Giants interested in Clements?

[Gunzlingr]

Not surprisingly, Pierce even had a player in mind: Buffalo's Nate Clements, who could become a free agent if the Bills don't make him their "franchise player." Clements, who had two interceptions this year and has 20 in his five-year career, has said he wants to be the highest-paid cornerback in the NFL.
That puts his price tag above what Bailey got from Denver - an $18 million signing bonus and a seven-year, $63 million deal.
"He's probably one of the top corners in the league," Pierce said. "He doesn't get a lot of recognition, but you watch him week in and week out, he does it all - tackling, covering, and he plays with intensity." Though that's a high price, a cornerback is likely to be the Giants' top offseason target. Their pass defense ranked 24th in the NFL, giving up 327.5 yards per game. The cornerbacks only came up with two interceptions all year (one by Frank Walker, one by Curtis Deloatch).

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/story/381548p-323974c.html


If he wants to be paid more than any other CB, I say tag him and trade him. There is no way he should be getting $63 million dollars. Just my opinion.

[The King]

The Giants will have like the 23rd pick right?

[RedEyE]

Slap the tag on Nate and draw the trade.

[The King]

Slap the tag on Nate and draw the trade.

There is a very good chance we could land Huff or Williams with that pick.

[Bill Brasky]

Tag and trade him!!!!!

[RedEyE]

There is a very good chance we could land Huff or Williams with that pick.

If so, then it's well worth it. IMO, Clements performance has dropped considerably over the last couple seasons. He won't be worth the money in 2 seasons.

[Typ0]

Clements performance has dropped because our DL was not getting the job done.

[Bill Brasky]

Franchise players rise to the occassion Typo, they don't sink with the ship.

Barry Sanders never made excuses.

[RedEyE]

Clements performance has dropped because our DL was not getting the job done.

Perhaps. I still don't think he's worth the green.

[ShadowHawk7]

Actually last year he was top 3, without a doubt, but his play tailed off considerably this year. IF he realizes that, and lowers his expectations, I'd like him back. If not, TAG TRADE!!!

[madness]

It's kind of hard to cover man to man when you're playing 8 yards off all the time.

[Stewie]

whatever we end up doing with nate, this gives us some nice leverage

[AndreReed83]

Nate's work ethic this year was pathetic. So was his mental state in games. Tag him, get him out, his return will bring much more then keeping him in Buffalo would equal.

[madness]

whatever we end up doing with nate, this gives us some nice leverage

Woohoo! I just remembered TD isn't here anymore to screw it up!!

[ICE74129]

Slap the tag on Nate and draw the trade.

100% correct! Tag and trade. Call up the Gmen and start talking about it. Have the deal in place for the first day of FA. Agree to their 1st round pick straight up and let him go!

[The King]

Nate's work ethic this year was pathetic. So was his mental state in games. Tag him, get him out, his return will bring much more then keeping him in Buffalo would equal.


:clap: Thats it! He isnt a leader and he doesn't play hard every down. Not the kind of player you throw a huge contract at.

[ICE74129]

:clap: Thats it! He isnt a leader and he doesn't play hard every down. Not the kind of player you throw a huge contract at.
You're damn right!

[madness]

:clap: Thats it! He isnt a leader and he doesn't play hard every down. Not the kind of player you throw a huge contract at.

Well if Marv sticks to his guns about the character thing...

:bigwave: Clements

[ICE74129]

Well if Marv sticks to his guns about the character thing...

:bigwave: Clements

Add McGahee to that list as well.

[Kerr]

I say, tag and trade him.

[gr8slayer]

I still think we will regret it if we get rid of him.

[djjimkelly]

u guys crack me up sometimes great cbs dont grow on trees yes nate was burnt a few times this year but i hae to remind every CB gets burnt. i think the biggest thing u have to look at when looking at nate is when the d line played decent in a game not allowing qb to have 10 secs to throw he did the job. deion sander in his prime would have a problems covering josh reed for 10 secs with no pass rush. we need to tag and KEEP nate

[Night Train]

If tagging and trading is so easy, why aren't there 20-25 of these instances every off-season ? Why didn't Alexander and E. James not even draw a 2nd round pick last spring for their services, after they were tagged ?

