I find this place to be amazing.

[Patrick76777]

I find this place to be amazing.

On one page of threads I see guys saying that Willis will never be great, Holcomb is terrible, Lindell can’t kick long and that we have so many needs. And at the same time, Losman keeps getting passes! This guy can do no wrong.

Schoop on the radio the other day wanted to cut Moulds and Adams and fire Mularkey because they gave Losman trouble.

It’s down right amazing!

A QB taken in the late first round and we want to cut half the team, fire the coaches and the GM who drafted him and spend 3 seasons with him at the helm, just to see if he can be good.

We’re sacrificing the entire team at the alter of bad QB’s!

Did New England have to clean house in order for Tom Brady to develop into a winning QB? The year Brady took over, New England was supposed to be terrible and started 0-2. Brady was lights out from game one! Our golden boy has had 4 good passes in 8 games and people just want to keep trotting him out there.

In fact, I’m going to get killed for writing this. But it’s a win now league. You can’t afford to let a QB take 2 years to learn how to play. Look at Detroit. The good teams go out and find someone. See Denver and Jake Plummer. If we pulled a Denver and got Plummer out of Arizona people here would have been jumping off buildings. But now Denver is the second seed in the AFC playoffs. Fine keep him around, but we need an insurance policy. And if we have to cash that policy in during training camp, so be it.

I just don’t get the double standard. Willis has a bad 2nd half in his first full year as a starter and he’s A. Smith but Losman looks terrible in 8 games and it’s just a matter of time before he develops into Payton Manning.

[OpIv37]

Re: I find this place to be amazing.

First, Willis has 1 injured year, 2 full years and 26 starts- JP has 1 injured year, 1 full year, and 8 starts at a more difficult position, so it's apples to oranges. Plus JP doesn't run his mouth.

Sam Adams can't get along with Mularkey and it has effects on the field. He's our best DT, but if he doesn't learn to play in the system he becomes a liability. I wouldn't mind cutting him, but only if a suitable replacement can be found.

What exactly did Moulds do over the past three seasons to make him so great? Yes, he's had to deal with struggling QB's but he hasn't been on top of his game for years. His numbers don't justify his salary and this team has too many needs to pay $9 million against the cap for 800 yards and 4 touchdowns. Other teams pay that much for players, but they're players with much better stats that don't cause sideline problems.

Yes, it's a win now league, but QB's take time to learn the game- look at Palmer and both Mannings. You can't just pull a quality QB out of your ass. Sometimes they're available in FA but usually they're not, so you have to suck it up.

And, don't forget that we were supposed to win in 05 despite JP- we won in 04 despite poor play by Bledsoe due to ST and D. That all went to hell when the D went to hell.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Re: I find this place to be amazing.

Are you suggesting Losman to be cut after starting less than a full season?

Sure Tom Brady didn't come in lights out from the start either, but yes he showed a lot of promise. But how many Tom Brady and Big Ben are there? If you're supposed to cut a QB after 8 games of not-so-glorious performance and start over with another guy, the league would go through quarterbacks season after season like FBH with used condoms.

Give JP a chance. If he stinks it up next season I wouldn't oppose to considering someone else.

[John Doe]

Re: I find this place to be amazing.

But it’s a win now league. You can’t afford to let a QB take 2 years to learn how to play.

Didn't Carson Palmer take 2 years?

[Patrick76777]

Re: I find this place to be amazing.

Guys, hold up!

1. I never said cut Losman
2. I didn’t make an argument for keeping any player or coach over another.

I simply commented on the double standard of play evaluation.

[OpIv37]

Re: I find this place to be amazing.

Pat, let me ask you this- what would you do about Buffalo's qb situation if you were Marv Levy? Keep in mind that, off the top of my head, the following teams have QB issues, so anything you do would be in competition with these teams:

Baltimore
NY Jets
Miami
New Orleans
Tampa Bay
Detriot
Washington (or they will soon- Brunell's old)
Chicago (arguably)
Cardinals

and arguably several others. So where to you expect to find your "win now" QB?

What I'm trying to say is that there is a good reason for your perceived double standard. Other positions are easier to fill, and if you can't fill them there are ways to compensate with systems, play design, play calling etc. QB is a key position and right now, there just aren't enough good ones.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Re: I find this place to be amazing.

Tampa Bay is good. They're behind Simms.

[TacklingDummy]

Re: I find this place to be amazing.

. So where to you expect to find your "win now" QB?

.

Not this Draft but the next one.

Let JP have next year. The Bills go 1-15 or 2-14 and we get the #1 pick and use it on the best QB available.

[OpIv37]

Re: I find this place to be amazing.

