Now we know why Marv is going to be GM and Modrak handle the draft. Because TD would have made that STUPID move you are talking about. I am not saying you are stupid, I am saying when you have a first round pick on your team with tons of talent and you don't put a line in front of him, then write him off to take the next first round QB that comes along....that is STUPID!




I like Losman, I just think Young is going to be something special. There's just nothing I dislike about him at all. He looks like he's freaking 7 feet tall. He can run, but he looks to throw first, because he can find the open receiver and his passes are usually right on the money. He's smart, and doesn't get flustered easily.

JMO

[ICE74129]

I like Losman, I just think Young is going to be something special. There's just nothing I dislike about him at all. He looks like he's freaking 7 feet tall. He can run, but he looks to throw first, because he can find the open receiver and his passes are usually right on the money. He's smart, and doesn't get flustered easily.

JMO

I agree, but until we put a line infront of losman, give him some real support and playcalling we might be getting rid of a stellar NFL player. OR he may be a bust. The point is we need to take certain steps before we toss out a guy that just might go to another team and become something.

The ONLY thing this new staff needs to be thinking is Offensive line, Defensive line and better conditioning and playcalling. THEN we can start thinking about other things.

[feelthepain]

The Bills would obviously take Young if he was available. But they won't, because Houston is going to take him and trade Carr.


Yes,the Bills would take Young because he's five times more talented then JP will ever be and the Texans would take Young over Bush and trade Carr because they could get more for Carr then D.Davis. And who do you think will be in the running for Carr if he were to be traded??? Thats right Miami. JP is not a pro QB.

[ICE74129]

JP is not a pro QB.

And you can say this how? No one can. Not until a line is put in front of him, someone smarter than gomer pyle is calling the plays and he has a full year with full support for a year.

[TacklingDummy]

Young will need more than time...he'll need some blocking up front..something Carr hasn't had his entire time in the NFL

When RJ was here we heard the same excuse. The o-line. Well, the O-line played fine with the Midget.

With JP here we hear the same excuse. Well ,when Cement feet plays the o-line looks alot better. Hell, cement feet only got sacked 14 times to that moblie QBs 26.

It's the QBs job to get rid of the ball.

Carr has the same problems JP and RJ had. They want to hold on to the ball until a receiver is open by a mile.

[Mr. Cynical]

College is not the NFL.

[feelthepain]

And you can say this how? No one can. Not until a line is put in front of him, someone smarter than gomer pyle is calling the plays and he has a full year with full support for a year.

I know you want JP to succeed and I can't blame you for wanting that, but he is not the QB you want him to be. A bad line didn't stop Holcomb from putting up better numbers is Holcomb anything special?? No!! Yes the Bills do need to upgrade the line but it's not an excuse to not at least finish the season as the starter. JP knows the O he's been in the Buffalo system long enough not to struggle with the schemes. He can't make simple reads or check downs . His weaknesses aren't physical they are mental and that won't change.

He will be a Kelly Holcomb if he's lucky enough to hang around for ten years. TD made a huge mistake taking JP and it's just one of the reasons he's no longer the GM. You would not have seen any other team move up to take JP in the draft because no one else had him ranked that high. Like I said the 5th rd woud have been where he should have been drafted. Had TD drafted some Oline help the last two drafts then he may have improved the Bill's but ridiculous picks like Rosco, and JP were huge mistakes for a team that didn't have the luxury of drafting projects.

[Mr. Cynical]

I know you want JP to succeed and I can't blame you for wanting that, but he is not the QB you want him to be. A bad line didn't stop Holcomb from putting up better numbers is Holcomb anything special?? No!! Yes the Bills do need to upgrade the line but it's not an excuse to not at least finish the season as the starter. JP knows the O he's been in the Buffalo system long enough not to struggle with the schemes. He can't make simple reads or check downs . His weaknesses aren't physical they are mental and that won't change.