Could it be the large contract demands ? How is Nate any different ?

[HAMMER]

If tagging and trading is so easy, why aren't there 20-25 of these instances every off-season ? Why didn't Alexander and E. James not even draw a 2nd round pick last spring for their services, after they were tagged ?

Could it be the large contract demands ? How is Nate any different ?

Ahhhh, someone who gets it. People think it is easy as we got away with murder when Blank and the Falcons took PP off our hands. It is NOT easy to get a team to give up their first round pick, I can almost guarantee the Giants or any other team will not do it. They will wait us out and if we don't tag him they will jump into the bidding.

[mysticsoto]

If tagging and trading is so easy, why aren't there 20-25 of these instances every off-season ? Why didn't Alexander and E. James not even draw a 2nd round pick last spring for their services, after they were tagged ?

Could it be the large contract demands ? How is Nate any different ?

You have to be in demand for the tag/trade thing to work. Last year, there was a glut of RBs which is the reason why we were having trouble getting rid of Travis Henry. Cornerbacks are few right now. The Patriots would probably like to get ahold of a few also. Trading Nate to Giants would be a great trade for both teams. The Giants could use an upgrade at their CB and we could use a high pick to help our team start over and rebuild.

[Iehoshua]

Franchise players rise to the occassion Typo, they don't sink with the ship.

Barry Sanders never made excuses.
You're correct.

Barry Sanders flat out quit on his team.

:down:

[eyedog]

The funny thing about football is you can't fool the players. The players play and they know who can play and who can't.{ most of the time}.
Nate had an off year but as noted the d-line sucked so bad any corner would have problems. Also they had him 8 yds. off the ball because they had to blitz every g-damn passing down to get any pressure at all, and most of the time that didn't work either.
I say we keep Nate if at all possible. Work out the extension.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Franchise players rise to the occassion Typo, they don't sink with the ship.

Barry Sanders never made excuses.
Holy wise words from jfreeman. :eek:

[The King]

Nate is the me kind of "me" player that Marv wants out. Tag trade or flat out dont resign, Nate will not be back.

[ICE74129]

You're correct.

Barry Sanders flat out quit on his team.

:down:

Acually the FACTS are he always gave 100% thoughout the season and kept his mouth SHUT. He RETIRED in the OFFSEASON. he never quit and you will never find a player to say Barry sanders QUIT! Willis mcgahee QUIT this season about week 10. Sanders is the man.

[ICE74129]

As for as the tag goes one poster was right, supply and demand. NYG has already stated they want him, God knows what other teams are stupid enough to over pay for him.

CB's are a dime a dozen IF you have a good pass rush. Hell New England went to and WON The damn superbowl with 4 BACKUPS! BACKUPS folks! Not one guy was a starter. Hell they used a damn WR as a CB things were so bad. They didn't have nor didnt' need a 'Nate Clements'.

NO CB is worth the jack they are getting paid...NO CB! Use that money to pay TWO DLinemen and upgrade your pass rush and see how good McGee and clements replacement plays.

[TigerJ]

Given the Buffalo is certainly not going to make Nate the highest paid corner in the league, a franchise and trade strategy could work out well, but the Bills have to be careful in this. If they don't regard him as at least worth the franchise price tag they could get burned. Teams sometimes play psychological games with each other. The scenario could play out like this: The Giants like Clements but agree with Buffalo that he doesn't deserve to be the highest CB in the league. They drop hints that they like him and might try to sign him. Clements gets an inflated view of his worth and decides to play hard ball in negotiation with the Bills. Buffalo would like to resign him even though his play this past season in their minds didn't warrant being paid like one of the top five corner backs in the league. They figure they're going to lose him anyway so they play the franchise and trade card. But the Giants have second thoughts. They still like him, but they figure they can more bang for their buck in the draft. There are no other takers in the league willing to give up a first round pick for Clements, so Buffalo is left holding the bag. That's why I say that before intitating the franchise and trade strategy, Buffalo has to decide that if they are stuck with him he's going to be worth a franchise salary.

