Retreads vs. Young blood - my look at coaches

[Tatonka]

i know that some of you are dead set on getting a coach that has NFL experience.. i understand it to a degree, because many of you think that means they will be more suited to come in and turn everything around.. get on the winning path.. but what i dont understand is that all the coaches that are available are unemployed for a reason. that reason is that they were NOT winning.. they lost and got canned.. essentially any of the retreads that are available to us have experience in getting fired because they didnt do a good job.. not experience being consistent winners.. it is not like belicheck is out there and ready to come to buffalo.. or shannahan or the like..
but there are alot of coordinators and college guys that work out.. TD just cant ick one to save his life.. obviously williams and mularkey didnt work out.. but think about all the other ones that have in recent history...


1. jacksonville - jack del rio
2. cincy - marvin lewis
3. carolina - john fox
4. chicago - lovie smith
(all of those guys got their teams to the playoffs this year)
4. cleveland - romeo crenell (work in prgress but looking better after 1 year)
5. charlie weiss (on a different level, but i dont think anyone would argue he could do it in the nfl)
6. miami - nick saban

now in the time that those guys were hired and have started turning around their programs (or have already).. look at these examples..


1. arizona - went after a retred and are still picking early in the draft.
2. san diego - many people calling for marty's head after still not making the playoffss in 4 years.
3. oakland - norv has already been fired for the 2nd time now (or is it third?)
4. baltimore - billick is on thin ice after one superbowl, nothing in the other six years
5. texans - dom capers is already history
6. dallas - are the cowboys really better off now? their record is regressing and they dont know how long their coach will be around now...
7. detriot - their retread didnt make it through the season.
now i am not advocating taking any coordinator out there.. i am all for taking a guy who has proven to be good at what he does over an extended period of time though.


guys i would rule out of contention are:


1. sean payton - the guy had his job stripped from him for not scoring as an OC in New York.. so he then dropped down to a qb coach.. he got one good season out of quincy carter.. and ok season out of vinny, and 1 good half out of drew (all though that was drews MO before getting to dallas, so i dont know that payton even did anything there).. the guy just has shown me nothing as to why he should be a head coach.. because he worked for parcells?? that by itself is a crappy reason.

2. Ron Rivera - this is a guy that i am on the fence about, but i would lean to passing on.. he has been a DC for 2 years.. one year was OK.. this year was great.. but take a look at the competition that the bears defense played this season.. EB had a great post on the offensive rankings of the offenses they played.. it is pathetic really.

now he was a good LB coach prior to that, and he may very well end up being a good head coach.. but i am just saying that i would like to see another year out of him.. he looks alot like jerry gray to me right now.. 1 ok season, 1 great season against lower competition, and then next year he could nose dive like gray did.

3. Haslett - the guy had one ok season (his first) with NO in which he went 9-7 i think.. won a single playoff game and that was it.. the rest were all a disappointment.. he lost his players.. and after initially endearing the fans with a playoff win.. he lost them too.. he defenses were never that good, especially after the first year, but he is a defensive coach.. what does that say? he also has a history of blowing draft picks.. i am just not interested.

in the end.. i guess my point is.. i would be happy with a coordinator coming in.. actually more so than a former HC.

guys i would actually be interested in..

1. al saunders - My A#1 choice...look at the guys resume.. his offenses have dominated for 4 straight years.. almost to a ridiculous level.. and look at the wrs he has worked with while he was in KC.. kennison and morton?? are you kidding me.. think what he could do here.. also.. look at KCs OLine..

2. Jim Johnson - Philly's defense has been strong from the time they started their run about 5 years ago.. he has learned under one of the better coaches in the league in Reid.

3. Scott Linehan - the vikings offense was always strong.. and then look what happened when he left (yes, moss has something to do with that downfall as well, but moss was out the year before and burleson filled in well).. and also look what he did with the fish.. by seasons end after they learned the system, he took an average to below qb and made that offense look very good.

4. Tom Moore - for 8 years now he has run one of the best offenses in the league.. some would question he credibility because manning is running the show.. but who taught manning how to do it? some are concerned about his age.. levy was 61 when he took over the bills when took over the bills.. that worked out ok.. i really dont care that he is older.