He will be a Kelly Holcomb if he's lucky enough to hang around for ten years.

:coocoo:

[TacklingDummy]

I know you want JP to succeed and I can't blame you for wanting that, but he is not the QB you want him to be. A bad line didn't stop Holcomb from putting up better numbers is Holcomb anything special?? No!!.

:goodpost:

If JP was anyone else's QB besides a Buffalo Bill, Bills fans would be laughing their asses off at him.

I can't beleive some people say we shouldn't draft Young if he was available at our pick.

[ICE74129]

What better numbers did Holcomb put up? Both have a losing record. KH only has 2 more TD's and the same ints. again, BOTH HAVE A LOSING RECORD!

What QB rating? that means nothing in this league. It is the biggest bunch of crap ever invented. hell Orton has the WORST QB rating in the league but has more wins than holcomb does. So what does that say about the ratings system.

Bottom line there are a handful of ******s that are going to keep spewing this crap hoping that someone elses backup is going to save us. Flutie is a backup, RJ is a out of the league, Holcomb is a backup, Todd Collins a Backup. The only LEGIT shot at a real starter is losman.

[Mr. Cynical]

What better numbers did Holcomb put up? Both have a losing record. KH only has 2 more TD's and the same ints. again, BOTH HAVE A LOSING RECORD!

What QB rating? that means nothing in this league. It is the biggest bunch of crap ever invented. hell Orton has the WORST QB rating in the league but has more wins than holcomb does. So what does that say about the ratings system.

Bottom line there are a handful of ******s that are going to keep spewing this crap hoping that someone elses backup is going to save us. Flutie is a backup, RJ is a out of the league, Holcomb is a backup, Todd Collins a Backup. The only LEGIT shot at a real starter is losman.

:bf1:

Some people just are never going to get it. Anyone who judges a QB on 10 games playing under a s**t OC (who was just fired, btw) and with a s**t line has zero football sense. If he doesn't improve next year, then yes, go after someone else. Had JP played more this year we would have known more but :cow: screwed that up.

And BTW - the only direct comparison you can make between JP and KH is the KC game. Same offense going against the same defense in the same game. KH: zero points. JP: 2 TDs, no INTs and won the game. End of story.

[feelthepain]

What better numbers did Holcomb put up? Both have a losing record. KH only has 2 more TD's and the same ints. again, BOTH HAVE A LOSING RECORD!

What QB rating? that means nothing in this league. It is the biggest bunch of crap ever invented. hell Orton has the WORST QB rating in the league but has more wins than holcomb does. So what does that say about the ratings system.

Bottom line there are a handful of ******s that are going to keep spewing this crap hoping that someone elses backup is going to save us. Flutie is a backup, RJ is a out of the league, Holcomb is a backup, Todd Collins a Backup. The only LEGIT shot at a real starter is losman.

If Holcomb is a backup in Buffalo, why did he start over JP?? For people without blinders on, it's obvious. It will take more of the same for you to take the blinders off.

[TacklingDummy]

Ice, Losman is a backup and he sucks.

The only legit shot we have at becoming the team we all want to become is with a real QB.

[TacklingDummy]

If Holcomb is a backup in Buffalo, why did he start over JP?? For people without blinders on, it's obvious. It will take more of the same for you to take the blinders off.

Some trolls just don't get it.

[feelthepain]

:goodpost:

If JP was anyone else's QB besides a Buffalo Bill, Bills fans would be laughing their asses off at him.

I can't beleive some people say we shouldn't draft Young if he was available at our pick.


And this is very true, if JP were the QB on any other team in the AFC east the Bill fans would be laughing their @$$es off!! But since he's a Bill, well he's a superstar in the making. Everything thats wrong with JP is evryone and everything but JP, according to most Bill fans.