[Mr. Cynical]

T&T him

[HAMMER]

As for as the tag goes one poster was right, supply and demand. NYG has already stated they want him, God knows what other teams are stupid enough to over pay for him.

CB's are a dime a dozen IF you have a good pass rush. Hell New England went to and WON The damn superbowl with 4 BACKUPS! BACKUPS folks! Not one guy was a starter. Hell they used a damn WR as a CB things were so bad. They didn't have nor didnt' need a 'Nate Clements'.

NO CB is worth the jack they are getting paid...NO CB! Use that money to pay TWO DLinemen and upgrade your pass rush and see how good McGee and clements replacement plays.

Yes, Yes.

[Iehoshua]

Acually the FACTS are he always gave 100% thoughout the season and kept his mouth SHUT. He RETIRED in the OFFSEASON. he never quit and you will never find a player to say Barry sanders QUIT! Willis mcgahee QUIT this season about week 10. Sanders is the man.
"Retired" is a nice way of saying he gave up. Players wouldn't say out of respect for the man and his accomplishments. You have your opinion of the situation, I have mine. You can say he did nothing wrong and that may be true, but I don't believe Barry had the heart of a champion.

[Devin]

IF we get a 1st or 2nd for Nate........ our Day 1 looks like:

1st - 8th pick
1st/2nd - Nate trade
2nd - 8th pick
3rd - 3rd pick
3rd - 8th pick

Damn!!!!! Thats a lot of talent that could be added. Or better yet we could trade up a spot and grab Mario Williams!!!!

[THATHURMANATOR]

There is no way Nate should be the highest paid DB in the.. I do think he is very valuable to this team and should be pursued however.

[Michael82]

If we can get a 1st rounder for him...just imagine the possibilities....

1st round - 8th pick of the NFL Draft
1st round - late pick of the round
2nd round - top 10 pick
3rd round - top 10 pick
3rd round - top 5 pick.

:drool:

[Devin]

Well its tough to tell now, my gut tells me it would more likely be a 2nd/3rd rounder but ultimatley it will just depend on how bad someone wants him.

That being said if we got a 1st for peerless id imagine the same COULD be done with Nate.

[DaBills]

Clements' play this year made me wish we had Winfield back.

From the Giants POV though, I don’t see how Nate is an improvement over Will Allen. This year they were both two pieces of burnt toast.

And as much as we hate the thought, and Capologist can correct me on this, Nate may not end up being the highest paid, but he’s gonna get top-5 dollars for a CB no matter what, whether we pay it or someone else does.




"Barry Sanders flat out quit on his team."

I gotta say that's bs. The ownership of Detroit quit on that dude. Gave him no support whatsoever and showed no commitment to winning. They totally rode his back.

[Iehoshua]

"Barry Sanders flat out quit on his team."

I gotta say that's bs. The ownership of Detroit quit on that dude. Gave him no support whatsoever and showed no commitment to winning. They totally rode his back.
One could argue the ownership of Buffalo quit after letting TD run the team into the ground for the past 5 years. In this case, it'd be okay for Spikes, McGahee, Moulds, and everyone else to retire, too, by your logic, right?

[TacklingDummy]

IF we get a 1st or 2nd for Nate........ our Day 1 looks like:



A first or a second for one of the best corners in the NFL? Don't forget you then have to draft a CB and hope that he turns out good.

Letting Nate go would be a Big Mistake. Just like leting Pat Williams go.

How is it teams like Indy can afford stars like Feeney, Manning, James, Harrison, and we can't even afford to pay one of the best players on our team?

