Rooney Rule

[Voltron]

I know that we have a nice mix of ethnicity here and would like to know what people of all races think about the Rooney Rule.

Personally I think they should just call it the Token rule. It seems to me that any minority coach would feel like it was nothing more than a slap in the face to be the "token" minority candidate to be interviewed.

:feedback:

[OpIv37]

I think the hope on the part of the minorities being interviewed and the NFL is that teams will interview the minority candidate and realize they are the best man for the job. But I agree with Voltron about the token thing. And some of that isn't even race-related. These NFL guys have their friends in the business that they've work with for years, and the good ole' boy network is more powerful than any other force in finding coaches. The owners and GM's are going to hire the people they're familiar with regardless of who the NFL makes them interview.

I agree with the goal of having more black coaches in a predominantly black league. But the Rooney Rule isn't helping at all. If a minority is the most qualified for the job, he's gonna get the job anyway (examples: Crennel in Cleveland last year, Herm Edwards this year).

[Dr. Lecter]

I would not say 'any' minority is a token interview.

The only part I like is that it does give minorities experience in being interviewed, even if it is only to follow the rule. That allows the individual to be more prepared when a real interview is offerred.

[Novacane]

I think it's a good rule . A lot of the interviews (like the BIlls) are just "token black guy" interviews to meet the requirements of the rule. However, a guy has to get a chance to impress. He may be considered just a token interview comming into it but then really impress in his interview and become a serious canidate.

[dannyek71]

I think its degrading to blacks. Imagine being a black coach and pretty much knowing the only reason you are at an interview (which in most likelyhoold you have no chance of getting) is because of your race. Wouldnt this make you feel bad?


If the league was primarily comprised of black coaches, and a rule were put into place to force teams to interview whites, then this would obviously be considered racism. So when the roles are reversed, how is it different?

[MikeInRoch]

It's a dumb rule. Teams should be free to interview/hire anyone they want.

[Earthquake Enyart]

Even if you are the "token" interviewee, you need to take it positively. Interviews are good experience, and even if you don't get the job, you can hopefully get some good feedback on what you need to improve so you can get a HC job in the future.

I think it's a good thing to force the "good old boy" white male network to at least look around a little bit. I wish someone would force the NCAA to so the same thing. College football is a travesty with regards to minority hiring.

[OpIv37]

I think it's a good rule . A lot of the interviews (like the BIlls) are just "token black guy" interviews to meet the requirements of the rule. However, a guy has to get a chance to impress. He may be considered just a token interview comming into it but then really impress in his interview and become a serious canidate.

That's what I was saying- it's the intent of the rule and the reason why the minorities go on the interviews despite the "token" factor. The problem is that I have to wonder if it ever really works. The interview would have to be absolutely incredible for the minority candidate to be taken over someone that the owner/GM personally knows.

I don't think anyone could say/do anything in an interview that would have made TD hire them over Mularkey.

[MikeInRoch]

I agree with the goal of having more black coaches in a predominantly black league.

I am very curious why you think this is a good goal.

[Mr. Miyagi]

I think its degrading to blacks. Imagine being a black coach and pretty much knowing the only reason you are at an interview (which in most likelyhoold you have no chance of getting) is because of your race. Wouldnt this make you feel bad?


If the league was primarily comprised of black coaches, and a rule were put into place to force teams to interview whites, then this would obviously be considered racism. So when the roles are reversed, how is it different?
I agree. Isn't there a black owner in the league? Maybe next time he should interview all black coaches and make a mockery out of the Stupid Rooney Rule.

[Mr. Miyagi]

One thing I want to say about being a minority, and minorities in general including blacks, women, asians, gays, latinos, disabled, whatever.

We don't want to be treated special, with any special rules that force people to include us. We just want to be treated as equals, no more, no less.

That's why I think things like the Rooney Rule only accentuate the difference between people, instead of blurring the line and truly meshing us all together.

[Voltron]

One thing I want to say about being a minority, and minorities in general including blacks, women, asians, gays, latinos, disabled, whatever.

We don't want to be treated special, with any special rules that force people to include us. We just want to be treated as equals, no more, no less.

That's why I think things like the Rooney Rule only accentuate the difference between people, instead of blurring the line and truly meshing us all together.

:bf1:

That is what really kills me. All the rules and regulations forcing diversity on people do nothing but drive them apart further. If someone is a racist bigot, making a law that says you have to interview them is not going to change the fact that they are still a racist bigot. It just gives them a chance to get even more pissed about it.

It also doesn't change the fact that people who are racist bigots are scumbags! :mad:

[TacklingDummy]

What I hate the most is when a person of color doesn't get a job or get's in trouble they say "It's cause im black".

[OpIv37]

I am very curious why you think this is a good goal.

because without black coaches, the NFL is just a small staff of old white guys telling a large group of large black guys what to do. We tried that once- it was called "the South prior to 1863" and it didn't work out too well.

[MikeInRoch]

because without black coaches, the NFL is just a small staff of old white guys telling a large group of large black guys what to do. We tried that once- it was called "the South prior to 1863" and it didn't work out too well.

Oh please. Yeah, NFL players are slaves. That's completely rediculous.