5. monty kiffen - strong D coordinator who has been in the tampa system for a while.. strict guy that i think would do well as a head coach. he is a older, but again.. i dont really care if he wins.


my 2 cents.

[Tatonka]

here is the link to EBs good post on the bears D.

the truth about the bears D (http://www.billszone.com/fanzone/showthread.php?t=89468&highlight=bears+defense)

[DaBills]

I'm only leaning towards a vet coach because I don't know that third time will be a charm for us to get another first-timer. And Iagree with the point that for every Marvin Lewis, you'll get a Mularkey. It's a crap-shoot.

Thing is though, all these coaches get recycled to another team no matter how average they are. Edwards is 39-41 and is going to a new team. Haslett is being considered. Even Tice, and his record so far is on track to be like Edwards.

5) Kiffen I don't see leaving. I think he has the tools in place for his D and Gruden likes him.

4) Moore, hmmm. I see what he's done with Peyton. So it's REAL hard to go against him. But, it's peyton he has out there, not JP. Is JP at the same place Manning was early in his career? I'd say no because JP has far less PT at this point.

3) Haslett - ehhh. Not sold on him. He had a couple mobile QB's in Blake and Brooks, but it's like he didn't know what to do with them. Like I said in another thread, I have to give him a pass though for this year and all the distractions the Saints went through.

The rest on the list, don't know a lot about except for Sean Payton getting stripped of his duties. Is that him being ineffective or a head coach that needs to run everything. Not sure there.

[Tatonka]

1. i read somewhere that kiffen was interested in being a HC.. but i could be wrong.. i was just listing him as a guy i would be interested in.

2. moore can be credited with helping make manning what he is today.. so why not see what he can do with jp.. i mean if your asking if jp is manning right now.. of coarse not.. but we dont know what he can be.. especially since last years staff botched that so bad.

3. haslett.. he is on my list of "not interested" ..


if we HAD to get a vet coach, i would be ok with sherman or haslett.. but i would rather go with a new guy that doesnt have a losing history..

i would pick sherman over haslett though.. he has a great record.. i just dont know how much to attribute that to farve.. sherman didnt teach farve.. farve was already a stud when he got there.. not like moore and manning.. but sherman still has a winning record and that is hard enough to do.. there is just something about him that makes me nervous.. alot of greenbay fans hate him.. they hated his playcalling or something.. but i cant say that i followed them super close..

his resume looks pretty strong though.

http://www.packers.com/team/coaches/sherman_mike/

[bernielivsey_1]

my 2 cents. :drool2: Thats a whole dollar :funny:

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

Jim Johnson and Tom Moore are like 65 years old, that is just what this team needs.

[Tatonka]

i see ghost.. so winning is not the main thing.. making sure we meet some age requirements is much more important..

if the guy can win games.. i really dont care how old he is.. but apparently some people have other priorities.

[ublinkwescore]

Jim Johnson and Tom Moore are like 65 years old, that is just what this team needs.

Some Youth huh?

[Mr. Cynical]

Good post T.

I won't go point by point but I agree with your thoughts. All I would add is that no matter what you hire - experience or not - it is total crap shoot with neither way having the advantage.

I do think Haslett is better than alot of people are saying however. He only had one losing season (7-9) and made the playoffs once in his 6 years there. Note - this year is a total throw away. Blake and Brooks are crappy QBs and I don't know how much input he had in bringing them in. Anyway - I certainly don't "love" the idea of Haz coming here but you never know. Belichick stunk it up in Cleveland and we know what he's done in Patsyville.

As for the "unproven" bunch, I don't really know how you (not you specifically) can judge. HC is totally different than any other coaching position. How many times has a great DC been total s**t as an HC? Gregg Man Boobs Williams comes to mind.

IMO, it is ALOT harder to rate a potential HC than any other position on the team. There just isn't any apples to apples data that you have on a player.

[TheGhostofJimKelly]

i see ghost.. so winning is not the main thing.. making sure we meet some age requirements is much more important..
if the guy can win games.. i really dont care how old he is.. but apparently some people have other priorities.


Yep, that is exactly what I said.