[DaBills]

One could argue the ownership of Buffalo quit after letting TD run the team into the ground for the past 5 years. In this case, it'd be okay for Spikes, McGahee, Moulds, and everyone else to retire, too, by your logic, right?

Those dudes aren't near as great as Sanders. They're good, but really. I didn't say retire, you said 'quit' in your orginal post, and that's what we're talking about – why he quit/retired. As mentioned, he retired after the regular season - after many of them actually. He didn’t pull a Ricky Williams and show up at camp, then ubruptly quit, and throw offensive plans into turmoil for the year.

You're putting McGahee on par with Sanders now? And Spikes and Moulds? Your scenario for what the Bills management has done in their situations is apples and oranges compared to Barry's situation.

First off, WM was hurt and the Bills picked him anyway and let hm chill for a year while he rahabbed, to their credit. And how does he repay them? By bragging he's the baddest and going out and playing average. When he can do it for as long as Barry did and as good as Barry did it, then he can talk.

Spikes was injured as well, and unless I've been in a coma, I haven’t heard how the Bills are doing him wrong in any regard.

As far as Moulds, arguably he may be closest to Sanders' situation in that he is a vet who's grown frustrated: but I think it's more he's frustrated at not getting the ball more. I never heard Barry say they weren't giving him the ball enough.

And to say that anyone of these guys wasn’t surrounded with better talent to win than Barry had is just wrong. Which puts it back on them – they have no excuse to say everyone else around them sucks, so I want out. But then, funny you bring up Spikes - he came here because of exactly the Sanders-type problem. He wanted to win but felt Cinnci couldn’t. Ironic, huh. At least he had that option.

And that points out the biggest difference - Spikes, as does Moulds, and WM can go play anywhere they wanted. Detroit never allowed Barry to go anywhere else. Barry retired when the team gave him no option. He wanted to still play. They wouldn't let him.

Can you imagine a team ownership so spiteful that it would keep one of the greatest backs in history off the field rather than see him play for anyone else? If that doesn't describe a player screwed over by ownership, I don't know what does.

[Iehoshua]

So just because he's a great player he's allowed to do whatever he wants? In this case, you must think T.O. is perfectly justified in all his actions.

T.O., in hence, did the same thing, just in a more obnoxious manner. Does that make it right, or does he have to retire first?

[DaBills]

"How is it teams like Indy can afford stars like Feeney, Manning, James, Harrison, and we can't even afford to pay one of the best players on our team?'


Simple. They have great management.

;-p

Polian knew he had to get those guys signed early. They can spot talent and knew it would be good down the road. But I think eventually these dudes want their big payday and will get it somewhere.

I also see Denver being able to do the same thing, always be under the cap and always be competitive.

[DaBills]

So just because he's a great player he's allowed to do whatever he wants? In this case, you must think T.O. is perfectly justified in all his actions.

Totally not the same thing. You act like Sanders screwed the mascott on the 50-yard at halftime and supplied Irvin with his coke and Romanowski his 'roids. But because he was great I would think that's ok?

So now we went from rating WM on par with him to saying he was a team cancer like TO? Sanders wasn't calling out his QB and team his second year there. Not to mention, TO had just been to a freakin' Super Bowl the year before! They were poised to repeat. All he had to do was stfu. He had talent. Everyone around him had talent. That team had everything going it's way heading into last season. Everything.

Barry played his ass off every game, did his part and more for 10 years, and how did the team respond when he wanted a trade? Please answer that, because we know they did not put him in a position to win on that team, no matter how much complaining you think he did.

So far all the dudes you mentioned have done what you claim Barry did, but it's ok for them to?

[Devin]

A first or a second for one of the best corners in the NFL? Don't forget you then have to draft a CB and hope that he turns out good.

Letting Nate go would be a Big Mistake. Just like leting Pat Williams go.

How is it teams like Indy can afford stars like Feeney, Manning, James, Harrison, and we can't even afford to pay one of the best players on our team?

Ralph Wilson will not pay Nate Clements a contract worth what he wants. Plain and Simple.