[Tatonka]

first - young sucks.. i really dont think he is going to be **** in the nfl.. he is a runner that is not fast.. the guys in the nfl will kill his tall lanky ass.. and his throwing motion is sidearm almost.. another negative that will get exploited in the nfl, OR a team will have to spend time fixing that.. his throws dont have zip on them.. he honestly just looks like a great college qb but he wont be a good pro q

second.. jp looks better than steve yound and john elway did at this point in their careers.. so i guess you would dump them too.. like tampa dumped young to san fran.. or farve from atlanta to green bay..

come on guys.. have a little patience.

[TacklingDummy]

second.. jp looks better than steve yound and john elway did at this point in their careers.. so i guess you would dump them too.. like tampa dumped young to san fran.. or farve from atlanta to green bay..
come on guys.. have a little patience.

For every JP comparison to Elway, Farve, Young, Manning's, JP can also be compared to Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, David Klinger, Ryan Leaf, Todd Marinovich, Jim Drunkinmiller (sp), Rob Johnson, etc....

[TacklingDummy]

second.. jp looks better than steve yound and john elway did at this point in their careers.. so i guess you would dump them too.. like tampa dumped young to san fran.. or farve from atlanta to green bay..
come on guys.. have a little patience.
For every JP comparison to Elway, Farve, Young, Manning's, JP can also be compared to Akili Smith, Heath Shuler, David Klinger, Ryan Leaf, Todd Marinovich, Jim Drunkinmiller (sp), Rob Johnson, etc....

[Dicknoze69]

You can compare any young quarterback to those guys, or you could compare him to Hall of Famers.

It all depends how you see it.

[Bill Cody]

first - young sucks.. i really dont think he is going to be **** in the nfl.. he is a runner that is not fast.. the guys in the nfl will kill his tall lanky ass.. and his throwing motion is sidearm almost.. another negative that will get exploited in the nfl, OR a team will have to spend time fixing that.. his throws dont have zip on them.. he honestly just looks like a great college qb but he wont be a good pro q

second.. jp looks better than steve yound and john elway did at this point in their careers.. so i guess you would dump them too.. like tampa dumped young to san fran.. or farve from atlanta to green bay..

come on guys.. have a little patience.


:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[Crisis]

Young does suck.

He runs around the pocket way too early, he isn't very fast (he can get away with in college, not the NFL), he can't throw the deep ball well, he throws side-armed, he runs a high-school offense, most his throws are out of the shotgun....

[The Natrix]

If Young sucks, then Rob Johnson is a great QB.

[Crisis]

When will people learn being a great athlete doesn't make you a great QB.

[The Natrix]

Yeah, but being a great QB and a geat athlete makes you an even greater QB. The NFL hasn't seen one of those yet.

[Crisis]

Young isn't a great QB. He relies on his athletic ability more than his arm. He can't throw a deep ball well, and always throws out of the shotgun.

I don't get the hype over someone running such a simple offense.

[The Natrix]

Young isn't a great QB. He relies on his athletic ability more than his arm. He can't throw a deep ball well, and always throws out of the shotgun.

I don't get the hype over someone running such a simple offense.


He's a great college QB. Obviously he's going to take time to progress in the NFL but I don't see anyway he will be a bust barring injury. I'd say in his second year he'll be a top 10 QB.

[DaBills]

If Marv and MM do anything other than build the OL or DL first, then we should just go and see if RJ wants to come back because it just won't matter. How many years now have we all said 'just build the line', yet no one at 1BD listens. Unreal.

Right now, because we already have JP and don't really have to make that decision between him and Young (except on these boards), Marv needs to spend money on the OL.

And it's funny how in just a week how quickly the tide on the boards has turned, myself included, from wanting a shot at Bush to now considering Young.

[TigerJ]

I don't think I would take him because I don't think Vince Young behind our present line would allow him to have the kind of success we would want to see. However if I had a choice between Vince Young and Michael Vick, I'd pick Young in a heart beat. He doesn't run as fast, but he's bigger, stronger, (not necessarilly talking arm strength) smarter, more of a student of the game, more accurate, and tougher.