Tampa Bay is good. They're behind Simms.

well I'm sure that list could be debated with some additions and some subtractions. But any way you look at it, there's still at least 6-8 teams in need of a franchise QB, and there aren't enough NFL ready QB's available via FA or trade to fill all those slots (no drafted QB will be ready- Rothlisbergenheimenreinger is the exception and not the rule). If one or two do become available, the competition to get them will be stiff and most likely require a huge chunk of cap change or trading an entire draft to get them.

[TacklingDummy]

Re: I find this place to be amazing.

Didn't Carson Palmer take 2 years?

Yes thats a great example. Palmer has 2 good WRs a good RB and he gets the job done.

JP has 2 good WRs and a good RB but yet he blows. Even a journey backup QB (Holcomb) could put up decent numbers with the talent that was around him.

[OpIv37]

Re: I find this place to be amazing.

Yes thats a great example. Palmer has 2 good WRs a good RB and he gets the job done.
JP has 2 good WRs and a good RB but yet he blows. Even a journey backup QB (Holcomb) could put up decent numbers with the talent that was around him.

Willis is a good RB? How many games did he go without a TD or 100 yard game this season?

Moulds is a good receiver? 800 yards and 4 TD's? Don't forget he had 8 games of Holcomb throwing to him so you can't blame all of that low production on JP.

Sorry but the talent level that Palmer has is better than what JP has.

[Patrick76777]

Re: I find this place to be amazing.

Pat, let me ask you this- what would you do about Buffalo's qb situation if you were Marv Levy? Keep in mind that, off the top of my head, the following teams have QB issues, so anything you do would be in competition with these teams:

Baltimore
NY Jets
Miami
New Orleans
Tampa Bay
Detriot
Washington (or they will soon- Brunell's old)
Chicago (arguably)
Cardinals

and arguably several others. So where to you expect to find your "win now" QB?

What I'm trying to say is that there is a good reason for your perceived double standard. Other positions are easier to fill, and if you can't fill them there are ways to compensate with systems, play design, play calling etc. QB is a key position and right now, there just aren't enough good ones.

Don’t know! I’ve said before that I’d go out and try to find a guy that’s been a back up for a few years and bring him in. Maybe a Schaub or a Volek. Then I let him go head to head with JP. Best man wins. (and please don’t tell me about the availability of these guys, I’m speaking in generalities).

It’s Levy’s job to answer that question, not mine.


And I wouldn’t dream of cutting JP. But I think we should go into next year with someone who could surprise us if he got the job. Or if JP looked terrible after a couple games. But that’s a whole other issue,(and not the issue at hand so don’t bait me into it) how many bad games do we give the guy. Detroit gave Harrington way too long.


And one more thing. I don’t care who we are competing with. A good GM will make it happen!

[Patrick76777]

Re: I find this place to be amazing.

Willis is a good RB? How many games did he go without a TD or 100 yard game this season?
Moulds is a good receiver? 800 yards and 4 TD's? Don't forget he had 8 games of Holcomb throwing to him so you can't blame all of that low production on JP.
Sorry but the talent level that Palmer has is better than what JP has.

Yeah, too bad it went something like this

Holcomb’s 8 games 50 for 700 and 4TD’s
JP’s 8 games 10 for 100 and 0 TD’s


Made those numbers up, tongue in cheek. Can’t use those against me.

[Mr. Cynical]

Re: I find this place to be amazing.

Willis is a good RB? How many games did he go without a TD or 100 yard game this season?

Moulds is a good receiver? 800 yards and 4 TD's? Don't forget he had 8 games of Holcomb throwing to him so you can't blame all of that low production on JP.

Sorry but the talent level that Palmer has is better than what JP has.

Dear OpIv37,

Please stop feeding the troll. He's already too fat.

Thank you,

Zoo Management

[OpIv37]

Re: I find this place to be amazing.

Don’t know! I’ve said before that I’d go out and try to find a guy that’s been a back up for a few years and bring him in. Maybe a Schaub or a Volek. Then I let him go head to head with JP. Best man wins. (and please don’t tell me about the availability of these guys, I’m speaking in generalities).
It’s Levy’s job to answer that question, not mine.
And I wouldn’t dream of cutting JP. But I think we should go into next year with someone who could surprise us if he got the job. Or if JP looked terrible after a couple games. But that’s a whole other issue,(and not the issue at hand so don’t bait me into it) how many bad games do we give the guy. Detroit gave Harrington way too long.
And one more thing. I don’t care who we are competing with. A good GM will make it happen!

I wouldn't be opposed to a camp competition and wish we had that this year. My only objection is that the longer JP sits on the bench, the less we know about whether or not he will ever be our guy. But the goal is to win and if someone else gives us a better chance so be it.

As far as a good GM making it happen, I don't know if I agree with that. Making it happen at the expense of salary cap jail or trading away an entire draft isn't usually worth it. Or to put it another way, a good GM will balance the need to get a player with the price they have to pay for that player. We don't want to end up like the Titans and have to cut six starters to get under the cap.