I dont think he deserves it anyway. If he played like this in a contract year id hate to see how he plays when he gets his deal.

[Iehoshua]

Totally not the same thing. You act like Sanders screwed the mascott on the 50-yard at halftime and supplied Irvin with his coke and Romanowski his 'roids. But because he was great I would think that's ok?

So now we went from rating WM on par with him to saying he was a team cancer like TO? Sanders wasn't calling out his QB and team his second year there. Not to mention, TO had just been to a freakin' Super Bowl the year before! They were poised to repeat. All he had to do was stfu. He had talent. Everyone around him had talent. That team had everything going it's way heading into last season. Everything.

Barry played his ass off every game, did his part and more for 10 years, and how did the team respond when he wanted a trade? Please answer that, because we know they did not put him in a position to win on that team, no matter how much complaining you think he did.

So far all the dudes you mentioned have done what you claim Barry did, but it's ok for them to?

You have managed to twist and turn everything around to your own devices.

Nowhere did I post WM is on par with Barry, you made that up. I simply said that if a player is under contract, the team has every right to deny a trade request. Would YOU trade Barry Sanders?? Just because he is so great that means he has the right to hang it all up? Sure it does! It also means he mailed it in, he threw in the towel. Period.

[DaBills]

You have managed to twist and turn everything around to your own devices.

Actually, I didn't twist anything, you did pretty good on your own. You're the one that keeps skewing the discussion each time you post. I keep answering your points, but you ignore most of mine, and raise different ones each time, then say I'm the one turning things around.



"Nowhere did I post WM is on par with Barry, you made that up."

As soon as you mentioned those three in the same discussion equating their situations with Sanders, you automatically put them on par with his situation. Then you brought TO into the discussion after that.



"In this case, it'd be okay for Spikes, McGahee, Moulds, and everyone else to retire, too, by your logic, right?"

My logic? It's yours. My logic woudn't say that because there's a huge difference between a player of Sanders calibur staying for 10 years vs. Spikes bailing after five in Cinnci or TO leaving the Eagles after two. But hey, maybe it's in their blood to leave.

Then, in another post you question whether Sanders has the heart of a champion? I'll question it in Spikes first after he bailed Cinnci in 1/2 the time Barry spent in Detroit. All the knocks so far you're throwing at Sanders in one way or another could be applied to the four guys you brought up: WM, Moulds, Spikes and TO. It's making my point.



"I simply said that if a player is under contract, the team has every right to deny a trade request. "

No you didn't, not until just now. Had you said that initially, my answer would have been different. You said "Barry Sanders flat out quit on his team."



"Would YOU trade Barry Sanders??"

Yes I would, but it depends. I WOULD trade him out of the division because the dude obviously doesn't want to be there. You don't need malcontents on a team. But I'd have made sure I got excellent value in return, and/or my bonus back.

And Detroit wasn't looking for a trade, they wanted a lot of the deal/bonus he signed the year prior, given back, which he ultimately ended up having to do in arbitration. But I would maintain that he signed that deal initially thinking Detroit would actually be serious about building the team around him in the years ahead. So who really whelched first on their end of the deal is the question.



"Just because he is so great that means he has the right to hang it all up? Sure it does! It also means he mailed it in, he threw in the towel. Period.[/quote]

Ask the dudes who couldn't tackle him if he mailed it in towards the end. My opinion is not based on just his talent. It's not even based on what a given player wants. In Sanders' case, you need to factor in ALL those things and more: a great talent who played for 10 years, on a team that did practically nothing to support him, and management that wouldn't allow him to play elsewhere.


:afro:

Word.

[AndreReed83]

The ownership was basically using Barry as the main event in a freak show. It's not very good and it's going to look ugly everywhere else, but we do have one main attraction. They didn't even try to improve that team. As long as they had Barry, they knew people would go to see the Lions. So, does he keep playing and burn himself out, emotionally and physically? Or does he end it all now and get out of being merely a tool for money?