[OpIv37]

Oh please. Yeah, NFL players are slaves. That's completely rediculous.

ok, someone read a little too much into my sarcasm. Look, if black people are good enough to play in the NFL and attract fans and be part of the NFL's marketing, why aren't they good enough to be coaches as well? Most coaches, regardless of race, are guys who started playing the game at a young age and have been around it their whole life. Look at the number of black guys in the league who obviously know the game, yet somehow that system has only produced a handful of black coaches but a whole slew of white ones? Any company in the US that had 1000 black employees and 4 black managers/executives would end up in court.

[MikeInRoch]

ok, someone read a little too much into my sarcasm. Look, if black people are good enough to play in the NFL and attract fans and be part of the NFL's marketing, why aren't they good enough to be coaches as well? Most coaches, regardless of race, are guys who started playing the game at a young age and have been around it their whole life. Look at the number of black guys in the league who obviously know the game, yet somehow that system has only produced a handful of black coaches but a whole slew of white ones? Any company in the US that had 1000 black employees and 4 black managers/executives would end up in court.

One of the assumptions that you are making is that playing in the NFL requires the same skill set as being a head coach in the NFL. That may not necessarily be the case.

[Meathead]

they had to start somewhere and this was a good first step

the white ceiling in the nfl was so obvious it was painful so just getting minorities interviews was a big step

[Mr. Miyagi]

One of the assumptions that you are making is that playing in the NFL requires the same skill set as being a head coach in the NFL. That may not necessarily be the case.
The same thing that makes all these white ex-players coaches should work the same for other races.

Honestly, I'm positive that there are much smarter black guys out there than Mike Tice, yet he got his HC gig and is getting interviews now.

[OpIv37]

One of the assumptions that you are making is that playing in the NFL requires the same skill set as being a head coach in the NFL. That may not necessarily be the case.

well that's true but a lot of coaches (I'd say the majority but I don't have exact stats) are ex-players. Not every ex-player is qualified to be a coach, but coaches usually start as players. It just seems like a statistical anomaly that so few black players end up as head coaches when compared to the number of white head coaches, based mainly on the fact that there are more black players in the league than white ones.

[OpIv37]

Honestly, I'm positive that there are much smarter black guys out there than Mike Tice, yet he got his HC gig and is getting interviews now.

The only thing that Jason Peters got on his Wonderlic test was drool, but he could drink a can of paint thinner and he'd still be smarter than Mike Tice.

[Mr. Miyagi]

The point is, there are dumb white guys and dumb black guys. The lack of black coaches in the league indirectly suggests that there must be more dumb black guys than dumb white guys, which is ridiculous.

[Earthquake Enyart]

The point is, there are dumb white guys and dumb black guys. The lack of black coaches in the league indirectly suggests that there must be more dumb black guys than dumb white guys, which is ridiculous.
No. There are more dumb black guys. But the few smart ones should get a chance.

[Mr. Miyagi]

Whoa.

[MikeInRoch]

I actually wasn't talking about intellegence. Skills such as people management, motivation, public speaking, etc. are all essential to being a head coach in the NFL. These are not generally skills that one learns by playing in the NFL.

[MikeInRoch]

The only thing that Jason Peters got on his Wonderlic test was drool, but he could drink a can of paint thinner and he'd still be smarter than Mike Tice.

:roflmao:

[Mr. Miyagi]

I actually wasn't talking about intellegence. Skills such as people management, motivation, public speaking, etc. are all essential to being a head coach in the NFL. These are not generally skills that one learns by playing in the NFL.
Then please explain Herm Edwards, Dick Jauron, Jack Del Rio, Gary Kubiak, Jeff Fisher, Mike Tice, Jim Haslett...for starters.

[MikeInRoch]

I didn't say that if you played in the NFL that you *wouldn't* have these skills. Geesh!

[Mr. Miyagi]

I didn't say that if you played in the NFL that you *wouldn't* have these skills. Geesh!
Then I'm still not sure what you're saying.

If ex-players black and white are just as compotent (or incompotent), and non-players black and white have the "people skills" for coaching jobs (or not), then what does it imply when there are far more white coaches than non-whites?

What's your point?

[chernobylwraiths]

No. There are more dumb black guys. But the few smart ones should get a chance.

Ouch. You need to clean your sheet.

[MikeInRoch]

Then I'm still not sure what you're saying.

If ex-players black and white are just as compotent (or incompotent), and non-players black and white have the "people skills" for coaching jobs (or not), then what does it imply when there are far more white coaches than non-whites?

What's your point?

My point is that it takes a different skill set to be an NFL coach than it does to be an NFL player. Therefore, there is a different demographic for qualified candidates - and the expectation that the demographic will be similar is not logical. These skill sets are not mutually exclusive. There may be a tendency for some of these skills to be present in a higher percentage of one race than another - for a variety of reasons (biological, cultural, economic background, etc.)

[Voltron]

No. There are more dumb black guys. But the few smart ones should get a chance.
I don't think this was ment to be racist. It is just in the numbers. There are more players of color in the league so the ratio will be higher. :idunno:

Simple math people

[Mr. Miyagi]

My point is that it takes a different skill set to be an NFL coach than it does to be an NFL player. Therefore, there is a different demographic for qualified candidates - and the expectation that the demographic will be similar is not logical. These skill sets are not mutually exclusive. There may be a tendency for some of these skills to be present in a higher percentage of one race than another - for a variety of reasons (biological, cultural, economic background, etc.)
It still feels like you're beating around the bush. Why not just come out with what you really mean? I don't think we can be any more offended than we already are LOL.