[Iehoshua]

Actually, I didn't twist anything, you did pretty good on your own. You're the one that keeps skewing the discussion each time you post. I keep answering your points, but you ignore most of mine, and raise different ones each time, then say I'm the one turning things around.



"Nowhere did I post WM is on par with Barry, you made that up."

As soon as you mentioned those three in the same discussion equating their situations with Sanders, you automatically put them on par with his situation. Then you brought TO into the discussion after that.



"In this case, it'd be okay for Spikes, McGahee, Moulds, and everyone else to retire, too, by your logic, right?"

My logic? It's yours. My logic woudn't say that because there's a huge difference between a player of Sanders calibur staying for 10 years vs. Spikes bailing after five in Cinnci or TO leaving the Eagles after two. But hey, maybe it's in their blood to leave.

Then, in another post you question whether Sanders has the heart of a champion? I'll question it in Spikes first after he bailed Cinnci in 1/2 the time Barry spent in Detroit. All the knocks so far you're throwing at Sanders in one way or another could be applied to the four guys you brought up: WM, Moulds, Spikes and TO. It's making my point.



"I simply said that if a player is under contract, the team has every right to deny a trade request. "

No you didn't, not until just now. Had you said that initially, my answer would have been different. You said "Barry Sanders flat out quit on his team."



"Would YOU trade Barry Sanders??"

Yes I would, but it depends. I WOULD trade him out of the division because the dude obviously doesn't want to be there. You don't need malcontents on a team. But I'd have made sure I got excellent value in return, and/or my bonus back.

And Detroit wasn't looking for a trade, they wanted a lot of the deal/bonus he signed the year prior, given back, which he ultimately ended up having to do in arbitration. But I would maintain that he signed that deal initially thinking Detroit would actually be serious about building the team around him in the years ahead. So who really whelched first on their end of the deal is the question.



"Just because he is so great that means he has the right to hang it all up? Sure it does! It also means he mailed it in, he threw in the towel. Period."

Ask the dudes who couldn't tackle him if he mailed it in towards the end. My opinion is not based on just his talent. It's not even based on what a given player wants. In Sanders' case, you need to factor in ALL those things and more: a great talent who played for 10 years, on a team that did practically nothing to support him, and management that wouldn't allow him to play elsewhere.


:afro:

Word.You continue to put extra words in my posts. There was never a mention of Barry mailing it while he was playing. His actions of retiring was mailing it in. When he was on the field, no one can debate what he did, he was phenominal.

You have a consistent theme in all your posts, the theme Barry had himself; it was all about Barry. It was never about the Lions, it always had to be Barry, then the Lions came in 2nd. That, I believe, is what the problem was. Barry thought he was bigger than the team. Not too many people are going to argue the fact that Barry wasn't a team player.

Spikes was a FREE AGENT, btw, not comparable to Sanders' situation. One can also make the argument he shouldn't have given up on the Bengals, also. At least Takeo didn't retire.

The comparison to Bills players was NOT an automatic statement of equality of talent, rather of situation. Like the Lions, the Bills have lately been perennial losers. Does this give every player who thinks the Bills aren't committed enough to winning(another very valid argument) the right to simply hang it up in protest and spite?

[FirstDownBills]

You continue to put extra words in my posts. There was never a mention of Barry mailing it while he was playing. His actions of retiring was mailing it in. When he was on the field, no one can debate what he did, he was phenominal.

You have a consistent theme in all your posts, the theme Barry had himself; it was all about Barry. It was never about the Lions, it always had to be Barry, then the Lions came in 2nd. That, I believe, is what the problem was. Barry thought he was bigger than the team. Not too many people are going to argue the fact that Barry wasn't a team player.

Spikes was a FREE AGENT, btw, not comparable to Sanders' situation. One can also make the argument he shouldn't have given up on the Bengals, also. At least Takeo didn't retire.

The comparison to Bills players was NOT an automatic statement of equality of talent, rather of situation. Like the Lions, the Bills have lately been perennial losers. Does this give every player who thinks the Bills aren't committed enough to winning(another very valid argument) the right to simply hang it up in protest and spite?

Heh, what good would it have done him if he had stayed? Have the Lions made any progress yet? No, they have Millen as a GM and Gerald Ford as an owner. Both know nothing about football or about winning.

[camelcowboy]

If tagging and trading is so easy, why aren't there 20-25 of these instances every off-season ? Why didn't Alexander and E. James not even draw a 2nd round pick last spring for their services, after they were tagged ?

Could it be the large contract demands ? How is Nate any different ?

apples and oranges, Running backs are easyier to find then, and there shelf life is less. Both edge,and Alexander are going to want to be paid. No one wants to invest all that money in a back who could ware out, in a couple of years. I can think of numerous teams that would sign Nate, and trade for him. Bengals, Redskins, Miami, NE, New Orleans, many teams would love a shot to aquire Nate. Tag him, trade him only for a first round pick. Worst comes to worst Nate Plays the year under the tag. Which would still be cheaper.

[Mahdi]

Fist off, I definitely think some team will give up a first rounder for NC. If Doug Jolley was traded for a first round pick NC should be traded for 3 first rounders using that logic.


Second, we dont need NC we need a pass rush, like others have already pointed out a strong pass rush can make most CBs in the league successful. That being said, let NC go and upgrade the O-line and D-line instead.

Lastly, if NC is worth the money he is commanding he should be able to cover any receiver in the game for a little longer than the rest of the corners in the league who he has procaimed he is better than.

So lets review for all of us that have forgotten.

These are the receivers that made NC look silly this year:

Dante Stallworth, Justin McCareins, Randy Moss (scored a TD on Nate while injured)

Deion Branch( I'm pretty sure it was nate covering on those big pass plays to him, correct me if im wrong)

Both Keenan McCardell and Eric Parker scored their TDs on NC.

Chris Chambers 15-238 all on NC, except for the TD.

Rod Smith had a big day a lot of it on NC.

Chad Johnson took nate to school, period.

Now I'm sure not all of this is NC fault but a lot of it is, which tells me he is not the best CB in the league, and even if he was, its much better for a football team to have a big time D-line than a big time CB. A big time D-line stops the run and pressures the QB. A CB can only do one.

However I will admit this, if we keep nate and somehow manage to solidify the DT and DE positions, Nate will have a big year, because he is a playmaker, theres no doubt about that, but he is certainly not the best cover corner in the league, I still believe that that title belongs to Charles Woodson ( pre-injury). I've mentioned this before, you never hear Woodson's name called during a game because he simply shuts down his side of the field. I wouldn't mind seeing him in B-lo since he will probably command less than nate.

[BillsSabresB.C.T. Fan]

:dream: imagine this trade Clements for Strahan or Clements for Shockey it would never happen but it's a nice :dream: isn't it :question: :cloud9:

[X-Era]

There is a very good chance we could land Huff or Williams with that pick.

Umm I hope you mean the 8 pick.

Theres no way in HELL that Williams OR Huff drops to 23.

Id LOVE to be at 23 to grab a stud O or D lineman, as I feel there really wont be many guys at either spot worthy of the 8 pick, when we pick.

So, Clements traded for the 23rd, pick Williams at 8, and say Whitworth, Ngata, Wroten, McNeil, Wright, or even Justice at 23? Yeah, no Fug yeah, I love that move.

Then pick up what we didnt get with the 8th in round 2. Either DT or OT. I 3 of our top picks we fixed ALOT of our problems.

The only down side is if Williams or Huff turns out to be a bust and we lose Clements who at his worst is a pretty decent CB. I dont see either of our other 2 picks, OT or DT being that much worse than who starts today (Tim, Ron, Justin, or Gandy assuming Peters starts at the other T spot be it RT or LT).

[X-Era]

Add McGahee to that list as well.

Fine, but draft Deangelo Williams at 8 then. The guy is the next LT.

Bush may be the next Barry Sanders, but Williams is the next LT and that would be pretty nice if McGahee is gone.

[X-Era]

I still think we will regret it if we get rid of him.

Years of THomas Smith and Ken Irvin should remind us how important CB's are.

Clements smokes either of those clowns, even if he isnt a franchise CB.

You may very well be right. Why downgrade at such a critical spot. Talk simple stats to Clements and his agent about his year and his price should plummet.

TD would go for some ridiculous contract that some backup on another team would get.

Hopefully, Marv steps up and offers him top 15 CB pay, not top 5. Clements ought to take it.

[dolphinssuck]

Let him go and free up cap space or get a player in his place. Could work out for us just as much as keeping him.

[ublinkwescore]

Maybe we can get Shockey and a 4th for him?

[X-Era]

Maybe we can get Shockey and a 4th for him?

Hmmmm, top 3 TE in the league plus a draft pick.

Yeah, id take it.

[Devin]

Fist off, I definitely think some team will give up a first rounder for NC. If Doug Jolley was traded for a first round pick NC should be traded for 3 first rounders using that logic.


Spot on dude. I had'nt thought of that trade but thats a great point.



Second, we dont need NC we need a pass rush, like others have already pointed out a strong pass rush can make most CBs in the league successful. That being said, let NC go and upgrade the O-line and D-line instead.


2 for 2.



Lastly, if NC is worth the money he is commanding he should be able to cover any receiver in the game for a little longer than the rest of the corners in the league who he has procaimed he is better than.


Heating up.



So lets review for all of us that have forgotten.

These are the receivers that made NC look silly this year:

Dante Stallworth, Justin McCareins, Randy Moss (scored a TD on Nate while injured)

Deion Branch( I'm pretty sure it was nate covering on those big pass plays to him, correct me if im wrong)

Both Keenan McCardell and Eric Parker scored their TDs on NC.

Chris Chambers 15-238 all on NC, except for the TD.

Rod Smith had a big day a lot of it on NC.

Chad Johnson took nate to school, period.


You just got yourself a :posrep:

Probably the best post in this thread.

[vicmantak]

CB's are a dime a dozen IF you have a good pass rush. Hell New England went to and WON The damn superbowl with 4 BACKUPS! BACKUPS folks! Not one guy was a starter.

NO CB is worth the jack they are getting paid...NO CB! Use that money to pay TWO DLinemen and upgrade your pass rush and see how good McGee and clements replacement plays.
I would say that no player is worth that kind of money. Just look what happened to the Bengals recently against the Steelers.
Doesn't Carson Palmer got a $118 million for 6 years contract recently?

On the other hand, Patriots are arguably one parameter to start discussions but if you analyze their key-decisions background, they unavoidably extended Richard Seymour to a $27 million contract for 5 years during this season and let Ty Law taste the free agency during the off-season... but don't forget that they also tried to re-sign him later.

In other words, I agree that Nate Clements deserves top money but you cannot underestimate the importance of a team's #1 CB anywhere.

The Franchise Tag is a team's weapon and Bills should wisely use it.

[Devin]

The patriots beat us last season with a WR playing CB.

We will be fine without NC.

[vicmantak]

Well said... playing against us...

[Devin]

Im just saying it can be done.

[ublinkwescore]

Hmmmm, top 3 TE in the league plus a draft pick.

Yeah, id take it.

I think that would be a fair trade - CBs are more valuable than TEs.

[vicmantak]

Devin,

I catched what you are trying to say but you can't let go the top CB and one of the "big" names on this FA so easily.
Even if you're done on Clements, he is still considered one of the best CBs and Bills organization have all the tools to get the best of him...

[ublinkwescore]

We gotta think what is fiscally best for this team, in addition to what areas are in desperate need of Talent - I honestly think that we'll be Ok moving McGee to our #1 CB, and worrying about getting a pass rush and an O line.